Thai rice-plediging scheme: Farmers to be paid via issuance of public bonds

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

More of your rubbish, all aiming as usual at building a dishonest / twisted perception.

[Thait Spot]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

Not only are they upset that the farmers will be paid, they saw their grand dream fall apart in front of their eyes the real farmers of the central provinces realized they were playing into the hands of the anti government folks wanted no part of it and went home.

The government clearly stated they would meet with the farmers that were interested in getting paid for their rice, as they had met with the group around government house, that walked out of the meeting, bad move, If you need to pay farmers pay those that abide by the law and do not have a political agenda.

As it is clear all farmers will not be paid immediately, let those that have a political agenda be the last to be paid!

Cheers

Poor deluded soul.

If I were a vacuum cleaner salesman I'd make a bee line for your front door.

Can we wager a cold beer that no more than 20% of farmers will have been paid by 28th January 2014?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SOTIRIOS]

...the story changes all the time...

..the most important point is the initial funds for the 'scheme' disappeared...without explanation....

...the solution...under those circumstances....is to 'redirect more money into this scheme'.....???

[webfact]

Finance Ministry may issue bonds for money to pay farmers
By Digital Content



BANGKOK, Feb 22 – The caretaker government will issue bonds to raise money to pay farmers under the rice pledging scheme, according to caretaker Deputy Prime Minsiter Kittiratt Na-Ranong.

Mr Kittiratt, who is concurrently caretaker finance minister, said the law does not prohibit a caretaker government from issuing bonds which, if implemented, should take 7-8 weeks.

He said he believed small-time investors and the private sector would be interested in buying the government bonds as there are a lot of people who wanted to help farmers.

Mr Kittiratt insisted that the government has never instructed any state enterprises, whether the Airports of Thailand or the Government Pension Fund, to buy government bonds.

The government bonds, if issued, will be attractive to buyers and offer high interest, he said.

He called on opponents of rice subsidies, including two former finance ministers Thanong Bidaya and Thirachai Phuvanatnaranubala, to refrain from criticising the government over rice payments to farmers.

If not because of the disruptive protest movement over the last two months, the government would have already paid farmers, he said.

“Some people said it would be impossible to pay farmers.They have never reviewed what they had done during their administrations, including floating the baht. I don’t want to say too much,” he said.

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra did not appear in public for the third consecutive day yesterday but her close aide said she discussed with Cabinet members on the phone.

She is free from routine obligations on the weekend but she may travel upcountry next week, her aide said. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2014-02-22

[whybother]

Isn't issuing bonds that same as borrowing money? Loans have been rejected as illegal for a care-taker government to do, so why would this be different?

[maeab1]

No bonds

[Bocking]

.. the next cunning plan from PTP .. Magic Beans?

[lostinsurin]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

Not only are they upset that the farmers will be paid, they saw their grand dream fall apart in front of their eyes the real farmers of the central provinces realized they were playing into the hands of the anti government folks wanted no part of it and went home.

The government clearly stated they would meet with the farmers that were interested in getting paid for their rice, as they had met with the group around government house, that walked out of the meeting, bad move, If you need to pay farmers pay those that abide by the law and do not have a political agenda.

As it is clear all farmers will not be paid immediately, let those that have a political agenda be the last to be paid!

Cheers

Poor deluded soul.

If I were a vacuum cleaner salesman I'd make a bee line for your front door.

Can we wager a cold beer that no more than 20% of farmers will have been paid by 28th January 2014?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I could do with a vacuum cleaner, but I see you more as a second hand car type of sales person.

[Rob8891]

Didn't the farmers all go home having been promised they'd be paid next week?? Now the Gov't say that bonds will take 7-8 weeks to organise.

The Finance Ministry must be waving from the windows "Bye bye, kwais..... SUCKERS!"

[lostinsurin]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

More of your rubbish, all aiming as usual at building a dishonest / twisted perception.

So what's it going to be you like the story or you don't like the story?

[khwaibah]

"Finance Ministry may issue bonds for money to pay farmers"

Key word= MAY. Just more BS.

[lostinsurin]

Didn't the farmers all go home having been promised they'd be paid next week?? Now the Gov't say that bonds will take 7-8 weeks to organise.

The Finance Ministry must be waving from the windows "Bye bye, kwais..... SUCKERS!"

The article states the following;

"promised farmers owed more than Bt500,000 that they would be paid in six weeks. Those owed less than that would be paid next week".

So don't forget to chew the grass slowly.

[p_brownstone]

So the Up-country farmers who were turned around with a promise to be paid "next week" were clearly lied to - again!

As Kittiratt admits even if the Caretaker Government can legally issue Bonds - which is very doubtful - the process will take "7 - 8 weeks".

Patrick

[EyesWideOpen]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

Sadly that is probably so. The Thaksin puppets have not worked out so

well, guess the farmers have a poor learning curve.... In the future I guess

more moronic promises, 500 baht handed out, and POW , a new Thaksin

clone in power to continue the looting process....

[patjem]

Maybe they should try sell the bonds to Thaksin...... since they believe the bonds are such a great idea.

[petedk]

Didn't the farmers all go home having been promised they'd be paid next week?? Now the Gov't say that bonds will take 7-8 weeks to organise.

The Finance Ministry must be waving from the windows "Bye bye, kwais..... SUCKERS!"

I think we all knew that would happen.

Where on earth did the government plan to get the money from by next week.

Poor farmers believe anything the government says. Maybe they'll have another trip to Ayutayha in a couple of weeks time.

[EyesWideOpen]

Bond offering....hmmmmm. So the large commercial banks have wisely turned down

making loans to support the rice scam as they know it will be pouring money down a

rat hole. Now the government thinks small investors are going to step up to the plate

and hand over their money to the government in exchange for pieces of paper ???

I think not. So now when the farmers are not paid next week, they will then be back

in Bangkok REALLY PISSED.....

[bigbamboo]

If this hole the government keeps digging gets any bigger the entire country is going to disappear down it.

Edited February 22, 2014 by bigbamboo

[Red Snake]

I wonder if farangs can purchase these bonds? It would be a better rate than the banks offer. Plus we would be supporting the poor farmers you anti-government supporters care so much for. So what do you think buy some bonds to support our farmers, they deserve it.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Red Snake

[Thait Spot]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

Not only are they upset that the farmers will be paid, they saw their grand dream fall apart in front of their eyes the real farmers of the central provinces realized they were playing into the hands of the anti government folks wanted no part of it and went home.

The government clearly stated they would meet with the farmers that were interested in getting paid for their rice, as they had met with the group around government house, that walked out of the meeting, bad move, If you need to pay farmers pay those that abide by the law and do not have a political agenda.

As it is clear all farmers will not be paid immediately, let those that have a political agenda be the last to be paid!

Cheers

Poor deluded soul.

If I were a vacuum cleaner salesman I'd make a bee line for your front door.

Can we wager a cold beer that no more than 20% of farmers will have been paid by 28th January 2014?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I could do with a vacuum cleaner, but I see you more as a second hand car type of sales person.

But you won't take the bet?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

' Ongoing sales of rice ' so as usual with backs to the wall the government claims it's selling from the stockpiles.

No longer is it ' show us the money ' rather ' show us the contracts ' ( if they actually exist ).

Other countries now claiming Thailand is dumping rice on world market. Trying to involve WTO.

There is no Thai rice on the market so how can dumping occur? Meanwhile because of the lack of Thai rice on the international marketplace, rice prices are realizing all time highs benefiting countries like Mynamar. When Thai rice does get to the market, no doubt prices will fall but I don't think below reasonable and fair pricing levels. In other words, when Thai rice does get to the market in a "dribble out" strategy, it should realize substantial proceeds. Granted some people want to see Thailand fail on its sales so as to further disgrace the government but what then of the farmers? Is there no shame to which parties seek to interfer with the government rice sales and payments to farmers just to advance their own political agendas?

[Goat Roper]

If this hole the government keeps digging gets any bigger the entire country is going to disappear down it.

Something is very wrong, this last group of farmers that spent three days to come to Bangkok and were sent back in one day with their tails between their legs. Of course this was all accomplished in part by another of Thaksin's lapdogs Barnhan. I do try to keep up but I am at a total loss as to where this is all heading.

Floating bonds is not a short term deal when you start from zero, it will take a few months to raise enough money to pay these farmers and the success largely depends on the public investors. I cannot imagine this scheme will be anywhere near successful, smoke, mirrors and lies comes to mind.

So now what do the farmers do if there are no payments next week as promised. They are bored and will not return to Bangkok which IMO was this government's goal all along. They could not afford having this group anywhere near the city. IMO no matter what happens, money paid or not this group will not return to Bangkok.

[smedly]

If this hole the government keeps digging gets any bigger the entire country is going to disappear down it.

Something is very wrong, this last group of farmers that spent three days to come to Bangkok and were sent back in one day with their tails between their legs. Of course this was all accomplished in part by another of Thaksin's lapdogs Barnhan. I do try to keep up but I am at a total loss as to where this is all heading.

Floating bonds is not a short term deal when you start from zero, it will take a few months to raise enough money to pay these farmers and the success largely depends on the public investors. I cannot imagine this scheme will be anywhere near successful, smoke, mirrors and lies comes to mind.

So now what do the farmers do if there are no payments next week as promised. They are bored and will not return to Bangkok which IMO was this government's goal all along. They could not afford having this group anywhere near the city. IMO no matter what happens, money paid or not this group will not return to Bangkok.

have to agree with you, something weird was going on with Barnhan, it was like PTP were leading a march against themselves, did Barnhan hijack the farmers protest or was he leading a group to challenge the PDRC, there is something just not quite right about what went on here, did all the farmers just turn around and go home ? on the basis of another government promise

[GATHER]

I'm sorry to say but...

We do know that any debts or loans ,some one or some group must be held responsible for the losses ...

Saying that you realize whom , and there fore the Government must to take action to pay back from the current income they have not to make a huge hole in public funds or but on limited taxes will grow up and guess who will pay for all the debits and the schemes they play ?

You and me and the rest of Thailand .

Taxes will grow up and VAT will grow up and food will be more expensive , now put yourself's in present matter is it legal that you have to pay for the holes that the government created ?

Is it good that you have to work to cover more than only farmers rice payment , there are many holes in the economy and you can tie all of them together but with different debts and percentage of minuses for the same scheme .

Stock payments , rice term lost : losses of actual good , crisis holes in the economy holding of the export of most of the products that the government is related to by action , the loans of foreign banks , the engage of local banks for speeding up the process to liberate a huge amount of money to the debtors and so on and on .

Who do you think will pay all of this Thaksin or the population of Thailand ?

And most of all who do you think will have a huge step backwards in economical status and in foreign investitures ... just Thailand ....

Now you can see how this game is played .

And the actual Government just steps down and flees the scene no charges pressed no action taken they will pay no damage they will blame it on the people .

[Robby nz]

More and more rice coming on to the market all the time now and that will increase in the next few weeks.

Photos I took this morning.

Paddy that was harvested this week.

More to come into the distance in every direction.

Where it will go I have no idea, if it is sold to millers or traders it will be in direct competition with the Govt trying to sell stockpiles and which would you prefer, new or old ?

If sold to the Govt then it is even more they will owe the farmers.

I fail to understand the stupidity of the reds comments on here and can only surmise that they have never seen a Thai rice paddy or farmer except on their screen if they had they would not be using the plight of the farmers to attempt to score pathetic political points.

As I get around on my pushbike as I do most mornings and see the farmers and farm workers out in the paddy and see the conditions that the farm workers in particular live in there are always 2 thoughts in my mind, the first is "How lucky I am" the second are the words of the Joan Baez song "There but for fortune go you or I"

Think on that before you post.

[crobe]

 

I wonder if farangs can purchase these bonds? It would be a better rate than the banks offer. Plus we would be supporting the poor farmers you anti-government supporters care so much for. So what do you think buy some bonds to support our farmers, they deserve it.

 

Good idea, both you an kikkoman can spend hundreds of thousands on these bonds, we will be glad to see you post the proof.

Offering high rates of interest, yes, but where do you think they will get the money to repay these?

Any new administration would be legally bound to pay the farmers, but may not have an obligation to repay investors in bonds if it was found by the court that these had been issued illegally by a caretaker government exceeding its mandate.

Any investment carries risk - this could be a substantial risk

[473geo]

There are so many holes in this statement from Kittirat, but lets look at them critically.

1) From a promise of all farmers being paid next week, as soon as they have got them to turn around they change the story - only smaller debts - under 500k will be paid, the others will have to wait - this may then exclude a lot of the farmers cooperatives which aggregate the small farmers produce, so it could still be that many of the smaller farmers do not get paid for "at least 6 weeks" missing the next planting season

2) Even those outstanding amounts under 500k each will amount to around 70-80Bn baht in total, and so there is no guarantee that the government can raise that amount in a week - so who will be paid first?

3) It is still not clear the government in caretaker mode will be allowed to issue bonds or promissory notes as that may still violate the bar on raising of new funds - of course this will be challenged in the courts and so PTP will claim it is the EC/NACC/Constitutional courts that are blocking the payments to farmers again, but in reality this scheme could have been put in place in October before the protests and the dissolution of the parliament, but they were not willing to do this as it would have opened up the scheme to parliamentary scrutiny and questions about the rice-pledge financing.

4) The Vayapuk 1 scheme is an investment vehicle for 10 years partly funded by the public and partly by government enterprises, it is only half way through the scheme timeline. It invests in government securities, State-owned enterprises securities etc and is governed by a board and a charter of rules. although it does regularly buy and sell assets it should do so at a profit. Dumping SOE securities in this current market, where buyers would drive the price, would probably mean realising a loss - so a loss on the rice-pledging becomes another loss on the investment scheme.It is probably also not possible to ask the SOE to recapitalise the sheme - basically loaning more money to it -, as then using this money as a loan or bond to cover the BACC may violate the articles of the investment fund charter.

All in all it looks as if it will be a hard week for the caretaker government to raise any funding for the farmers by next Friday, and sales of rice may only bring in another 1-2Bn at best, so it may be argues that by the end of the month some drastic action may be needed by the PTP.

Would be interesting to know who is booking the business class seats on TG517 on Friday afternoon.

Posts about the upcoming planting season being affected show little understanding of the way the Thai farming community functions......but carry on.......

I'll buy a few bonds for the kids, good karma you know,......care to join me?

[maeab1]

Any person that buys bonds are just adding to the problem.

Edited February 22, 2014 by maeab1

[Goat Roper]

If this hole the government keeps digging gets any bigger the entire country is going to disappear down it.

Something is very wrong, this last group of farmers that spent three days to come to Bangkok and were sent back in one day with their tails between their legs. Of course this was all accomplished in part by another of Thaksin's lapdogs Barnhan. I do try to keep up but I am at a total loss as to where this is all heading.

Floating bonds is not a short term deal when you start from zero, it will take a few months to raise enough money to pay these farmers and the success largely depends on the public investors. I cannot imagine this scheme will be anywhere near successful, smoke, mirrors and lies comes to mind.

So now what do the farmers do if there are no payments next week as promised. They are bored and will not return to Bangkok which IMO was this government's goal all along. They could not afford having this group anywhere near the city. IMO no matter what happens, money paid or not this group will not return to Bangkok.

have to agree with you, something weird was going on with Barnhan, it was like PTP were leading a march against themselves, did Barnhan hijack the farmers protest or was he leading a group to challenge the PDRC, there is something just not quite right about what went on here, did all the farmers just turn around and go home ? on the basis of another government promise

Any time Barnhan is in anyway involved you can bet it will be a sad ending for democracy. He sticks his head out of his hole when Thaksin beckons. Barnhan is on par with iLerm.

[crobe]

I have a lot more understanding of the agricultural sector than you imagine, and it is not just the rice crop that is now being affected, other government policies are causing problems too.

But please go ahead, buy some binds for you "karma" - I would prefer to rely more on sound financial analysis, rather than bleeding heart ideology.

I hope you can feed your kids on "karma" or if you have so much money that you can waste some, why not put it to some better direct use - there are a lot of things you can contribute to directly through charities and NGOs that would have a lot more benefit than buying junk bonds that carry no guarantee that the proceeds go to the deserving.

Do something positive for Thailand and the community for a change