PostmanPat Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks for the information, at last, now we seem to know the reason. So basically the (tax) powers that be think its OK for boxes of wine filled with (inferior wine) should be charged at the same price as 75 cl normal bottles?! So presumably, if we take Rimping 399 bottles as the norm, a 3 litre cask (equivalent of 4 bottles @ 75 cl) will go up to (4 x 399) ie almost 1600 baht? Looks like Mont Clairs tactic, in place for a few years, to describe their product as "imported grape juice" was very forward thinking! Oh well. Mont Clair it is then because sure as anything, I m not going to pay double the price for another wine box, its just ridiculous, but hey, its Thailand, land of smiles, especially if youre a taxman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Here is the reality of the boxed wine situation. The new liquor tax regime brought in late last year was written in such a way that any boxed wine that mentioned the grape varietal would be classified as "superior". As such it would be subjected to a greater rate of duty than non superior boxed wine. That would have almost doubled the retail price when compared to the prices in effect for most of last year, such as 750 baht for a 3 litre Bodegas Cabernet. In view of this Thai wholesale suppliers have been reluctant to bring in new stock because they believe that consumers will not buy boxed wine that is as expensive per 750ml as a similar bottled wine. So we therefore now have the shortage that is nationwide. Wine producers are therefore faced with printing new boxes that do not disclose the varietal purely for Thailand which is not a large market. There is one brand that is apparently going to make the change, Cedar Creek, but there is no indication of when new stocks will arrive. Some wineries may indeed decide to withdraw from the Thai boxed wine market altogether. So there we have it. A sorry state of affairs thanks to the green tea addled brains of those who wrote the new tax regime, and who are now apparently surprised to find that their revenue has in fact dropped since the new taxes were imposed! My source of information on the supply issue is the ever helpful Customer Service Department at Rimping Head Office. The observations on the cretins who levy the duty are mine. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Sorry brommers whilst that is a good story, it's factually incorrect... The branding of the product i.e varietal specific is not, nor has it previously been a factor. The previous tax calculation was a rate equivalent to around 60% of the CIF, which Mont Clair got around due to the way they imported the product. Now this new method of calculation revolves around the combination of the wholesale price, ABV% and volume. The equation is available to view on the Excise Department website So yes, the price of cask wine will go up. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amexpat Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 "The previous tax calculation was a rate equivalent to around 60% of the CIF, " CIF? <deleted>? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaitot Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 one my dislikes of Thailand the beer and wine situation, well and pizza. In the us Trader joes has what they call the 2 buck chuck bottled wine all the red and white types $ 2.49 per bottle ) or (75 bah)t fully drinkable. Pint of micro beer at my local sandwich pizza shop 2 bucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 "The previous tax calculation was a rate equivalent to around 60% of the CIF, " CIF? <deleted>? CIF in layman's: the cost of getting the product from one port to another aka Cost Insurance Freight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommers Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 GrantSmith, if you read what I said you would see that I was quoting from a statement sent to me by a retailer, who seems to me to have some basis for taking into account. Maybe you are in possession of other facts. So carry on with your evidence if you have it and we will all be wiser. Frankly I care not what the reason is, but I do care about getting my hands on a box of drinkable red wine. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 GrantSmith, if you read what I said you would see that I was quoting from a statement sent to me by a retailer, who seems to me to have some basis for taking into account. Maybe you are in possession of other facts. So carry on with your evidence if you have it and we will all be wiser. Frankly I care not what the reason is, but I do care about getting my hands on a box of drinkable red wine. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Please see the attached document which outlines the Excise Departments formula for calculating the Excise Tax. The formula is basically a combination formula: Wholesale Price (exclusive of VAT) (P1) + (The %ABV [P2] or Volume [P3] [whichever is higher]) + %ABV excess (P4) (if applicable) It is then broken up into types of alcohol 1. Beer/Wine/Local Spirits (Mekhong, Hong Thong et al) 2. Imported Spirits (the liquid kind not the ghost kind) 3. Industrial / Medical So, as I said, whilst the story you were told is believable, it's factually incorrect... Excise Tax Formula.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 We tried one bottle of the Peter Vella red and it was sugary like PostmanPat said. I have to say that it was the worst wine that I've ever tried (that was not corked). Of course, I guess it could have been a bad batch, but never again will I buy that brand. I haven't tried Bodega yet. binjalin -- Are you drinking the red or white of the box wines you are mentioning? I ask because I have not found a reasonably priced white wine which is why I am sipping Montclair red (which I still think is better with food). Yesterday, we were lucky enough to have a good tasting bottle of wine. It was a Sicilian Syrah and it went well with our duck leg confit. It was about 700 baht. Regarding box wines, I like it because the packaging keeps the wine in a drinkable state for awhile. yes I'm a Bodegas fan at the moment - far superior to Mont Clair (wish I had not mentioned Peter Vella) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher328 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I was looking for an alternative and saw this. Not that desperate yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amexpat Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Re: Excise Tax Formula. Are we still talking just about RED wine in boxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Who in their right mind drinks montclair wine Maybe no 'right mind'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piewarmer Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I tried the local wines a few times, horrible! The wine sellers here pushing their plonk don't do taste samples.. no wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiengmaijoe Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 On a totally different topic...... boxes of white Mont Clair, has anyone seen any in the stores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkles Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I tried the local wines a few times, horrible! The wine sellers here pushing their plonk don't do taste samples.. no wonder. True but they could have great local wine industry here if they would bring in some expertise from overseas. This would of course been an admittance that we don't really know what we are doing......... aka loss of face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertmueller Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 On a totally different topic...... boxes of white Mont Clair, has anyone seen any in the stores? Today Big C Extra, 1 box white Mont Clair, no red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptainrob Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That big red shed near BWT has heaps of Cab Sav and CabSavMerlot in 3L casks ... from Chile ... 1580Bt though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr chow Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 "Panic of the boxed red wine shortage"......... Sounds like someone needs to go to MEETINGS Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkles Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That big red shed near BWT has heaps of Cab Sav and CabSavMerlot in 3L casks ... from Chile ... 1580Bt though. Probably why they have stock,not to many buyers at that price I would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiengmaijoe Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That big red shed near BWT has heaps of Cab Sav and CabSavMerlot in 3L casks ... from Chile ... 1580Bt though. What or where is BWT? Sorry, only been here 25 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That big red shed near BWT has heaps of Cab Sav and CabSavMerlot in 3L casks ... from Chile ... 1580Bt though. Probably why they have stock,not to many buyers at that price I would suggest. High price? For four bottles of (maybe) a drinkable wine. That's still inexpensive around here! Haven't tried it myself. Fortunately, I am well-stocked. Well, just remember that the usual medical advice is no more than two glasses a day! Otherwise, it sure seems this discussion is getting right up there with the really popular threads on hamburgers and pizza! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piewarmer Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Been in CM 8 years, what/where is BWT? Come on Rob! Edited February 24, 2014 by piewarmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaptainrob Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 BWT:Ban Wangtan - around the corner from Makro, Hang Dong. Makro have also started baking a corn bread loaf which is particularly nice with the creamy Gorgonzola and a wee glass of Red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaideeguy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The tax/duties on wines being 400% doesn't make any sense to me at all. You can get a name brand bottle of hard liquor [@ 40%% alcohol] for less than a bottle of cheap red wine. What's the sense in that?? In the west, alcohol is taxed on the % of alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiengmaijoe Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 BWT:Ban Wangtan - around the corner from Makro, Hang Dong. Makro have also started baking a corn bread loaf which is particularly nice with the creamy Gorgonzola and a wee glass of Red. I imagine that unless you live in or near Ban Wangtan nobody would have guessed what BWT was, which made your kind contribution more or less pointless! Since I live near CMGC and very rarely venture out to the Hang Dong area I certainly didn't know it. Thanks for clearing the mystery up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkles Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 In Makro ,Hang Dong,this morning, and according to the Makro girl who is always around the alcohol section, red wine casks are about 4 weeks away, that's Mont Clair ,Peter Vella etc. Noticing my fragile state, due to the shortage, she led me to Cask 88, Kookaburra, 2 litre bottles, which are 549 baht. Aussie wine label obviously but blended and bottled in Samhut Sakhorn. I purchased one but a little to early in the day to give it a try. Plenty of Mont Clair, white casks and 2 litre bottles on the shelves. We're off to Oz next week I doubt there will be a shortage there, they are swimming in the stuff ,excellent,good and ordinary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjczap Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> That big red shed near BWT has heaps of Cab Sav and CabSavMerlot in 3L casks ... from Chile ... 1580Bt though. WOW!! I bought the last 2 boxes of Caminos Chardonnay from Mackro Hang Dong a week or two ago - price 1095Bt - they usually price the red and white the same - does this mean we should expect a 40%+/- on the new stock???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PostmanPat Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 I know this thread (i started it!) is about boxed wines, but noticed today that Rimping now has a few of the fairly decent bottles back (eg Castle Creek, Ventisquaro etc) which were selling at 333 each or 3 for 1000 until a few months ago.......but the price is now 499........thats an increase by my reckoning of 50% !!!!! I m afraid at those prices, my "wine cellar" days are over, its going to be boxed only from now on, other than special occasions....as a previous poster notes, how on earth is it possible to buy a fairly decent named label bottle of gin or vodka for a lower price than an average bottle of wine!? Goodness only knows whats going to happen to the huge number of wine bars which have sprung up recently, mostly in the Nimmanhemin area! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Ah, Postman Pat, I will gladly bring a box of red to your cremation! But I hope not soon! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I know this thread (i started it!) is about boxed wines, but noticed today that Rimping now has a few of the fairly decent bottles back (eg Castle Creek, Ventisquaro etc) which were selling at 333 each or 3 for 1000 until a few months ago.......but the price is now 499........thats an increase by my reckoning of 50% !!!!! I m afraid at those prices, my "wine cellar" days are over, its going to be boxed only from now on, other than special occasions....as a previous poster notes, how on earth is it possible to buy a fairly decent named label bottle of gin or vodka for a lower price than an average bottle of wine!? Goodness only knows whats going to happen to the huge number of wine bars which have sprung up recently, mostly in the Nimmanhemin area! which were selling at 333 each or 3 for 1000 Only in Thailand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PostmanPat Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Ah, Postman Pat, I will gladly bring a box of red to your cremation! But I hope not soon! Happy to have a fire if you provide the wine....I certainly have one or two potential "Guy Fawkes" but not including me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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