Police want independence

[bigbamboo]

Cleaning up Thailand means nothing unless they admit their problem - the establishment operating outside the law. It is about equal justice and due process for all regardless of rank and pecking order. Then the police know what their charter is and who is playing the music. Right now the police are just a franchise of bag men operating for the big men and elite.

A franchise of bag men ?? I love that turn of phrase. I used to call them

tax collectors with guns.... In any event, I wonder why they have generated

so much contempt from everyone.......Oh I know, really bad behavior.

When there is a new government, I sure hope reforming the police will be

high on the list. I know that Suthep has said as much, sure hope he follows

through.

Hey don't knock tax collectors with guns. That's how the wonderful Shin dynasty that rules this country with honesty and wisdom got started in the first place.

Edited February 23, 2014 by bigbamboo

[myluckythai]

yeah let these thugs operate independend. That a great idea. It is the government making them dishonoust, unmannerd a holes. !!!!????

euuhhh wait. When this MFCKER was pissing on my motorbike when i refused to pay him a 1000tb for gas money coming to check out my place of residence. i did not remember this being in the Immigration rules the government made. They way they operate feels like the east german Stasi. Giving them freedom would actually mean they can be like that without preservations

[unanimosity]

This would be a step in the right direction.

Why? It just means the BIB are tired of sharing tea money with the pols and want it all.

[allan michaud]

"Pol Maj Gen Kosin said he wanted the public to tell the new government to reform the police force, and that the RTPO should rely on performance evaluations to promote officers rather than look to those who serve politicians."

Well, bugger me sideways, I never thought I would hear a Thai policeman says something like that.

Sadly he has a snowballs chance in hell of that happening.

[Basil B]

The police force should be independent of political interference and corruption, but they have to be answerable to someone, the obvious higher authority is already defined by the first letter of the acronym RTP.

[rijb]

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The police's reputation is so bad in this country that they have actually become for many synonymous with the very problem they are entrusted to protect the public from. So everyone agrees it needs reform. But is reform really going to succeed if suggestions for reform originate from the police themselves ? These suggestions from a police official sound too close to a proposal for an " independent political party ", than a completely unbiased police department, whose sole task should be the protection of the public's constitutional rights and the unprejudiced upholding of the law.Tackling corruption anywhere is going to be the ongoing challenge of reform, as well as being the measure of its success. But tackling corruption will be no less daunting for the police. The more reform is taken out of the hands of the police and placed in the hands of the people - through an act of parliament which adheres to the fundamental rights of all protected by the constitution, followed up by stringent judicial oversight, as well as outreach and ombudsman services - the more the public good is protected.

It's a miracle! This is your first (and only) post I agree with! It was almost worth the wait.

[BuddyPinkham]

1. The image was bad before them undertaking breaking up the protests.

2. More than a few laws needs to be changed if they become independent.

3. Will corruption end if they are not answering to the government? DOUBTFUL!

4. Will they stop accepting BRIBES?

5. The best thing to happen is that the government DOES NOT APPOINT the Chiefs! (lackeys in other words).

6. Would they actually do something that protects the public?

7. Would they be trained better?

8. Rather than harassing tourists for dropping a cigarette but on the sidewalk (right beside 5 other Thias doing the same thing), will they treat everyone the same?

9. Will they have physical fitness training?

10. WILL THEY ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT than they do now?

[djhotsox]

I was always taught there is no such thing as a stupid question, perhaps this is one but......Does the RTP not have an Internal Affairs Division?

[lovetotravel]

I like what the country of Georgia did. Fire every policeman. Guess what? Crime actually went down because the police were involved in every form of crime. One way or another. Same as here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Georgia_(country)

In the mid-2000s, the Patrol Police Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Georgia has undergone a radical transformation. In 2005. Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili fired "the entire traffic police force" of the Georgian National Police due to corruption,^%5B2%5D numbering around 30,000 police officers.^%5B3%5D

A new force was built around new recruits.^%5B2%5DThe United States State Department's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law-Enforcement Affairs has provided assistance to the training efforts.^%5B4%5D Patruli was first introduced in the summer of 2005 replacing the traffic police, which were accused of corruption.^%5B5%5D

http://www.cracked.com/article_19489_5-terrible-ideas-that-solved-huge-global-problems.html

[Skint]

Title again misleading, they don't want independence it's the people who want the change.

[EyesWideOpen]

Cleaning up Thailand means nothing unless they admit their problem - the establishment operating outside the law. It is about equal justice and due process for all regardless of rank and pecking order. Then the police know what their charter is and who is playing the music. Right now the police are just a franchise of bag men operating for the big men and elite.

A franchise of bag men ?? I love that turn of phrase. I used to call them

tax collectors with guns.... In any event, I wonder why they have generated

so much contempt from everyone.......Oh I know, really bad behavior.

When there is a new government, I sure hope reforming the police will be

high on the list. I know that Suthep has said as much, sure hope he follows

through.

Hey don't knock tax collectors with guns. That's how the wonderful Shin dynasty that rules this country with honesty and wisdom got started in the first place.

Haha thanks, I had forgotten about that.....Tax farming is the term for the start of the family fortune. So there is a long family history of the Shinawatra squeezing money from farmers. :-) So familiar family ground to be associated with the Thai police and their ongoing efforts to get money out of people. Here is great grandpa at work. This article sort of puts to rest the fable about Thaksin being a humble policeman who worked his way up....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

"Seng Sae Khu had made his fortune through tax farming. Chiang Sae Khu/Shinawatra later founded Shinawatra Silks and then by moving into finance, construction and property development.

Edited February 23, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[ianf]

its about bloody time too, an independant police force that worked equally for all thais is way overdue. Actually while they are at it they could also start to do what they are paid for and actually police the country instead of hiding away in their airconditioned offices. A police force that chased after criminals instead oif supporting them would be nice, so would a police force that did road patrols and booked all the bullsh*t drivers/riders, the country would suddenly have a wealth of govt money of they did. Removing ranks once you leave the force should be also high on the agenda, chalerm is not a cop, he is a politician and should be treated as such and have no sway over them, same with thaksin.

Thailand needs an independant police force that does what it is supposed to, this would stop a hell of a lot of the crap we are now seeing and put the reds and yellows to bed, cant wait but it will simply never happen like everything else they plan here.

You are absolutely right but can you imagine politicians and the elite willingly losing control over the BIB, the appointment of senior officers and so on ?

Off course. And the most elite of the elite calls the shots and the police blindly follow and support him. Wasn't Thaksin an ex-police officer? Doesn't he have a lot of chums there? The link between Thaksin (the most elite of elites) and the polce force MUST be broken.

[ChrisY1]

Bufoons......they must be controlled at all times.......this organisation cannot operate solo....they must be managed....95% of the recruits are dolts!!

[DrTuner]

Looks like everybody's vying for the King of The Hill position.

[scorecard]

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its about bloody time too, an independant police force that worked equally for all thais is way overdue. Actually while they are at it they could also start to do what they are paid for and actually police the country instead of hiding away in their airconditioned offices. A police force that chased after criminals instead oif supporting them would be nice, so would a police force that did road patrols and booked all the bullsh*t drivers/riders, the country would suddenly have a wealth of govt money of they did. Removing ranks once you leave the force should be also high on the agenda, chalerm is not a cop, he is a politician and should be treated as such and have no sway over them, same with thaksin.

Thailand needs an independant police force that does what it is supposed to, this would stop a hell of a lot of the crap we are now seeing and put the reds and yellows to bed, cant wait but it will simply never happen like everything else they plan here.

You are absolutely right but can you imagine politicians and the elite willingly losing control over the BIB, the appointment of senior officers and so on ?

Off course. And the most elite of the elite calls the shots and the police blindly follow and support him. Wasn't Thaksin an ex-police officer? Doesn't he have a lot of chums there? The link between Thaksin (the most elite of elites) and the polce force MUST be broken.

Suthep and his followers should take fast and strong advantage of this move by the police. It is after all one of the most urgently needed reforms.

[scorecard]

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Scamper, on 23 Feb 2014 - 11:56, said:Scamper, on 23 Feb 2014 - 11:56, said:

The police's reputation is so bad in this country that they have actually become for many synonymous with the very problem they are entrusted to protect the public from. So everyone agrees it needs reform. But is reform really going to succeed if suggestions for reform originate from the police themselves ? These suggestions from a police official sound too close to a proposal for an " independent political party ", than a completely unbiased police department, whose sole task should be the protection of the public's constitutional rights and the unprejudiced upholding of the law.Tackling corruption anywhere is going to be the ongoing challenge of reform, as well as being the measure of its success. But tackling corruption will be no less daunting for the police. The more reform is taken out of the hands of the police and placed in the hands of the people - through an act of parliament which adheres to the fundamental rights of all protected by the constitution, followed up by stringent judicial oversight, as well as outreach and ombudsman services - the more the public good is protected.

In Australia each state has its only police force, many years ago, approx. 35, there was an issue with corruption in the Queensland police they realised they could not have their only police investigate itself, so brought in police from other states, many Queensland police, from bottom to top, where charged, fined and/or jailed... ALL guilty police lost their jobs. This of course can not happen in Thailand and it is unlikely outside police will be brought in, so Thailand is stuck with corrupt police for a very long time as no one at the top has the balls to replace the guilty high level police, then force change to filter down.

All the more reason for reforms before elections.

[taony]

The police can reform themselves if they really want to. Why do they have to wait for someone to do it for them? Start acting like police, that's it. just say "no". Maybe it will take a while and you need some leaders with balls, but it can be done.

[dighambara]

AMEN..!!

The Police truly need to focus on doing their job, which would be to ticket traffic offenders, which would bring in revenue enough to improve training and pay a real wage to eliminate corruption.

[Pops]

Quote:

[Pol Maj Gen Kosin Hintao, deputy commissioner of the Central Investigation Bureau (CIB), said he accepted that the image of the police was poor.
But in light of current events, that was because the police needed to comply with the government's order to bring the protesters under control.]

​So, they seriously think the image of the police was not poor before the protests ?

LOL

[bob6130]

Independence for the Police or the Army would be devistating for the Thai people.

What they should do is swear allegance to King and Country and serve them faithfully no matter what Government serves at the time.

[selftaopath]

FIRST AND FOREMOST Thai police out to NEVER be called "Royal" the synonyms listed below disallow this distinction.

Royal: excellent, fine, magnificent, splendid, superb, wonderful, first-rate, first-class, fantastic,great, tremendous

To many, they are ANYTHING but royal. Do I have an "amen"? :-)

[rametindallas]

In my opinion/experience, the RTP is a mafia organization. They have a symbiotic relationship with their political masters who protect them in their criminal enterprises and the police, in turn, do the bidding of the politicians. Nowhere in this relationship is there room for the common citizen's rights/protection as there is no benefit to the powers that be in that. In a perfect world, the politicians would guard the citizenry against rampant police misconduct and the police would treat politicians as citizens. Alas, we do not live in a perfect World. In the U.S., police are much more violent to the common citizens because, since there is no profit to be made in police work, it attracts the 'thug', or bully, element. At least in Thailand, police recruits are attracted by the prospect of making money and not brutalizing citizens. Personally, I would rather deal with a Thai policeman than a U.S. policeman.

[scorecard]

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In my opinion/experience, the RTP is a mafia organization. They have a symbiotic relationship with their political masters who protect them in their criminal enterprises and the police, in turn, do the bidding of the politicians. Nowhere in this relationship is there room for the common citizen's rights/protection as there is no benefit to the powers that be in that. In a perfect world, the politicians would guard the citizenry against rampant police misconduct and the police would treat politicians as citizens. Alas, we do not live in a perfect World. In the U.S., police are much more violent to the common citizens because, since there is no profit to be made in police work, it attracts the 'thug', or bully, element. At least in Thailand, police recruits are attracted by the prospect of making money and not brutalizing citizens. Personally, I would rather deal with a Thai policeman than a U.S. policeman.

Agree, and the rtp is a brotherhood. Members of the brotherhood can do no wrong in the eyes of all other brothers. No matter what brothers do, even the most serious of crimes, the other brothers protect them.

[EyesWideOpen]

FIRST AND FOREMOST Thai police out to NEVER be called "Royal" the synonyms listed below disallow this distinction.

Royal: excellent, fine, magnificent, splendid, superb, wonderful, first-rate, first-class, fantastic,great, tremendous

To many, they are ANYTHING but royal. Do I have an "amen"? :-)

Correct....One of the most blatant ongoing cases of lese majeste here in

Thailand is to use the word Royal in front of the name for this pack of

thieves. Just like was done in Georgia, I say fire them all to cut crime,

and then start over with real policemen tasked with stopping crime instead

of their present task, which seems to be either being directly involved in

criminal enterprises, or shaking down any business they are not involved in.

[rametindallas]

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In my opinion/experience, the RTP is a mafia organization. They have a symbiotic relationship with their political masters who protect them in their criminal enterprises and the police, in turn, do the bidding of the politicians. Nowhere in this relationship is there room for the common citizen's rights/protection as there is no benefit to the powers that be in that. In a perfect world, the politicians would guard the citizenry against rampant police misconduct and the police would treat politicians as citizens. Alas, we do not live in a perfect World. In the U.S., police are much more violent to the common citizens because, since there is no profit to be made in police work, it attracts the 'thug', or bully, element. At least in Thailand, police recruits are attracted by the prospect of making money and not brutalizing citizens. Personally, I would rather deal with a Thai policeman than a U.S. policeman.

Agree, and the rtp is a brotherhood. Members of the brotherhood can do no wrong in the eyes of all other brothers. No matter what brothers do, even the most serious of crimes, the other brothers protect them.

This 'brother' loyalty extends to the whole of Thai society and it's not just Thailand. A Persian friend related a common story from traditional Iran: If you want to know who your true friends are, call each one in the middle of the night and ask them to come help dispose of the body of someone you accidentally killed. Your true friends will show up. I know it is hard for Westerners to get their head around, but in Thailand, loyalty to a friend is more important that what is moral and everyone must choose a side. Newin (Chidchob) will never be trusted or respected by many for his betrayal of Dr. Thaksin. His betrayal is tolerated because they understand the concept of self-interest, but barely so. Thailand has many customs that are so deep as to be undetectable or easily misinterpreted by the Westerner. I do my best to not bring my Western judgment to my observations of Thai behavior. I do judge the results of Thai behavior on other Thais but never share that with Thais excepting the Thais on this forum. How many times do you scratch your head and wonder. 'Why did he do that of why did he do that in the way he did?'. 'TIT They don't do things the way you do them back home', is what my answer is.

[pattayaorganic]

"Those taking the money for the 2000 baht cigarette butts are not police (they were the same brown colour to confuse tourists they are police in my opinion)

They are BMA people, they are not police. The BMA is run by the Democrat Party controlled Bangkok Governer.

So do not blame the police for that, blame the BMA and its Democrat governer for this scam."

@LevelHead: So charging a fee/fine for somebody breaking the law is a your definition of "scam"? I am glad you don't run the police force...perhaps you have heard of enforcing the rule of law. Thank you for pointing out that the Democrat run BMA is the only organisation of actually enforcing the law.

How would you actually prefer it? Anarchy? Any laws that you happen to not agree with should not be enforced? Very interesting way of thinking you have.

[casualbiker]

The last thing Thailand needs is for RTPO to be another independent agency that can challenge the Parliament. Not only will that further the lack of transparency and conflict of interests in the RTPO, it creates an unelected political force that operates by its own agenda and laws. What is needed is a functioning, independent Inspector General Agency that reports to the Parliament to investigate corruption, conflict of interests, failure of duty, discrimination, etc.. This would reinforce professionalism and provide accountability and transparency.

You mean you understand that Thailand needs political reforms!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wolfmanjack]

If you have a CLEAN government, therefore they would automatically cleanse the force. That's the way it works in say the UK.

There are too many powers above the law here this to me is the problem.

My take on this is definitely NO to their independence. They have already too much pull, and controlled by ???? you want a police state ??? then what happens the army fighting the police on the streets. Amazing some posters think it is a good idea DOH.

independence from the politicians and promotion by merit is a good thing. they can still be held accountable to another agency such as the NAAC.

Then they do not have to owe any allegiance to any political party for their promotion as it is now.

[robertson468]

its about bloody time too, an independant police force that worked equally for all thais is way overdue. Actually while they are at it they could also start to do what they are paid for and actually police the country instead of hiding away in their airconditioned offices. A police force that chased after criminals instead oif supporting them would be nice, so would a police force that did road patrols and booked all the bullsh*t drivers/riders, the country would suddenly have a wealth of govt money of they did. Removing ranks once you leave the force should be also high on the agenda, chalerm is not a cop, he is a politician and should be treated as such and have no sway over them, same with thaksin.

Thailand needs an independant police force that does what it is supposed to, this would stop a hell of a lot of the crap we are now seeing and put the reds and yellows to bed, cant wait but it will simply never happen like everything else they plan here.

You are absolutely right but can you imagine politicians and the elite willingly losing control over the BIB, the appointment of senior officers and so on ?

This is all part of the exciting democratic development of the Country and in time the police will be divorced from their political masters, unfortunately I don't think it will be in your or my time? Same with the military, who also, in time, will be removed from the political scene and will become a tool of a non-corrupt Government (well nearly non-corrupt). Oh well, dream over and time for another cuppa.

[ginjag]

If you have a CLEAN government, therefore they would automatically cleanse the force. That's the way it works in say the UK.

There are too many powers above the law here this to me is the problem.

My take on this is definitely NO to their independence. They have already too much pull, and controlled by ???? you want a police state ??? then what happens the army fighting the police on the streets. Amazing some posters think it is a good idea DOH.

independence from the politicians and promotion by merit is a good thing. they can still be held accountable to another agency such as the NAAC.

Then they do not have to owe any allegiance to any political party for their promotion as it is now.

On paper you have a valid point.

Promotion by merit will never work here, you pay for promotion here, at near all levels unless you are family of.

Good governance is the only way HERE. This regime has got to be cleaned up before any reform is operated.

Government no matter what party has laws and the police implement.

I worked for a UK government Dept., we worked for the crown/government that happened to be in power. We didn't let our voting preferences impair our work.

Politicians should not be personally involved only the cabinet member who overseas the department the chief of police carries out his duties as per law if not he is replaced.

Police are impartial and are there to enforce and also PROTECT the public.