Boxed red wine

[craigt3365]

Just back from Tesco. Only 1 box of Montclair red and a few of Jacobs Creek red, at over 3k per box! Asked the clerk, she said the company was having problems bringing in the wine. I kinda figured that one out on my own! 5555

Tesco can't even keep small bottles of coke in stock, no less wine

Same with Makro! One day they have the boxes of wine, the next they don't. One day they have the small cans of coke, the next they don't. Even paper towels! Sometimes, they are just out of them. Frustrating.

[craigt3365]

This just came in from my wine supplier:

Box wines generally contain 3 liters of wine, so the wholesale price will exceed 600 baht per box. As I understand it, that makes box wines subject to the 36% tax in the value-based column. There is also a tax of 225 baht per liter of wine that applies.

So a 3L box of wine that use to sell for 900B, is now selling for basically more than double that now. Wonderful Thailand.

[Guderian]

This just came in from my wine supplier:

Box wines generally contain 3 liters of wine, so the wholesale price will exceed 600 baht per box. As I understand it, that makes box wines subject to the 36% tax in the value-based column. There is also a tax of 225 baht per liter of wine that applies.

So a 3L box of wine that use to sell for 900B, is now selling for basically more than double that now. Wonderful Thailand.

Another thing to thank the rice pledging scheme for. Yingluck had to try and pay for it somehow.

Maybe if they started making 2 litres boxes they could get around the 36% tax? Given the small size of the Thai wine market I can't imagine any foreign producer bothering just for this crazy place.

[bmanly]

I use to buy that Californian Red with the Gold Award on the label in the 2 liter bottles. It was 435 baht only 6 Months ago. It was a nice drop for the price. I bought it at Best Supermarket opposite Tops. I wonder how much that will go up to?

[JesseFrank]

Just back from Tesco. Only 1 box of Montclair red and a few of Jacobs Creek red, at over 3k per box! Asked the clerk, she said the company was having problems bringing in the wine. I kinda figured that one out on my own! 5555

I maybe mistaken, but I thought the Jacobs creek are no " bag in box " but 4 or 6 bottles packed in a box.

Been there an hour ago and they had a few boxes of Petter Vella 4L red and Mar Y Sol 4L, both at 799 Baht, there was a single box of Mont Clair white.

So if Craig saw a box of red Mont Clair, toooooo late.

Little to no stock of spirits in Tesco as well.

Little off topic, but did you notice that Blend and Ben More are now selling "special " versions of their regular spirit, same same in a different package, and increased the price by another 30%, on top of the 20 - 30% increse they did a few months ago.

To translate, a bottle of Ben More is now 535 Baht compared to 345 Baht 4 months ago.

[Oink]

Maybe they are trying to work out what to do with the tax on a 5lt box of wine sine they increased the duty by THB 100 / bottle.

6.5 bottles in a 5lt box Yikes!!!

[JSixpack]

Blend and Ben More are now selling "special " versions of their regular spirit, same same in a different package

How you know same same?

[raro]

We had lots of enquiries from desperate restaurants because they ran out of cheap plonk for their house "wine". No resulting business as the price elasticity in the low end market is rather limited.

In the middle class where we are positioned I couldn't see any drop in business, rather an increase as those who want to drink wine are apparently willing to pay a little extra from the already increased price and end up with something drinkable.

Our best selling wines are now 1,000 Baht up.

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[melvinmelvin]

I see a lot of boxed wine at Big C and Lotus and Foodland and Villa Market,

not awfully costly,

and some of them are quite nice.

MontClair? Not for me, ain't tasty.

Edited March 7, 2014 by melvinmelvin

[GrantSmith]

"It was to expect that wine in Thailand couldn't stay that cheap, isn't it ?"

When has it ever been cheap? Thailand has the worst selection of wines period in the region & including that they choose the worst quality from whichever country, they also charge 4-6 times more.

What's that Australian wine with the Kangaroo on the label, in the US, it's 5 bucks but here you can easily pay $30-40; since the Thais don't know how to treat wine, after opening the bottle, it can easily taste like vinegar.

Also guessing all you who drink wine out of a box probably consider the twist-off versions very classy.

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You're referring to Yellow Tail... A dastardly drink whether it's in a bottle or a silver pillow... Can't say I've seen it retail for $A30-40 up here though... Having a rough time of it in the states too I believe, along with Penfold's and Pernod Ricard...

Wine in Thailand can be found cheaply, you just have to look for it...

Don't be tainting everyone with the same cork, a lot of Thai people I know do have a surprisingly good knowledge of wine, sure, it's not Somchai at the register of 7|11, but then again I'm not going there to buy Jacob's Creek or Montclair... A lot of them are Francocentric, but good for them...

Education is a wonderful tool. Teach someone about a wine varietal they've never heard of or not expected that region to produce and you can have a very, very long conversation that will often diverge from wine very quickly...

Cork vs Stelvin... An argument - that in the wine world - that will outlast any Grand Cru Bordeaux or Grange Hermitage vintage (no matter how many re-corking classes you attend), it was actually the dissertation of Australia's latest MW (Master of Wine) - which is better, cork or stelvin. It's still causing rumblings amongst her peers.

My take on it, every day quaffers (no matter your preferred price point) under stelvin, occasion wines under cork. That's not to say that you can't mix and match, plenty of wine in my collection are a mixed dozen of stelvin and cork. But oxidisation is slower under stelvin than cork - IMHO.

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[GrantSmith]

We had lots of enquiries from desperate restaurants because they ran out of cheap plonk for their house "wine". No resulting business as the price elasticity in the low end market is rather limited.

In the middle class where we are positioned I couldn't see any drop in business, rather an increase as those who want to drink wine are apparently willing to pay a little extra from the already increased price and end up with something drinkable.

Our best selling wines are now 1,000 Baht up.

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There's plenty of drinkable wine in the market that is under 1,000 even at the retail level, at wholesale level, even moreso....

I've even heard CEO's of large companies exclaim that 1,000 is "a bit pricey" which is utterly ridiculous IMO!

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[xylophone]

On the subject of cork vs Stelvin closures.............

Villa Maria Estate is the home of New Zealand’s most awarded wines. Established in 1961 by owner and Managing Director Sir George Fistonich, Villa Maria is dedicated to the pursuit of making quality New Zealand wine, enjoyed by wine drinkers around the world.

Villa Maria Estate became the first large New Zealand winery to commit 100% to screw caps in 2001, and this was under the direction of Sir George Fistonich, who has been described as a "wine visionary". I quote this from an article written on the change to screw caps, "For me it was about wine quality. I always knew they were better than corks for quality wine because 25 years ago I had seen that, so there was no question in my mind that screw caps were more reliable".

"We have done experiments with corks for a long time, taking them out of bottles and soaking them in neutral water or in wine and finding a huge variation in the quality, and they seemed to be going from bad to worse. I was getting quite angry about the whole thing as we were rejecting up to about 50% of the corks, so I always found it quite illogical to talk about imagery and marketing because it really goes back to our wine quality".

"There is no romance in a faulty bottle of wine".

And as GrantSmith has said, the debate will go on for our lifetime at least I would think. There is another aspect which I believe is important to consider, and that is if you visit the cellars of many of the chateaux/wineries in France, the walls of many of the older cellars are covered with with fungi/mould which develop over the years (some I have visited being 4 to 5 cm thick) and over the years, this environment can have an effect on the lead capsules covering the corks, almost making them rot away in some instances of decades of cellaring.

So I'm not sure how Stelvin closures, being aluminium, will age in that environment. It may well be that corks are best in that instance?

[jonesthepost]

I would say you guys are talking about plonk not wine.

[gmac]

I would say you guys are talking about plonk not wine.

It's what's affordable for those without bottomless pockets.

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[xylophone]

I would say you guys are talking about plonk not wine.

Wine is wine whether it be from the bottom and cheaper end of the scale to the very top, and many times it can "vary according to the person tasting it" (I'm sure you know what I mean by this).

I have served Grange to a French wine maker who didn't like it one bit; I have served fine Bordeaux to friends who said they preferred their usual tipple, a much cheaper wine at the lower end of the market; I have tasted wine with a winemaker who thought that his 1973 Loire red was the bees knees, but to me (and a wine merchant friend) it was just about finished as a wine...........and so it goes on.

And as I have mentioned before, many, many millions of gallons of wine at the cheaper end of the market are made and consumed every year throughout the world, and many people enjoy it for what it is.

[chris2004]

I would say you guys are talking about plonk not wine.

Another wine snob who can only judge wine by it's price.

[xylophone]

Quote GS: "Wine in Thailand can be found cheaply, you just have to look for it..."

That is true, although recent tax increases have increased the price somewhat, however if you go and look in Wine Connection you can still find relatively cheap Australian everyday drinking wines for around 500 baht (one I just noticed at 345 baht per bottle – – a new range apparently), and Italian wines at around the same price.

My current favourite is one I have found elsewhere, an Italian wine, which in my opinion is superb, and retails for 660 baht per bottle. Obviously I can't disclose what it is, otherwise the good folk posting on this thread may well go and buy up all of the stock. However I will say that it took some finding and I have tasted many bottles in order to get something of this quality, so relatively cheap for a great tasting and well-made wine.

[GrantSmith]

In Foodland (Porto Chino) today and counted at least 12 Montclair Reds...

Also I was shocked to see Jacob's Creek Reserve Chardonnay in my local 7|11!

I'll drink that in a very sharp pinch...

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[xylophone]

Seems like there's quite a few threads going dealing with boxed wine, however the good thing is that they do cover other aspects of wine including price, origins etc etc.

So here's something I would like to share with you, and also it's for people who would like to try an alternative to boxed wine, however the price for this wine is still the same as it was in the past, and in my opinion, you will not get a better red wine for the price, or even almost double it.

The wine I am talking about is called "Belleville" and it is from the South of France, however made more to the New World style of wine, so should please the Aussie wine drinkers amongst us. It always was 295 baht per bottle, and today I have checked this out, and it still is – – now whether this is because it is old stock or not, I don't know. I do know they made an Australian version which is the same price, however both are worth a try. There is a white version for the white wine drinkers amongst us, however I have never tried it.

I have seen them in Villa Market and in "Tops" supermarket.

Any feedback on your opinion of wine would be great for visitors to the thread...........perhaps I should copy this to the MontClair thread also?

[Guderian]

Seems like there's quite a few threads going dealing with boxed wine, however the good thing is that they do cover other aspects of wine including price, origins etc etc.

So here's something I would like to share with you, and also it's for people who would like to try an alternative to boxed wine, however the price for this wine is still the same as it was in the past, and in my opinion, you will not get a better red wine for the price, or even almost double it.

The wine I am talking about is called "Belleville" and it is from the South of France, however made more to the New World style of wine, so should please the Aussie wine drinkers amongst us. It always was 295 baht per bottle, and today I have checked this out, and it still is – – now whether this is because it is old stock or not, I don't know. I do know they made an Australian version which is the same price, however both are worth a try. There is a white version for the white wine drinkers amongst us, however I have never tried it.

I have seen them in Villa Market and in "Tops" supermarket.

Any feedback on your opinion of wine would be great for visitors to the thread...........perhaps I should copy this to the MontClair thread also?

Thanks for the heads up, if I see a bottle I'll try it. As far as I understand the new alcohol tax it only applies to wines costing 600 Baht a bottle or more, so the cheaper makes like Belleville shouldn't be affected. Of course, TIT and no doubt they'll interpret matters however they feel like doing. Since a 3 litre box contains four bottles a typical 800-900 Baht box should also have been unaffected as each 'bottle' was only costing 200-225 Baht, or so I had thought, but they evidently regard 'box' and 'bottle' as the same thing, so the original announcement should have said that the new tax would apply to wines costing 600 Baht or more per container, regardless of size.

[GrantSmith]

Thanks for the heads up, if I see a bottle I'll try it. As far as I understand the new alcohol tax it only applies to wines costing 600 Baht a bottle or more, so the cheaper makes like Belleville shouldn't be affected. Of course, TIT and no doubt they'll interpret matters however they feel like doing. Since a 3 litre box contains four bottles a typical 800-900 Baht box should also have been unaffected as each 'bottle' was only costing 200-225 Baht, or so I had thought, but they evidently regard 'box' and 'bottle' as the same thing, so the original announcement should have said that the new tax would apply to wines costing 600 Baht or more per container, regardless of size.

Not quite...

The new excise tax formula affects all forms of wine, actually it affects cheaper wine moreso than the expensive stuff. This is due to the change in the way the tax is applied.

Prior to last year it was a flat 60% on top of CIF (Cost, Insurance & Freight) this meant that if you were bringing it in cheaply, you could then sell it cheaply (in theory). Now, the tax is based on the wholesale price i.e what the distributer sells it to the retailer for, you're seeing a price spike in the cheaper end of the market and a softening in the higher end stuff. It wasn't based on how the wine was packaged be it box, can or bottle. It was always a volumetric calculation i.e how much liquid was contained inside.

You could say the Finance Ministry is trying to get the country to drink better wine At least that's how TAT should be marketing it

Some importers/distributers will be able to wear the tax increase (which is possibly why you see the price of Belleville not rising), some won't and some will be able to but are greedy bar stewards who think that the end user should wear the increase because they don't want to.

[Guderian]

Thanks for the heads up, if I see a bottle I'll try it. As far as I understand the new alcohol tax it only applies to wines costing 600 Baht a bottle or more, so the cheaper makes like Belleville shouldn't be affected. Of course, TIT and no doubt they'll interpret matters however they feel like doing. Since a 3 litre box contains four bottles a typical 800-900 Baht box should also have been unaffected as each 'bottle' was only costing 200-225 Baht, or so I had thought, but they evidently regard 'box' and 'bottle' as the same thing, so the original announcement should have said that the new tax would apply to wines costing 600 Baht or more per container, regardless of size.

Not quite...

The new excise tax formula affects all forms of wine, actually it affects cheaper wine moreso than the expensive stuff. This is due to the change in the way the tax is applied.

Prior to last year it was a flat 60% on top of CIF (Cost, Insurance & Freight) this meant that if you were bringing it in cheaply, you could then sell it cheaply (in theory). Now, the tax is based on the wholesale price i.e what the distributer sells it to the retailer for, you're seeing a price spike in the cheaper end of the market and a softening in the higher end stuff. It wasn't based on how the wine was packaged be it box, can or bottle. It was always a volumetric calculation i.e how much liquid was contained inside.

You could say the Finance Ministry is trying to get the country to drink better wine At least that's how TAT should be marketing it

Some importers/distributers will be able to wear the tax increase (which is possibly why you see the price of Belleville not rising), some won't and some will be able to but are greedy bar stewards who think that the end user should wear the increase because they don't want to.

So where did you get that information from? The official announcement on the tax increases as reported in the press here at the time said this:

Wine: Products valued under 600 baht per bottle are exempt from the product value-based tax. Products over 600 baht are now taxed at 36%. With regards to alcohol content, all wine is now taxed at a 1,000 baht per litre of pure alcohol, up from 100 baht previously.

That doesn't seem consistent with what you are saying, or with the price rises we have seen. Did they just make the official announcement and then change their minds completely without letting anyone know???

[JSixpack]

Looks to me that there are signs that the shortage of boxed red wine is beginning to abate, thankfully.

However, if you find a supply, you really shouldn't reveal it here as some members will rush to grab it up and horde. There was an example in the Montclair thread, as I recall.

[GrantSmith]

So where did you get that information from? The official announcement on the tax increases as reported in the press here at the time said this:

Wine: Products valued under 600 baht per bottle are exempt from the product value-based tax. Products over 600 baht are now taxed at 36%. With regards to alcohol content, all wine is now taxed at a 1,000 baht per litre of pure alcohol, up from 100 baht previously.

That doesn't seem consistent with what you are saying, or with the price rises we have seen. Did they just make the official announcement and then change their minds completely without letting anyone know???

My information comes directly from the Excise Department...

See post #68 of this thread for an explanation...

As for the official announcement vs reality, it was announced and it took a couple of months to nut out the specifics...

[JSixpack]

Looks to me that there are signs that the shortage of boxed red wine is beginning to abate, thankfully.

However, if you find a supply, you really shouldn't reveal it here as some members will rush to grab it up and horde. There was an example in the Montclair thread, as I recall.

I spoke too soon. Now the shortage is worse than it's ever been.

[bushman1666]

Boxed wines have not been available in their usual (for us) outlets in the Rayong area.

A store clerk told me today that the price was set to double - very soon.

That wouldn't surprise me as I imagine a high proportion of sales go to those pesky foreigners. Thai philosophy is to extract maximum revenue as the white buffalo just keep coming back for more. I thought 200 baht a litre was too good to be true. Oh well,back to Leo Beer.

Sent from my very clever thingy that uses battery far too quickly

[Bpuumike]

In Foodland (Porto Chino) today and counted at least 12 Montclair Reds...

Also I was shocked to see Jacob's Creek Reserve Chardonnay in my local 7|11!

I'll drink that in a very sharp pinch...

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I found the same but haven't tried it, though the Reserve Shiraz (which I haven't seen in any 7/11) is a pretty nice wine.

The 7/11's do seem to be suddenly full of Montclair and Peter Vella reds, instead of Hardys & Jacobs Creek, but bottles only. Some sort of sign as I haven't seen boxes of anything anywhere lately.

[MJCM]

Makro had Red Montclair just now, but they where limiting sales to 2 boxes per customer.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[Beardog]

"It was to expect that wine in Thailand couldn't stay that cheap, isn't it ?"

When has it ever been cheap? Thailand has the worst selection of wines period in the region & including that they choose the worst quality from whichever country, they also charge 4-6 times more.

What's that Australian wine with the Kangaroo on the label, in the US, it's 5 bucks but here you can easily pay $30-40; since the Thais don't know how to treat wine, after opening the bottle, it can easily taste like vinegar.

Also guessing all you who drink wine out of a box probably consider the twist-off versions very classy.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Its yellow tail in Aus. But the wine they sell here under that label has some disgusting pig swill pasteurized into it from the bottlers in BKK that sell udulterated products. I agree Thailand is a joke when it comes to wine. After living in Sonoma-Napa area in California you can tell feeder grapes over what the real wineries are putting out. And the wines are predominantly the crap that no one will drink in their mother country. Even the California blends are sold of the Do Not Buy list in California & inflated by 500%+ more.

Seriously I have 2 friends from Australia that tell me the Jacob creek winery sells the worst lowliest wine in Australia. They liked it to feeder swill. And they always bring in some great wines when they come up. I rate it worse than Gallo in 1980 or white port just add the lemon juice & if your out of that sterno will work.I bought several bottles of Jake offs creek & thought it was horrible. Tasted more like dirt than wine made from grapes. Just sayin................................

Edited March 29, 2014 by Beardog

[Beardog]

I just saw boxes a few weeks ago. You might have to visit a few different stores? Supply logistics here really suck. Something as simple as Schweppes Manao is hit and miss at all the stores. Sometimes they have it, sometimes they don't.

Now if they could just get the Schweppes Monoa in 20oz or 1.25 liters I am all over it!