Evolutionary puzzle of homosexuality

[CharlieH]

its a bit long but interesting.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26089486

[ToddWeston]

Very interesting Charlie, thanks for posting.

I've followed the science angle for years and in early 2015 there will be a study released on the Epi-Marks and how they relate to Epi-Genetics and the "gay marker". I've read a few of the preliminary findings, they are very complex and need to be dumbed down for general consumption. I do believe it will be a combination of a gene and a genetic connection.

In my family same sex relationships are on both my maternal and paternal side & there is one trait that the eldest in 3 out of 9 are gay, including myself. It will be intersting to see the next generation.

Nieces and Nephews - I'm guilty, each and every one I cherish. I really do live my life for those kids, they also know to stay in Uncle Toddies good books for inheritance purposes :) As for our own kids it's still a very sensitive topic and is probably the only thing in life I/we haven't accomplished.

I do believe the comment Professor Vasey made was spot on "Sexual identity and sexual behaviours are not good measures of sexual orientation,"

[isanbirder]

I wondered why so few people were reading this thread. True, it is long and fairly complex!

I've often wondered why homosexuality exists at all. It seems to be contrary to the perpetuation of the species (whatever species), and yet it occurs all over nature. But I'm no scientist!

Looking at it from a purely commonsense point-of-view, I suppose it is one of the escape valves nature has built in to deal with over-population, like the suicide instinct of lemmings, and the drone + worker infrastructure of many insects.

Meanwhile we can just go on and be what we are!

[ToddWeston]

Here is the initial report that will have more test data released in mid 2015 that I referred to above on Epi markers & Epi genetics.

It's fairly complex and even as a person of science I'm still digesting the data

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167#mobileBookmark

It's not only on TV that isn't getting the exposure. I suggested the article be attached to the above report in my peer group and the response was "another gay topic" the committee is 75% gay. I think there has been an overload in the news lately, hopefully the science will get the attention it deserves.

[isanbirder]

It's quite beyond me, Todd, but thanks anyway!

[sustento]

I wondered why so few people were reading this thread. True, it is long and fairly complex!

Probably because some of us don't really care. If they discover what makes us gay what difference is it going to make? Apart from the fact that some loon will try and use it to develop a 'cure'. I'm a bender. That's it. Not really interested why.

[ToddWeston]

It's quite beyond me, Todd, but thanks anyway!

It's very deep and I had difficulty keeping up, didn't help that I had an eye injury yesterday when I was reading all of it

As the science expands it's going to be intersting to see how the different religions handle this information.

I think for many that have a strong religious faith, support on how we merge our beliefs with the genetic gene factor evidenced in the above articles will be an intersting topic.

I've found comfort when older relatives accept me, as they believe God made me this way, I certainly don't want to stoke/pollute the discussion with science, however it is nice to know.

[ToddWeston]

I wondered why so few people were reading this thread. True, it is long and fairly complex!

Probably because some of us don't really care. If they discover what makes us gay what difference is it going to make? Apart from the fact that some loon will try and use it to develop a 'cure'. I'm a bender. That's it. Not really interested why.

That was my first reaction about the loons trying to find a cure stay away leave us alone.

I suppose we could all hide out in Pattaya and start our own colony 55555

[Scott]

I have downloaded and printed it out and will read it, eventually. I am pretty busy right now, but I have taught upper level science and I do try to keep abreast of scientific advances, especially in the bio-chemistry area, including genetics.

I've got a good friend here who has a Ph.D. in biochemistry, so he can help if it gets a little too deep.

[onthemoon]

I wondered why so few people were reading this thread. True, it is long and fairly complex!

Probably because some of us don't really care. If they discover what makes us gay what difference is it going to make? Apart from the fact that some loon will try and use it to develop a 'cure'. I'm a bender. That's it. Not really interested why.

I agree. I haven't even read it because it does not matter why I am gay. It matters that I am, and please accept me the way I am. (The other reason I stopped reading is of course that I did not understand the vocabulary.)

Scientists always want to know why, and that is OK. I have no problem with that, I am also curious.

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

[isanbirder]

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

I think it changes a lot. The more homosexuality is included as a part of the whole evolutionary system, the less grounds those fools who want to 'cure' us will have for their beliefs. If it becomes seen as something as natural as lefthandedness, that's all to the good for us.

[onthemoon]

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

I think it changes a lot. The more homosexuality is included as a part of the whole evolutionary system, the less grounds those fools who want to 'cure' us will have for their beliefs. If it becomes seen as something as natural as lefthandedness, that's all to the good for us.

Good point.

[ToddWeston]

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

I think it changes a lot. The more homosexuality is included as a part of the whole evolutionary system, the less grounds those fools who want to 'cure' us will have for their beliefs. If it becomes seen as something as natural as lefthandedness, that's all to the good for us.

Spot on, if science can help with even with a small percent it will be a very good thing.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

Acceptance of Homosexuality.

Lots of issues in other country's and regions however I'm impressed with the top 5.

Spain 88%

Germany 87%

Canada 80%

Australia 79%

UK 76%

[sustento]

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

I think it changes a lot. The more homosexuality is included as a part of the whole evolutionary system, the less grounds those fools who want to 'cure' us will have for their beliefs. If it becomes seen as something as natural as lefthandedness, that's all to the good for us.

Spot on, if science can help with even with a small percent it will be a very good thing.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

Acceptance of Homosexuality.

Lots of issues in other country's and regions however I'm impressed with the top 5.

Spain 88%

Germany 87%

Canada 80%

Australia 79%

A long time ago in a land far away I was on a ship in Geelong harbour. It was 2 o'clock in the morning and I was doing the rounds. I walked past the bar just in time to hear an Aussie female say 'tits first you bastard'. This may be why Australia is so accepting of homosexuality...

[isanbirder]

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

I think it changes a lot. The more homosexuality is included as a part of the whole evolutionary system, the less grounds those fools who want to 'cure' us will have for their beliefs. If it becomes seen as something as natural as lefthandedness, that's all to the good for us.

Spot on, if science can help with even with a small percent it will be a very good thing.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

Acceptance of Homosexuality.

Lots of issues in other country's and regions however I'm impressed with the top 5.

Spain 88%

Germany 87%

Canada 80%

Australia 79%

UK 76%

Some interesting figures in that article, Todd. I was surprised to see U.S. acceptance of homosexuality as low as 60% I was also pleased to see Italy (at 74%), Brazil and the Philippines all quite high.

A pity no figures for Thailand are included.

[ToddWeston]

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

I think it changes a lot. The more homosexuality is included as a part of the whole evolutionary system, the less grounds those fools who want to 'cure' us will have for their beliefs. If it becomes seen as something as natural as lefthandedness, that's all to the good for us.

Spot on, if science can help with even with a small percent it will be a very good thing.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

Acceptance of Homosexuality.

Lots of issues in other country's and regions however I'm impressed with the top 5.

Spain 88%

Germany 87%

Canada 80%

Australia 79%

UK 76%

Some interesting figures in that article, Todd. I was surprised to see U.S. acceptance of homosexuality as low as 60% I was also pleased to see Italy (at 74%), Brazil and the Philippines all quite high.

A pity no figures for Thailand are included.

It is a pity, I would think it would be quite high as well.

Spain, Italy & the Philippines are obviously strong Catholic country's, it's nice to see such support.

I'm sure in certain parts of the USA it could be as much as 90% opposed, let's hope the science will have a positve change in attitude.

[sustento]

I'm sure in certain parts of the USA it could be as much as 90% opposed, let's hope the science will have a positve change in attitude.

In those parts of the USA where opposition is high it's not science you need to convince the locals - it's a few gay snake-handlers

[onthemoon]

Nature vs nurture. I do believe it is nature, but hey, what does that change in the socio-political arena?

I think it changes a lot. The more homosexuality is included as a part of the whole evolutionary system, the less grounds those fools who want to 'cure' us will have for their beliefs. If it becomes seen as something as natural as lefthandedness, that's all to the good for us.

Spot on, if science can help with even with a small percent it will be a very good thing.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

Acceptance of Homosexuality.

Lots of issues in other country's and regions however I'm impressed with the top 5.

Spain 88%

Germany 87%

Canada 80%

Australia 79%

UK 76%

I read the article and am confident with the methodology. The sample sizes are high, and the random sampling choices acceptable, but why did they use different sampling methods in different countries?

I am sorry they did not include Thailand. As has already been mentioned, that would have been very interesting for us here.

Edited February 22, 2014 by onthemoon

[Scott]

Thailand is an anomaly in so many respects, it just might have negated the study!

[onthemoon]

Thailand is an anomaly in so many respects, it just might have negated the study!

Interesting statement. Founding out whether it's true would be worth a study, I'd say!

[Scott]

I've been studying it for years and my samplings are pretty random. Unfortunately, I long ago did with that very boring 'control group'.

[onthemoon]

I've been studying it for years and my samplings are pretty random. Unfortunately, I long ago did with that very boring 'control group'.

What was the control group? Straight guys or non-Thais?

Just curious...

[Scott]

My criteria was pretty broad: Non-gay, male, alive, susceptible to persuasion (including intoxicated).

But with regard the study, I am pretty busy so I hope this thread is still visible when I finally get it read.

[CWMcMurray]

So if a "gay gene" is found, what is to stop some for testing during pregnancy?

If a couple finds this gene, what if they decide to terminate pregnancy?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sustento]

My criteria was pretty broad: Non-gay, male, alive, susceptible to persuasion (including intoxicated).

Otherwise known as the '2 o'clock in the morning shag'.

[sustento]

So if a "gay gene" is found, what is to stop some for testing during pregnancy?

If a couple finds this gene, what if they decide to terminate pregnancy?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Then the world will become a grim and drab place as there'll be no more musicals and interior design will look as though it was done by a Soviet Commissar.

Edited February 23, 2014 by sustento

[Scott]

My criteria was pretty broad: Non-gay, male, alive, susceptible to persuasion (including intoxicated).

Otherwise known as the '2 o'clock in the morning shag'.

Susteno, how dare you accuse me of such inappropriate behavior!! I am too old for that, I have to get them drunk much earlier than that and be home in bed!

[Scott]

Hopefully, if they do find a 'gay gene' it will also be tied to something else, like having two kidneys or 10 fingers. We already know it is tied to having talent and good taste!

[Scott]

If they find a gay gene and eliminate us, we will all have haircuts like Kim Jong Un. What a sad place to live in!

[sustento]

My criteria was pretty broad: Non-gay, male, alive, susceptible to persuasion (including intoxicated).

Otherwise known as the '2 o'clock in the morning shag'.

Susteno, how dare you accuse me of such inappropriate behavior!! I am too old for that, I have to get them drunk much earlier than that and be home in bed!

It takes one to know one dear