wine; shortages of quality wines and price increases

[raro]

let's discuss wine here, ok? For beef feel free to open another thread.

[Mudcrab]

By international standards all Thai produced wines suck. If you like them then you would not know the difference.

If you like them...then you like them. What's your point, apart from wine snobbery?

A Van Gough might sell for millions - but I like my granddaughters pictures. Each to his own, its all a matter of personal taste.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Mudcrab

[Ticketmaster]

There is NO IMPORT TAX on Australian wine. Over much argument, it joined the Australian/Thai Free Trade Pact a year ago, or was supposed to. In any event, a check of the current tariff database shows he tarif at a measly 4%. I was excited about the prospect of inexpensive Australian wines here; I was also bitterly disappointed. So at least for Australian wine, don't talk about the tax. That's bullshit. The money is going into a Thai pocket.

TAU : FTA Thai-Australia : Detail

Heading Subheading Description Duty Rate Notification Start Date End Date Electronic Permit ad valorem rate % specific rate Unit Baht 22.04 2204.211100 - - - - Of an alcoholic strength by volume not exceeding 15% vol 4 - - Thai-Australia2012 01/01/2014 31/12/2014 Click for details

EDIT: Well, I see that the Thai Visa Forum does allow a cut and paste either. Sure could use a decent upgrade. In any event, see the pdf.

Australian Wine.pdf

Edited February 21, 2014 by Ticketmaster

[jim cortesos]

Yes,to bad for that,Thailand would be so much more of a "paradise" if we could buy good inexpensive wine here.....I seldom buy wine in CM since I am practically swimming in it on Vancouver Island, I make sure to get my fill of fine reds and then spirit back several bottles........ there is always the outside chance that the Thai-wine industry will have an enlightened-leap forward from vinegar to fruity vine....

Same with me.I love wine but have to struggle with wine living in Bangkok part of the year the rest here in San Francisco.I have to go with the box of wines 4 to 5 liters best value.Big C and Tescoe Lotus.SE ASIA is not a big wine producer .The wines in box I buy there are imported from Chile/South Africa/Argentina so so quality and very expensive.What are you going to do? My life in Thailand is so productive and nice. I just have to give up my drinking habits..until I return to California. First thing I do when I get back is to open up a bottle of wine just for revenge.

[jim cortesos]

I hate waiting for the 11 am sales opening or rushing up to the 2 pm cut off.Very annoying! Seems like I spend a lot time dwelling around this dry state of affairs..

[thailandbeachisland]

Maybe Thailand just misses quality customers who know what they are talking about ? Obviously it means noone here <3

[raro]

There is NO IMPORT TAX on Australian wine. Over much argument, it joined the Australian/Thai Free Trade Pact a year ago, or was supposed to. In any event, a check of the current tariff database shows he tarif at a measly 4%. I was excited about the prospect of inexpensive Australian wines here; I was also bitterly disappointed. So at least for Australian wine, don't talk about the tax. That's bullshit. The money is going into a Thai pocket.

TAU : FTA Thai-Australia : Detail

Heading Subheading Description Duty Rate Notification Start Date End Date Electronic Permit ad valorem rate % specific rate Unit Baht 22.04 2204.211100 - - - - Of an alcoholic strength by volume not exceeding 15% vol 4 - - Thai-Australia2012 01/01/2014 31/12/2014 Click for details

EDIT: Well, I see that the Thai Visa Forum does allow a cut and paste either. Sure could use a decent upgrade. In any event, see the pdf.

There are indeed no import duties on Australian wine. However, the taxes are imposed on any wine, FTA or not, locally produced or imported. Taxes are INSIDE the country. DUTIES are imposed on goods upon import.

And yes, the taxes are far higher than the duties.

[raro]

several off topic posts as well as a pissing contest deleted.

[arcturaz]

Hi Donald Thank you for the education I really do appreciate it. I do not claim to be a Beef expert. However I am a food expert and despite what you say the KU and Northern beef products do taste better then the pure Brahman's i've had. Why would that be? Can you please give me more information about Pure Beef, where they get their supply from. How can I contact them? Much appreciated.

[arcturaz]

PS Thank you for all the advice everyone I am new to posting - I will avoid going off topic in the future. Just seems to me Wine and Beef go together so well :-) - And yes the Taxes are too high and yes the system sucks in some ways; however we are here and living beautiful lives. There is always a trade off in any arrangement. Thank God I can import most luxury goods online now... hurrah for Ebay. Sad to say wine is rather heavy and the shipping kills the equation

[neilrob]

By international standards all Thai produced wines suck. If you like them then you would not know the difference.

This is such a combination of ignorance and arrogance that it should not be left without a response. I know of no exceptional Thai wines. However, Thailand does produce some quite good wines. Just look at the some of the better Monsoon Valley wines. These have won medals, including gold, in international competitions. The very well known wine critic, Robert Parker, has rated several in the mid-80s, which translates as well above average. Maybe Mr. Battles thinks that Robert Parker does "not know the difference". I suggest trying some of the Monsoon Valley Flagship range before making such unjustified judgments.

Somewhat surprisingly, the main market for the better Thai wines is not in Thailand (where they do not really compete well on price because of the taxes), but the export market. particularly in the US and UK, where they are mainly sold through Thai restaurants---"Thai wine for Thai food" is a slogan used by one of the companies.

[neilrob]

Bottles and boxes of Mont Clair state that that it is "blended" here in Thailand even though it is supposed to be a South African wine. I have never understood that. Do they ship in the fruit juice and then alcohol is added? There is a story such as that but I simply don't know.

Can anyone shed any light on this please?

Boxed Mont Clair is made from grape juice imported from South Africa. This is then blended with other fruit juices---for the red I think mainly blended with pomegranate juice---for the white, mainly blended with pineapple juice before being made into wine. This information used to be on the labels, but only in Thai. The advantage of adding other fruit juices is that it then becomes a fruit wine, not a grape wine, for tax purposes and is taxed lower. You will see that the strip which is put over the top of the bottle or on the box showing tax paid is not the blue one used for grape wine, but an orange one.

[raro]

One more off topic post deleted. If you have any (pun coming!) beef with this act of moderation please pm support.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[arcturaz]

at least I know the difference between beef and pork

[sharktooth]

Bottles and boxes of Mont Clair state that that it is "blended" here in Thailand even though it is supposed to be a South African wine. I have never understood that. Do they ship in the fruit juice and then alcohol is added? There is a story such as that but I simply don't know.

Can anyone shed any light on this please?

Boxed Mont Clair is made from grape juice imported from South Africa. This is then blended with other fruit juices---for the red I think mainly blended with pomegranate juice---for the white, mainly blended with pineapple juice before being made into wine. This information used to be on the labels, but only in Thai. The advantage of adding other fruit juices is that it then becomes a fruit wine, not a grape wine, for tax purposes and is taxed lower. You will see that the strip which is put over the top of the bottle or on the box showing tax paid is not the blue one used for grape wine, but an orange one.

That would explain why it is fikking mingin!

[howzat]

That trade agreement with Australia meant no duty on Aussie Wines . Not see the prices come down.

[GrantSmith]

By international standards all Thai produced wines suck. If you like them then you would not know the difference.

I suggest you take a look at this website...

http://www.top100wines.com/wines/wine-search.asp

Plug in 'Thailand'

Then...

Review who the judges are...

Whilst I personally don't know Nikki, I know plenty of people (back home) that do and speak very highly of her ability as a winemaker..

Her wines are quite good, I'm quite impartial to the Sakuna Rosé (among others) myself. Prices are quite reasonable.

Monsoon Valley? Getting quite a decent reputation, I personally think they're overpriced (as do others in the industry) but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Best you take your beef (sorry raro I used your pun) elsewhere...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GrantSmith]

That trade agreement with Australia meant no duty on Aussie Wines . Not see the prices come down.

Not quite no duty, still 4%, doesn't mean you'll see a softening in the price. You will see more of the better Australian wine entering the market though...

The import duty is really half the battle, the excise tax (as raro alluded to earlier) is the kicker...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Bottles and boxes of Mont Clair state that that it is "blended" here in Thailand even though it is supposed to be a South African wine. I have never understood that. Do they ship in the fruit juice and then alcohol is added? There is a story such as that but I simply don't know.

Can anyone shed any light on this please?

Boxed Mont Clair is made from grape juice imported from South Africa. This is then blended with other fruit juices---for the red I think mainly blended with pomegranate juice---

Roselle, I believe. (Grajiab)

[jaideeguy]

The taxes and import duties combined are indeed now well beyond 400%. If you do the backwards calculation on a 500 Baht bottle you will find out that the bottle costs you more than the content. To get a half way decent wine you have to shell out about 800 Baht up, for qualities like DOC or Auslese (a German denomination) also 1,200 Baht and more.

The wines sold until recently at a fairly low price were most likely old stock as the taxes are imposed upon import. Once sold, they are gone and can only be replaced at a higher price for the same product.

At least 400%, as we used to get bottles of Penfoils [bin#??] for 400thb up at Tachelek Myanmar duty free and the very same bottle at Rimping retailed at 1,600THB.

Never understood the logic in over taxing a relatively low % alcohol, when they let 40%alcohol imported hard spirits into the country for small taxes.

[neilrob]

The taxes and import duties combined are indeed now well beyond 400%. If you do the backwards calculation on a 500 Baht bottle you will find out that the bottle costs you more than the content. To get a half way decent wine you have to shell out about 800 Baht up, for qualities like DOC or Auslese (a German denomination) also 1,200 Baht and more.

The wines sold until recently at a fairly low price were most likely old stock as the taxes are imposed upon import. Once sold, they are gone and can only be replaced at a higher price for the same product.

At least 400%, as we used to get bottles of Penfoils [bin#??] for 400thb up at Tachelek Myanmar duty free and the very same bottle at Rimping retailed at 1,600THB.

Never understood the logic in over taxing a relatively low % alcohol, when they let 40%alcohol imported hard spirits into the country for small taxes.

Tax is high, but not as bad as all that! Maybe that particular wine is subject to a lot of profiteering.

I have attached a table from the Thai Excise Tax Dept., which explains the tax rates after the recent tax rise. As you can see, tax rates vary substantially according to whether the wine has a wholesale price above or below 600B. For a wine below 600B wholesale, with 14% alcohol, I calculate that excise tax will be 169B. Import duty is 60% + 7% VAT (or maybe less in the case it comes from a country with a customs treaty?) Assuming a bottle with wholesale value (excluding all taxes) of 200B, this means just over 300B of tax.

Before the recent tax rise you could even find wines in Thailand which were cheaper in Thailand than in Europe. Now, this is not the case, but the multiple is not that great. A Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon which I am fond of sold in Rimping at 333B six months ago (it was a great deal and sold out fast whenever it was in stock!). You could find that same wine sold by an online seller in Europe at 360B. Now it costs 499B in Rimping.

Edited March 13, 2014 by neilrob

[4x4 CNX]

When I want to buy a good wine at the right price I go to Buonissimo in Chang Klan Rd.

However, I can confirm that from few months ago the import duty rise quite a lot make the price much higher now compare with last year.