Why it isn't a class struggle: Thai opinion

[webfact]

STOPPAGE TIME
Why it isn't a class struggle
Tulsathit Taptim

BANGKOK: -- One side insists it's a campaign against massive corruption and abuse of democratic power. The other claims it's an attempt by the country's elites to wrest back political control from the poor. Both claim to be right, so let's meet in the middle. How does a "power play" sound?

Some claim the mini-run on the Government Savings Bank, countered by depositors' attempts to stem the bleeding, was symbolic of a "class struggle" going on in Thailand. Seriously? Demonise either side if you will, but romanticising our crisis misses the point by a long shot.

First things first, it's not a "rich against poor" showdown. It's a rich against rich fight with the poor caught in the middle. Someone in government is right in saying that some farmers have been victimised while others have been used. He is wrong for claiming that the farmers have been victimised and used exclusively by one side.

Unfortunately, caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra backed the man up in what could have otherwise been one of her most articulate political speeches. To her, the rice pledging scheme is a noble programme turned sour by people who did not want to see farmers getting Bt15,000 per tonne of rice. Truth is, opponents of the programme do not object to the poor having a better life. But they see the rice scheme as a ploy designed with vested interests in mind and susceptible to enormous corruption and financial mishaps.

The current crisis derives from a campaign against Yingluck and her big brother, and they aren't poor. Thaksin Shinawatra, while visiting a rural village as prime minister, was ridiculed for draping himself in what looked like a luxury-brand Fendi towel. Google their family photos and you can have fun calculating how many tonnes of rice would need to be sold to buy just one of their handbags.

Is Nuttawut Saikuar poor? His family was reportedly involved in a land deal worth millions. Is Chalerm Yoobamrung poor? Check out his car collection. Is Jatuporn Prompan poor? All we need to do is look at his bank accounts. Is Arisman Pongruangrong poor? Or Surapong Tovichakchaikul? Or Noppadon Pattama? The list could go on and on.

The grass-root red-shirts are poor. But are they fighting political persecution as the term "class struggle" seems to suggest? Or are they simply fighting for a political party controlled one way or another by those mentioned above?

Are they being taxed more than the rich? Of course not, although they may find it a lot harder than the rich to avoid taxes if their incomes are high enough to be taxable. Are their children facing discrimination at work? Do surnames really matter in Thailand when it comes to employment or promotion?

One can argue that this is a red-shirt "struggle" to protect a party that gave them better welfare. Health benefits offered by Pheu Thai are good, but are they the reason why middle-class people are up in arms against the ruling party? The answer is no. Yingluck may have said "Yes" last week, but she was attempting to cover up staggering flaws in the rice scheme. Her big brother has been saying "Yes" all along, but he has more than just the rice programme to cover up.

If it's a class struggle, why is the anti-government network aiming to make shares of the Shinawatra business empire crash? What do stocks of giant corporates have to do with a supposed "anti-poor" sentiment? Why are there protest marches to raise funds for farmers unpaid under the rice pledging scheme?

What is there in the demands of the anti-government movement that suggests Thailand's middle class do not want their less-fortunate compatriots to be better off. What is there to indicate that the middle class want new laws on marriage, education, employment or healthcare to maintain or increase their "privileges"? At best, the anti-government network is fighting corruption that is threatening to get out of hand. At worst, it is not playing by the rules of the political game. But either way, it is not a class struggle.

The campaign was triggered by an amnesty bill, which was altered from the original version designed exclusively for the grass-roots people involved in the 2010 uprising. It might have been a class struggle if the original bill had caused a middle-class uproar. But people took to Bangkok streets blowing whistles only because the bill was changed to cover Thaksin and his controversial wealth.

What else has been said on the rally stages? Corruption in the rice scheme, of course. Questions have been raised over the wisdom of buying rice from farmers way above the market price, but those are economic questions, not a political attempt to keep farmers at the bottom of the social ladder. Allegations of nepotism? Again, nothing to do with the poor.

What about charter amendments? Superficially, the opposition to a fully elected Senate might be seen as an effort to limit the political power of the poor, but we have two possibilities here. The first is that the senatorial issue is about Thaksin. The second is that the senatorial issue is about the middle class fearing a pro-poor Senate will advocate anti-rich laws. Which scenario is more likely?

Talking about possibilities, again, ultimately we have two to ponder. The first is that what is happening in Thailand is a power play, with the poor sometimes being used as shields and sometimes as ammunition. The other possibility is that this is a genuine class struggle. And that class struggle must be between a selfish middle class wanting to hold onto whatever privileges they enjoy, and the politically oppressed grassroots willing to die for rights to elect senators and yet to allow governments they support to side-step Parliament to sign international treaties.

Which is more likely?

Writer's note: I can't possibly say anything that can do justice to innocent souls claimed so cruelly by the political crisis. To some of us, what's important is who did it, what one's personal reaction is, and why "peace" is a must right now. The victims' loved ones couldn't care less, and heartbreakingly so. Theirs is the only "Why?" being asked with zero political intent.


-- The Nation 2014-02-26

[Somtamnication]

It never has been a class struggle. It is a struggle about things of which we cannot talk about.

[Thai at Heart]

It's about having access to the trough for the next 50 years. One lot of oligarchs had it for the last 50, this is about settling who gets shoved out or stays for the next.

[NongKhaiKid]

The men of the people Mr. T, Suthep, Chalerm et al have more than enough to be getting on with.

Class struggle, oh please ?

[virtualtraveller]

On the one hand you can describe it as a battle between the old elites versus a new elites. On the other you can describe it as a battle between an old feudal system at the ballot box and a new determination for modern democratic principals of one independent-mind, one vote.

[binjalin]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

[Thai at Heart]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Once its gone, they won't be in any hurry to give democracy back. There will be a shinawatra waiting at a moments notice to spin up a politic party.

[Davidhere]

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power

They've already been whining to cling to power

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/706639-yingluck-stresses-she-will-stay-to-the-last-minute/

[Tatsujin]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Who exactly are the "elite" you refer to?

People with money? Business people? Someone else? Please clarify just "who" you think the elite is at the moment . . . and "why" you think they are elite . . . I'm very curious to know.

[jaidam]

Yingluck Shinawatra, granddaughter of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai, born into incredible riches and power, one of the world's richest women without ever having done a days work in her life. Leading a grassroots revolt against the rich and privileged? For real?

[angsta]

Look - I am rich and went to Thammasat so when I tell you this isn't a class struggle listen to me you ignorant peasants. Not that you can read this anyway, we don't bother wasting our time giving you an education. We want to continue telling you what to do but we would like to do it with an elected Government, or we will just use the army again. You have been warned!

Seriously though, who buys The Nation?

[canuckamuck]

So many greedy hands in the pie. How can it end well?

[expat888]

It's interesting that Thailand plods along as if there is no political upheaval. The protests are annoying but doesn't really disrupt anything. It's very unfortunate that people are getting killed at the protest sites and I feel for the the people that have lost family members, but other than downward trend in tourism there hasn't been any meaningful disruption. The government says that tourism only accounts for about 3% of Thailand's income so that's not a big deal.

My point is: The military is now saying if this situation continues the nation will collapse. Really? Possible a reason, although unwarranted, for the military to step in.

[Bocking]

Of course it's a 'Class Struggle' .. Rich v Rich for control of the Poor

The Poor are the majority, so whoever wins the hearts and minds of the poor controls access to the trough.

Once access to the Trough has been established, they work hard to maintain it and increasing its content.

Therefore the Poor are of vital importance to both sides, and for both sides, it's vitally important to make sure

that they remain Poor.

Beyond the bluster, nobody really cares about the plight of the poor, Dems or PTP, PDRC or UDD leaderships alike.

They only care about themselves and as they plunder the Nation, the poor do the work AND pay the ultimate price.

How many of the 21 dead and 735 injured do we think were millionaires?

How many of those claiming from stages or in parliament to be helping the Poor do we think are millionaires?

[PatOngo]

It's about having access to the trough for the next 50 years. One lot of oligarchs had it for the last 50, this is about settling who gets shoved out or stays for the next.

Pure and simple....It's all about incessant greed from both sides.

[Blackmirage2013]

This is NOT a class struggle. It is a struggle between people who have been bribed and are protecting their dishonest caretaker the Shinawatra clan and those who are sick and tired of corruption.

It has been characterized as a class struggle because coincidentally poor and so-called rich people are fighting each other.

This is typical Thailand, where people twist issues to suit their needs. Fact is the poor people are poor BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE POOR.

There are plenty of examples of hard working people who started off poor but who now, because of HARD WORK AND investing money in education instead of alcohol and prostitutes and minor wives, have been successful.

I am tired of hearing lazy people use this as an excuse for their sorry state. Even if they had a lot of money, they would throw it away and be poor again.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Blackmirage2013

[MaxLee]

"Why it isn't a class struggle"

Because it's a FACE struggle.

[moonao]

The Nation can take their "stoppage time" opinions and shove them up their a**.

Its getting extremely tedious listening to their obfuscation and one sided reporting from their journalists.

[DavidBonnie]

All leaders . . . . . . .are members of the ruling classes but their ideology can differ . . . that's why this IS a class war.

[canuckamuck]

Of course it's a 'Class Struggle' .. Rich v Rich for control of the Poor

The Poor are the majority, so whoever wins the hearts and minds of the poor controls access to the trough.

Once access to the Trough has been established, they work hard to maintain it and increasing its content.

Therefore the Poor are of vital importance to both sides, and for both sides, it's vitally important to make sure

that they remain Poor.

Beyond the bluster, nobody really cares about the plight of the poor, Dems or PTP, PDRC or UDD leaderships alike.

They only care about themselves and as they plunder the Nation, the poor do the work AND pay the ultimate price.

How many of the 21 dead and 735 injured do we think were millionaires?

How many of those claiming from stages or in parliament to be helping the Poor do we think are millionaires?

Of course the problem here is that the Democrat side did a piss poor job of winning the hearts and minds of the poor because they didn't think it was worthwhile. They had to settle for the small middle class, which isn't any better in a fight than the elites. If there would have been some sort of connection with the northeast the rice fiasco would have been sufficient to bring down PTP. They had a golden opportunity to do this by the rule book

Now its a mess and democracy is out the window.

Time for a do-over.

Edited February 26, 2014 by canuckamuck

[binjalin]

This is NOT a class struggle. It is a struggle between people who have been bribed and are protecting their dishonest caretaker the Shinawatra clan and those who are sick and tired of corruption.

It has been characterized as a class struggle because coincidentally poor and so-called rich people are fighting each other.

This is typical Thailand, where people twist issues to suit their needs. Fact is the poor people are poor BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE POOR.

There are plenty of examples of hard working people who started off poor but who now, because of HARD WORK AND investing money in education instead of alcohol and prostitutes and minor wives, have been successful.

I am tired of hearing lazy people use this as an excuse for their sorry state. Even if they had a lot of money, they would throw it away and be poor again.

coincidentally poor and so-called rich people are fighting each other

Jing lorrrrrrrrr

Edited February 26, 2014 by binjalin

[Crushdepth]

The Nation can take their "stoppage time" opinions and shove them up their a**.Its getting extremely tedious listening to their obfuscation and one sided reporting from their journalists.

Not half as tedious as listening to you. That's an impressive piece of hypocrisy by the way.

[mrtoad]

All leaders . . . . . . .are members of the ruling classes but their ideology can differ . . . that's why this IS a class war.

Please don't suggest that Thaksin is a champion of the poor.

The only ideology most of these turds have, is Plundering state monies to enrich ones self.

[TexasRanger]

Power and greed, selfish politicians. Nothing new, and will never change, in any country.

[Robby nz]

No this is no class struggle the vast majority of those out there protesting don't see themselves as any class, just ordinary people who want things improved for themselves and their kids..

The class business itself is a lot of BS by those (academics) who would lump people into catagories because it suites their research.

Of course there are those who somehow think themselves better than others who have grasped this and like to call themselves high class so they can look down on others.

Unfortunately the protests which started of as a legitimate protest against an abhorrent piece of legislation which would have absolved, mostly, politicians from crime has turned into a hate fest with no real thought as to "Where to from here"

The 'where to from here' is what needs to be addressed now by all sides and even the 'all sides' business needs to be resolved with people coming together to look for common ground not a battlefield.

[binjalin]

Yingluck Shinawatra, granddaughter of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai, born into incredible riches and power, one of the world's richest women without ever having done a days work in her life. Leading a grassroots revolt against the rich and privileged? For real?

well let me answer this became it IS a fair point...

please do not assume that those who are sympathetic to the 'red' cause are necessarily supporters of the Shins! personally I don't want Khun Thaksin back although I do believe he has been demonized for political purposes.

many of us support the present government BECAUSE it was democratically elected and the bullies who can't win at the polls want to disrupt them BECAUSE they lost - if this is not true WHY did Suthep not push for reforms when in power? WHY did Abhisit not say all these things back when he was PM? they had plenty of opportunity to push reform - they did not? WHY?

Only when they realised they could not win did they start their 'reform whinge' and let's 'destroy Bangkok' if we can't win an election

The clever part is they 'manipulated' the genuine feelings of people against corruption and so let's demonize this figure, throw out his family, an have an 'unelected elite' in power - I mean why bother with that silly thing called democracy?

and so it's not about supporting the rich Shins rather it's about supporting the poor, disenfranchised in Thailand and supporting DEMOCRACY - if Dems had won I would support them too (but probably not like them very much)

surely we MUST safeguard the basic human rights of Free Speech (no censorship/les majeste) and Free Elections (no blocking voting) and, of course, put pressure from ALL quarters against corruption (number ONE priority)

[billsmart]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Who exactly are the "elite" you refer to?

People with money? Business people? Someone else? Please clarify just "who" you think the elite is at the moment . . . and "why" you think they are elite . . . I'm very curious to know.

I generally agree with Binjalin and I define the "elite" as the old power structure who do TEND TO BE wealthy, well-educated, industrialists, capitalists, etc..., and are concentrated in Bangkok. What PRIMARILY DEFINES them as elitists is they are ANTI-DEMOCRATIC and believe the common people of Thailand who TEND TO BE poor, uneducated, small business owners or day-workers, farmers and dispersed throughout the rural areas are incapable of governing themselves. The "elites" believe they are the only ones who should be allowed to govern. A government built on this type of philosophy is usually some form of OLIGARCHY based on some combination of their qualities (wealth, education, birth, etc...).

That is how I define "elitists"...

[gemini81]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Who exactly are the "elite" you refer to?

People with money? Business people? Someone else? Please clarify just "who" you think the elite is at the moment . . . and "why" you think they are elite . . . I'm very curious to know.

I generally agree with Binjalin and I define the "elite" as the old power structure who do TEND TO BE wealthy, well-educated, industrialists, capitalists, etc..., and are concentrated in Bangkok. What PRIMARILY DEFINES them as elitists is they are ANTI-DEMOCRATIC and believe the common people of Thailand who TEND TO BE poor, uneducated, small business owners or day-workers, farmers and dispersed throughout the rural areas are incapable of governing themselves. The "elites" believe they are the only ones who should be allowed to govern. A government built on this type of philosophy is usually some form of OLIGARCHY based on some combination of their qualities (wealth, education, birth, etc...).

That is how I define "elitists"...

Sounds custom tailored to fit personal interests. Where to draw the line on a timeline? 'New' wealthy folks aren't among the elite? Sure? It simply means those with wealth and power well above (the law?) and beyond that of the ordinary working class. Can't exclude some particular families from that general description-regardless of when they acquired it- fact is if they have it, then they are among the 'elite' aren't they? Its a general term usually, talking about the ones who run the show.......

[tomhell]

maybe fear from the ruling elites of a socialist revolution

when you have nothing - you have nothing to loose

[Sakeopete]

Both sides are corrupt no doubt about it but at least the Dems have some intelligent people that might come up with some good policies. No chance of that on the PTP side with one man running the whole show. Lets face it Thaksin failed every business he started before gaining a monopoly that led to AIS. We all know that payments had to be made to get that monopoly to start with.