Rice-scheme woes not major factor in suicides, Thai agency says

[johnlandy]

And the 'headline' Rice-scheme woes not major factor in suicides, Thai agency says tell that to the wife of the guy who has just topped himself

[johnlandy]

And the 'headline' Rice-scheme woes not major factor in suicides, Thai agency says tell that to the wife of the guy who has just topped himself

[belg]

while farmers with no money gets credit card, for the average expat that does not have a WP, it is as good as impossible, even with millions of savings in the bank, to get one ...

thainessssss

[phantomfiddler]

I,m surprised the government has not blamed the suicides on the anti-government protesters, just a matter of time I guess

[Suriya4]

How much did Thaksin paid for this findings?

[Patpending]

This has to be genuinely the lowest point in propaganda .

First the nation and other news just prints that every farmer suicide is rice scheme related. Then the government refutes it?

People died.........

Stop.using it for politics and solve the f*****g issue.

the more I read, the less people on the middle ground i am seeing.

in real life it is not this bad in normal life, but it is once they get into groups of their own kind.

Both sides using farmers to back up their cause. bad times.

[geriatrickid]

""We found that the main risk factors for committing suicide were mental-health problems, physical ailments and family problems. Economic problems caused by large informal debts was also a main factor leading them to commit suicide," Panpimol said."

Thank you for your diagnosis, Dr. Panpimol. I also have a mental problem that will make me suicide because of the crap that you mentioned. A typical, familiar, suspicious Pheu Thai comment to save face...

The statement is consistent with the data collected on Thai suicides. I made this point several days ago when people were making false statements.

Do you know which province has the highest rate of suicide is in Thailand? Brace yourself because it is contrary to every myth that foreigners have. It is Lumphon province. It's where fruit is grown, and where there are several industrial estates and cogeneration power plants. It is not a province known for its rice. In fact, rice is grown for domestic consumption. Maize is the primary grain crop.

The reality is that suicide rates in Thailand started their significant reduction in 2001, plateauing in 2006. Do you know what period that coincides with? Had the rates instead increased, I would expect you and others would blame Thaksin. However, as the numbers were reduced, I suppose you should be singing the praises of Thaksin. What actually happened, was that mental health services became more accessible and the government embarked on a national strategy to deal with alcohol and illegal drug use. Coincidentally, there was an increase in suicide rates for males, especially adolescent males during the Aids crisis. It decreased as HIV treatment programs came into force. The suicide rate of Thailand has been fairly constant since 2006.

Thais were killing themselves long before the rice program, and they will continue to kill themselves long after it is dismantled. Farmers have been killing themselves for the past century without anyone playing the blame game. Suicide is a manifestation of mental illness. You and the other people who have not read the data, want to offer a simplistic explanation for what is historically a complex problem, because it serves as an opportunity to criticize the current government. Well if you want to criticize, ask why mental health budgets were not buttressed during the governments after 2005-2006.

[klauskunkel]

These were not suicides, the government murdered these farmers by proxy. The Mental Health Department's report's purpose is to absolve the government from guilt, but they fail utterly because the "expert" is an idiot.

[geriatrickid]

These were not suicides, the government murdered these farmers by proxy. The Mental Health Department's report's purpose is to absolve the government from guilt, but they fail utterly because the "expert" is an idiot.

Have you even bothered to read the data on suicide and its incidence in Thailand?

You call the doctor an idiot. Why? Because you didn't bother to read the data, or the WHO review?

Nothing that the doctor stated was contrary to the published reviews. Why don't you and the other self anointed epidemiologists go and read the data.

[sgiandubh69]

What an appalling response from this government agency. They have completely dismissed the very obvious fact that the financial woes for the farmers have been brought about by the governments failure to meets its own financial responsibilities.

In addition,, they have instructed non qualified and inexperienced leaders to provide counselling services.

A further example of a shower of jokers spouting off whilst their collective head is firmly buried in the sand. So typical.

[Stradavarius37]

while farmers with no money gets credit card, for the average expat that does not have a WP, it is as good as impossible, even with millions of savings in the bank, to get one ...

thainessssss

Because the thai farmer is not likely to do a runner and leave his balance unpaid, like the average expat is...

[Why ask]

As an MSc in Psychology, and that's not a Mongolian proverb, I believe Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn needs to go back to school and learn about Maslow's hierarchy, and how aggressive behaviour involves insulting all around you with inate fantasies. Then again, a simple kick in the teeth might knock some tenderness into the idiot. I'm not really sure this person is a qualified Dr (PhD that is). Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn's cognitive behaviour is nothing short of aggressive (usually implemented to try to gain something that is missing, like a brain in this case, or money!), although in social learning theory, agression is 'imitated' learning. I guess the kind doctor was appointed by Jatuporn then.

Disgraceful statements which need to be forced, officially, to be retracted, or placarded all over the media.

[realenglish1]

Another attempt to cover up their mia culpa. Informal debts are the reason for suicde. DAAAA they are owed money by the government for their rice. The government does not pay them. They need money to survive. Normal channels will not lend them money so they have to go to informal loan sharks as they have no choice

This is such a sorry lot of politicians on both sides

[The Deerhunter]

Farmers get into debt and suicide all over the world. It is common in every farming country. Farmers also suffer from mental illness caused by stress, loneliness and financial worries. The report is correct!!!! No arguments.

However....... Please publish how many (or not) of the 13 or more farmers in the current spate of suicides were people under financial stress from lack of rice payments from YL's rice scheme/scam at the time of suicide. Without this info the "stress from informal debts" is meaningless in the current context. Did the rice scheme cause any, all or none of these deaths?

[klauskunkel]

These were not suicides, the government murdered these farmers by proxy. The Mental Health Department's report's purpose is to absolve the government from guilt, but they fail utterly because the "expert" is an idiot.

Have you even bothered to read the data on suicide and its incidence in Thailand?

You call the doctor an idiot. Why? Because you didn't bother to read the data, or the WHO review?

Nothing that the doctor stated was contrary to the published reviews. Why don't you and the other self anointed epidemiologists go and read the data.

from the article:

total of 13 suicides: 9 because of debt. 3 because of disease. 1 no clue at all.

The "expert" said (paraphrasing}: main factors for suicide are mental Health problems, disease and family problems. Economic problems also.

Obviously, in the cases of the farmers, the absolute main reason is debt, no money. And not mental health or disease. The "expert" is whitewashing the government by trying to obscure and minimize the effect of debt.

as for being a self anointed epidemiologist, I take that, and I think it is better than what the government did by creating this epidemic. And it is also better than having been adopted as Dr. Thaksin's geriatric kid.

[hellodolly]

Lets see! Large informal debts have absolutely nothing to do with their inability to repay due to the rice scheme. Flailing health means excessive medical bills so their inability to pay those are not a factor as well. What a joke this mental health report is making.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If the mental health field in Thailand had any credibility it just lost it.

But the important thing is Yingluck is innocent. She can sleep good at night.

[Diablo Bob]

Here is an example why every western country does not recognise anything from Thailand to do with medical, mental health or any other educational institutions... probably one of the most epic failures, to go with a host of others, in coming out with a factual investigation. Absolute garbage... and the blind trying to manipulate a fast awaking and seeing public.

Why is it that UC Berkley, Stanford, UCLA & USC medical schools send their eye doctors to Thailand to study Lasik surgery?

Because Thailand is using technology that won't be introduced into the US for a few more years...... they are one of the world leaders.

Oh, Thailand also has a fantastic reputation with Plastic surgeons....... they have done some amazing work.

[Why ask]

while farmers with no money gets credit card, for the average expat that does not have a WP, it is as good as impossible, even with millions of savings in the bank, to get one ...

thainessssss

If you've got millions in the bank, why would you want a credit card?

And why not get a WP? Or here illegally..

And: What the heck does a Thai in Thailand having a credit card, money or no money, have to do with a farang with lots of money and no credit card?

If you've got millions in the bank, in a Thai bank, they'd throw a credit card at you... or did you never ask?

[hellodolly]

These were not suicides, the government murdered these farmers by proxy. The Mental Health Department's report's purpose is to absolve the government from guilt, but they fail utterly because the "expert" is an idiot.

Have you even bothered to read the data on suicide and its incidence in Thailand?

You call the doctor an idiot. Why? Because you didn't bother to read the data, or the WHO review?

Nothing that the doctor stated was contrary to the published reviews. Why don't you and the other self anointed epidemiologists go and read the data.

from the article:

total of 13 suicides: 9 because of debt. 3 because of disease. 1 no clue at all.

The "expert" said (paraphrasing}: main factors for suicide are mental Health problems, disease and family problems. Economic problems also.

Obviously, in the cases of the farmers, the absolute main reason is debt, no money. And not mental health or disease. The "expert" is whitewashing the government by trying to obscure and minimize the effect of debt.

as for being a self anointed epidemiologist, I take that, and I think it is better than what the government did by creating this epidemic. And it is also better than having been adopted as Dr. Thaksin's geriatric kid.

Well they got one right. No clue at all. About 7 1/2% right.

Or should I make that 7 1/2% honest.

[Why ask]

Here is an example why every western country does not recognise anything from Thailand to do with medical, mental health or any other educational institutions... probably one of the most epic failures, to go with a host of others, in coming out with a factual investigation. Absolute garbage... and the blind trying to manipulate a fast awaking and seeing public.

Why is it that UC Berkley, Stanford, UCLA & USC medical schools send their eye doctors to Thailand to study Lasik surgery?

Because Thailand is using technology that won't be introduced into the US for a few more years...... they are one of the world leaders.

Oh, Thailand also has a fantastic reputation with Plastic surgeons....... they have done some amazing work.

I second that! Plus, most good doctors at hospitals, albeit in Bangkok where they are better paid (and that's what they studied for), have studied in the US or the UK.

In addition, the current scientific investigations occuring at Chula, Mahidol, Khon Kaen and King Monkut's Uni are way ahead of what's happening in many places deemed the best in the world. Marstar, your opinion is garbage..... and manipulates only your own perception.

[samjaidee]

If the article wasn't so obviously written for the PTP it might be excused as something written by a first year psych. student. It is professionally incompetent and demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding about suicide and mental health in general. How demeaning, and ignorant of both the farmers who died and the grief now being experienced by their families.

Hi Tim,

I happen to be a first year psychology student. I can't quite see the connection between the article and studying psychology. Would you care to elaborate? Are you suggesting that I am likely to have a complete lack of understanding of suicide and mental health because I'm a psychology student?

You could have chosen a more appropriate simile.

[hellodolly]

Ahhhh, after re-reading the article I could be mistaken for an April fool. They demagogued us.

Arguments unrelated to a discussion

Unrelated facts — bringing unrelated facts that sound in favor of the speaker's agenda. For example, marking a vegetable or cereal product as "cholesterol free". Since cholesterol is only found in animal products, such labeling does not actually distinguish this product from similar competitors.

In this case looking at this article and keep in mind that there have been 9 suicides directly related to the rice scheme; Notice the bits underlined.

Department deputy director-general Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn said the investigation found that nine of them had committed suicide because they owed a large number of informal debts. Three committed suicide as they had been suffering from congenital diseases. The remaining farmer's suicide could not be linked to the rice-pledging scheme.

The underlined bit is the bit we are interested in. This is the nine farmers that have committed suicide due to debts. All 9 suicides in the links above and after interviews with the families show they refer to the rice scheme and having no money as the reason for suicide. We all know they borrowed off loan sharks (informal debt) so this is truth. The other bits are for the gullible trying to get us off the root truth and bewilder us with UNRELATED FACTS.

Three committed suicide as they had been suffering from congenital diseases. I am sure they are correct. We knew this had nothing to do with the rice scheme.

The remaining farmer's suicide could not be linked to the rice-pledging scheme. Remaining? What 10, 50, 100? Either way you are still correct. We knew this had nothing to do with the rice scheme.

This allows the govt dept to shift the blame away from them while still slipping the truth in there.

They nearly got me on this one.

Sorry Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn, I'm not that gullible.

Well you may be right but

Three committed suicide as they had been suffering from congenital diseases. I am sure they are correct. We knew this had nothing to do with the rice scheme.

Those three if they had been paid could have maybe received the medical attention to resolve the congenital diseases problem. We can not say they were not linked to the rice scam

[hellodolly]

It's always useful when state agencies release rubbish like this. Shows you who's payroll they're on.

There's probably the odd numpty out there that will believe it but overall such statements just undermine the credibility of the agency.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Unfortunately given the Thai level of education which does not include the ability to reason just accept many of them will accept the report.

Case in point look at the picture of the rice farmer there to support the PTP.

[Lupatria]

“Mental Health Dept claims investigation shows farmers killed themselves for other reasons.”

Economic problems caused by large informal debts was also a main factor leading them to commit suicide," Panpimol said.

And the cause of large debts is not the issue here? How many farmers commited suicide in just a few weeks in the years before?

Is it confirmed, the quote was made by Department deputy director-general Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn, or was it made by a patient of one of their notorious institutions?

[MaxLee]

WRONG,.... it looks like this: IF certain rich kids commit murder, THAT is called mental health problems.... free of charge XXXX-cused

ask Moo ham and Red Bull driver

[geriatrickid]

What an appalling response from this government agency. They have completely dismissed the very obvious fact that the financial woes for the farmers have been brought about by the governments failure to meets its own financial responsibilities.

In addition,, they have instructed non qualified and inexperienced leaders to provide counselling services.

A further example of a shower of jokers spouting off whilst their collective head is firmly buried in the sand. So typical.

The appalling response is from you. You have not read the data, nor the study, but you are dismissing the data.

What is typical, is the ignorance. The data is consistent with the data from the past decade.

[soalbundy]

worried sick and depressed because you haven't been paid and as a consequence are deeply in debt could be classed as a mental illness i suppose so they are right in a way.

Nobody is going to go broke overestimating the ruthlessness of this government.

[hellodolly]

""We found that the main risk factors for committing suicide were mental-health problems, physical ailments and family problems. Economic problems caused by large informal debts was also a main factor leading them to commit suicide," Panpimol said."

Thank you for your diagnosis, Dr. Panpimol. I also have a mental problem that will make me suicide because of the crap that you mentioned. A typical, familiar, suspicious Pheu Thai comment to save face...

The statement is consistent with the data collected on Thai suicides. I made this point several days ago when people were making false statements.

Do you know which province has the highest rate of suicide is in Thailand? Brace yourself because it is contrary to every myth that foreigners have. It is Lumphon province. It's where fruit is grown, and where there are several industrial estates and cogeneration power plants. It is not a province known for its rice. In fact, rice is grown for domestic consumption. Maize is the primary grain crop.

The reality is that suicide rates in Thailand started their significant reduction in 2001, plateauing in 2006. Do you know what period that coincides with? Had the rates instead increased, I would expect you and others would blame Thaksin. However, as the numbers were reduced, I suppose you should be singing the praises of Thaksin. What actually happened, was that mental health services became more accessible and the government embarked on a national strategy to deal with alcohol and illegal drug use. Coincidentally, there was an increase in suicide rates for males, especially adolescent males during the Aids crisis. It decreased as HIV treatment programs came into force. The suicide rate of Thailand has been fairly constant since 2006.

Thais were killing themselves long before the rice program, and they will continue to kill themselves long after it is dismantled. Farmers have been killing themselves for the past century without anyone playing the blame game. Suicide is a manifestation of mental illness. You and the other people who have not read the data, want to offer a simplistic explanation for what is historically a complex problem, because it serves as an opportunity to criticize the current government. Well if you want to criticize, ask why mental health budgets were not buttressed during the governments after 2005-2006.

Have you got a point in all that rambling. it is rice farmers committing suicide. Not fruit growers.

Well if you want to criticize, ask why mental health budgets were not buttressed during the governments after 2005-2006.

For the most part they were Thaksin led governments. The Abhist led government was a week coalition government. Hence not able to do a lot. Yet it was able to stop the rise in corruption and given the time Thaksin has had could maybe have done some thing about the mental health issue in Thailand. We will never know.

How ever we might wonder about the mental health of the people he hired in an ill thought out coupe attempt. Perhaps he wanted the mental health issue to stay stagnate. I don't know and neither do you.

But it gives us a big insight as to who has been responsible. If you have been keeping up you will know that the current government has done nothing to improve the regular medical situation. They have had the Doctors and the Nurses telling them this.

[Crushdepth]

""We found that the main risk factors for committing suicide were mental-health problems, physical ailments and family problems. Economic problems caused by large informal debts was also a main factor leading them to commit suicide," Panpimol said."

Thank you for your diagnosis, Dr. Panpimol. I also have a mental problem that will make me suicide because of the crap that you mentioned. A typical, familiar, suspicious Pheu Thai comment to save face...

The statement is consistent with the data collected on Thai suicides. I made this point several days ago when people were making false statements.

Do you know which province has the highest rate of suicide is in Thailand? Brace yourself because it is contrary to every myth that foreigners have. It is Lumphon province. It's where fruit is grown, and where there are several industrial estates and cogeneration power plants. It is not a province known for its rice. In fact, rice is grown for domestic consumption. Maize is the primary grain crop.

The reality is that suicide rates in Thailand started their significant reduction in 2001, plateauing in 2006. Do you know what period that coincides with? Had the rates instead increased, I would expect you and others would blame Thaksin. However, as the numbers were reduced, I suppose you should be singing the praises of Thaksin. What actually happened, was that mental health services became more accessible and the government embarked on a national strategy to deal with alcohol and illegal drug use. Coincidentally, there was an increase in suicide rates for males, especially adolescent males during the Aids crisis. It decreased as HIV treatment programs came into force. The suicide rate of Thailand has been fairly constant since 2006.

Thais were killing themselves long before the rice program, and they will continue to kill themselves long after it is dismantled. Farmers have been killing themselves for the past century without anyone playing the blame game. Suicide is a manifestation of mental illness. You and the other people who have not read the data, want to offer a simplistic explanation for what is historically a complex problem, because it serves as an opportunity to criticize the current government. Well if you want to criticize, ask why mental health budgets were not buttressed during the governments after 2005-2006.

Misdirection. You are talking about general trends. This article is about a specific government programme, and a specific group of 13 farmers who killed themselves after being deprived of an income and forced to borrow from loan sharks. I presume you have some concept as to the kind of practices this may entail.

It is not only the mentally ill that kill themselves, that is also misdirection. Even if they were, do you claim that the rice scheme could not have been the factor that tipped them over the edge?

When are you going to come clean and say "I was wrong about the rice scheme"?

Sent from somewhere in the Pacific

[aimbc]

I have to admit, I don't know much about suicide rate among farmers. But reading through the post, several TV poster affirm this to be true. And most have financial burden as a factor to their suicide. Even non farmers like financial traders commit suicide when the market tanked. So the common factor is financial problem.

And for the Health Dept to say that is not the major factor, is so wrong and evil. The workers at the health department don't know how hard the farmers have to wait to cash in thier crop. They get a monthly pay check. This farmers have to wait several months for the crop to be harvested. Plus waiting for the money to be paid to them. That adds extra months in between getting paid. So I would venture to say that these farmers have not had any ncome comng for over 9 months at least.

How many people can wait for more than 9 months on payment either from work or benefits. Most can't. Maybe the dr should put themselves under that stress and they will come to find out that they won't have that nice home or car much longer. Yes not getting paid adds to the stress. So it did play a major role. Which proofs that this article is meant to white wash this administration of its responsibilty for the death of the farmers. This is the lowest form of abuse of power, yet again by this administration.

The Dr should have their license suspended for making such statement. I will bet that there will be a whole slew of medcal professional disputing the govt statement. Nothing is not tainted by this govt. How sad.