Redshirt threats get political tension boiling

[anon467367354]

How come United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship supports Thaksin and Yingluck? Their definition of dictatorship must be different.

it's pretty clear isn't it, it's a "front".

[wvavin]

The red shirts are inciting an anarchy, which definitely has to be exterminated for the public at large. Sorry to say that but I really have never come across any countries' faction could ever get away by saying this. However, this lame duck army is still giving the red shirts a free hand on even declaring a new state at Chiangmai. Its time to dissolve this red shirts for the good of the future generations to come.

[Sirbergan]

The red shirts are inciting an anarchy, which definitely has to be exterminated for the public at large. Sorry to say that but I really have never come across any countries' faction could ever get away by saying this. However, this lame duck army is still giving the red shirts a free hand on even declaring a new state at Chiangmai. Its time to dissolve this red shirts for the good of the future generations to come.

Who are inciting an anarchy? Did you really say that?

Edited February 24, 2014 by Sirbergan

[suthep songserm]

Jatuporn..........some roads in Bangkok will turn RED.................we will ensure No clashes or Violence ??

he meant full of red shirts....i guessed. an advice to the translator...please finished the sentence and get it right.

[quagmirefg]

All sides have a right to their opinion and to protest.

It is the Job of the Government with the Police and Military to control the PCRD and Anti-Government Protests.

They need to let the Government take care of Enforcement.

Confronting the PCRD and anti-government protests by the Red Shirts will only lead to Anarchy, Violence, and possible Civil War.

Every time the two sides have clashed, there has been Violence.

Even the Red Shirt Laders who proclaim to not want violent confrontations know this. If these Leaders Encourage Confrontation, they are encouraging Violence.

All sides are Capable of Fighting and using Weapons. So there is No Need for the Pro-Government Supporters to attempt to take the law into their own hands.

It will only lead to escalation of the current conflict and further divide the Country

Edited February 24, 2014 by quagmirefg

[Sirbergan]

All sides have a right to their opinion and to protest.

It is the Job of the Government with the Police and Military to control the PCRD and Anti-Government Protests.

They need to let the Government take care of Enforcement.

Confronting the PCRD and anti-government protests by the Red Shirts will only lead to Anarchy, Violence, and possible Civil War.

Every time the two sides have clashed, there has been Violence.

Even the Red Shirt Laders who proclaim to not want violent confrontations know this. If these Leaders Encourage Confrontation, they are encouraging Violence.

All sides are Capable of Fighting and using Weapons. So there is No Need for the Pro-Government Supporters to attempt to take the law into their own hands.

It will only lead to escalation of the current conflict and further divide the Country

That's one of the problems, though. The Civil Court recently left the Government paralyzed. If anyone's inciting an anarchy, ironically enough, it's the courts.

[BestBitterPhuket]

Sadly, the courts and NACC comes across as extremely biased. These "independent" institutions have undermined their credibility over the years, so of course the reds will feel hurled against them from these as unjustice, and if the courts can't give you justice, than vigilantism is the result. All of Thailand's governments, including the current, have failed miserably, but so has the courts. It will be impossible to build up the trust in the near future.

[Just1Voice]

Jatuporn..........some roads in Bangkok will turn RED.................we will ensure No clashes or Violence ??

YAH, come on down and meet the tanks with your pickup trucks and farmers and meet your destiny!!!!

Asinine, biased and "elitist" comment if there ever was one.

[rickirs]

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Who cares about threats? It's the ATTACKS that are the problem.

BTW Jatuporn and Nattiwhut should declare their conflict of interest. Both face lengthy jail sentences should this government be defeated and its delaying tactics and amnesties be nullified.

Abhisit and Suthep also face prison sentences if they are convicted of the murder charges.

Looks like both sides are trying to be in control of the judges.

Maybe the amnesty bill for both sides wasn't such a bad thing after all.

Better than pushing Thailand toward a civil war, for sure.

Where have you been for the last 6 months? It is because of the amnesty bill that Thailand is being pushed toward a civil war.

A bill that was killed by the court and not reintroduced since. But the Democrats, who would have themselves benfitted from the bill, continue to use it as a red herring for political corruption to justify the Democrat anti-government opposition. I ouwldn't be surprised that in six months the Democrats will be hollering for an amensty bill to save its leadership from convictions.

[Gweiloman]

It appears you didn't understand my post.

Suthep and his followers rejected the amnesty bill and instead chose an undemocratic way to oust the government, blocking the city, ruining the economy, financially targeting companies that have nothing to do with Thaksin (AIS, Air Asia, Nestle, Maggi, Oishi, etc), creating more social division and effectively clearing the path to a civil war.

The amnesty bill would have wiped clean the actions of Thaksin, Suthep, Abhisit and others, which would have been a step back from the abyss, rather than a step ahead.

It's just my opinion. I know some people here have a hard time accepting that other people may have different opinions, so you are forgiven.

I understood your post perfectly, and it's clear you have no idea what's going on in Thailand.

The protesters don't support amnesty for any of those people. Even a lot of red shirts don't support amnesty for those people. People don't support the actions being wiped clean.

It is BECAUSE of the amnesty bill that Thailand is being pushed to the abyss.

It is naive to think that there weren't any behind the scenes negotiations between the Dems and PT regarding the amnesty bill. I believe that there was a handshake agreement to go ahead with it. It was only when there war much more than the expected opposition to the bill that the Dems felt they could take advantage of the situation and they reneg on supporting the bill.

I for one feel that the amnesty bill would have been a good thing to wipe the slate clean and start afresh - RESTART THAILAND - to borrow from the protestors. Thailand COULD have been at peace today if the bill got passed. Instead, can anyone who loves Thailand honestly say that they like what's happening here today? No matter how disgusting the bill might have been, sometimes the means justify the ends.

If things really do get out of hand and Bangkok (and the rest of Thailand) falls into the abyss, the amnesty bill would have been a much smaller price to pay for peace and unity.

[Gweiloman]

Sadly, the courts and NACC comes across as extremely biased. These "independent" institutions have undermined their credibility over the years, so of course the reds will feel hurled against them from these as unjustice, and if the courts can't give you justice, than vigilantism is the result. All of Thailand's governments, including the current, have failed miserably, but so has the courts. It will be impossible to build up the trust in the near future.

Whether the courts are biased or not, whether they have served justice correctly or not, what is most important is that justice should be seen to be done. This is something that is sadly missing in a lot of the recent court decisions.

[casualbiker]

All sides have a right to their opinion and to protest.

It is the Job of the Government with the Police and Military to control the PCRD and Anti-Government Protests.

They need to let the Government take care of Enforcement.

Confronting the PCRD and anti-government protests by the Red Shirts will only lead to Anarchy, Violence, and possible Civil War.

Every time the two sides have clashed, there has been Violence.

Even the Red Shirt Laders who proclaim to not want violent confrontations know this. If these Leaders Encourage Confrontation, they are encouraging Violence.

All sides are Capable of Fighting and using Weapons. So there is No Need for the Pro-Government Supporters to attempt to take the law into their own hands.

It will only lead to escalation of the current conflict and further divide the Country

That's one of the problems, though. The Civil Court recently left the Government paralyzed. If anyone's inciting an anarchy, ironically enough, it's the courts.

Off course it didn't. All it did was amend the State of Emergency. It did not affect any current laws that the police use. The police have the same power now as they did before the SOE.

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[smedly]

it's time this organisation was officially branded as terrorist - not much else to say on the matter, pretty obvious and plenty of evidence

[Local Drunk]

All sides have a right to their opinion and to protest.

It is the Job of the Government with the Police and Military to control the PCRD and Anti-Government Protests.

They need to let the Government take care of Enforcement.

Confronting the PCRD and anti-government protests by the Red Shirts will only lead to Anarchy, Violence, and possible Civil War.

Every time the two sides have clashed, there has been Violence.

Even the Red Shirt Laders who proclaim to not want violent confrontations know this. If these Leaders Encourage Confrontation, they are encouraging Violence.

All sides are Capable of Fighting and using Weapons. So there is No Need for the Pro-Government Supporters to attempt to take the law into their own hands.

It will only lead to escalation of the current conflict and further divide the Country

That's one of the problems, though. The Civil Court recently left the Government paralyzed. If anyone's inciting an anarchy, ironically enough, it's the courts.

How have the courts incited anarchy? Where is the anarchy you describe? There are people dead and some of them are children. It's tragic, but they are what we refer to as acts of political terror. If you are referring to the court's order to the police not to use violence to break up the demonstrations; then your post makes even less sense. Everyone I know woke up this morning and went to work or school as normal. Neither Bangkok or Thailand is in a state of anarchy. The only anarchy I've seen today is in your thinking.

[craigt3365]

A member suggesting violence is acceptable is now on a week long posting holiday. We have zero tolerance for these posts. Apologies to the members with the appropriate replies, which I had to removed.

[quagmirefg]

Sadly, the courts and NACC comes across as extremely biased. These "independent" institutions have undermined their credibility over the years, so of course the reds will feel hurled against them from these as unjustice, and if the courts can't give you justice, than vigilantism is the result. All of Thailand's governments, including the current, have failed miserably, but so has the courts. It will be impossible to build up the trust in the near future.

If those Branches of Govrenment are the problem in their opinion, they should take their issues to those Branches of the Government, not toward opposing anti-government protesters.

Strange coincidence now to use this as a stepping stone toward confronting the opposing protests who have had Favorable rulings recently from those parts of the government.

[Gweiloman]

" The red shirts' hard core is Thaksin's last resort plus his crony police officers helping him to carry out underground operations focusing on instigating unlimited violence..."

Isn't this reason enough judge them and to ban them? Stop the violence and the corrupt actors...

So, an accusation from an opposing party, without fact or evidence is grounds enough for Thai courts to take action?

In case you (and those that liked your post) have reading "mis-comprehension", the above was said by Suriyasai Katasila, coordinator of the Green Politics group.

[whybother]

A bill that was killed by the court and not reintroduced since. But the Democrats, who would have themselves benfitted from the bill, continue to use it as a red herring for political corruption to justify the Democrat anti-government opposition. I ouwldn't be surprised that in six months the Democrats will be hollering for an amensty bill to save its leadership from convictions.

The amnesty bill wasn't killed by the courts. The senate rejected it, which meant that it went back to parliament where it sits for 180 days, at which time parliament could vote on it again and pass it with a majority of votes and without it going back to the senate. If parliament is formed within the 180 day limit, it could still be passed. Although, at this stage that isn't going to happen.

The Democrats have always said they didn't want the leaders of the government or red shirts to get amnesty. They don't want to benefit from it.

They want justice to be served. Don't you?

[tomhell]

I am a optimist. I can see a evolution Thailand. Gone are the days of the ruling elites in bangkok.

They try very hard but cannot win because the people specially in the north dont want to be servants anymore.

First step was thaksin. Not really perfect but somehow necessary.

Next step is r e a l democracy without the old and new family/clans who hold the power. More common

people and grassroots movements.

Please people, dont be so frustated and negative about everything.

This situation is a big chance from power for a few people to power for the mayority. Specially for the

people in the north. Does anyone know if its possible to move the capital from Bangkok to a big city in the north under Thai law?

Have a good day

Tom

[whybother]

It is naive to think that there weren't any behind the scenes negotiations between the Dems and PT regarding the amnesty bill. I believe that there was a handshake agreement to go ahead with it. It was only when there war much more than the expected opposition to the bill that the Dems felt they could take advantage of the situation and they reneg on supporting the bill.

I for one feel that the amnesty bill would have been a good thing to wipe the slate clean and start afresh - RESTART THAILAND - to borrow from the protestors. Thailand COULD have been at peace today if the bill got passed. Instead, can anyone who loves Thailand honestly say that they like what's happening here today? No matter how disgusting the bill might have been, sometimes the means justify the ends.

If things really do get out of hand and Bangkok (and the rest of Thailand) falls into the abyss, the amnesty bill would have been a much smaller price to pay for peace and unity.

I think it is stupid to think that the Democrats "secretly supported" the amnesty bill, but started the protest movement and resigned from parliament because of it. I actually thought you were smarter than that.

Wiping the slate clean so that everyone can go back to 2005 and restart the protests against Thaksin doesn't seem like a smart idea either.

How do you get peace and unity when so many people, from BOTH sides, are against the amnesty bill?

[quagmirefg]

Escalation of confrontations between all sides will only lead to the Military Stepping in, which will result in a Coup.

In My Opinion; The Military will not wait for confronting parties to become further organized and armed.

They have been taking a watchful stance so far. They have the power to take complete control again as they have done numerous times in the past.

Nobody wants this. Not even the Military. But it can and will happen if things get worse.

[BuddyPinkham]

So the REDS are now calling for bloodshed while the PRDC has been mostly non-violent. Yeah, that's the way to do it! Have not noticed any government official condemning this, so they must be just sitting back and smiling now they have their own mobs to protect them. Once again as in 2010, these people will get away with their scorched earth campaign once again.

[lostinsurin]

"The red shirts' hard core is Thaksin's last resort..."

This quote another attempt to denigrate Electoral Democracy forces by suggesting they are devoid of political intent and are uni-dimensional... It is a form of Elitist arrogance implying they have the market cornered on Political awareness. Their coup-mongering friends with their shadowy supporters are self-servingly doing everything in their power to prevent majority-based governance in an Electoral Democracy, and has nothing to do with Thaksin or the performance of this Govt.

If there was a reference to Thaksin at this gathering in Korat yesterday, I missed it..I'm sure there was, but it was merely in passing....All I saw was a format whereby many regionally-based groups of the UDD/RS's, spoke in order throughout the day, exclaiming vociforously their refusal to buckle-under again, to anti-Democtats seeking to steal their voting selections.

This was not a case of UDD incitement...These were grass-roots voters demanding their votes be respected...It didn't take incitement by the UDD or PTP... These people spoke from the heart, many with fire in their eyes..It didn't take the UDD, or PTP to fire these people up....Suthep and his shadowy supporters with their street antics in BKK, plus their user-friendly courts and Independent agencies have done a very good job of that, all by themselves....In fact by the time Jatuporn and Nathawut spoke, it was later in the day, when many participants had already left.

It was noteworthy that unlike many of these gatherings when participants begin to drift home after Lunch. Yesterday the double-tiered levels of this Gymnasium remained packed throughout the day, listening to regional-based leaders of their own kind...No Centralized leadership needed. The PTP/UDD/RS resistance to Elitist anti-democrats is bottom-up, let no-one be confused about that.

The suggestion that the " PDRC co-leaders declared to end the game by launching an "onslaught" against the caretaker government and Shinawatra business empire" is folderol. Their onslaught is a crass challenge by an unelectable political minority against the majority in an Electoral Democracy. They are self-servingly challenging voter-majority selections, pretending it is against a caretaker Govt. A Govt. they are trying to characterize as having no electoral roots...It is those millions of roots they are up against, and those "majority" roots don't appreciate it, nor will accept it.

That was on prominent display in Korat yesterday.

The amnesty bill that really got this latest conflict started

Did this meeting consider what kind of reforms would be beneficial to Thai society?

Surely all these grass-roots representatives are well aware that the actual participation in this incomplete election was woefully low. Was this discussed and seen as a problem?

Did they find it relevant to discuss that or how to possibly improve it in the future?

These aren't just trick questions. I am genuinely curious to learn that the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members.

>"The amnesty bill that really got this latest conflict started"

This position is erroneous from the get-go.....This amnesty thing was merely a fabricated issue which could easily have been 'Parliamentarized". What started this latest attempt to overthrow an elected government by unelectables - not conforntation as is suggested - is merely a reprise of 2006, by many of the same players....When the amnesty thing didn't work, they went to anti-Thaksinism, then to preventing an election, and so on...With the common denominator being Coup-intentionism by an electoral minority.

>"Did this meeting consider what kind of reforms would be beneficial to Thai society?"

Not the intent of the meeting. Such a question can be "Parliamentarized". The intent of this meeting was not to engage in Parliamentary debate, but provide another shot-across-the-bow to the Elites and their coup intentions, that there will be "hell to pay" if they seek to achieve their objectives on the street, in user-friendly Judicial chambers or their so-called Independent Agencies....... Self-described independence which doesn't fool anyone.

>"Surely all these grass-roots representatives are well aware that the actual participation in this incomplete election was woefully low. Was this discussed and seen as a problem?

Coup-intentioned people maligning an incomplete election as if 'failure' is a fact, sure are afraid to finish it and tabulate it. Explaining that fact explains a lot.

>"These aren't just trick questions. I am genuinely curious to learn that the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members"

I accept them as such, and responded accordingly. Yesterday was definitely an assurance, not that one was needed, that "...the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members" "....At this point that is not an issue. Defending Electoral Democracy and respecting the votes of the electoral majority is the issue and the UDD/RS are in the forefront of that debate.

If the UDD/ RS are Democratic and for the people IS that ALL the people. Including Southerners?

Why don't the UDD step away from Thaksin and his wrongs (alleged or otherwise) and form a proper political party and engage in this Democracy on their own without the Shinawatra bias?

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If all else fails come with the "why don't"

So why don't you recomend this to Sargent Suthep, he is a bit short of good ideas.

[rickirs]

And now a word from the rest of the Thai People, aka the MAJORITY. They have as much right to Occupy Bangkok for the Government they support and the right to resist any police force for they only want to exercise their right to peaceful protests. They have as much right as Suthep to shut down opposition businesses, block public wayfares, and threaten opposition leaders with physical means. They have to same right to protect their own protest leaders with armed security guards and collect contributions from the public in the street. When Yin meets Yang, the circle will be complete and then maybe more rationale and reasonable leadership will find common solutions.

[Butcherbird]

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It appears you didn't understand my post.

Suthep and his followers rejected the amnesty bill and instead chose an undemocratic way to oust the government, blocking the city, ruining the economy, financially targeting companies that have nothing to do with Thaksin (AIS, Air Asia, Nestle, Maggi, Oishi, etc), creating more social division and effectively clearing the path to a civil war.

The amnesty bill would have wiped clean the actions of Thaksin, Suthep, Abhisit and others, which would have been a step back from the abyss, rather than a step ahead.

It's just my opinion. I know some people here have a hard time accepting that other people may have different opinions, so you are forgiven.

I understood your post perfectly, and it's clear you have no idea what's going on in Thailand.

The protesters don't support amnesty for any of those people. Even a lot of red shirts don't support amnesty for those people. People don't support the actions being wiped clean.

It is BECAUSE of the amnesty bill that Thailand is being pushed to the abyss.

The abyss was created in 2006 when there was a coup against the government.

The coup leaders committed treason against the 1997 constitution and promptly gave themselves amnesty. They then proceeded to rewrite the constitution which led to the new 2007 version. They also did what all coup leaders do, launched a viscious campaign of propaganda and slur and allegations backed up with flimsy verbal evidence against the PM they kicked out with their coup, found him guilty and made him go into exile.

That is pretty basic coup procedure.

The effects of 2006 and 2007 are the problem still being seen on the streets today in 2014, as has been the case in 2008 and 2010 and 2013. It was the starting point to all the problems.

The proposed amnesty bill is dead, what is going on now on the streets has nothing to do with it. The "elite" saw the amnesty bill as a good starting point to hit the PTP party as they saw red shirts also did not want it, they saw this unique unifying point as a way to commence the killing of the PTP goverment and party. This is why even when it has been clearly said the bill is dead, the protests continued and the PDRC changed the goalposts, no longer amnesty it was appointed government, then when people did not like this undemocratic thing it changed to being the regime of Thaksin.

The PDRC is just a front to attack PTP in the courts, the PDRC will continue to decalre victory tomorrow, continue to change thier goals and targets as it must remain on the streets whilst other forces work hard to trip PTP up so they fall foul of the courts decisions.

Redshirts know this. Everyone with a brain who knows Thai politics knows this, whether they admit it or not.

Why are redshirts getting more vocal now and tension rising ?

This is because the possible end game is near.

On March the 3rd the democratically elected 50% of the senate finish their term. This (thanks to the coup 2007 constitution which made the senate 50% elected and 50% appointed as opposed to the 1997 constitution which was a 100% elected senate) means that the senate is controlled by the remaining 50% of unelected appointed senators, who it is alleged are mostly PDRC supporters.

The new Senate elections are on March 30th, so between March 3rd and March 30th the unelected and non-democratic remaning 50% of senators control Thailand in some respect and the PDRC backers are said to control the majority of them.

The NACC has fast tracked the Yingluck investigation, even though she had no direct control of the rice scheme, they want perhaps to charge her around/after the 3rd of March.

By charging her she will be removed from office and this is where the unelected appointed remaining 50% of the senate comes in possibly.

if the NACC charge her after 3rd of March and she steps down, the Democrats/PDRC/Elite will then say only an elected MP can take over as caretaker PM as per the constitution. As there has been no election there are no elected MP's nobody can be caretaker PM and so this matter has to go to the senate for the senate to appoint a PM.

With the PDRC backers said to be controlling the senate with only is 50% appointed ones in session (the elected 50% are out from 3rd March), they can then appoint their "neutral" caretaker PM who of course will not be neutral at all.

With the PDRC backers then potentially in control of the senate and the caretaker PM position they can then work their magic and take back control of Thailand from the people and have their unelected system put into place.

Why do you think the EC appears not to want to complete the election by March 3rd ? It is all part of the plan. For this end game to work via the NACC, courts and the remaining unelected senators there cannot be a completed election and an elected MP in place at March 3rd. This explains why PTP are demanding election complete by March 3rd and EC are saying must be much later.

This is of course my opinion, but that is why in that opinion the redshirts are now getting vocal. They know what the plan is of the PDRC backers and so it is time for them to ramp up the tension and let the PDRC backers know that if they try to pull this off there will be major problems.

You have just written out the exact reason why the elections must be postponed and held at a later date when the rules for running this country have been re-written. Everything you have just stated justifies why so many people now recognise that reforms are urgently needed here. This country will not move forward until there are rules and mechanisms in place that allow transparency, equality and the rule of law to function. There is no point in having yet another election that delivers up another political party that simply does what it pleases. It does not matter which party gets back into power, the mechanisms here in Thailand are too weak and ill-defined to be effective. Reforms must come first.

I find it surprising the number of people on this forum who give the impression that they originate from western countries where this sort of breakdown in political and social life in their own country would not be tolerated and yet they will support a continuation of a broken system here. It is irrelevent who claims to have won the last election and the one before that, etc, etc, when you are presiding over such an appallingly embarrassing mess. Those that want this country to move forward should know better than to defend in any shape or form the present debacle.

[Linno]

Have to confirm that the village I live in isaan is not 'red'. They were swooned by the THB1,000,000 for each village. Now there is more debt than ever before. The rice scheme hss compounded the debt. Many families are losing their ancestral land to black market money lenders. They are hard working family oriented people who want to farm and feed their families. Their key focus is on keeping life going. They seem to be sick and tired of BKK politics with little faith in politicians of any persuasion. It is an incorrect assumption that the North East is 'red' or any other colour.

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[casualbiker]

"The red shirts' hard core is Thaksin's last resort..."

This quote another attempt to denigrate Electoral Democracy forces by suggesting they are devoid of political intent and are uni-dimensional... It is a form of Elitist arrogance implying they have the market cornered on Political awareness. Their coup-mongering friends with their shadowy supporters are self-servingly doing everything in their power to prevent majority-based governance in an Electoral Democracy, and has nothing to do with Thaksin or the performance of this Govt.

If there was a reference to Thaksin at this gathering in Korat yesterday, I missed it..I'm sure there was, but it was merely in passing....All I saw was a format whereby many regionally-based groups of the UDD/RS's, spoke in order throughout the day, exclaiming vociforously their refusal to buckle-under again, to anti-Democtats seeking to steal their voting selections.

This was not a case of UDD incitement...These were grass-roots voters demanding their votes be respected...It didn't take incitement by the UDD or PTP... These people spoke from the heart, many with fire in their eyes..It didn't take the UDD, or PTP to fire these people up....Suthep and his shadowy supporters with their street antics in BKK, plus their user-friendly courts and Independent agencies have done a very good job of that, all by themselves....In fact by the time Jatuporn and Nathawut spoke, it was later in the day, when many participants had already left.

It was noteworthy that unlike many of these gatherings when participants begin to drift home after Lunch. Yesterday the double-tiered levels of this Gymnasium remained packed throughout the day, listening to regional-based leaders of their own kind...No Centralized leadership needed. The PTP/UDD/RS resistance to Elitist anti-democrats is bottom-up, let no-one be confused about that.

The suggestion that the " PDRC co-leaders declared to end the game by launching an "onslaught" against the caretaker government and Shinawatra business empire" is folderol. Their onslaught is a crass challenge by an unelectable political minority against the majority in an Electoral Democracy. They are self-servingly challenging voter-majority selections, pretending it is against a caretaker Govt. A Govt. they are trying to characterize as having no electoral roots...It is those millions of roots they are up against, and those "majority" roots don't appreciate it, nor will accept it.

That was on prominent display in Korat yesterday.

The amnesty bill that really got this latest conflict started

Did this meeting consider what kind of reforms would be beneficial to Thai society?

Surely all these grass-roots representatives are well aware that the actual participation in this incomplete election was woefully low. Was this discussed and seen as a problem?

Did they find it relevant to discuss that or how to possibly improve it in the future?

These aren't just trick questions. I am genuinely curious to learn that the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members.

>"The amnesty bill that really got this latest conflict started"

This position is erroneous from the get-go.....This amnesty thing was merely a fabricated issue which could easily have been 'Parliamentarized". What started this latest attempt to overthrow an elected government by unelectables - not conforntation as is suggested - is merely a reprise of 2006, by many of the same players....When the amnesty thing didn't work, they went to anti-Thaksinism, then to preventing an election, and so on...With the common denominator being Coup-intentionism by an electoral minority.

>"Did this meeting consider what kind of reforms would be beneficial to Thai society?"

Not the intent of the meeting. Such a question can be "Parliamentarized". The intent of this meeting was not to engage in Parliamentary debate, but provide another shot-across-the-bow to the Elites and their coup intentions, that there will be "hell to pay" if they seek to achieve their objectives on the street, in user-friendly Judicial chambers or their so-called Independent Agencies....... Self-described independence which doesn't fool anyone.

>"Surely all these grass-roots representatives are well aware that the actual participation in this incomplete election was woefully low. Was this discussed and seen as a problem?

Coup-intentioned people maligning an incomplete election as if 'failure' is a fact, sure are afraid to finish it and tabulate it. Explaining that fact explains a lot.

>"These aren't just trick questions. I am genuinely curious to learn that the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members"

I accept them as such, and responded accordingly. Yesterday was definitely an assurance, not that one was needed, that "...the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members" "....At this point that is not an issue. Defending Electoral Democracy and respecting the votes of the electoral majority is the issue and the UDD/RS are in the forefront of that debate.

If the UDD/ RS are Democratic and for the people IS that ALL the people. Including Southerners?

Why don't the UDD step away from Thaksin and his wrongs (alleged or otherwise) and form a proper political party and engage in this Democracy on their own without the Shinawatra bias?

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If all else fails come with the "why don't"

So why don't you recomend this to Sargent Suthep, he is a bit short of good ideas.

I think Suthep stepped away from Thaksin A LONG TIME AGO.

And I'm confused. WHO is Sargent is he one of those foreign Anti government leaders Chalerm and Thaksin's terrier Tarit were going on about?

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[Robby nz]

This war drum meeting has shown Thaksins desperation to get the army to step I and take over, giving his thugs a real excuse to come out with their weapons and make it into a civil war.

They would not be fighting the army directly but picking out soft targets like we saw yesterday when markets were attacked alongside peaceful protesters.

There is no way the army could contain that, as is shown right now in the south.

A coup would give the Thaksin camp the opportunity to say a legitimate Government was overthrown by the military.

A civil war would, after sufficient death and destruction, likely bring the UN or US in and Thaksin would hope that he would return to reunite the country.

He has shown in the past that he does not care how many lives his actions cost as long as he has power.

Should he get his wish none of us would be safe for even if we live in peace with our communities, as I do, there will always be those who through jealousy, hate or

just seeing an opportunity to take from the supposed rich farang would be in for their chop.

I for one would not want to live in a country at war, would you ? so be careful what you wish for you posters who seem to manage to get the word coup in most of your posts.

Those who rant about Suthep take a moment to consider, has he of any of his group actually come out from their protest sites and killed anyone ?

The answer to that is no, for all the deaths and injuries have been caused when his group have been attacked, whether by attack or retaliation.

It is a sad indictment on the country and the police force in particular that any protesting group feels the need for guards to protect them and that they would want to arm themselves because they are being shot at and bombed.

There are those who continually say that Suthep wants a coup but I can think of no way that one could benefit him, it would be foolish to think that the army would put him in charge and he would become even more of a marked man and in greater danger as there would be no protesters around him..

[Local Drunk]

I've got to give it to Supthep... He's invented a new way to protest here. Look at the GSB with nearly 50 billion in withdraws and the people cancelling AIS.

All the protesters that are at the moment to busy or shy of the bombs are hitting them where it hurts the most. Not in a bloody BKK combat scenario like Juttaporn is proposing, but a nonviolent electronic way.

Now if the farmers that have been screwed by the government had money to deposit in any bank then they could play that game.

[Sirbergan]

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You have just written out the exact reason why the elections must be postponed and held at a later date when the rules for running this country have been re-written. Everything you have just stated justifies why so many people now recognise that reforms are urgently needed here. This country will not move forward until there are rules and mechanisms in place that allow transparency, equality and the rule of law to function. There is no point in having yet another election that delivers up another political party that simply does what it pleases. It does not matter which party gets back into power, the mechanisms here in Thailand are too weak and ill-defined to be effective. Reforms must come first.

I find it surprising the number of people on this forum who give the impression that they originate from western countries where this sort of breakdown in political and social life in their own country would not be tolerated and yet they will support a continuation of a broken system here. It is irrelevent who claims to have won the last election and the one before that, etc, etc, when you are presiding over such an appallingly embarrassing mess. Those that want this country to move forward should know better than to defend in any shape or form the present debacle.

I'm sure I'm not the only one with no faith whatsoever in The Dems and their cronies reforming the 2007 Constitution they drafted in the first place? Please note that I'm not in anyway criticizing it, as that's actually illegal.

I'm sure most people agree that a reform is needed. A reform by Suthep, the Dems and their cronies sounds an awful lot like anything but democracy to me, though.