Rice-pledging scheme: a death trap for govt and farmers

[belg]

when they say no corruption, they mean nothing above the usual 30% on everything that disappears in the wrong pockets

[SICHONSTEVE]

The pledged price of rice, even though higher than market, to my mind is not so bad......it's a rural subsidy which many countries apply to the farming industry.

Managed properly, it possibly could have been sustainable and actually benefited the rural folk.

The faults of the scheme has been in the management....there hasn't been any which is abundantly clear!

Warning signs and genuine advice were ignored, and the graft spiralled out of control until it got the the state it is now at.

Politicians should never be allowed to manage any form of state enterprise.

Thai Air is another glaring example about to fall victim to the same management principles.

If you put a starving kid alone inside a sweet shop and tell him he is not to touch the sweets do you think that he is going to hungry when he comes out 1 hour later???

[Nalo56]

This whole mess with all of what is occuring here in Thailand brings to mind the song from West Side Story called Officer Krupep check it out, "That's it is a mess":

[rubl]

"The government has used up the allocated budget of Bt700 billion"

Actually the initial 500 billion was used up and new loans taken and some more and now a need for 130 bilion more. Of course the losses according to some are minimal as most rice is still in storage. Probably 'maturing' as well

[soalbundy]

The rice scheme must stop now. Let see how the farmers like them apples

It does need to stop before more damage is done. Readjusting will already be difficult, since rice prices are now lower than when the scheme started and there's a massive stockpile to deal with which isn't going to help.

There are much better, sustainable ways to support farmers.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, but not with Bangkokian tax payers money.

Please raise the fund locally.

What is "Bangkokian tax payers money" When you earn money you have a tax debt to the government,the tax you pay is the governments money (by definition,the country's money) What they do with it has nothing to do with you,it is no longer your's. How wise of them if they use it well,but your tax bill wont go down. How inconsolable we all are that they use the money badly,but your tax bill doesn't go up.

You seem to take it personally about what happens to the tax money you pay,why? you have no stakes here, you will never own part of an aircraft carrier,or a landing light of a Griffon fighter jet. You will in all probability never be affected whatever is done with the money. Take a deep breath and say, "its not my money"......you will feel better afterwards

[rubl]

The rice scheme must stop now. Let see how the farmers like them apples

It does need to stop before more damage is done. Readjusting will already be difficult, since rice prices are now lower than when the scheme started and there's a massive stockpile to deal with which isn't going to help.

There are much better, sustainable ways to support farmers.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, but not with Bangkokian tax payers money.

Please raise the fund locally.

What is "Bangkokian tax payers money" When you earn money you have a tax debt to the government,the tax you pay is the governments money (by definition,the country's money) What they do with it has nothing to do with you,it is no longer your's. How wise of them if they use it well,but your tax bill wont go down. How inconsolable we all are that they use the money badly,but your tax bill doesn't go up.

You seem to take it personally about what happens to the tax money you pay,why? you have no stakes here, you will never own part of an aircraft carrier,or a landing light of a Griffon fighter jet. You will in all probability never be affected whatever is done with the money. Take a deep breath and say, "its not my money"......you will feel better afterwards

I don't agree with 'Bangkokian taxpayers money' either, that a misleading and incorrect statement.

Mind you, your "What they do with it has nothing to do with you,it is no longer your's." is misleading and incorrect as well. All taxpayers still feel as if taxes paid are theirs if only emotionally and the government would do better to spent it wisely and accept the need for transparency to keep both taxpayers and the electorate relatively happy.

[Barney R]

The pledged price of rice, even though higher than market, to my mind is not so bad......it's a rural subsidy which many countries apply to the farming industry.

Managed properly, it possibly could have been sustainable and actually benefited the rural folk.

The faults of the scheme has been in the management....there hasn't been any which is abundantly clear!

Warning signs and genuine advice were ignored, and the graft spiralled out of control until it got the the state it is now at.

Politicians should never be allowed to manage any form of state enterprise.

Thai Air is another glaring example about to fall victim to the same management principles.

Warning signs were not ignored. The PTP did consider changing the program but the Democrats objected. Now the Democrats hypocritically insist the fault of the program lies entirely with the PTP government. I have never seen a government overthorwn for making bad decisions, sure such government become vulnerable in the next elections against charges of inefficiency. But in Thailand the accusation of corruption seems to be a convenient catch-all for everything politicians oppose.

You obviously do not know your history too well Gough Whitlam's Labour Party was sacked in Australia for making "bad decisions" they nearly bankrupted Australia .

[timewilltell]

An ignorant policy with corruption as its aim. This was never a policy aimed at helping the POOR farmers, many of whom are too small to participate, but a policy to benefit big farmers, millers, warehousemen, money lenders and the middlemen as well as huge corruption for the perpetrators of the policy.

If they wanted to help poor farmers this was never the way to do it. Pheu Thai are traitors to Thailand and should be treated as such.

Shame also on the Democrats whose myopic policies have still not been thought through to provide a balance which include every sector of society. History will show the huge opportunity they have wasted here because of their own selfish ideas.

As for Yingluck and her team running around trying to lay the blame at everyone's feet except her own where the responsibility actually lies, it is sad the average Thai cannot see the wood for the trees and soak up the wrapping paper around the pile of Doo Doo that is PT.

And now Yingluck is after forcing the AOT to deposit funds to cover what her corruption has lost for Thailand and screw the shareholders much like the attempt to get the GSB to bail her out, my goodness isn't it all so obvious?

"Shame also on the Democrats whose myopic policies"

I'm just wondering what the Democrat's "myopic" polices were? They had a rice policy that went directly to the farmer and didn't get syphoned off by the millers and middle men. In a survey in the north, the Democrat policies were actually preferred. What other "selfish" ideas did they have?

Their myopic policy is that they did not embrace the poor enough - I think that is pretty obvious for otherwise Thaksin would not have quite such a big following among the poor - would he?

[timewilltell]

An ignorant policy with corruption as its aim. This was never a policy aimed at helping the POOR farmers, many of whom are too small to participate, but a policy to benefit big farmers, millers, warehousemen, money lenders and the middlemen as well as huge corruption for the perpetrators of the policy.

If they wanted to help poor farmers this was never the way to do it. Pheu Thai are traitors to Thailand and should be treated as such.

Shame also on the Democrats whose myopic policies have still not been thought through to provide a balance which include every sector of society. History will show the huge opportunity they have wasted here because of their own selfish ideas.

As for Yingluck and her team running around trying to lay the blame at everyone's feet except her own where the responsibility actually lies, it is sad the average Thai cannot see the wood for the trees and soak up the wrapping paper around the pile of Doo Doo that is PT.

And now Yingluck is after forcing the AOT to deposit funds to cover what her corruption has lost for Thailand and screw the shareholders much like the attempt to get the GSB to bail her out, my goodness isn't it all so obvious?

"Shame also on the Democrats whose myopic policies"

I'm just wondering what the Democrat's "myopic" polices were? They had a rice policy that went directly to the farmer and didn't get syphoned off by the millers and middle men. In a survey in the north, the Democrat policies were actually preferred. What other "selfish" ideas did they have?

I was wondering that to and as the poster seems to have inside knowledge of the Dems policies it would be great if he/she could detail them because I for one really would like to know.

To the best of my knowledge nothing has been announced publicly and to my way of thinking it is about time they, and all parties put their cards on the table and told the country just what they would do.

Far to much ; he did, she did, they did and nothing about what any of them would do to fix things.

You are right Rob - and since there has been so little said about what the policies of the various parties are - at least so far as I have seen - and certainly no debate on the matter it is hard to see what current policy is. I was referring to the fact that the Democrats gave a big opportunity to get a really great advantage if only they would get their act together - in that way being rather short sighted. Perhaps they have a cunning Plan but more likely have straws up their noses.

[whybother]

"Shame also on the Democrats whose myopic policies"

I'm just wondering what the Democrat's "myopic" polices were? They had a rice policy that went directly to the farmer and didn't get syphoned off by the millers and middle men. In a survey in the north, the Democrat policies were actually preferred. What other "selfish" ideas did they have?

Their myopic policy is that they did not embrace the poor enough - I think that is pretty obvious for otherwise Thaksin would not have quite such a big following among the poor - would he?

Thaksin has a "following among the poor" because he bought the same politicians that these people have been voting for for decades. The people didn't change who they were voting for, except that these people had been bought in under Thaksin's party (either TRT, PPP, or PTP).

Your comment doesn't explain why the poor people in the south support the Democrats ... unless you're saying that there are no poor people south of Bangkok.

Edited February 19, 2014 by whybother

[MaxLee]

Rice-pledging scheme: a death trap for govt and farmers

A death trap for govt and more to the farmers and the nation's tax payers than the Pheu Thai Goons

[timewilltell]

An ignorant policy with corruption as its aim. This was never a policy aimed at helping the POOR farmers, many of whom are too small to participate, but a policy to benefit big farmers, millers, warehousemen, money lenders and the middlemen as well as huge corruption for the perpetrators of the policy.

If they wanted to help poor farmers this was never the way to do it. Pheu Thai are traitors to Thailand and should be treated as such.

Shame also on the Democrats whose myopic policies have still not been thought through to provide a balance which include every sector of society. History will show the huge opportunity they have wasted here because of their own selfish ideas.

As for Yingluck and her team running around trying to lay the blame at everyone's feet except her own where the responsibility actually lies, it is sad the average Thai cannot see the wood for the trees and soak up the wrapping paper around the pile of Doo Doo that is PT.

And now Yingluck is after forcing the AOT to deposit funds to cover what her corruption has lost for Thailand and screw the shareholders much like the attempt to get the GSB to bail her out, my goodness isn't it all so obvious?

So your argument is that the PTP was corrupt by developing a program intended to help Democrat supporters. Yet the Democrats are blaming the government as corrupt for using the rice program as a means to buy poor farmer votes. Seems there has to be some misrepresentations being made about the program with regard to corruption. It's more like, "If it's my corruption, it's okay but if it's your corruption, it's not okay."

Erm how does the PTP rice scheme benefit Democrat voters specifically - unless of course you are of the opinion that Democrat voters are rich and PT voters are all poor. That is of course a nonsense when you look at the likes of Chalerm and Thaksin and all the ministers and their friends who are hugely rich. I know a few PT voters who are several hundred millions rich thank you very much.

Nor did I say the Democrat politicians were not corrupt but I truly believe the Rice Scheme never truly targeted helping the poor but rather friends of the PT party and the rice growing regions.

Thais are masters at doing things that help themselves while wrapping it all up in propaganda that paints things as somehow benefitting you. It is all BS of course once you see through it.

[Scamper]

The final blow to this administration regarding the rice scheme came this week by something largely unanticipated - a veritable flood of customers withdrawing their savings. That was Kittirat's last stand, in many ways, because - despite all his convoluted and devious and unconstitutional machinations - he was going to be outdone by the people themselves anyway. They weren't going to put their life savings at risk. It has been a poetic bookend to this very sad chapter in Thai history. The courts will now pick up the pieces.

[monkeycountry]

"It was right for her to say that there was no corruption at the policy level"

If one makes a policy to simply dish out alot of cash, without including in that policy any safeguards against corruption and theft, then I would say it is corruption/theft at policy level - or at best, negligence of duty. Ie. the policy is intentionally made in a way that makes it easy for corrupt people (including the policy makers own family and friends) to exploit it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The pledged price of rice, even though higher than market, to my mind is not so bad......it's a rural subsidy which many countries apply to the farming industry.

Managed properly, it possibly could have been sustainable and actually benefited the rural folk.

The faults of the scheme has been in the management....there hasn't been any which is abundantly clear!

Warning signs and genuine advice were ignored, and the graft spiralled out of control until it got the the state it is now at.

Politicians should never be allowed to manage any form of state enterprise.

Thai Air is another glaring example about to fall victim to the same management principles.

Warning signs were not ignored. The PTP did consider changing the program but the Democrats objected. Now the Democrats hypocritically insist the fault of the program lies entirely with the PTP government. I have never seen a government overthorwn for making bad decisions, sure such government become vulnerable in the next elections against charges of inefficiency. But in Thailand the accusation of corruption seems to be a convenient catch-all for everything politicians oppose.

You obviously do not know your history too well Gough Whitlam's Labour Party was sacked in Australia for making "bad decisions" they nearly bankrupted Australia .

All governments are sacked for making bad decisions - far milder than the balls up's PTP have made!!

[Sayonarax]

Really every few days you post the some tripe.. getting old like Al Jazeera re-posting the same topic over and over.

[Robby nz]

Around here the paddy is mostly in the seed head stage (rice grain) and will be due for harvest I would think in the next month.

Some has already been harvested and as I get around the small sois between the paddy I wonder what is going to happen to all these tons of rice when they are harvested.

I would think the farmers are going to be very reluctant to entrust any to the pledging scheme again and they certainly cant keep the stuff so I guess it only leaves selling privately to the millers or traders for whatever they can get, which could well leave them in a loss situation, still they will have some money on hand hopefully enough to pay off any debts and keep them going. But going till when and to what ?

The new seasons rice being sold privately will mean that the Govt trying to sell the stockpiles will be in direct competition with the farmers, lowering prices even farther.

Unfortunately for the farmers, Thailand cannot domestically absorb all the current rice stock at any price and must put rice on the international marketplace - farmers are not themselves capable to make bulk international sales. International buyers know there is now a glut of Thailand rice resulting from delays in sales and will take advantage of the glut to drive down the prices even further. To make matters worse, another harvest is on its way. Farmers might be better off to plow under, or whatever is the procedure, current rice production or donate it to the Monks. Regardless of this epic disaster, who is trying to make matters better for the farmers? They need rice sales, not sympathy, not political support, not finger-pointing; those things don't pay bills and feed the family.

Around here the paddy is mostly in the seed head stage (rice grain) and will be due for harvest I would think in the next month.

Indeed the whole world market cant take all the rice on offer from all the world producers.

However you have it wrong that the farmers should plow in of otherwise destroy their crop for it is the new seasons rice that will be in the highest demand and should therefore achieve the best price.

They can also get money immediately from selling their crop on the open market rather than waiting in hope that the Govt can sell the rice in stock.

It also must be remembered that the money the farmers are owed is for a previous crop so it must be added to what they can get for their new crop.

That means there will be money for 2 crops and even if they are forced to sell the new seasons crop cheaply it does not wipe out the Govts obligation to pay them for the pledged rice they have already sold for the price promised.

So to destroy the new crop would mean the best they could hope for would be getting paid for the previous crop only.

If they did that they would still have the investment in the new crop in the form of fertilizer, spray, labor, etc that has to be paid and selling the new crop should at least pay that off.

To destroy the crop they are about to harvest in the hope that by so doing it would somehow boost the price the Govt could get for the stored rice or speed up sales makes no sense.

For regardless of how much the Govt gets through rice sales it will not change how much they owe each farmer.

Incidentally I'm glad to see that you now realise that finger pointing does no one any good.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Around here the paddy is mostly in the seed head stage (rice grain) and will be due for harvest I would think in the next month.

Some has already been harvested and as I get around the small sois between the paddy I wonder what is going to happen to all these tons of rice when they are harvested.

I would think the farmers are going to be very reluctant to entrust any to the pledging scheme again and they certainly cant keep the stuff so I guess it only leaves selling privately to the millers or traders for whatever they can get, which could well leave them in a loss situation, still they will have some money on hand hopefully enough to pay off any debts and keep them going. But going till when and to what ?

The new seasons rice being sold privately will mean that the Govt trying to sell the stockpiles will be in direct competition with the farmers, lowering prices even farther.

Unfortunately for the farmers, Thailand cannot domestically absorb all the current rice stock at any price and must put rice on the international marketplace - farmers are not themselves capable to make bulk international sales. International buyers know there is now a glut of Thailand rice resulting from delays in sales and will take advantage of the glut to drive down the prices even further. To make matters worse, another harvest is on its way. Farmers might be better off to plow under, or whatever is the procedure, current rice production or donate it to the Monks. Regardless of this epic disaster, who is trying to make matters better for the farmers? They need rice sales, not sympathy, not political support, not finger-pointing; those things don't pay bills and feed the family.

Around here the paddy is mostly in the seed head stage (rice grain) and will be due for harvest I would think in the next month.

Indeed the whole world market cant take all the rice on offer from all the world producers.

However you have it wrong that the farmers should plow in of otherwise destroy their crop for it is the new seasons rice that will be in the highest demand and should therefore achieve the best price.

They can also get money immediately from selling their crop on the open market rather than waiting in hope that the Govt can sell the rice in stock.

It also must be remembered that the money the farmers are owed is for a previous crop so it must be added to what they can get for their new crop.

That means there will be money for 2 crops and even if they are forced to sell the new seasons crop cheaply it does not wipe out the Govts obligation to pay them for the pledged rice they have already sold for the price promised.

So to destroy the new crop would mean the best they could hope for would be getting paid for the previous crop only.

If they did that they would still have the investment in the new crop in the form of fertilizer, spray, labor, etc that has to be paid and selling the new crop should at least pay that off.

To destroy the crop they are about to harvest in the hope that by so doing it would somehow boost the price the Govt could get for the stored rice or speed up sales makes no sense.

For regardless of how much the Govt gets through rice sales it will not change how much they owe each farmer.

Incidentally I'm glad to see that you now realise that finger pointing does no one any good.

All of this points to one thing - Thaksin is to blame for the whole chebang.

I hope that Yingluck is put down for this, having ruined so many people's livelihoods. Shame on the bitc*!!!

I can't wait to see if Yingluck does a runner at the end of the month rather than face the music, either way, she won't be in charge of the country any more (maybe not in the country either).

[timewilltell]

"Shame also on the Democrats whose myopic policies"

I'm just wondering what the Democrat's "myopic" polices were? They had a rice policy that went directly to the farmer and didn't get syphoned off by the millers and middle men. In a survey in the north, the Democrat policies were actually preferred. What other "selfish" ideas did they have?

Their myopic policy is that they did not embrace the poor enough - I think that is pretty obvious for otherwise Thaksin would not have quite such a big following among the poor - would he?

Thaksin has a "following among the poor" because he bought the same politicians that these people have been voting for for decades. The people didn't change who they were voting for, except that these people had been bought in under Thaksin's party (either TRT, PPP, or PTP).

Your comment doesn't explain why the poor people in the south support the Democrats ... unless you're saying that there are no poor people south of Bangkok.

Well I pretty much agree with you actually. However I do think the democrats have a policy problem or maybe it is a problem with the dissemination of that policy. And I think the people in the north of Thailand are n the whole a little poorer than those in the south - yes.

[whybother]

Well I pretty much agree with you actually. However I do think the democrats have a policy problem or maybe it is a problem with the dissemination of that policy. And I think the people in the north of Thailand are n the whole a little poorer than those in the south - yes.

The Democrats don't have a policy problem. A 2011 survey in the N/NE rated their policies better than others.

The Democrats have a delivery problem. They can't get their message out in a lot of areas, and it is also overridden by a lot of red shirt propaganda. I mean how can you vote for someone that is recorded as saying "Go out and kill some red shirts"?

[timewilltell]

Well I pretty much agree with you actually. However I do think the democrats have a policy problem or maybe it is a problem with the dissemination of that policy. And I think the people in the north of Thailand are n the whole a little poorer than those in the south - yes.

The Democrats don't have a policy problem. A 2011 survey in the N/NE rated their policies better than others.

The Democrats have a delivery problem. They can't get their message out in a lot of areas, and it is also overridden by a lot of red shirt propaganda. I mean how can you vote for someone that is recorded as saying "Go out and kill some red shirts"?

It seems we agree then. A delivery or dissemination problem means people don't get to learn their policies which is a problem.

[AbuBacon]

Thailand should be a leader in agri futures as a natural producer. Let the farmers hedge.... But oh no...that boat has sailed long ago. AFET IS A JOKE but should be the tool for helping farmers mitigate risk. Should learn from the Indonesians.... If they can do it why not somchai and crew? Having said that Cp have cost themselves big time through unhedged positions... Which I find hugely amusing

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