We favour a democratic Lanna republic, Chiang Mai group says

[Confuscious]

<snip>

Finally, as another poster in this thread stated, Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world.

The farmers in Issaan knows that and Thaksin has been helping the Issaan people for many years.

He would be welcomed back in Issaan and help the Issaan community and economic.

Not what Suthep did with his rally,

Rant on as much as you want, it is a fact that the idea of segregation will be the only way out for the Bangkokian hate culture.

You make it sound like Thaksin helped the people of Isaan with his own money.

How do you reckon he would go without tax payers money to split between himself and "the people"?

Thaksin's most effective policies were reducing rural poverty^[25] and the introduction of universal healthcare, allowing him to galvanise the vast and largely untapped support base of the rural poor, especially in the populous northeast.^[62]Thaksin Shinawatra was the first prime minister of Thailand to complete a full term in office, and his rule is generally agreed to have been one of the most distinctive in the country's modern history.^[60] He initiated many eye-catching policies that distinguished him from his predecessors.^[61] They affected the economy, public health, education, energy, social order, drug suppression and international relations. He gained one re-election victory.^[62]

His Cabinet consisted of a broad coalition of academics, former student leaders, and former leaders of the Palang Dharma Party, includingPrommin Lertsuridej, Chaturon Chaisang, Prapat Panyachatraksa, Surapong Suebwonglee, Somkid Jatusripitak, Surakiart Sathirathai, andSudarat Keyuraphan. Traditional regional power brokers also flocked to his government.

However, his government was increasingly accused of dictatorship, demagogy, corruption, conflicts of interest, human rights offences, acting undiplomatically, using legal loopholes and displaying hostility towards a free press. A highly controversial leader, he has also been the target of numerous allegations of lèse majesté, treason, usurping religious and royal authority, selling assets to international investors, and religious desecration.^[42][43]

Economic Policies[edit]

Thaksin's government designed its policies to appeal to the rural majority, initiating programs like village-managed microcredit development funds, low-interest agricultural loans, direct injections of cash into village development funds (the SML scheme), infrastructure development, and the One Tambon One Product (OTOP) rural small and medium enterprise development program.

Thaksin's economic policies helped Thailand recover from the 1997 Asian financial crisis and substantially reduce poverty. GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht in 2006. Thailand repaid its debts to the International Monetary Fund two years ahead of schedule.

Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 46% from 2001 to 2006.^[63] Nationwide poverty fell from 21.3% to 11.3%.^[25] Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure ofincome inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000) ).^[64] The Stock Exchange of Thailand outperformed other markets in the region. After facing fiscal deficits in 2001 and 2002, Thaksin balanced the national budget, producing comfortable fiscal surpluses for 2003 to 2005. Despite a massive program of infrastructure investments, a balanced budget was projected for 2007.^[65] Public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 41 per cent in September 2006.^[29][30] Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006.^[66]

Critics say Thaksinomics is little more than a Keynesian-style economic stimulus policy re-branded. Others claimed that the policies got the rural poor "hooked on Thaksin's hand-outs."^[67]

Thaksin helped legalize Thailand's massive underground lottery system numbers game (Thai: หวย) to run by the Government Lottery Office. Lottery sales of approx. 70 billion THB (2 billion USD) were used for social projects, including the "One District, One Scholarship" program. The Thaksin government also privatized MCOT, a large television and radio broadcaster.^[68]

After the 2006 coup, many of Thaksin's economic policies were ended, the OTOP program was rebranded, the Government Lottery Office's program was deemed illegal, and the government nationalized several media outlets and energy companies. However, economists from Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) published a report indicating that many of the populist policies had not boosted the economy and some were by coincidence.^[69]

Healthcare policies[edit]

Thaksin initiated two key healthcare policies: subsidized universal health care and low-cost universal access to anti-retroviral HIV medication (ARVs). Thaksin's 30-baht/visit universal healthcare program won the applause of the general public, but was criticized by many doctors and officials.^[70][71] Prior to the program's introduction, a large portion of the population had no health insurance and only limited access to healthcare. The program helped increase access to healthcare from 76% of the population to 96%.^[72] The program also increased workloads for health care employees, and caused many doctors to change to higher paying careers. It has also been criticized for being underfunded by the government. The program caused some hospitals to seek alternative sources of income, leading to a boom in medical tourism, with 1.3 million foreign patients earning Thailand 33 billion THB (approx. 800 million USD) in 2005.^[73][74]

Post-coup public health minister Mongkol Na Songkhla called the 30-baht program a "marketing gimmick" and claimed that the government would "very soon" stop charging patients any fees for visits to state hospitals.^[75] Many people who received the treatment claimed that they prefer drugs from pharmacists than from facilities covered by the scheme and almost half of the patients were dissatisfied with the service given by the facilities.^[70] The universal health care scheme raised a debt of 7.7 billion baht.^[76]

During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.^[77] Although successful in expanding access to HIV medication, there have been concerns that a free trade agreement with the US could endanger Thailand's ability to produce generic HIV treatments.^[78] Thaksin allowed the estimated 2.3 million migrant workers in Thailand to register and seek health coverage under the Thai national healthcare system. They were also eligible for work permits at the end of the registration period, entitling them to full labor protection. Democrat Party Labour Group Committee Pongsak Plengsaeng criticized the move, claiming that it would lead to unemployment amongst Thais.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

[Tatsujin]

When bangkok receives 14 times the public service spending per head to the rest of the country, there has to be something that needs to be done to modify that situation.

Can I ask where the "14 times" figure comes from?

[uptheos]

Next step, all foreign money to be deposited in the PDRL Bank..........or move.

Gives you a sort of warm fuzzy feeling.

[smovi57]

<snip>

Finally, as another poster in this thread stated, Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world.

The farmers in Issaan knows that and Thaksin has been helping the Issaan people for many years.

He would be welcomed back in Issaan and help the Issaan community and economic.

Not what Suthep did with his rally,

Rant on as much as you want, it is a fact that the idea of segregation will be the only way out for the Bangkokian hate culture.

You make it sound like Thaksin helped the people of Isaan with his own money.

How do you reckon he would go without tax payers money to split between himself and "the people"?

Thaksin's most effective policies were reducing rural poverty^[25] and the introduction of universal healthcare, allowing him to galvanise the vast and largely untapped support base of the rural poor, especially in the populous northeast.^[62]Thaksin Shinawatra was the first prime minister of Thailand to complete a full term in office, and his rule is generally agreed to have been one of the most distinctive in the country's modern history.^[60] He initiated many eye-catching policies that distinguished him from his predecessors.^[61] They affected the economy, public health, education, energy, social order, drug suppression and international relations. He gained one re-election victory.^[62]

His Cabinet consisted of a broad coalition of academics, former student leaders, and former leaders of the Palang Dharma Party, includingPrommin Lertsuridej, Chaturon Chaisang, Prapat Panyachatraksa, Surapong Suebwonglee, Somkid Jatusripitak, Surakiart Sathirathai, andSudarat Keyuraphan. Traditional regional power brokers also flocked to his government.

However, his government was increasingly accused of dictatorship, demagogy, corruption, conflicts of interest, human rights offences, acting undiplomatically, using legal loopholes and displaying hostility towards a free press. A highly controversial leader, he has also been the target of numerous allegations of lèse majesté, treason, usurping religious and royal authority, selling assets to international investors, and religious desecration.^[42][43]

Economic Policies[edit]

Thaksin's government designed its policies to appeal to the rural majority, initiating programs like village-managed microcredit development funds, low-interest agricultural loans, direct injections of cash into village development funds (the SML scheme), infrastructure development, and the One Tambon One Product (OTOP) rural small and medium enterprise development program.

Thaksin's economic policies helped Thailand recover from the 1997 Asian financial crisis and substantially reduce poverty. GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht in 2006. Thailand repaid its debts to the International Monetary Fund two years ahead of schedule.

Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 46% from 2001 to 2006.^[63] Nationwide poverty fell from 21.3% to 11.3%.^[25] Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure ofincome inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000) ).^[64] The Stock Exchange of Thailand outperformed other markets in the region. After facing fiscal deficits in 2001 and 2002, Thaksin balanced the national budget, producing comfortable fiscal surpluses for 2003 to 2005. Despite a massive program of infrastructure investments, a balanced budget was projected for 2007.^[65] Public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 41 per cent in September 2006.^[29][30] Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006.^[66]

Critics say Thaksinomics is little more than a Keynesian-style economic stimulus policy re-branded. Others claimed that the policies got the rural poor "hooked on Thaksin's hand-outs."^[67]

Thaksin helped legalize Thailand's massive underground lottery system numbers game (Thai: หวย) to run by the Government Lottery Office. Lottery sales of approx. 70 billion THB (2 billion USD) were used for social projects, including the "One District, One Scholarship" program. The Thaksin government also privatized MCOT, a large television and radio broadcaster.^[68]

After the 2006 coup, many of Thaksin's economic policies were ended, the OTOP program was rebranded, the Government Lottery Office's program was deemed illegal, and the government nationalized several media outlets and energy companies. However, economists from Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) published a report indicating that many of the populist policies had not boosted the economy and some were by coincidence.^[69]

Healthcare policies[edit]

Thaksin initiated two key healthcare policies: subsidized universal health care and low-cost universal access to anti-retroviral HIV medication (ARVs). Thaksin's 30-baht/visit universal healthcare program won the applause of the general public, but was criticized by many doctors and officials.^[70][71] Prior to the program's introduction, a large portion of the population had no health insurance and only limited access to healthcare. The program helped increase access to healthcare from 76% of the population to 96%.^[72] The program also increased workloads for health care employees, and caused many doctors to change to higher paying careers. It has also been criticized for being underfunded by the government. The program caused some hospitals to seek alternative sources of income, leading to a boom in medical tourism, with 1.3 million foreign patients earning Thailand 33 billion THB (approx. 800 million USD) in 2005.^[73][74]

Post-coup public health minister Mongkol Na Songkhla called the 30-baht program a "marketing gimmick" and claimed that the government would "very soon" stop charging patients any fees for visits to state hospitals.^[75] Many people who received the treatment claimed that they prefer drugs from pharmacists than from facilities covered by the scheme and almost half of the patients were dissatisfied with the service given by the facilities.^[70] The universal health care scheme raised a debt of 7.7 billion baht.^[76]

During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.^[77] Although successful in expanding access to HIV medication, there have been concerns that a free trade agreement with the US could endanger Thailand's ability to produce generic HIV treatments.^[78] Thaksin allowed the estimated 2.3 million migrant workers in Thailand to register and seek health coverage under the Thai national healthcare system. They were also eligible for work permits at the end of the registration period, entitling them to full labor protection. Democrat Party Labour Group Committee Pongsak Plengsaeng criticized the move, claiming that it would lead to unemployment amongst Thais.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

These are all lies.

[whybother]

<snip>

Finally, as another poster in this thread stated, Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world.

The farmers in Issaan knows that and Thaksin has been helping the Issaan people for many years.

He would be welcomed back in Issaan and help the Issaan community and economic.

Not what Suthep did with his rally,

Rant on as much as you want, it is a fact that the idea of segregation will be the only way out for the Bangkokian hate culture.

You make it sound like Thaksin helped the people of Isaan with his own money.

How do you reckon he would go without tax payers money to split between himself and "the people"?

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

My question still stands. Your wiki cut and paste doesn't answer it.

Edited March 2, 2014 by whybother

[slapout]

The "hippy thinking" of the 60 and early 70's has been discovered again. For a northern commune, thumb your nose at the law and social order of those in authority.

Some people will do just about anything to get their picture/name in print. There might be a large portion of the northern population who were not asked for input, and would consider this proposal with the same respect that this group of thugs are awarded.

[ginjag]

ginjag, on 02 Mar 2014 - 09:36, said:

smovi57, on 02 Mar 2014 - 09:05, said:

Thaksin always one move ahead.

Like Montenegro, then Dubai ???

Or anywhere else in the world, except Thailand. You do understand that Thaksin is free to move around as he wishes, that abhisit and the dems were lying about the Interpol warrant, and did so for over two years?

Sorry Thaksin is restricted in some areas, also some places he will not visit because he can easily be extradited.

In any case let him have a retirement on the Thai money, on the run, not situation I would feel comfortable in.

Pity you HAD HAD HAD to mention Abhisit again. You love the dear Shins your choice not mine.

Freedom of movement we all want, Problem is he wants that and also wants to still keep stirring S### up here. He is finished with politics, HE SAID, now who's a liar.????

[Just1Voice]

Something I find amusing is that before my stroke, when I would take bike trips around the North and North/East, people in all areas would ask me why I like Thailand. Depending on where I was, I would reply that I love the Lanna Thai, or Lao Thai, or Issan Thai better than I do the Siam Thai of BKK. Invariably this would result in huge smiles, and comments of "Smart Farang" or "Good Farang", and immediately endear me to those around me.

I just turned 66 and my wife is 10 years younger. I have been told multiple times by various family members that if something happened to my wife, don't worry, because they are proud "Lanna Thai", family is first, and I would always be taken care of. I legally adopted my wife's son 3 years ago when he was 26. After we finished and were ready to leave, he asked me and his mom to wait outside. Half an hour later he came out and showed me the documents where he had legally changed his last name to mine, along with his new ID card bearing his new name. When I asked why he did that, he didn't hesitate to tell me: "I did it to honor the man who is my father."

In the 6+ years I've been here, I've only had one incident with 4 young "punks", which didn't turn out so good for them. Other than that, I love the people of the North & North East. They are proud of their heritage and fiercely defend it. And from what I've seen, there is no love lost between them and those of BKK. I don't know about succession, but I feel that most of them would agree to some type of separation from BKK would be good for them.

[tim armstrong]

What fascinates me about this idea is that the proponents apparently have no idea about the 'nitty gritty' of such an idea. i.e. Who pays for roads, healthcare, schools, communication systems. How will they find money - separate tax system ? -for sure. Their rhetoric is just so far removed from reality. To want to be a separate State because 'no one else likes us' - sounds like a bunch of little kids squabbling in a playground..

[Ricardo]

Next step, all foreign money to be deposited in the PDRL Bank..........or move.

Gives you a sort of warm fuzzy feeling.

Surely not even citizens of Montenegro, Nicaragua or Cambodia ?

And the financial-provisions wouldn't apply to people who hold assets, or bank, in such respected financial-centres as the B.V.I., would they ?

Better to ensure that the D.P.R.L. is itself an international money-laundering tax-haven tax-efficient global-investment-centre !

I always fancied owning my own tax-haven, myself !

[Mosha]

PDRL sound more like the Tooting Popular Front.

[smovi57]

If thaksin comes back he will find all of you tv fourm members and put you in re-education camps. So be careful what you say about his wife, and dont blow any whistles at her, because she loses face.

[chooka]

Will there be 90 day reporting? Could we get citizenship?

[uptheos]

PDRL sound more like the Tooting Popular Front.

It's the People's Popular Front of Tooting.

[smovi57]

Something I find amusing is that before my stroke, when I would take bike trips around the North and North/East, people in all areas would ask me why I like Thailand. Depending on where I was, I would reply that I love the Lanna Thai, or Lao Thai, or Issan Thai better than I do the Siam Thai of BKK. Invariably this would result in huge smiles, and comments of "Smart Farang" or "Good Farang", and immediately endear me to those around me.

I just turned 66 and my wife is 10 years younger. I have been told multiple times by various family members that if something happened to my wife, don't worry, because they are proud "Lanna Thai", family is first, and I would always be taken care of. I legally adopted my wife's son 3 years ago when he was 26. After we finished and were ready to leave, he asked me and his mom to wait outside. Half an hour later he came out and showed me the documents where he had legally changed his last name to mine, along with his new ID card bearing his new name. When I asked why he did that, he didn't hesitate to tell me: "I did it to honor the man who is my father."

In the 6+ years I've been here, I've only had one incident with 4 young "punks", which didn't turn out so good for them. Other than that, I love the people of the North & North East. They are proud of their heritage and fiercely defend it. And from what I've seen, there is no love lost between them and those of BKK. I don't know about succession, but I feel that most of them would agree to some type of separation from BKK would be good for them.

you are wrong, and it sounds like yor thai family is trying to hustle you!

[pedro01]

Something I find amusing is that before my stroke, when I would take bike trips around the North and North/East, people in all areas would ask me why I like Thailand. Depending on where I was, I would reply that I love the Lanna Thai, or Lao Thai, or Issan Thai better than I do the Siam Thai of BKK. Invariably this would result in huge smiles, and comments of "Smart Farang" or "Good Farang", and immediately endear me to those around me.

I just turned 66 and my wife is 10 years younger. I have been told multiple times by various family members that if something happened to my wife, don't worry, because they are proud "Lanna Thai", family is first, and I would always be taken care of. I legally adopted my wife's son 3 years ago when he was 26. After we finished and were ready to leave, he asked me and his mom to wait outside. Half an hour later he came out and showed me the documents where he had legally changed his last name to mine, along with his new ID card bearing his new name. When I asked why he did that, he didn't hesitate to tell me: "I did it to honor the man who is my father."

In the 6+ years I've been here, I've only had one incident with 4 young "punks", which didn't turn out so good for them. Other than that, I love the people of the North & North East. They are proud of their heritage and fiercely defend it. And from what I've seen, there is no love lost between them and those of BKK. I don't know about succession, but I feel that most of them would agree to some type of separation from BKK would be good for them.

You were doing well there until you talked of "no love lost between them and those of BKK"

Where does this come from?

Do people really not understand that the population of Bangkok is mostly people that came in from the provinces, including a huge proportion from the North East?

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Something I find amusing is that before my stroke, when I would take bike trips around the North and North/East, people in all areas would ask me why I like Thailand. Depending on where I was, I would reply that I love the Lanna Thai, or Lao Thai, or Issan Thai better than I do the Siam Thai of BKK. Invariably this would result in huge smiles, and comments of "Smart Farang" or "Good Farang", and immediately endear me to those around me.

I just turned 66 and my wife is 10 years younger. I have been told multiple times by various family members that if something happened to my wife, don't worry, because they are proud "Lanna Thai", family is first, and I would always be taken care of. I legally adopted my wife's son 3 years ago when he was 26. After we finished and were ready to leave, he asked me and his mom to wait outside. Half an hour later he came out and showed me the documents where he had legally changed his last name to mine, along with his new ID card bearing his new name. When I asked why he did that, he didn't hesitate to tell me: "I did it to honor the man who is my father."

In the 6+ years I've been here, I've only had one incident with 4 young "punks", which didn't turn out so good for them. Other than that, I love the people of the North & North East. They are proud of their heritage and fiercely defend it. And from what I've seen, there is no love lost between them and those of BKK. I don't know about succession, but I feel that most of them would agree to some type of separation from BKK would be good for them.

Your situation and your experiences with your adopted son are just wonderful and I have something quite similar which brings me great job and contentment every day.

I agree and concur with your thoughts & comments about the people of the North and the North East and like you my very long-term home is within this geography.

However I suggest there's more to consider. I've been lucky, over more than 3 decades I've had many family, friendship, work and professional interactions with Thais from all parts of Thailand and all walks of life, and to be honest I have great respect for them all, regardless of which part they come from. I wouldn't single out any location to be better or worse etc. All countries / provinces / cities / villages etc., have good people and bad people.

But with all respect what has it got to do with dividing Thailand into two countries?

[DrTuner]

So since Thaksin failed to get back by slipping in an amnesty, now he'll try to get his own plot, build a militia and take the country by force ?

[timber]

King Taksin of Lanna, well he wants to be King, and expects his subjects to do what ever and sacrifice what ever.

He will ultimately cause a lot more hardship for the sake of his ego and blindsided subjects. Like the generals in

the Vietnam war, "Makes me feel bad about sacrificing those civilians, but you got to do what you got to do."

[ginjag]

If thaksin comes back he will find all of you tv fourm members and put you in re-education camps. So be careful what you say about his wife, and dont blow any whistles at her, because she loses face.

He would not have any Idea what re-educations camps were. he has never seen the likes. Only the Shins have a fantastic natural knack of English -spoken gift.

[AleG]

Well maybe you believe their two faced propaganda that decentralization is the only thing that they want, after all we all got a right to our own opinion (not in the "Democratic" Lanna Republic, where singers with different opinion are not tolerated)

You refer to the Red Shirts as a single monolithic entity, when in fact they are far from it. I say this as someone who actually knows many of them. There is a whole spectrum of views in the movement, as we can see from the event referred to in the OP, where the speaker called for only decentralisation while some people in the crowd were wearing headbands advocating more.

Decentralisation would take a lot of steam out of the movement, since the North and NE could vote in their own politicians to manage their own internal affairs without fear of coups and the like. Many in the Red Shirts would feel like they have achieved enough of their goals. It would also defuse the situation in Bangkok, since even if Lanna-Isan voted in Thaksin as Prime Minister, he would not be able to have any involvement with affairs outside his consituency (and probably not even be able to travel south since I doubt the Bangkok government would approve amnesty for him).

However, if the decentralisation movement is suppressed, then the more radical elements in the Red Shirts will continue to gain support, and Thailand will continue towards civil war. Sadly I feel that this is the most likely outcome.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Then they should support the PDRC because one of their platform points is desentralization and elected provincial governors. Has Thaksin or any of his proxies ever proposed the same thing?

[AleG]

Something I find amusing is that before my stroke, when I would take bike trips around the North and North/East, people in all areas would ask me why I like Thailand. Depending on where I was, I would reply that I love the Lanna Thai, or Lao Thai, or Issan Thai better than I do the Siam Thai of BKK. Invariably this would result in huge smiles, and comments of "Smart Farang" or "Good Farang", and immediately endear me to those around me.

I just turned 66 and my wife is 10 years younger. I have been told multiple times by various family members that if something happened to my wife, don't worry, because they are proud "Lanna Thai", family is first, and I would always be taken care of. I legally adopted my wife's son 3 years ago when he was 26. After we finished and were ready to leave, he asked me and his mom to wait outside. Half an hour later he came out and showed me the documents where he had legally changed his last name to mine, along with his new ID card bearing his new name. When I asked why he did that, he didn't hesitate to tell me: "I did it to honor the man who is my father."

In the 6+ years I've been here, I've only had one incident with 4 young "punks", which didn't turn out so good for them. Other than that, I love the people of the North & North East. They are proud of their heritage and fiercely defend it. And from what I've seen, there is no love lost between them and those of BKK. I don't know about succession, but I feel that most of them would agree to some type of separation from BKK would be good for them.

You were doing well there until you talked of "no love lost between them and those of BKK"

Where does this come from?

Do people really not understand that the population of Bangkok is mostly people that came in from the provinces, including a huge proportion from the North East?

It comes from a fasile victim mentality, where everything that is wrong is because of them, and if it wouldn't be for them things would be so much better. We are much better than them and need not change or adjust to improve our situation, it is them that keep us down... add racial undertones as necessary, stir and boil until all capacity to introspection and personal responsibility is diluted then serve hot.

[Just1Voice]

Post 138 & 139. I see the two of you love to generalize and lump everyone into the same group, while knowing absolutely ZERO about a particular situation.

First, all members of my wife's family have very good jobs, or run their own businesses. Sone are college educated with degrees. As I stated ONLY ONE TIME in the past 6+ years has any member of my Thai extended family asked to borrow a stang, and that was for an emergency situation, and the money was paid back within 2 months. No one comes to visit without calling first. Only her older sister has ever come and spent the night at our house.

So take that "generalization" paint brush you have in your hand and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Just1Voice

[monkeycountry]

We favour a democratic Lanna republic, Chiang Mai group says

The Sunday Nation

CHIANG MAI: -- The idea of setting up a People's Democratic Republic of Lanna (PDRL) has been under discussion for six months now, according to a leader of the Love Chiang Mai group.

Petchawat Wattanapongsirikul said the PDRL would just be a separate political system for the North, split from Bangkok, and not an independent state. He claims as many as four million out of six million northerners support the idea. Petchawat said people who prefer dictatorship can move from the northern region to other parts of Thailand and warned actors and singers supporting the anti-government People Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) that Chiang Mai people do not welcome them.

He said there were three factors behind the idea of setting up a "Republic of Lanna". Firstly, people in the North were looked down upon by others, with the PDRC often referring to red shirts as "red water buffaloes". Secondly, the opposing group did not respect the law and there were double standards in the judicial system. The third reason, he said, was the undemocratic aspirations of the PDRC.

Looking down on red shirts as 'red-water buffaloes' was a severe form of discrimination against human dignity, Petchawat noted.

The one country, two systems model existed in China and Hong Kong, he said, as an example.

Any attempt to stage a coup or to shut down Thailand would result in a struggle to create an independent Lanna Republic, which he insisted would continue to respect HM the King as head of state. He claims to have the support of 80 per cent of people in the North, including those who are not red shirts.

"In case there're those who think differently and admire dictatorship, they can move elsewhere. I'm not chasing them away but people should live under a political system that they are happy with. If you are democratic, come stay with us at PDRL."

A group of academics, students and alumni at Surat Thani Rajabhat University issued a statement yesterday condemning people who harbour ideas of seccession.

In the Northeast, meanwhile, the red-shirt movement began its first day of registration of "democracy defence volunteers". There was also a similar campaign in Maha Sarakham.

-- The Nation 2014-03-02

And herein lies the twist. They want political independence, but not complete independence, as they still want the money flow to continue from the south and Bangkok to the north.

If they also supported financial independence at least I would respect their idea, but I suppose noone in the north would support that :-)

Edited March 2, 2014 by monkeycountry

[djjamie]

"warned actors and singers supporting the anti-government People Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) that Chiang Maipeople do not welcome them" Hang on, I thought freedom of expression is a cornerstone of democratic rights and freedoms. I thought not giving freedom to people to express their beliefs was a dictatorship?

"Looking down on red shirts as 'red-water buffaloes' was a severe form of discrimination against human dignity" Looking down on yellow shirts as "fascist thugs" must be a severe (not a bit, not a lot, but SEVERE) form of discrimination as well then. We are getting back to this freedom of expression thing though. So if you don't like people calling you that then don't listen to them and know that you are more intelligent and dignified than them by not replying to them. I get called a fascist, brainless, thug on TVF. I know that by people calling me this only highlights their lack of intelligence, insecurities and weaknesses. I know I am better than them without even having to reply.

So people that don't like the democratic principle of freedom of expression can move out of the republic of Isaan.

PTP logic right there folks.

[djjamie]

Post 138 & 139. I see the two of you love to generalize and lump everyone into the same group, while knowing absolutely ZERO about a particular situation.

First, all members of my wife's family have very good jobs, or run their own businesses. Sone are college educated with degrees. As I stated ONLY ONE TIME in the past 6+ years has any member of my Thai extended family asked to borrow a stang, and that was for an emergency situation, and the money was paid back within 2 months. No one comes to visit without calling first. Only her older sister has ever come and spent the night at our house.

So take that "generalization" paint brush you have in your hand and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Without proof I can suggest my wife is a brain surgeon that had to move her practice from the North of Thailand to Bangkok because there was no demand for a brain surgeon up north due to a lack of brains.

My comment is just as plausible as yours……Without proof that is.

[saltandpepper]

ginjag, on 02 Mar 2014 - 09:36, said:

smovi57, on 02 Mar 2014 - 09:05, said:

Thaksin always one move ahead.

Like Montenegro, then Dubai ???

Or anywhere else in the world, except Thailand. You do understand that Thaksin is free to move around as he wishes, that abhisit and the dems were lying about the Interpol warrant, and did so for over two years?

As far as I know, Thaksin is free to come to Thailand any time he wants. But as he is a coward, he won't.

[ThailandNoob]

In both Zimbabwe and Equatorial Guinea, the elections have been condemned by the international community as the shams that they are. In contrast, the only international condemnation I hear regarding elections in Thailand is directed towards the actions of anti-government movements that have sought to prevent it from happening.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In most of the places mentioned in the earlier posts, the elections started out being "free and fair". Slowly, the dictators got their claws in and changed that, much as Thaksin has attempted to do while he has been in power.

I hardly think speculation about what someone might do if they gain power is grounds to suspend democracy and install an actual dictator / junta (which is all that Suthep's People's Council is)

And BTW in Equatorial Guinea Obiang came to power in a coup.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[monkeycountry]

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. - Winston Churchill

[ThailandNoob]

Well maybe you believe their two faced propaganda that decentralization is the only thing that they want, after all we all got a right to our own opinion (not in the "Democratic" Lanna Republic, where singers with different opinion are not tolerated)

You refer to the Red Shirts as a single monolithic entity, when in fact they are far from it. I say this as someone who actually knows many of them. There is a whole spectrum of views in the movement, as we can see from the event referred to in the OP, where the speaker called for only decentralisation while some people in the crowd were wearing headbands advocating more.

Decentralisation would take a lot of steam out of the movement, since the North and NE could vote in their own politicians to manage their own internal affairs without fear of coups and the like. Many in the Red Shirts would feel like they have achieved enough of their goals. It would also defuse the situation in Bangkok, since even if Lanna-Isan voted in Thaksin as Prime Minister, he would not be able to have any involvement with affairs outside his consituency (and probably not even be able to travel south since I doubt the Bangkok government would approve amnesty for him).

However, if the decentralisation movement is suppressed, then the more radical elements in the Red Shirts will continue to gain support, and Thailand will continue towards civil war. Sadly I feel that this is the most likely outcome.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Then they should support the PDRC because one of their platform points is desentralization and elected provincial governors. Has Thaksin or any of his proxies ever proposed the same thing?

They're proposing decentralisation now! I actually read those things on the list of PDRC demands. However they were buried deep below the more important parts of their platform such as the People's Council. Early in the days of the protests, I actually went to Democracy Monument to listen with my own ears to what Suthep had to say. He didn't talk about decentralisation at all.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app