arcturaz Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have lived in Thailand for over 12 years and have purchased wine on a weekly basis. In late 2013 I begin to notice Serious stock shortages in all of the major suppliers in Chiang Mai (Rimping, Macro, 7-11 (joking fellas 7-11:-). Also unless my fading eyesight is deceiving me there has been a significant increase in prices (just one example would be the Aglianico del Vulture from Italy raised from 595B to 725B, St Helena Vintage from 525 to 595 etc.,etc., ad naseum). SO WHAT GIVES? Is this due to the excise Dept hosting sleep ins or chain supply issues. Are recent tax hikes in effect or is this prices gouging by our beloved retailers? Just want to know the extent and depth of the problem. I like wine but now Thailand is starting to resemble that overtaxing behemoth, Indonesia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The Tax went up a few weeks back, didn't it?Chances are they deliberately held back existing (tax paid) stock so they could put the prices up on that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaleySabai Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes,to bad for that,Thailand would be so much more of a "paradise" if we could buy good inexpensive wine here.....I seldom buy wine in CM since I am practically swimming in it on Vancouver Island, I make sure to get my fill of fine reds and then spirit back several bottles........ there is always the outside chance that the Thai-wine industry will have an enlightened-leap forward from vinegar to fruity vine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microwave Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I've enjoyed the strawberry wine found in Samoeng. The supermarket @ Robinson's stocked Thai strawberry wine last I was there which was about 2 weeks ago. 180 baht a bottle @ Robinson's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MMan Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thailand wine prices and taxes are a pet peeve of mine. The weakening of the Thai Baht is also impacting price I'm sure. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkles Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The opportunity to create a viable wine industry in Thailand has always been here and I'm not talking about the "fruit" wines which are the 170 baht a bottle "Fresco" type.Having spoken to a few wine growers they seem very reluctant to use overseas expertise about how to get a wine industry off the ground. The climate here in the north would be ideal and its would be a huge user of labour. I know that several Australian growers, who have the knowledge and motivation to make it happen,and have indicated they would like to float a joint venture have already approached several small wineries but it so far has come to naught. In Australia, I think from memory the Government at the time, gave growers a tax break and the industry never looked back. We, and more importantly, Thai people, with vision, live in hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcturaz Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes thanks for all the input - I would raise my glass; alas it is (P Townsend-like) "Empty" ;-))) I did my own research several years back and it seems that Viticulture has progressed exponentially in the past decade. Due to new fungus resistant hybrids it is possible to grow real world class wines here in the tropics. And YES the expertise for this resides primarily (though not exclusively) in the West or Australia. However I think the primeval Thai tax imposed on locally grown (an offshoot of selected interests and their never ending obsession with control and conquer business tactics) places equal tax burdens on locally grown as well as imported Wine Products (so much for stimulating local industry). I think the weakening of the Bhat is a factor but that cannot explain the massive increase in price. Probably it is a perfect storm combination of retroactively applied new taxes, price gouging, and other arcane factors that favor certain individuals or groups. I am starting to have a hard time justifying my wine purchases to my wife. I used to say well; 'Hunny Perfume costs a lot more then wine'; but now that is getting increasingly difficult to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mapguy Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 Think about the current governmental fiscal dilemma a bit. It suggests that some quality rice wine might be an answer to many problems ! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ticketmaster Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 The only reasonable explanation for the insane increases is the unmitigated greed of the importers. What is it, something like 95% of all alcoholic beverage imports are controlled by a single family cartel? Yes tax has gone up -- a little. Yes, the exchange rates effect the prices of imports -- some. But when a 3 liter box cabernet jumps from 700 baht to 1,200 baht, something stinks. And don't kid yourself; There is no wine shortage. With all the new producers in so many countries, the world is floating in it. I was buying wine once a week. I stopped. There are limits to what one will pay for a "cheap wine." Whiskey and soda have taken center stage. I miss the wine with dinner, but I am not going to grease my a$$ and bend over t get it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticketmaster Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The opportunity to create a viable wine industry in Thailand has always been here and I'm not talking about the "fruit" wines which are the 170 baht a bottle "Fresco" type.Having spoken to a few wine growers they seem very reluctant to use overseas expertise about how to get a wine industry off the ground. The climate here in the north would be ideal and its would be a huge user of labour. I know that several Australian growers, who have the knowledge and motivation to make it happen,and have indicated they would like to float a joint venture have already approached several small wineries but it so far has come to naught. In Australia, I think from memory the Government at the time, gave growers a tax break and the industry never looked back. We, and more importantly, Thai people, with vision, live in hope. A winery, maybe, but no vineyard. All agricultural operations by foreigners or joint venture with Thais are strictly prohibited by Thai law. That's exactly why you cannot get decent local beef. The Thai beef industry could support all of SE Asia were a joint venture allowed with a Western producer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldBattles Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 To the best of my knowledge, there is 420% tax on imported wines. This was done years ago by Chuan Government to slow down competing politicians like Thaksin from having big expensive wine parties. The result was that the tax available then was cut in half. For countries that produce quality wines they can sell in many places in the world without shipping to a market restricted banana republic. For the beef cattle industry everything has to be bred from the Brahman so you can't expect tender quality beef grown in Thailand. The DNA determines the beef quality to a certain extent and it sure isn't in the Brahman. In order to grain feed imported cattle it could cost a fortune and people would not pay the price. Roadside feeding in Esan Nakorn Patom by Thai French is a lot cheeper. Thais don't care about quality beef when it is ground up to make larp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdw512 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 For all of you wine lovers out there the Red Cross Diplomatic Fair (Mar 1&2) at the Siam Paragon top floor will be a good chance to purchase great wine at reasonable prices. I couldn't believe the prices (imported beer as well) last year at the American booth. Worth the try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yes thanks for all the input - I would raise my glass; alas it is (P Townsend-like) "Empty" ;-))) I did my own research several years back and it seems that Viticulture has progressed exponentially in the past decade. Due to new fungus resistant hybrids it is possible to grow real world class wines here in the tropics. And YES the expertise for this resides primarily (though not exclusively) in the West or Australia. However I think the primeval Thai tax imposed on locally grown (an offshoot of selected interests and their never ending obsession with control and conquer business tactics) places equal tax burdens on locally grown as well as imported Wine Products (so much for stimulating local industry). I think the weakening of the Bhat is a factor but that cannot explain the massive increase in price. Probably it is a perfect storm combination of retroactively applied new taxes, price gouging, and other arcane factors that favor certain individuals or groups. I am starting to have a hard time justifying my wine purchases to my wife. I used to say well; 'Hunny Perfume costs a lot more then wine'; but now that is getting increasingly difficult to say. you mean you use honey first, then wine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suradit69 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The only reasonable explanation for the insane increases is the unmitigated greed of the importers. What is it, something like 95% of all alcoholic beverage imports are controlled by a single family cartel? Yes tax has gone up -- a little. Yes, the exchange rates effect the prices of imports -- some. But when a 3 liter box cabernet jumps from 700 baht to 1,200 baht, something stinks. And don't kid yourself; There is no wine shortage. With all the new producers in so many countries, the world is floating in it. I was buying wine once a week. I stopped. There are limits to what one will pay for a "cheap wine." Whiskey and soda have taken center stage. I miss the wine with dinner, but I am not going to grease my a$$ and bend over t get it. "But when a 3 liter box cabernet ..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagwain Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Funny this week I found it hard to get my quaffing wine in Pattaya (Montclair red) Price has gone up when I can get it 10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurkster Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 little off topic but Empty Glass is a great album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbbooboo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 yes I wondered a couple of weeks ago when I bought an Australian chardonnay 2009 at the cost of 585 baht(approx. $17AUD). I'm fairly sure the price used to be around 400 baht Someone is sure making a profit and I don't think its the shop owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrahamzvi Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yes,to bad for that,Thailand would be so much more of a "paradise" if we could buy good inexpensive wine here.....I seldom buy wine in CM since I am practically swimming in it on Vancouver Island, I make sure to get my fill of fine reds and then spirit back several bottles........ there is always the outside chance that the Thai-wine industry will have an enlightened-leap forward from vinegar to fruity vine.... Are you certain you have tried all Thai wines. I know of some that are absolutely excellent, even by universal standards. Unfortunately the good ones (for example Chateou de Loi, or Monsoon) are quite expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbamboo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The opportunity to create a viable wine industry in Thailand has always been here and I'm not talking about the "fruit" wines which are the 170 baht a bottle "Fresco" type.Having spoken to a few wine growers they seem very reluctant to use overseas expertise about how to get a wine industry off the ground. The climate here in the north would be ideal and its would be a huge user of labour. I know that several Australian growers, who have the knowledge and motivation to make it happen,and have indicated they would like to float a joint venture have already approached several small wineries but it so far has come to naught. In Australia, I think from memory the Government at the time, gave growers a tax break and the industry never looked back. We, and more importantly, Thai people, with vision, live in hope. Maybe the wine industry has never taken off here because most Thais are such good Buddhists and therefore don't drink. But for those of us who aren't restricted by religious precepts the price of wine here in relation to local earnings is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcturaz Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Footnote; I visited the Rimping Airport branch of the Wine Connection today (Avoid the WC store at the new Central mall on the Super Highway as prices are inflated...rental space?), they were in the process of unloading a rather sizable shipment, shelves looked well stocked and prices were (EUPHENISM ALERT!) NORMAL... (based on memory from my last visit in middle 2013). According to the manager the last tax increase was in Oct 2013 and he was not aware of any 'market shortage'. He said they import directly and do not buy from any of the wholesalers in Thailand. Now this GLARING difference might tie in with what ticketmaster was saying about a cartel. Perhaps WC is not in the same ecconomic bed as the cartel. PS: Thai cattle are not %100 Brahman, they are a hybrid of Brahmin and French Charolai (most at least). Once had a nice long conversation with the director of Northern Farms here in CM. He told me the cross breed was neccessary due to climate, pathogens et al. Also I have done group taste tests (large scale BBQ'S) pitting the best available Australian cuts against Northern's and Northern won hands down repeatedly. Everyone agreed the Aussie cuts were more tender but far less flavorful. Go figga? PS #2: I believe Chateau de Loie is owned by a Frechman and he does run the accompanying vineyard, so how does the law about no agricultural ownership impact on this? Perhaps his wife owns the acerage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcturaz Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 When I refer to Thai cattle I meant steak grade, high quality. Sorry I should have clarified that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raro Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The taxes and import duties combined are indeed now well beyond 400%. If you do the backwards calculation on a 500 Baht bottle you will find out that the bottle costs you more than the content. To get a half way decent wine you have to shell out about 800 Baht up, for qualities like DOC or Auslese (a German denomination) also 1,200 Baht and more. The wines sold until recently at a fairly low price were most likely old stock as the taxes are imposed upon import. Once sold, they are gone and can only be replaced at a higher price for the same product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar God Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 A 200% import tax sounds closer to being the explanation, no matter where I look, Moët is at least twice the price as it costs in the US and Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebluewater Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Bottles and boxes of Mont Clair state that that it is "blended" here in Thailand even though it is supposed to be a South African wine. I have never understood that. Do they ship in the fruit juice and then alcohol is added? There is a story such as that but I simply don't know. Can anyone shed any light on this please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 But when a 3 liter box cabernet jumps from 700 baht to 1,200 baht, something stinks. " a 3 liter box cabernet ..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yes,to bad for that,Thailand would be so much more of a "paradise" if we could buy good inexpensive wine here.....I seldom buy wine in CM since I am practically swimming in it on Vancouver Island, I make sure to get my fill of fine reds and then spirit back several bottles........ there is always the outside chance that the Thai-wine industry will have an enlightened-leap forward from vinegar to fruity vine.... Quality Thai grown & produced wine??? Not hardly. You can't produce good wine in the tropics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raro Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 A 200% import tax sounds closer to being the explanation, no matter where I look, Moët is at least twice the price as it costs in the US and Europe. We do import wine and I can assure you that the import duties plus taxes combined are well over 400%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldBattles Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Trust me that Northern Farms are a bunch of BS. I have tried to work with them in the past and they want to charge more wholesale for their product that good products in Bangkok. There is only one reliable supplier of beef in Thailand and that is Beef Pro. I have raised many beef cattle and in the feedlots also.When you mix the Black Angus or the French Charlotte with the Brahman you still get Brahman quality. It makes no difference. This is a big farce. The mix comes from expensive imported seamen from overseas. Steak from Beef Pro tenderloin is ok but small sizes. Other steaks have to be mechanically tenderized in order to eat. This comes from 30 years of food business in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldBattles Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 By international standards all Thai produced wines suck. If you like them then you would not know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMKiwi Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The mix comes from expensive imported seamen from overseas. So they cant be Fillipino seamen then...... not too sure who these guys may be but I hope they have a valid work permit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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