Bt2-tn loan bill chided in court

[webfact]

Bt2-tn loan bill chided in court
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- TESTIFYING on the government-backed Bt2-trillion borrowing bill to the Constitutional Court yesterday, four prominent economists expressed doubts or outright opposition to it, with some alleging that the bill was passed unconstitutionally by Parliament and would be detrimental to the country's budget discipline in the long run if it became law.

Four of the five economists testifying said the loan must be regarded as a state fund and should undergo mandatory regular budgetary management.

The bill, which was passed relying on an eight-page written proposal, stipulates that the spending of Bt2 trillion to upgrade the country's transport infrastructure could be made without parliamentary scrutiny, and future governments would only report the spending to Parliament.

Of the five economists speaking to the court, former finance minister Thanong Bidaya was the only one voicing support for the bill, saying the loan it authorised would not be a state fund, simply because the bill did not say so.

"It's an off-state-fund amount that the Finance and Transport ministries can spend without undergoing parliamentary scrutiny. They would only report the spending on the projects to the Parliament," he said.

The five economists provided additional and final statements to the charter court. The other four besides Thanong were former finance minister Thirachai Phuvanatnaranubala, deputy Finance Ministry permanent secretary Supa Piyajitti, a senior official of the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG), and a member of the now-defunct charter drafting committee.

The court is reviewing whether the bill adhered to constitutional principles under Articles 169 and 170, and whether the promulgation process was against Article 54 Paragraph 1, as alleged by its opponents.

It has set February 27 for closing statements by appointed Senator Khamnoon Sithisamarn, who represents the complainants, and caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, the accused.

The date for reading out the verdict will be set later.

OAG representative Patrachai Chuchury deemed the bill to fall under mandatory regulation as a state fund, regardless of a dubious Cabinet decision that the office was not to scrutinise projects that would be funded by the loan.

He said his office had the authority to scrutinise those projects and regulate the allocation of the money borrowed for them.


-- The Nation 2014-02-13

[TVGerry]

Only the corrupt Shinawatras would dare push through a 2 TRILLION baht loan with just an 8 page outline. Thank goodness this was stopped. Everyone knows this loan would be used to line the pockets of Shinawatra cronies first had it gone through.

It would also have been misused to pay the farmers and cover up the losses from the rice scam. PTP scum!

Edited February 12, 2014 by TVGerry

[noitom]

Mumbo jumbo, double talk.

[tomyummer]

8-page proposal for 2 trillion baht? Geez, my annual work permit and Non B visa renewal is like hundreds. Go figure.

[lemonjelly]

8-page proposal for 2 trillion baht? Geez, my annual work permit and Non B visa renewal is like hundreds. Go figure.

Aaah....but maybe it's 8 pages of 'small print'.

[Thait Spot]

It has to be the world's biggest petty cash scheme ever.

[JesseFrank]

It has set February 27 for closing statements by appointed Senator Khamnoon Sithisamarn, who represents the complainants, and caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, the accused.

The statements from the accused, caretaker prime minister Yingluck, will require little time, as they will be limited to " I don't know about this "

[chainarong]

8-page proposal for 2 trillion baht? Geez, my annual work permit and Non B visa renewal is like hundreds. Go figure.

My Oz taxation papers is 21 pages.

[johnthompson]

This government is a joke.

[rogerdee123]

I've seen similar shenanigans in Thai corporations with infighting and contentious issues between the outgoing board and incoming board. Actually it's more common that one would think.

An outgoing Board of Directors & Mgmt ties up all the corporations resources and mortgages assets so that the incoming Board & Mgmt will have little working capital to implement any of their intended activities (which they were elected by shareholders to do). Of course the outgoing Board is looking forward to the next Board elections so they can claim nothing was done by their opponents.

This is really quite a common tactic in Thailand's corporate world.

This is what the current Govt is trying to do .... tie up all the Govt revenue for some years to come ... so the next govt will look bad for not accomplishing much.

[animatic]

Nothing but Pork, a slush fund for graft, with some infrastructure as a facade.

And nothing but beans to the safeguards and checks and balances

[Ricardo]

"Lies, dam_n (white) Lies, and Government Spending-Plans !"

News just in ... Thailand bids to become Hub of Creative-Accounting !

Edited February 13, 2014 by Ricardo

[chainarong]

The preparation placed on this and other projects is the end result of bulldozing through programs that are not researched , to raise a loan of 2.2tn Bht would tale 12 mnths or more , to briefly put into prospective, a large mining company wanting to raise 6 tn USD for a stage 2 project , would take 2 years to complete ,with all the finance and legal obligations done correctly, with contacts already established.

[pmugghc]

So where are all our TVF government apologists?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tomacht8]

"It's an off-state-fund amount that the Finance and Transport ministries can spend without undergoing parliamentary scrutiny. They would only report the spending on the projects to the Parliament," he said.

What kind are these irresponsible people.
Borrow money and 3 generations must pay for the next 50 years around 6 Trillion back!
And that without a strong check and balance mechanism.
This is a real Ali Baba and the 40 thieves mentality.
I hope for my thai children that this kind of people aka representatives of the people
never get anymore a post in a state Office nor public funds in hand.
Such people are a disgrace to society.

[Crushdepth]

Two trillion baht without Parliamentary oversight?

The intent is clear.

[trogers]

Of the five economists speaking to the court, former finance minister Thanong Bidaya was the only one voicing support for the bill, saying the loan it authorised would not be a state fund, simply because the bill did not say so.

Seems we have an expert in finance who is a 'Yes' man...and was still testifying his 'expert view' as a yes-man..."it is so because my master said it is not a state fund"...

[stoneman]

Only the corrupt Shinawatras would dare push through a 2 TRILLION baht loan with just an 8 page outline. Thank goodness this was stopped. Everyone knows this loan would be used to line the pockets of Shinawatra cronies first had it gone through.

It would also have been misused to pay the farmers and cover up the losses from the rice scam. PTP scum!

It is my opinion that all the protests and demonstrations in BKK are tied to this loan....The Chamber of Commerce University did a study and they found that the corruption rate in govt programs is 35%...So there is 700 BILLION baht in corruption there for the party running the govt when it is started....The best business in BKK would be to open a Maserati/Rolls Royce/Bentley dealership across the street from Government House...

Edited February 13, 2014 by stoneman

[worgeordie]

A Government Chit fund, you could not trust this mob with

the kids pocket money,never mind 2 Trillion !

regards Worgeordie

[ETatBKK]

how many hundred years Thai could return this 2 TRILLION baht from their GDP learning ?

so, why this is a 'off-state-fund' ?

[thesetat2013]

I think your wrong about them trying to make the next PM and gov look bad. I am sure they saw themselves in power when they passed this scheme.

What people should be looking at is which member of the PTP or family of Thaksin stands to get the contracts and profit from this scheme. My guess is that land on the planned routes for this train and new businesses that could construct it have already been taken by the people or family members of the drafters of this scheme.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Theoutsider]

So where are all our TVF government apologists?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why

[pmugghc]

So where are all our TVF government apologists?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why

They always defend the government's actions. No one has defended this off-budget loan yet.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Theoutsider]

So where are all our TVF government apologists?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why

They always defend the government's actions. No one has defended this off-budget loan yet.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You will get nowhere. 5 more pages of the usual with people bickering looking for row. If you really want to make a change, go and speak to the red scum.

Still they could do with a upgrade of the rolling stock.

[holeyman1]

Reported billions have yet to be paid to farmers on the rice scheme.

(Reportedly due to unrest and legality issues)

Now they are talking about trillions?

Not sure how the proposed will pay for the loan but don't hold your breath....

What next on the table if this doesn't fall through, GAZILLIONS?

somtam palah

Edited February 13, 2014 by holeyman1

[Commander Tamson]

So where are all our TVF government apologists?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why

They always defend the government's actions. No one has defended this off-budget loan yet.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You will get nowhere. 5 more pages of the usual with people bickering looking for row. If you really want to make a change, go and speak to the red scum.

Still they could do with a upgrade of the rolling stock.

So right! 2.2 trillion for an upgrade of some of the current stock sounds like a bargain to me! Can't renew any of course for that measly amount. Surely just letting parliament know that that is what it is being spent on is sufficient and would satisfy the needs of any audit. Why all the fuss <deleted>!

PS the apologists have been noticeably quiet so far on this one. So I thought I'd put some words together for them

Edited February 13, 2014 by Commander Tamson

[skills32]

So where are all our TVF government apologists?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why

Because.

[crobe]

While I support the overall concept of infrastructure spending to improve the country, this scheme, like all others from the PTP, has fallen down on the implementation - this exposes the two weaknesses of the PTO led administration - incompetence and arrogance.

It has been incompetent in the process - the feasibility studies may have been conducted by reputable international companies, but their recommendations have not been followed - the decision on the 2.2Tn loan amount is not justified according to the recommendations. This does not say that the amoiunt should be spent on upgrading the current rolling stock and lines (in fact a full replacement program with conventional rolling stock is almost as expensive as going for the high speed rail as the majority of the costs involved are on the lines, crossings, safety etc.)

The arrogance comes in because they have ploughed ahead with the high-speed for 4 (5?) lines with the Chiang Mai line a priority to appease their party constituents - this is not acting in the national best interests and shows the blatant arrogance endemic in party policies. They assume the electrorate are too dumb to understand this.

The east coast line to Rayong, being the shortest line intended, and taking in Suvarnhabumi airport and the major tourist destination of Pattaya would be economically feasible, although needing a 10-15 year return period. This could be financed by a combination of ODA (Overseas Development aid) and private equity funding at much lower costs than the overall 2.2Tn loan would need to attract.

Realising this line first, without piling on government debt, would show the feasibility of high-speed rail in Thailand, and allow for the build up of the capabilties needed to realise the longer lines.

The use of ODA and PE funding would also provide some financial oversight, together with an independent APO (Autonomous Public Organisation) so that there would be less ability to siphon off the usual 30% to a dummy contractor who is the brother in law of someone high up in the government.

[Scamper]

This lawless administration has continually fashioned its own parliamentary and constitutional rules to its tastes and has flaunted it.

" The bill, which was passed relying on an eight-page written proposal, stipulates that the spending of Bt2 trillion to upgrade the country's transport infrastructure could be made without parliamentary scrutiny, and future governments would only report the spending to Parliament. "

A blanket allocation of 2 trillion baht, on the basis of a vague eight page proposal, with do details, and no mechanisms for future scrutiny.

" OAG representative Patrachai Chuchury deemed the bill to fall under mandatory regulation as a state fund, regardless of a dubious Cabinet decision that the office was not to scrutinize projects that would be funded by the loan. "

A unilateral cabinet decision dictating that the Office of the Attorney General is forbidden from scrutinizing it. Utterly crooked. The constitutional argument - that the Yingluck administration will lose - it that they have the power to fashion a bill that allocates 2 trillion baht that is exempt from the budget and therefore exempt from budgetary parliamentary scrutiny, and can include language to limit future parliamentary scrutiny, and further in a dictum by the cabinet, to disallow the Office of the Attorney General - whose function it is to scrutinize public allocation of funds - from doing so. That's the constitutional argument the Yingluck administration will bring to the table. And on that, they will surely lose. That, and their right to govern.

[JRSoul]

You will get nowhere. 5 more pages of the usual with people bickering looking for row. If you really want to make a change, go and speak to the red scum.

Still they could do with a upgrade of the rolling stock.

You could ask yourself how much rolling stock and track upgrading would the B600 billion wasted on the rice scam buy. And if helping the Isaan economy is such a high priority, they could build a new line to Nakhon Phanom, and/or railway workshops to build the new rolling stock. That would give a lot of poor rice farmers an option to scratching in the mud for a bare living.