Need advice on SSDs and on speeding my computer up in general

[davejonesbkk]

Im taking my desktop into a PC repair shop this weekend to get the front fan on the tower replaced as somethings loose in it and its v.noisy now (cant replace myself due to the structure of the tower).

I want to significantly speed up my PC load time for when I first boot it up and for opening and running multiple programs and files so I want to get an SSD put it and have a few queries about best way to do this:

What capacity should I go for? I was thinking 120GB, I would have it as the main C drive and install Windows on it and my current 500GB HDD which is the C drive at present would just be for storage.

Should I get an internal or external one?

For optimal performance would it be better to have files I use regularly stored on the SSD also?

Anything else I need to know?

Im also thinking about upgrading the RAM, currently I have 8GB, am I going to see a significant speed increase if I increase by 4GB, 8GB or more?

thanks!

[muratremix]

8Gb ram is more than enough, don't waste your money on 16gb unless you use it as a workstation, editing ultra hd 4k video files etc etc.

There is no external ssd, all ssds are internal.

120gb should be more than enough for moderate use, just install windows and your favourite apps. Maybe some games. The rest can be kept in 500gb hdd of yours.

SSD should be used for important and speed-requiring files only.

[davejonesbkk]

great thanks

[Pib]

Get a hybrid drive (SSD plus regular drive) like a Seagate SSHD...get the best of both hard drive worlds in one drive....speed plus capacity.

http://m.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/

http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/internal-hard-drives/seagate/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive-1tb-sata-6gb-s-2-5inch-5400rpm-64mb-cache-9-5mm-st1000lm014-p015943/

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

Edited February 22, 2014 by Pib

[muratremix]

Get a hybrid drive (SSD plus regular drive) like a Seagate SSHD...get the best of both hard drive worlds in one drive....speed plus capacity.

http://m.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/

http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/internal-hard-drives/seagate/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive-1tb-sata-6gb-s-2-5inch-5400rpm-64mb-cache-9-5mm-st1000lm014-p015943/

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

OP will use it on desktop, not laptop.

SSHD is a joke. Better to get 240/480gb ssd instead of investing in such toys.

[Tywais]

I'm running a 120GB SSD and my OS and all applications are installed on it. My Documents folder is moved to my hard drive (have 2x500GB internal drives). Most of the time I have about half the space available on the SSD but usually will load up my current game (FPS) on it as it increases performance significantly then remove it when I'm done/bored with it. Also my swap drive is on the 2nd internal hard drive but since the op has 8GB not really needed to have a swap. If video editing or heavy graphics than will move that file to the SSD while working on it.

There was a very large improvement when I installed the SSD which was nearly 4 years ago. A good graphics card can significantly improve performance for graphics intensive application or games.

[Pib]

Get a hybrid drive (SSD plus regular drive) like a Seagate SSHD...get the best of both hard drive worlds in one drive....speed plus capacity.

http://m.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/

http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/internal-hard-drives/seagate/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive-1tb-sata-6gb-s-2-5inch-5400rpm-64mb-cache-9-5mm-st1000lm014-p015943/

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

OP will use it on desktop, not laptop.

SSHD is a joke. Better to get 240/480gb ssd instead of investing in such toys.

Take a look at the Seagate link I gave above...they come in desktop version also. They are indeed fast when you take a review of the comparison of SSD, HHSD, and standard hard drives in comparisons which gives some benchmarks in real world times like how fast it increases the speed of computer bootup, how fast "certain" programs boot-up/run, etc. Even SSDs won't significantly increase the speed of :certain programs/computer processes" because it's not the hard drive data load speed that's the key factor all the time, it's CPU/GPU power and basic motherboard design.

Heck, in Dec 13 I bought a new Lenovo Z510 laptop with i7-4702MQ CPU (quad core not dual core) and it comes with a standard Seagate 5400RPM hard drive...not an SSD or HHSD drive. From the time I turn it on until the Win 8.1 Start screen appears...the computer is ready to go....complete boot-up is approx 15-20 seconds. I timed two boot-ups just before writing this post...first boot-up took 20.7 seconds...second boot-up took 16.4 seconds....most of my bootups are closer to the 15 second mark than the 20 second mark. And the computer booted up that fast when I only had 4GB of RAM installed; now I have 8GB just because I wanted it, but I haven't noticed any speed/bootup speed increase from it yet...but I'm not a heavy duty user of a computer like playing games, video editing, etc.

Well, how in the world can a standard old 5400RPM 1TB hard drive running Win 8.1 allow such a fast boot-up. In my case, it's not really the hard drive that providing that fast boot-up, it's primarily the most important part of a computer--the CPU and motherboard. Will a SSD improve speed significantly...sure...probably...maybe...not all the time for all programs...and they are still pretty price for the amount of storage you get. HHSD is just another hard drive option to look at and probably worth a look.

In closing, did you know that only 8GB of NAND which a SSD is composed of provides approx 95% of the needed file data cache for a typical cooperate user and 9.59GB provides 100% cache of typical files frequently used. The Seagate HHSD comes with 8GB NAND/SSD built-in to supplement the standard hard drive portion which is probably around 99% cache of frequent files used, like frequently used operating system files. And don't confuse the standard cache of XMBs that all standard hard drives come with...I'm specifically talking the SSD/flash RAM portion of the hybrid drive. See this Link for more info about file caching.

[muratremix]

I would only use ssd + hdd combination in laptop where you have only one hdd slot.

For desktop using seperate ssd + extra hdd is easy and not expensive.

Once you go ssd, you never go back

[Pib]

I would only use ssd + hdd combination in laptop where you have only one hdd slot.

For desktop using seperate ssd + extra hdd is easy and not expensive.

Once you go ssd, you never go back

I probably would too for a desktop unless on a tight budget, especially if I also played a lot of games because I expect a SSD does significant improve game performance in most cases and if I was one of those folks who had their desktop outfitted a CPU and GPU card that had cooling systems on them that looked like a car radiator cooling system...basically always wanted the latest technology....not to imply aforementioned statement applies to you but it it does that perfectly OK...everybody likes/wants something different. Man, it's probably been almost 10 years since I've owned a desktop as I switched to laptops. But believe it or not I'm been thinking about building a desktop from scratch/over a few months in scoping out the best performance and price marriage...and use that as my computer in one of my bedrooms which I converted to an office instead of my backup laptop in that office which is just a Pentium Core Duo 8 year old Toshiba laptop which still does the basic I job I need.

Years back I learned the latest technology will always have the fastest benchmarks but whether those benchmarks result in real world/perceivable performance increases is another story. As a basic computer user I now kinda stay behind the leading edge of computer hardware and wait for it to come down in price a little later on because I know the benchmarks & hype won't live up to my real world expectations...but that's just me.

Summary: yeap, a SSD would be faster than a SSHD...how much faster in the realworld I couldn't say personally as I must rely on feedback such as yours, reviews, and benchmarks. Cheers.

[KittenKong]

I'm running a 120GB SSD and my OS and all applications are installed on it. My Documents folder is moved to my hard drive (have 2x500GB internal drives). Most of the time I have about half the space available on the SSD but usually will load up my current game (FPS) on it as it increases performance significantly then remove it when I'm done/bored with it.

Yes, this is the best compromise assuming that one cant/wont just buy a huge SSD for everything.

Some people suggest moving the entire <user> folder structure to the non-SSD D: drive but this is a mistake as it's important to leave the <user>/appdata folder on the SSD C: drive where Windows and programmes can access it quickly.

[Chicog]

There is no external ssd, all ssds are internal.

You're on a roll, you are.

http://www.serversdirect.co.uk/Verbatim_USB_3.0_64GB_SSD_Solid_State_Drive_External_Hard_Drive_47633/version.asp?refsource=SDadwords&crtag=SD&gclid=CM6BwrSh37wCFUjItAod1VEACA

http://www.memoryc.com/storage/externalharddrives/128gbintegralusb30portablessdstoragedrive.html?gclid=CNrynM2h37wCFdShtAodnWIAZQ

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-lacie-p-9223-ssd-usb-3-0-slim-drive-120gb/p1533752?cm_mmc=googlebase-extension-_-hard-drives-_-portable-drives-_-lacie-p-9223-ssd-usb-3-0-slim-drive-120gb_1533752&utm_source=googlebase-extension&mkwid=otxm7nsg&pcrid=22506479169&gclid=ci6iqech37wcfquewwod6imabg

[Chicog]

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/1813-63-tomshardware

[Richard-BKK]

Of course more than 3GB only works if you use an 64-bits operating system, if you just use regular MS Windows the extra memory (everything more than 3.5GB is absolute useless).

[muratremix]

There is no external ssd, all ssds are internal.

You're on a roll, you are.

http://www.serversdirect.co.uk/Verbatim_USB_3.0_64GB_SSD_Solid_State_Drive_External_Hard_Drive_47633/version.asp?refsource=SDadwords&crtag=SD&gclid=CM6BwrSh37wCFUjItAod1VEACA

http://www.memoryc.com/storage/externalharddrives/128gbintegralusb30portablessdstoragedrive.html?gclid=CNrynM2h37wCFdShtAodnWIAZQ

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-lacie-p-9223-ssd-usb-3-0-slim-drive-120gb/p1533752?cm_mmc=googlebase-extension-_-hard-drives-_-portable-drives-_-lacie-p-9223-ssd-usb-3-0-slim-drive-120gb_1533752&utm_source=googlebase-extension&mkwid=otxm7nsg&pcrid=22506479169&gclid=ci6iqech37wcfquewwod6imabg

You seriously don't expect me to entertain this?

What kind of troll are you? Put ssd in an enclosure box and here is your external portable harddrive made of SSD.

[davejonesbkk]

ok got a 120GB, had to play around in the setting so it would appear in Windows, I have it as the E drive and if I want the OS on the SSD and for it to be the boot drive I need to do the following right?

Go into BIOS and change the SSD to the boot drive

Restart and then install Windows to the SSD, then drivers, software etc

Then the old HDD is just for storage, do I leave the old Windows installation on there too?

Im also not sure if I should install other programs to the SSD or to the HDD, would I see significant performance increase with them on the SSD?

[Chicog]

No, you're wrong.

Just admit it man, what's up with you?

Or will you be telling us next there are no external HDDs either?

Edited February 22, 2014 by astral
Removal of quote - Please use Reply button a the bottom

[JetsetBkk]

ok got a 120GB, had to play around in the setting so it would appear in Windows, I have it as the E drive and if I want the OS on the SSD and for it to be the boot drive I need to do the following right?

Go into BIOS and change the SSD to the boot drive

Restart and then install Windows to the SSD, then drivers, software etc

Then the old HDD is just for storage, do I leave the old Windows installation on there too?

Im also not sure if I should install other programs to the SSD or to the HDD, would I see significant performance increase with them on the SSD?

This is what I did after I bought my Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB SSD.

1. I made a System Image of my current system drive - a 500 GB drive - using Acronis True Image.

2. I installed the SSD into a spare SATA slot.

3. I restored the image to the SSD.

4. I changed the BIOS to boot from the SSD and it booted perfectly.

There was no need for any drivers as the SSD looks just like a SATA drive to Windows.

There was no need for installing software as it was all in the image.

I would install all programs on the SSD unless you are talking about massively large game programs. But I don't know much about them as I am not a gamer.

Most of my documents are on other HDs in the desktop. Just a few regularly used documents are on the SSD.

A word of warning:

I didn't check the partition sizes until a few days later. What I discovered was that all 3 partitions were exactly half their original size because I had restored a 500 GB image to a 250 GB SSD. I had assumed that the empty last partition had been truncated, but I was wrong. I was lucky as all the partitions on the HD were less than 50% used.

This was all done using Acronis True Image Home 11 ("11" not "2011") on an XP system.

I then used Partition Wizard v4.2 on a bootable USB to resize the partitions and increase the Windows partition back to 100 GB.

Hope this is useful info for you.

(I also put a 120 GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD in my Netbook - same method: image of HD restored to SSD. Changed it from virtually unusable and slow, to tolerable. )

Edited February 22, 2014 by JetsetBkk

[davejonesbkk]

ok so I just looked in BIOS and it seems that the SSD is already set as the primary boot drive but everytime I restart its booting to Windows which is on the HDD, should I just put my Win7 disc in and start doing a fresh install and then choose to install to the SSD?

[Chicog]

Do a Fresh install, and following the advice in post #12.

It will probably pick up your previous installation and add it to the boot menu, but you can worry about that later.

[davejonesbkk]

yeah thanks, just disconnected the HDD and doing fresh install to the SSD now and then will just format the HDD later

[Chicog]

yeah thanks, just disconnected the HDD and doing fresh install to the SSD now and then will just format the HDD later

That's even easier.

Don't forget the tips though, you don't want the pagefile on the SSD for a start, loads of unnecessary read/writes.

I always set mine at a fixed size anyway (in fact on my netbook, it's set to None with no problems whatsoever, although Microsoft seem to disapprove!).

Edited February 23, 2014 by Chicog

[JSixpack]

you don't want the pagefile on the SSD for a start, loads of unnecessary read/writes.

A common misconception.

In fact, given typical pagefile reference patterns and the favorable performance characteristics SSDs have on those patterns, there are few files better than the pagefile to place on an SSD.

--http://blogs.msdn.co...drives-and.aspx

OP, don't mess around w/ your pagefile unless you start to run out of space on your SSD. You're good to go.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Why bother with the SSD, have a 480gb which I made into the secondary drive, with my 2TB Hybrid as my C drive....way faster than the Solid State. SSDs are great for reliability but not power. Also hooked up a 3TB external hardware Raid 0 for working jobs. However talking PC laptop here. My workstation tower start volume has a 3×500 Sata soft-Raid 0.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Chicog]

you don't want the pagefile on the SSD for a start, loads of unnecessary read/writes.

A common misconception.

In fact, given typical pagefile reference patterns and the favorable performance characteristics SSDs have on those patterns, there are few files better than the pagefile to place on an SSD.

--http://blogs.msdn.co...drives-and.aspx

OP, don't mess around w/ your pagefile unless you start to run out of space on your SSD. You're good to go.

I know SSD lifespans are improving by the day, but why put the wear on it? Although if you have 8Gb and you aren't doing a lot, you don't need a pagefile at all.

I have 2Gb RAM on the netbook and I did away with it altogether when I put an SSD in it. Never had a crash, but I only really use a browser and a mail client on it.

[JetsetBkk]

ok so I just looked in BIOS and it seems that the SSD is already set as the primary boot drive but everytime I restart its booting to Windows which is on the HDD, should I just put my Win7 disc in and start doing a fresh install and then choose to install to the SSD?

"but everytime I restart its booting to Windows which is on the HDD"

- so what was on the SSD?

Sounds like the SSD didn't have a bootable system on it, so your PC's BIOS correctly booted the drive containing a bootable system, which was your hard drive.

I did a "HD image restore to a SSD" twice in the last few weeks on my own PC and netbook, and before that I did it on a mate's PC. They all booted fine.

[Pib]

Get a hybrid drive (SSD plus regular drive) like a Seagate SSHD...get the best of both hard drive worlds in one drive....speed plus capacity.

http://m.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/

http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/internal-hard-drives/seagate/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive-1tb-sata-6gb-s-2-5inch-5400rpm-64mb-cache-9-5mm-st1000lm014-p015943/

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

OP will use it on desktop, not laptop.

SSHD is a joke. Better to get 240/480gb ssd instead of investing in such toys.

Take a look at the Seagate link I gave above...they come in desktop version also. They are indeed fast when you take a review of the comparison of SSD, HHSD, and standard hard drives in comparisons which gives some benchmarks in real world times like how fast it increases the speed of computer bootup, how fast "certain" programs boot-up/run, etc. Even SSDs won't significantly increase the speed of :certain programs/computer processes" because it's not the hard drive data load speed that's the key factor all the time, it's CPU/GPU power and basic motherboard design.

Heck, in Dec 13 I bought a new Lenovo Z510 laptop with i7-4702MQ CPU (quad core not dual core) and it comes with a standard Seagate 5400RPM hard drive...not an SSD or HHSD drive. From the time I turn it on until the Win 8.1 Start screen appears...the computer is ready to go....complete boot-up is approx 15-20 seconds. I timed two boot-ups just before writing this post...first boot-up took 20.7 seconds...second boot-up took 16.4 seconds....most of my bootups are closer to the 15 second mark than the 20 second mark. And the computer booted up that fast when I only had 4GB of RAM installed; now I have 8GB just because I wanted it, but I haven't noticed any speed/bootup speed increase from it yet...but I'm not a heavy duty user of a computer like playing games, video editing, etc.

Well, how in the world can a standard old 5400RPM 1TB hard drive running Win 8.1 allow such a fast boot-up. In my case, it's not really the hard drive that providing that fast boot-up, it's primarily the most important part of a computer--the CPU and motherboard. Will a SSD improve speed significantly...sure...probably...maybe...not all the time for all programs...and they are still pretty price for the amount of storage you get. HHSD is just another hard drive option to look at and probably worth a look.

In closing, did you know that only 8GB of NAND which a SSD is composed of provides approx 95% of the needed file data cache for a typical cooperate user and 9.59GB provides 100% cache of typical files frequently used. The Seagate HHSD comes with 8GB NAND/SSD built-in to supplement the standard hard drive portion which is probably around 99% cache of frequent files used, like frequently used operating system files. And don't confuse the standard cache of XMBs that all standard hard drives come with...I'm specifically talking the SSD/flash RAM portion of the hybrid drive. See this Link for more info about file caching.

I stumbled across this very short YouTube video showing a Lenovo Z510 like I have with SSD....the bootup time to the Win 8 Start screen appears to be about half of my 15 second bootup time with a standard hard hard drive as I described above.

[KittenKong]

Heck, in Dec 13 I bought a new Lenovo Z510 laptop with i7-4702MQ CPU (quad core not dual core) and it comes with a standard Seagate 5400RPM hard drive...not an SSD or HHSD drive. From the time I turn it on until the Win 8.1 Start screen appears...the computer is ready to go....complete boot-up is approx 15-20 seconds. I timed two boot-ups just before writing this post...first boot-up took 20.7 seconds...second boot-up took 16.4 seconds....most of my bootups are closer to the 15 second mark than the 20 second mark. And the computer booted up that fast when I only had 4GB of RAM installed; now I have 8GB just because I wanted it, but I haven't noticed any speed/bootup speed increase from it yet...but I'm not a heavy duty user of a computer like playing games, video editing, etc.

Well, how in the world can a standard old 5400RPM 1TB hard drive running Win 8.1 allow such a fast boot-up. In my case, it's not really the hard drive that providing that fast boot-up, it's primarily the most important part of a computer--the CPU and motherboard.

Actually Win8 boots fast because it doesnt really boot at all in the way that older OSs do. Win8 restores a lot of pre-saved data on boot and as such is more like a restore from hibernation than a "real" boot.

Using an SSD will certainly help this, of course, but even your old 5400RPM 1TB drive will do a respectable job of reading in a small number of large files during the restore from hibernation.

Putting an SSD in my Win7 desktop made my boot go from well over 2 minutes to barely 30 seconds, yet there was no other change made at all. If I installed Win8 on my desktop (not likely; I'll wait for Windows 9 and the welcome return of programmes that actually run in a window rather than full-screen, not to mention a proper start menu) then I would expect it to boot much faster, still without changing the processor or anything else.

[KittenKong]

Anyone using a Win7 image on an SSD would be well advised to run the Windows Experience Index very early on as this will allow Win7 to adapt itself better to being on an SSD. As far as I know this is not necessary when doing a fresh install but as it only takes a minute or two to run I would do it anyway.

Fitting an SSD as the system drive is a really cost-effective upgrade and it should breathe new life into an older machine.

[Pib]

Heck, in Dec 13 I bought a new Lenovo Z510 laptop with i7-4702MQ CPU (quad core not dual core) and it comes with a standard Seagate 5400RPM hard drive...not an SSD or HHSD drive. From the time I turn it on until the Win 8.1 Start screen appears...the computer is ready to go....complete boot-up is approx 15-20 seconds. I timed two boot-ups just before writing this post...first boot-up took 20.7 seconds...second boot-up took 16.4 seconds....most of my bootups are closer to the 15 second mark than the 20 second mark. And the computer booted up that fast when I only had 4GB of RAM installed; now I have 8GB just because I wanted it, but I haven't noticed any speed/bootup speed increase from it yet...but I'm not a heavy duty user of a computer like playing games, video editing, etc.

Well, how in the world can a standard old 5400RPM 1TB hard drive running Win 8.1 allow such a fast boot-up. In my case, it's not really the hard drive that providing that fast boot-up, it's primarily the most important part of a computer--the CPU and motherboard.

Actually Win8 boots fast because it doesnt really boot at all in the way that older OSs do. Win8 restores a lot of pre-saved data on boot and as such is more like a restore from hibernation than a "real" boot.

Using an SSD will certainly help this, of course, but even your old 5400RPM 1TB drive will do a respectable job of reading in a small number of large files during the restore from hibernation.

Putting an SSD in my Win7 desktop made my boot go from well over 2 minutes to barely 30 seconds, yet there was no other change made at all. If I installed Win8 on my desktop (not likely; I'll wait for Windows 9 and the welcome return of programmes that actually run in a window rather than full-screen, not to mention a proper start menu) then I would expect it to boot much faster, still without changing the processor or anything else.

KInda sounds like a person could overcome a good portion of their boot-up time by simply upgrading to Win 8.1 if they had that urge but didn't have enough money to satisfy two urges...like upgrading to Win 8.1 "and a SSD."

[davejonesbkk]

Running great so far, loving the speed.

However just noticed a folder on my new C drive 'windows.old' so i Googled it and it says its from an old Windows installation?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/how-do-i-remove-the-windows-old-folder

If you install Windows 7 by performing a custom installation and don't format the partition during the installation process, files that were used in your previous version of Windows are stored in the Windows.old folder. The type of files in this folder depends on your computer

What the heck? Its a fresh install on a brand new SSD...