Pheu Thai threatens to sue EC over 'poll failure'

[timewilltell]

This is because the possible end game is near and March the 3rd represents the start of a period of time where the "Judical Coup" will happen.

On March the 3rd the democratically elected 50% of the senate finish their term. This all (thanks to the coup 2007 constitution which made the senate 50% elected and 50% appointed as opposed to the 1997 constitution which was a 100% elected senate) means that the senate is controlled by the remaining 50% of unelected appointed senators, who it is alleged are mostly PDRC supporters.

The new Senate elections are on March 30th, so between March 3rd and March 30th the unelected and non-democratic remaning 50% of senators control Thailand in some respect and the PDRC backers are said to control the majority of them.

The NACC has fast tracked the Yingluck investigation, even though she had no direct control of the rice scheme, they want perhaps to charge her around/after the 3rd of March.

By charging her she will be removed from office and this is where the unelected appointed remaining 50% of the senate comes in possibly.

if the NACC charge her after 3rd of March and she steps down, the Democrats/PDRC/Elite will then say only an elected MP can take over as caretaker PM as per the constitution. As there has been no election there are no elected MP's nobody can be caretaker PM and so this matter has to go to the senate for the senate to appoint a PM.

With the PDRC backers said to be controlling the senate with only is 50% appointed ones in session (the elected 50% are out from 3rd March), they can then appoint their "neutral" caretaker PM who of course will not be neutral at all.

With the PDRC backers then potentially in control of the senate and the caretaker PM position they can then work their magic and take back control of Thailand from the people and have their unelected system put into place.

Why do you think the EC appears not to want to complete the election by March 3rd ? It is all part of the plan. For this end game to work via the NACC, courts and the remaining unelected senators there cannot be a completed election and an elected MP in place at March 3rd. This explains why PTP are demanding election complete by March 3rd and EC are saying must be much later.

For this to happen in short :

a/ EC has to hold up elections and not complete them before March 4th to ensure there is not a single elected MP anywhere in Thailand.

b/ March 4th has to come, so that the elected 50% of the senate has finished their term and the senate is controlled by the appointed, not elected, undemocratic remainder

c/ NACC has to charge Yingluck at their leisure during the period until March 30th when new senate elections are held, so she has to step down to defend herself.

d/ With no election completed and no elected MP anywhere in Thailand, the constitution states only an elected MP can be appointed caretaker PM. Democrats/PDRC then swamp the courts saying as there is not a complete election and no elected MP all power must go to the senate (the senate now just with appointed member left)

e/ The appointed senators then appoint their own caretaker PM and claim its all neutral and for the best interest of Thailand

f/ Game over for PTP and PDRC go home and Suthep claims victory !!!!!

BUT perhaps then

g/ Red shirts start protests at this process of coup

and you know where this is going to go from here................

This is of course my opinion. But it explains why perhaps the EC do not want to complete elections by March 4th.

An interesting point of view that may well be right - but I can't agree Yingluck had no control of the Rice Scheme - she invented it, abused it and hid the corruption in it with desperation that is reaching fever pitch now because the curtains will be drawn and the nakedness of the corruption exposed to all.

[Baerboxer]

"... A good first step would be to throw out all current politicians and replace them with people who represent and respect the people, not only themselves"

A very good encapsulation of the anti-democrat perspective. It is also true to the unelectable PAD-Dem agenda seeking to eliminate Electoral Democracy that produces these dastardly Politicians and prevents their goal of minority governance.

Agreement or otherwise, clearly establishes one's bonafides with respect to Democracy.

In your own mind i.e your particular world view of democracy.Thankfully others have different world views and their mental model of democracy does not include allowing corruption, open lies and cheating and self enrichment as acceptable elements of government because "we were elected" syndrome. Nor does it allow the idea that once elected one party can put themselves above the law and use it only when it favors them.

See the difference ............ no I thought not.

[Gweiloman]

"... A good first step would be to throw out all current politicians and replace them with people who represent and respect the people, not only themselves"

A very good encapsulation of the anti-democrat perspective. It is also true to the unelectable PAD-Dem agenda seeking to eliminate Electoral Democracy that produces these dastardly Politicians and prevents their goal of minority governance.

Agreement or otherwise, clearly establishes one's bonafides with respect to Democracy.

In your own mind i.e your particular world view of democracy.Thankfully others have different world views and their mental model of democracy does not include allowing corruption, open lies and cheating and self enrichment as acceptable elements of government because "we were elected" syndrome. Nor does it allow the idea that once elected one party can put themselves above the law and use it only when it favors them.

See the difference ............ no I thought not.

I have been noticing a rather strange phenomenon on TV recently. Some posters (most noticeably anti-gov) have taken to asking a question and instead of waiting for an answer, proceed immediately to answer it themselves (like the post above).

Can someone give an explanation? (and no, I won't answer the question myself )

[hellodolly]

That has nothing to do with being anti-democrat. It has something to do with the fact that most politicians in Thailand became politicians to serve their own needs and fill their pockets, not to serve the people. These politicians would have been banned from being elected in most "civilised" countries, and although politicians in other parts of the world don't stand up to too much scrutiny either, most of those in Thailand have shown a stunning disregard for the well-being of the nation and its citizens.

While I don't think Suthep's ideas would work, I have no problem understanding the frustrations of his followers. The only way out of this is to develop the country in a way that increases the awareness of the people and their possibilities to make their own choices. That is happening already, although slowly, and the slow speed will continue as long as Thai politicians continue to throw money and resources out of the window, and as long as the education system isn't reformed. It's an interesting paradox that many of those protesting in Bangkok under Suthep's leadership are children of farmers in the provinces, children who managed to get an education, a well paid job in Bangkok and have become a part of the Bangkok middle class.

With a better education system, and better infrastructure nationwide, particularly in Isan, this effect will spread to provincial cities as well, increasing the standard of living for all, and most importantly: give people real choice and not just the option of receiving cash handouts from whoever is in charge of the country for the time being.

While I don't think Suthep's ideas would work,

Have you another idea that will help to solve the problem today or let it work it's self out over the next 20 30 years.

There will be a big problem setting up an intern government that is non political and bent only on fairly running the government while at the same time reforming it. But I for one believe Thailand has the people to do the job.

There of course would have to be a time limit for them to do the job and then call an election. One of the things and most important along with reforming the election process would be reforming the education process.

I agree that Thailand probably have the people to do the job, but most of them stay away from politics because they don't want to involve themselves in a system totally damaged by corruption, greed and incompetence. The biggest challenge is probably to find one uniting, unpolitical leader for such a process. What is very certain is that, as long as the current situation persists, any election will only lead back to square one: Whoever the winner is, the loser will take to the streets. This has been a recurring pattern for the last decade, and there's no indication whatsoever that the next election will break the rhythm.

You say that

"most of them stay away from politics because they don't want to involve themselves in a system totally damaged by corruption, greed and incompetence"

That may be and probably is true. How ever it will not take most of them to do the job. As for returning to the same nonsense system we have now. I think not that is what they would be coming together to make it so that Thailand does not get in this position again.

My idea would be that all sectors of society be represented. They would be people with an open mind willing to change their plans for the betterment of all. I have no idea who they are as I do not get out that much or understand legalese languages but I feel confident that there are enough people willing to help better Thailand to do the job. Not calling any one a Tyrant but I am quite sure there are PTP members as well as members from other parties who are qualified and would be willing to participate if there leaders would let them. Academics , big business , small business, legal ,labor, white collar all fields would be involved.

It goes with out saying that no matter how good their intentions are Yingluck, Abhist and Suthep would not be a part of it.

They couldn't make it any worse than it is. The present government has been a big help they have shown us some of the loop holes that need plugging up. So you see it is not like they were starting off blind.

Big dreams but small compared to the benefits.

A united Thailand with a rule of law that does not protect the wrong doer just because they have money or they know some one.

The seed of a real education system and a real law enforcement. The benefits would change Thailand and the way people feel about it. They could all be proud.

The one tough nut to crack and maybe they couldn't would be the southern provinces but they would surely be represented on the committee and a reasonable start made at it.

Edit

The one thing they could never do is teach me to spell or remember to check my spell checker.

Edited February 24, 2014 by hellodolly

[HD 205]

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The headline references a "Poll failure"....What "poll failure"...States a thing as if it is fact...More accurately would be to reference it as "an attempted poll failure" at the present time by you-know-who.

The PTP/RS/UDD and the electoral majority whose votes the Elites are trying to both nullify with their coup-mongering on the streets of BKK, and now to obstruct by not completing the election and tabulating the results, are up against many elements of that Oligarchy, if you will.

The Elitist rooted elements posing as independent entities, be they this EC or their user-friendly judiciary, are arrayed against the electoral majority.

So for the PTP to threaten to take the EC to court is like asking one group of Opposition sympathizers to rule on another one.

Good luck with that.

If one thinks this is disrespectful of lily-white Independent Agencies and non-politicized courts, one isn't aware of the history of these things which have led the Voters to charge them as noted above.

Finish the blankety-blank election and count the ballots for heavens sake........Refusal by one political entity or another to avoid this by lofty sounding rationale trying not to sound political, doesn't fly...Everyone knows the game and the players....

With the exception of agenized beholden individuals, who desperately want to believe the non-politicization as noted, and try straight-facedly to convince others of it.

The electoral majority and electables, aren't buying it for one minute. They see it as nothing else but an electoral minority trying to muscle its' way into unelected governance, no different than 2006.

For crying out loud when are people going to learn. Thailand is a divided nation and no election under the present circumstances is going to bring it together.

The education system being what it is I can understand the red shirts believing that. How ever any one with a real education knows it will just continue if not intensify the situation. Reform is needed and not by a self serving clan. All levels of society must be let in on it.

Most nations are politically divided, just most respectable people accept that the vote of the people decides who is in office for periods of time.

Find me a reform commitee that won't serve one side more than the other and I'll find you a live dodo.

[zakk9]

" Caretaker Interior Minister Charupong Ruangsuwan would not accept the EC's invitation to visit Songkhla because it may lead to confrontation or clashes between local and government officials, which the EC might cite to further delay the election, he said. "

What a bunch of nonsense. Pheu Thai simply do not want to see what they do not want to see. Pheu Thai's suing threat against the EC is yet another unconstitutional tactic to strong-arm a constitutionally empowered institution - to do whatever they want them to do. Three days ago, Pheu Thai wanted to hold elections by March 30. Now, it's to have a full quorum - including 113 constituencies that were previously closed or only partially open, all advance polling, and all eight provinces that had no registered candidates or elections - in eight days ! Pheu Thai have come up with a new definition of madness. Throughout this whole drama, Pheu Thai have had their eyes blindfolded, refusing to see or discuss anything that contrasts with how they want things to be. Except - they keep changing their minds ! It's like a child who stamps on the floor demanding an ice-cream cone, is given one, and then demands pizza instead. Ladies and gentlemen, the new children of our day - Pheu Thai. The EC maintains - and has for weeks now - that the eight provinces without registered candidates need a new decree. As the EC is in authority to make such a recommendation, it is Pheu Thai's responsibility to consider it. Not only does Pheu Thai do not, they dismiss the EC and the courts altogether. Like the child who stamps his feet, they are not in a mood to discuss anything.

But let's just breathe the cool air for a moment and imagine what it must be like for Prompong - " Yes. I have a vision. All constituencies throughout the country will be opened, even the eight provinces in the South. There is no problem here. All these Southern provinces have to do is ...

1. Arrange registration of candidates.

2. Allow the candidates to campaign.

3. Allow the advance elections to take place.

4. Allow the election proper to take place.

" Yes. Yes, I know we can achieve all of that in eight days. I just know we can. We are Pheu Thai, after all. Nothing gets in our way. The EC doesn't get in our way. The NACC doesn't get in our way. The Criminal Court doesn't get in our way. The Civil Court doesn't get in our way. The Constitutional Court doesn't get in our way. The election laws do not get in our way. And certainly the constitution doesn't get in our way. How could it not work ? "

Sir, I have been reading over some of your political posts and I regretfully must give you a grade "F." Somebody has not done their homework I see. Reading The Nation, eh?

Now put away the local Thai newspapers and get busy reading the stuff they don't want you to read.

Your assignment tonight? GOOGLE: wikileaks + thailand.

So in your view, Wikileaks gives the full truth about Thailand? Well, professor, whatever academic institution added a title to your name, the may have to check on your research capabilities

[zakk9]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The headline references a "Poll failure"....What "poll failure"...States a thing as if it is fact...More accurately would be to reference it as "an attempted poll failure" at the present time by you-know-who.

The PTP/RS/UDD and the electoral majority whose votes the Elites are trying to both nullify with their coup-mongering on the streets of BKK, and now to obstruct by not completing the election and tabulating the results, are up against many elements of that Oligarchy, if you will.

The Elitist rooted elements posing as independent entities, be they this EC or their user-friendly judiciary, are arrayed against the electoral majority.

So for the PTP to threaten to take the EC to court is like asking one group of Opposition sympathizers to rule on another one.

Good luck with that.

If one thinks this is disrespectful of lily-white Independent Agencies and non-politicized courts, one isn't aware of the history of these things which have led the Voters to charge them as noted above.

Finish the blankety-blank election and count the ballots for heavens sake........Refusal by one political entity or another to avoid this by lofty sounding rationale trying not to sound political, doesn't fly...Everyone knows the game and the players....

With the exception of agenized beholden individuals, who desperately want to believe the non-politicization as noted, and try straight-facedly to convince others of it.

The electoral majority and electables, aren't buying it for one minute. They see it as nothing else but an electoral minority trying to muscle its' way into unelected governance, no different than 2006.

For crying out loud when are people going to learn. Thailand is a divided nation and no election under the present circumstances is going to bring it together.

The education system being what it is I can understand the red shirts believing that. How ever any one with a real education knows it will just continue if not intensify the situation. Reform is needed and not by a self serving clan. All levels of society must be let in on it.

Most nations are politically divided, just most respectable people accept that the vote of the people decides who is in office for periods of time.

Find me a reform commitee that won't serve one side more than the other and I'll find you a live dodo.

In most democratic countries, there is some degree of mutual respect between political opponents. In Thailand at the moment, that seems to be totally missing, making any progress hard to achieve.

[hellodolly]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The headline references a "Poll failure"....What "poll failure"...States a thing as if it is fact...More accurately would be to reference it as "an attempted poll failure" at the present time by you-know-who.

The PTP/RS/UDD and the electoral majority whose votes the Elites are trying to both nullify with their coup-mongering on the streets of BKK, and now to obstruct by not completing the election and tabulating the results, are up against many elements of that Oligarchy, if you will.

The Elitist rooted elements posing as independent entities, be they this EC or their user-friendly judiciary, are arrayed against the electoral majority.

So for the PTP to threaten to take the EC to court is like asking one group of Opposition sympathizers to rule on another one.

Good luck with that.

If one thinks this is disrespectful of lily-white Independent Agencies and non-politicized courts, one isn't aware of the history of these things which have led the Voters to charge them as noted above.

Finish the blankety-blank election and count the ballots for heavens sake........Refusal by one political entity or another to avoid this by lofty sounding rationale trying not to sound political, doesn't fly...Everyone knows the game and the players....

With the exception of agenized beholden individuals, who desperately want to believe the non-politicization as noted, and try straight-facedly to convince others of it.

The electoral majority and electables, aren't buying it for one minute. They see it as nothing else but an electoral minority trying to muscle its' way into unelected governance, no different than 2006.

For crying out loud when are people going to learn. Thailand is a divided nation and no election under the present circumstances is going to bring it together.

The education system being what it is I can understand the red shirts believing that. How ever any one with a real education knows it will just continue if not intensify the situation. Reform is needed and not by a self serving clan. All levels of society must be let in on it.

Most nations are politically divided, just most respectable people accept that the vote of the people decides who is in office for periods of time.

Find me a reform commitee that won't serve one side more than the other and I'll find you a live dodo.

Not so many nations that are politically divided have problems similar to Thailand's and worse. Some of them have dictators who ruthlessly step on any opposition. You really should get out more.

Reread my7 post I said I did not know them but out of 66,000,000 people I am sure they could come up with them. Also they would perhaps have political leanings but be open minded enough to listen to other people. As it is in one ear and out the other. For most politicians.

[rubl]

The headline references a "Poll failure"....What "poll failure"...States a thing as if it is fact...More accurately would be to reference it as "an attempted poll failure" at the present time by you-know-who.

The PTP/RS/UDD and the electoral majority whose votes the Elites are trying to both nullify with their coup-mongering on the streets of BKK, and now to obstruct by not completing the election and tabulating the results, are up against many elements of that Oligarchy, if you will.

The Elitist rooted elements posing as independent entities, be they this EC or their user-friendly judiciary, are arrayed against the electoral majority.

So for the PTP to threaten to take the EC to court is like asking one group of Opposition sympathizers to rule on another one.

Good luck with that.

If one thinks this is disrespectful of lily-white Independent Agencies and non-politicized courts, one isn't aware of the history of these things which have led the Voters to charge them as noted above.

Finish the blankety-blank election and count the ballots for heavens sake........Refusal by one political entity or another to avoid this by lofty sounding rationale trying not to sound political, doesn't fly...Everyone knows the game and the players....

With the exception of agenized beholden individuals, who desperately want to believe the non-politicization as noted, and try straight-facedly to convince others of it.

The electoral majority and electables, aren't buying it for one minute. They see it as nothing else but an electoral minority trying to muscle its' way into unelected governance, no different than 2006.

You soooo love democracy (without accountability).. Anyhow elections are not needed at this point because the corrupt PT/Shins will be dissolved and banned again for their over the top corruption. They never learn it seems.

Reading your posts reminds me of Nick Nostitz. Always a lot of theoretical BS and always blaming the elites and the dems and never ever ONE critical word about the Shins/PT and their corrupt practices. It's just too obvious Boppe.

The Rice Scam is an easy one if you love democracy. Many have warned Yingluck, including the WTO, World bank and IMF. Let's wait what the NACC has to say. We all agree that somebody should take the blame for spending THB 910,000,000,000 (tax payers money) without releasing any figures since Yingluck took office. Oh yes I forget, those are secret deals and therefor no transparency is needed. Right?

Regretfully the Professor must grade your post "F."

It appears you have not done your home work and lazily read the local papers for your information.

You know the Thai press is as crooked as a thai cop, no?

Your assignment is to GOOGLE wikileaks + thailand.

Interesting comment here "You are wrong and google to find out why". That may work in a university where people come to study, but here us poor souls like a wee bit more than the simple 'you're wrong'.

Maybe you posted on the wrong website?

[JRSoul]

This is because the possible end game is near and March the 3rd represents the start of a period of time where the "Judical Coup" will happen.

On March the 3rd the democratically elected 50% of the senate finish their term. This all (thanks to the coup 2007 constitution which made the senate 50% elected and 50% appointed as opposed to the 1997 constitution which was a 100% elected senate) means that the senate is controlled by the remaining 50% of unelected appointed senators, who it is alleged are mostly PDRC supporters.

The new Senate elections are on March 30th, so between March 3rd and March 30th the unelected and non-democratic remaning 50% of senators control Thailand in some respect and the PDRC backers are said to control the majority of them.

The NACC has fast tracked the Yingluck investigation, even though she had no direct control of the rice scheme, they want perhaps to charge her around/after the 3rd of March.

By charging her she will be removed from office and this is where the unelected appointed remaining 50% of the senate comes in possibly.

if the NACC charge her after 3rd of March and she steps down, the Democrats/PDRC/Elite will then say only an elected MP can take over as caretaker PM as per the constitution. As there has been no election there are no elected MP's nobody can be caretaker PM and so this matter has to go to the senate for the senate to appoint a PM.

With the PDRC backers said to be controlling the senate with only is 50% appointed ones in session (the elected 50% are out from 3rd March), they can then appoint their "neutral" caretaker PM who of course will not be neutral at all.

With the PDRC backers then potentially in control of the senate and the caretaker PM position they can then work their magic and take back control of Thailand from the people and have their unelected system put into place.

Why do you think the EC appears not to want to complete the election by March 3rd ? It is all part of the plan. For this end game to work via the NACC, courts and the remaining unelected senators there cannot be a completed election and an elected MP in place at March 3rd. This explains why PTP are demanding election complete by March 3rd and EC are saying must be much later.

For this to happen in short :

a/ EC has to hold up elections and not complete them before March 4th to ensure there is not a single elected MP anywhere in Thailand.

b/ March 4th has to come, so that the elected 50% of the senate has finished their term and the senate is controlled by the appointed, not elected, undemocratic remainder

c/ NACC has to charge Yingluck at their leisure during the period until March 30th when new senate elections are held, so she has to step down to defend herself.

d/ With no election completed and no elected MP anywhere in Thailand, the constitution states only an elected MP can be appointed caretaker PM. Democrats/PDRC then swamp the courts saying as there is not a complete election and no elected MP all power must go to the senate (the senate now just with appointed member left)

e/ The appointed senators then appoint their own caretaker PM and claim its all neutral and for the best interest of Thailand

f/ Game over for PTP and PDRC go home and Suthep claims victory !!!!!

BUT perhaps then

g/ Red shirts start protests at this process of coup

and you know where this is going to go from here................

This is of course my opinion. But it explains why perhaps the EC do not want to complete elections by March 4th.

Instead of dropping casual lies, why don't you try to justify your statements? Start with "fast tracked the Yingluck investigation, even though she had no direct control of the rice scheme".

The investigation is over a year old and found ample evidence that the PM who promoted the rice pledging policy during the election, enacted it while in government, and then appointed herself chair of the Rice Policy Committee SHOULD have direct control of that policy and bear the responsibility for its failings.

As she also advocated STOP Corruption campaign, subsequently reduced funding for the anti-corruption agencies, and suborned the DSI to a political tool, she also bears responsibility for the unchecked corruption evident in the scheme.

To top it all, when it is inevitably proven that her and her family have profited from the scheme without declaring conflict of interest, she will face further charges of corruption and abuse of public office.

Edited February 25, 2014 by JRSoul

[zakk9]

" Caretaker Interior Minister Charupong Ruangsuwan would not accept the EC's invitation to visit Songkhla because it may lead to confrontation or clashes between local and government officials, which the EC might cite to further delay the election, he said. "

What a bunch of nonsense. Pheu Thai simply do not want to see what they do not want to see. Pheu Thai's suing threat against the EC is yet another unconstitutional tactic to strong-arm a constitutionally empowered institution - to do whatever they want them to do. Three days ago, Pheu Thai wanted to hold elections by March 30. Now, it's to have a full quorum - including 113 constituencies that were previously closed or only partially open, all advance polling, and all eight provinces that had no registered candidates or elections - in eight days ! Pheu Thai have come up with a new definition of madness. Throughout this whole drama, Pheu Thai have had their eyes blindfolded, refusing to see or discuss anything that contrasts with how they want things to be. Except - they keep changing their minds ! It's like a child who stamps on the floor demanding an ice-cream cone, is given one, and then demands pizza instead. Ladies and gentlemen, the new children of our day - Pheu Thai. The EC maintains - and has for weeks now - that the eight provinces without registered candidates need a new decree. As the EC is in authority to make such a recommendation, it is Pheu Thai's responsibility to consider it. Not only does Pheu Thai do not, they dismiss the EC and the courts altogether. Like the child who stamps his feet, they are not in a mood to discuss anything.

But let's just breathe the cool air for a moment and imagine what it must be like for Prompong - " Yes. I have a vision. All constituencies throughout the country will be opened, even the eight provinces in the South. There is no problem here. All these Southern provinces have to do is ...

1. Arrange registration of candidates.

2. Allow the candidates to campaign.

3. Allow the advance elections to take place.

4. Allow the election proper to take place.

" Yes. Yes, I know we can achieve all of that in eight days. I just know we can. We are Pheu Thai, after all. Nothing gets in our way. The EC doesn't get in our way. The NACC doesn't get in our way. The Criminal Court doesn't get in our way. The Civil Court doesn't get in our way. The Constitutional Court doesn't get in our way. The election laws do not get in our way. And certainly the constitution doesn't get in our way. How could it not work ? "

Sir, I have been reading over some of your political posts and I regretfully must give you a grade "F." Somebody has not done their homework I see. Reading The Nation, eh?

Now put away the local Thai newspapers and get busy reading the stuff they don't want you to read.

Your assignment tonight? GOOGLE: wikileaks + thailand.

So in your view, Wikileaks gives the full truth about Thailand? Well, professor, whatever academic institution added a title to your name, the may have to check on your research capabilities

The wikileaks cables from the US Ambassador to the State Department have been ignored by the Thai press and are often blocked from Thai readers. A shame really. It is the story of the century in Thailand but most have never seen it.

Also the book that takes the wikileak cables and intertwines them with the secret history of Thailand is quite revealing and mandatory reading in my class.

Next time you are out of the country....read it.

The Wikileaks cables is the history of Thailand according to the American ambassador(s), nothing more. Of course these cables are blocked in Thailand. There's censorship in Thailand, since politicians on all sides of the table want to control what people read. An informed population would be a disaster for most Thai politicians. Add to that certain laws about the family that cannot be mentioned and you are there.

I have read the "book" you are talking about. The author must really, really hate Thailand. He picks the most negative quotes from an assortment of sources and combines them into this "book", adding little of value himself. Apart from that, he has been accused repeatedly of running Thaksin's errands and being economically supported by him. I don't know if that is true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Professor Kevin]

So the US Ambassador was telling porkies and the Reuters reporter is paid by Thaksin?

[BlueNoseCodger]

It is a major miracle the EC commissioners have stuck with it for so long what with all the abuse, threats and intimidation they have had to put up with.

But that could be the plan of course, attack them until they have had enough and resign, then replace them with someone who will do whatever they are told.

Good on the EC for sticking to their guns and going by the law, they are the ones who know election law and will be responsible if they break that law.

Except of course a couple of posters on here who are experts.

Definition of an expert : someone who has got to more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

Yeh, they promised to resign back in December unless they were allowed to act as mediator between Suthep and the government. That didn't happen, so why didn't they resign?

More to the point, why weren't they sacked right there and then by the Senate. Since the EC has a legal duty to run elections, threatening to block elections on condition of being mediator was a gross violation of their duty.

It's pretty clear, the Senate is stuffed full of yellows, the EC they chose is a yellow and they're trying to kill the election and have a judicial coup.

The problem Thailand has is the 2007 constitution that let them make the senate half unelected.

[rubl]

It is a major miracle the EC commissioners have stuck with it for so long what with all the abuse, threats and intimidation they have had to put up with.

But that could be the plan of course, attack them until they have had enough and resign, then replace them with someone who will do whatever they are told.

Good on the EC for sticking to their guns and going by the law, they are the ones who know election law and will be responsible if they break that law.

Except of course a couple of posters on here who are experts.

Definition of an expert : someone who has got to more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

Yeh, they promised to resign back in December unless they were allowed to act as mediator between Suthep and the government. That didn't happen, so why didn't they resign?

More to the point, why weren't they sacked right there and then by the Senate. Since the EC has a legal duty to run elections, threatening to block elections on condition of being mediator was a gross violation of their duty.

It's pretty clear, the Senate is stuffed full of yellows, the EC they chose is a yellow and they're trying to kill the election and have a judicial coup.

The problem Thailand has is the 2007 constitution that let them make the senate half unelected.

The problem Thailand has is called "Shinawatra".

To think that Thailand wouldn't have no problems if the senate was 100% electable is just as daft as the continued stating of "democracy is voting" with Pheu Thai having a reputation of disregarding votes the moment they're counted and 'a mandate allows us to do what we want'.

BTW 'promised'? Wasn't that 'threatened'? That what Pheu Thai people and CMPO head Pol. Captain Chalerm regularly do?

[BlueNoseCodger]

It is a major miracle the EC commissioners have stuck with it for so long what with all the abuse, threats and intimidation they have had to put up with.

But that could be the plan of course, attack them until they have had enough and resign, then replace them with someone who will do whatever they are told.

Good on the EC for sticking to their guns and going by the law, they are the ones who know election law and will be responsible if they break that law.

Except of course a couple of posters on here who are experts.

Definition of an expert : someone who has got to more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

Yeh, they promised to resign back in December unless they were allowed to act as mediator between Suthep and the government. That didn't happen, so why didn't they resign?

More to the point, why weren't they sacked right there and then by the Senate. Since the EC has a legal duty to run elections, threatening to block elections on condition of being mediator was a gross violation of their duty.

It's pretty clear, the Senate is stuffed full of yellows, the EC they chose is a yellow and they're trying to kill the election and have a judicial coup.

The problem Thailand has is the 2007 constitution that let them make the senate half unelected.

The problem Thailand has is called "Shinawatra".

To think that Thailand wouldn't have no problems if the senate was 100% electable is just as daft as the continued stating of "democracy is voting" with Pheu Thai having a reputation of disregarding votes the moment they're counted and 'a mandate allows us to do what we want'.

BTW 'promised'? Wasn't that 'threatened'? That what Pheu Thai people and CMPO head Pol. Captain Chalerm regularly do?

No, PT got 53% of the vote at the last election, so they won, and likely 75% at this election so they won again, the extra by-elections are too few to change the result. It's normal for the losing party to bitch and moan, they always do. We voted for democracy, even WSJ can see that!

And a majority of votes should allow them to do their policies, so for example, they decided we needed the rails improved and high speed trains, and they're the elected government so that should happen. But despite being the majority, it didn't happen. That 2007 Constitution problem again.

Really you lot seem to think the loser gets a say in government, but they don't. They sit on the opposition benches and complain about everything, that is what oppositions do. That is what they're supposed to do.

Your Abhisit is supposed to figure out what new policies he can come up with that his side support, and also the majority support, and push those at the next election. By winning more votes, he's uniting more Thai people in common policies.

Instead you ask your coup friends, they cook something up, like this, we have 4 years of terrible leadership, the economy tanks, the people are miserable and protest.

Quit trying to redefine democracy as something it isn't, and either get electable leaders and policies, or change the party to a more electable one.

Edited February 25, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[HD 205]

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For crying out loud when are people going to learn. Thailand is a divided nation and no election under the present circumstances is going to bring it together.

The education system being what it is I can understand the red shirts believing that. How ever any one with a real education knows it will just continue if not intensify the situation. Reform is needed and not by a self serving clan. All levels of society must be let in on it.

Most nations are politically divided, just most respectable people accept that the vote of the people decides who is in office for periods of time.

Find me a reform commitee that won't serve one side more than the other and I'll find you a live dodo.

In most democratic countries, there is some degree of mutual respect between political opponents. In Thailand at the moment, that seems to be totally missing, making any progress hard to achieve.

In most democratic countries, there is some degree of mutual respect between political opponents.

And that's the problem we should be fighting for Thailand!

[zakk9]

So the US Ambassador was telling porkies and the Reuters reporter is paid by Thaksin?

Not necessarily, but there's more to a country's history than the view of the official representative from a single country. Much more. I know and have known several ambassadors during my time here, and although many of them are dedicated to the task of gathering as much information as possible about the country they are in, their limited time frame and the fact that they represent one nation only, limit their scope.

Andrew MacGregor Marshall hasn't worked for Reuters since 2011. Google him

[HD 205]

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The headline references a "Poll failure"....What "poll failure"...States a thing as if it is fact...More accurately would be to reference it as "an attempted poll failure" at the present time by you-know-who.

The PTP/RS/UDD and the electoral majority whose votes the Elites are trying to both nullify with their coup-mongering on the streets of BKK, and now to obstruct by not completing the election and tabulating the results, are up against many elements of that Oligarchy, if you will.

The Elitist rooted elements posing as independent entities, be they this EC or their user-friendly judiciary, are arrayed against the electoral majority.

So for the PTP to threaten to take the EC to court is like asking one group of Opposition sympathizers to rule on another one.

Good luck with that.

If one thinks this is disrespectful of lily-white Independent Agencies and non-politicized courts, one isn't aware of the history of these things which have led the Voters to charge them as noted above.

Finish the blankety-blank election and count the ballots for heavens sake........Refusal by one political entity or another to avoid this by lofty sounding rationale trying not to sound political, doesn't fly...Everyone knows the game and the players....

With the exception of agenized beholden individuals, who desperately want to believe the non-politicization as noted, and try straight-facedly to convince others of it.

The electoral majority and electables, aren't buying it for one minute. They see it as nothing else but an electoral minority trying to muscle its' way into unelected governance, no different than 2006.

For crying out loud when are people going to learn. Thailand is a divided nation and no election under the present circumstances is going to bring it together.

The education system being what it is I can understand the red shirts believing that. How ever any one with a real education knows it will just continue if not intensify the situation. Reform is needed and not by a self serving clan. All levels of society must be let in on it.

Most nations are politically divided, just most respectable people accept that the vote of the people decides who is in office for periods of time.

Find me a reform commitee that won't serve one side more than the other and I'll find you a live dodo.

Not so many nations that are politically divided have problems similar to Thailand's and worse. Some of them have dictators who ruthlessly step on any opposition. You really should get out more.

Reread my7 post I said I did not know them but out of 66,000,000 people I am sure they could come up with them. Also they would perhaps have political leanings but be open minded enough to listen to other people. As it is in one ear and out the other. For most politicians.

#I repeat : Find me a reform commitee that won't serve one side more than the other and I'll find you a live dodo.]

Everything else you say is just meaninglesss propaganda............. no? prove me wrong.

[Professor Kevin]

So the US Ambassador was telling porkies and the Reuters reporter is paid by Thaksin?

Not necessarily, but there's more to a country's history than the view of the official representative from a single country. Much more. I know and have known several ambassadors during my time here, and although many of them are dedicated to the task of gathering as much information as possible about the country they are in, their limited time frame and the fact that they represent one nation only, limit their scope.

Andrew MacGregor Marshall hasn't worked for Reuters since 2011. Google him

Agreed but I would trust the confidential US Embassy cables before I would give any weight to the Thai press. Half the Thai press is crooked and the other half scared shi*less.

I know Andrew. He resigned so he could print the story about Thailand. If Reuters printed it, their entire staff in Thailand would be at risk.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Professor Kevin

[zakk9]

And a majority of votes should allow them to do their policies, so for example, they decided we needed the rails improved and high speed trains, and they're the elected government so that should happen. But despite being the majority, it didn't happen.

This single statement shows how little you know and how incompetent the politicians you follow are. Thailand has never needed high speed trains.

- High speed trains are only suitable between large centres of population. Thailand only has one large centre of population. It's called Bangkok.

- High speed trains are only efficient if there are a minimum of stops, so even if it was built in Thailand, it would only serve the population of the cities.

- High speed trains are expensive, and even with a much higher income than they currently have, farmers would hardly be able to afford travelling on them.

- In Thailand, low-cost planes would be cheaper and more environmentally friendly when construction of the network is counted in. And believe me, I'm a tree hugger.

- Even with relatively high ticket costs, the 700 billion baht PTP have calculated the high speed train network to cost, it would take 300 years to make it profitable.

- The extremely slow process of acquiring land for such a project in Thailand would mean that building a high speed train network would take decades. I doubt it would take decades to spend the money though.

What Thailand needs, and Isan in particular, is a functional, normal speed railway network. A network that is available to everybody in Thailand and that makes travelling between provinces fast and economical. A network that makes it attractive to build industry in Isan, so that those who cannot make a living from rice and other agricultural products don't have to travel to Phuket, Bangkok or Pattaya to find a job, or send their daughters to &lt;deleted&gt; foreigners at the same locations. They can finance such a rail network by abandoning the absurd subsidising of gas for cars and trucks, a scheme that mostly serves the middle class, owners of transport companies and taxi passengers in Bangkok and that costs the Thai tax payers a whopping 200 billion baht per year (correct me if I'm wrong).

High speed trains are great poster objects and the paragon of populist policies. Because you and other loyal followers believe in these pipe dreams, the politicians get more billions to waste, and more billions to stuff their velvet lined pockets with. And when the project fails, like most populist schemes do sooner or later, it's always the fault of someone else.

Get real. There ain't no silver bullet.

Edited February 25, 2014 by zakk9

[zakk9]

So the US Ambassador was telling porkies and the Reuters reporter is paid by Thaksin?

Not necessarily, but there's more to a country's history than the view of the official representative from a single country. Much more. I know and have known several ambassadors during my time here, and although many of them are dedicated to the task of gathering as much information as possible about the country they are in, their limited time frame and the fact that they represent one nation only, limit their scope.

Andrew MacGregor Marshall hasn't worked for Reuters since 2011. Google him

Agreed but I would trust the confidential US Embassy cables before I would give any weight to the Thai press. Half the Thai press is crooked and the other have scared shi*less.

I know Andrew. He resigned so he could print the story about Thailand. If Reuters printed it, their entire staff in Thailand would be at risk.

Without being personal: There are several news sources I would believe before I turned to the American ambassador.

[rubl]

The problem Thailand has is called "Shinawatra".

To think that Thailand wouldn't have no problems if the senate was 100% electable is just as daft as the continued stating of "democracy is voting" with Pheu Thai having a reputation of disregarding votes the moment they're counted and 'a mandate allows us to do what we want'.

BTW 'promised'? Wasn't that 'threatened'? That what Pheu Thai people and CMPO head Pol. Captain Chalerm regularly do?

No, PT got 53% of the vote at the last election, so they won, and likely 75% at this election so they won again, the extra by-elections are too few to change the result. It's normal for the losing party to bitch and moan, they always do. We voted for democracy, even WSJ can see that!

And a majority of votes should allow them to do their policies, so for example, they decided we needed the rails improved and high speed trains, and they're the elected government so that should happen. But despite being the majority, it didn't happen. That 2007 Constitution problem again.

Really you lot seem to think the loser gets a say in government, but they don't. They sit on the opposition benches and complain about everything, that is what oppositions do. That is what they're supposed to do.

Your Abhisit is supposed to figure out what new policies he can come up with that his side support, and also the majority support, and push those at the next election. By winning more votes, he's uniting more Thai people in common policies.

Instead you ask your coup friends, they cook something up, like this, we have 4 years of terrible leadership, the economy tanks, the people are miserable and protest.

Quit trying to redefine democracy as something it isn't, and either get electable leaders and policies, or change the party to a more electable one.

Your data is incorrect. Whether on purpose or by accident I do not know.

Thailand General Elections 2011-07-03

Registered electorate: 46,904,823

Total votes cast, both valid/invalid*: 35,469,811 (75.62%) (* one group promoted the 'no vote' which would be counted as invalid)

party votes % of cast, % of regist.

Pheu Thai party: 15,744,190 votes (44.38% of cast, 33.57% of regist.) 265 seats

Democrat party: 11,433,762 votes (32.24% of cast, 24.38% of regist.) 159 seats

[HD 205]

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The headline references a "Poll failure"....What "poll failure"...States a thing as if it is fact...More accurately would be to reference it as "an attempted poll failure" at the present time by you-know-who.

The PTP/RS/UDD and the electoral majority whose votes the Elites are trying to both nullify with their coup-mongering on the streets of BKK, and now to obstruct by not completing the election and tabulating the results, are up against many elements of that Oligarchy, if you will.

The Elitist rooted elements posing as independent entities, be they this EC or their user-friendly judiciary, are arrayed against the electoral majority.

So for the PTP to threaten to take the EC to court is like asking one group of Opposition sympathizers to rule on another one.

Good luck with that.

If one thinks this is disrespectful of lily-white Independent Agencies and non-politicized courts, one isn't aware of the history of these things which have led the Voters to charge them as noted above.

Finish the blankety-blank election and count the ballots for heavens sake........Refusal by one political entity or another to avoid this by lofty sounding rationale trying not to sound political, doesn't fly...Everyone knows the game and the players....

With the exception of agenized beholden individuals, who desperately want to believe the non-politicization as noted, and try straight-facedly to convince others of it.

The electoral majority and electables, aren't buying it for one minute. They see it as nothing else but an electoral minority trying to muscle its' way into unelected governance, no different than 2006.

For crying out loud when are people going to learn. Thailand is a divided nation and no election under the present circumstances is going to bring it together.

The education system being what it is I can understand the red shirts believing that. How ever any one with a real education knows it will just continue if not intensify the situation. Reform is needed and not by a self serving clan. All levels of society must be let in on it.

Most nations are politically divided, just most respectable people accept that the vote of the people decides who is in office for periods of time.

Find me a reform commitee that won't serve one side more than the other and I'll find you a live dodo.

Not so many nations that are politically divided have problems similar to Thailand's and worse. Some of them have dictators who ruthlessly step on any opposition. You really should get out more.

Reread my7 post I said I did not know them but out of 66,000,000 people I am sure they could come up with them. Also they would perhaps have political leanings but be open minded enough to listen to other people. As it is in one ear and out the other. For most politicians.

What has getting out more got do with anything? I get out enough, don't worry about me, but thanks for the concern - *uh oh, I think I'm rising to unnecessary baiting*.

1. My whole point is that Thais are still learning the rules, so you tell me what reform will instill the change in people so that they will respect the vote of the other side?

2. And out of 66mil, who should come up with the reform committee? Suthep and the boys? no? Who then, you tell me?

Should it be put to the people, like a vote? But there's no point in that because voting is seemingly not what you think should be upheld.

3. Who should be in the committee, I don't mean names, I mean ideas of groups.

For instance, academics and scholars? How do you guarantee non-biased decision making? Because for proper reforms, you need proper guarantees.

I don't think you can guarantee it.

Also, I'm still waiting to hear your opinion on why everyone else seemed to call 2011 a landslide win except for "dems" and yellows?

[HD 205]

Actually dolly, I just read your reply about the 52% vote "against" Yingluck. It was absolutely nonsensical but just thought I'd let you know I've read it now.

I had like 30 replies since I last was online, so it was hard to keep track of who had replied to me - without spending too much time on here, other more important things to be doing with my time ya know

Edited February 26, 2014 by HD 205