In Thailand, democracy is just a fig leaf for kleptocracy

[DirtFarmer]

This writer was convicted of election campaign irregularities in the USA representing the laundering and funneling of more than 700k dollars into the Democratic Party fund raising on behalf of CP group and others she "insisted" on bringing to the luncheons...she should know from first hand knowledge about corruption and how deeply rooted it is... and she should look in the mirror before she opens her mouth...

If that is true does it really make any difference to the points raised?

Of course who will stop the next lot of traitors when they tAke office assuming the corruption continues?

Yes it is true .... just look her up under her name or her "US" name Pauline....and many of the things she may have learned from her own entanglement in the US courts and appeals courts... but it doesn't erase many things she mentioned... some are spot on... it is clear she is a Dem and leans in that direction and from personal experience she knows first hand how to funnel where to funnel and in some cases maybe even who is funneling ( here and now)... but in fact she is part of the problem not part of the solution... the question is who is going to educate the future generations Moms, Dads, teachers...pretty much ..the government ( any color) all the business monopolists..and on and on ....are not going to change anything... not for ages and ages.. it all starts with the young ones...there may never be the highly held reforms being bandied about ..I sincerely doubt it it may b e too ingrained but for sure screaming reform reform reform is a wonderful hue and cry... and then kicking the current scape goat and pointing alot... this is decades old and will take decades more to sort out..and you are so right...who will stop the next lot of traitors when they take office...?

[Riley'sLife]

Until the law relating to Defamation is abolished, Thailand can never be rid of corruption. This law allows The Truth to be hidden and protects the corrupt.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Riley'sLife

[connda]

Switzerland has a democracy. They're one of the few.

Most countries who say the have democracies are kloptocracies masquarding a democracies. Thailand's no different. Follow the money.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... what does the sorry state of our education tell us about our democracy, and our tomorrow?' That Thailand will continue along the same road of corrupt political opportunism unless, and until, an acceptable level of accessible education produces people able to not only think for themselves but to appreciate and understand the kind of representative choices being offered in exchange for their vote.

[boomerangutang]

Democracy shedrockracy. The difference between, let's say Scandinavia/New Zealand/Switzerland and countries like Thailand/Kenya/Ukraine is that in the aforementioned countries, there are people who genuinely want to try and get their country running well, and who have at least some concern for the downtrodden. Countries like Thailand/Kenya/Ukraine have people in power seats who are focused on amassing money and political power - because political power leads to yet more money.

For several years, Thaksin was at the top of the Thai political pyramid, and he showed all Thais that being hyper-greedy is the path to becoming rich and successful. If he had not been kicked out, he and his family/cronies would be so stuffed with riches and monopolies - they would make the Philippines' Marcos family blush.

[peecee]

Excellent article. Some one in the Nation has finally had the 'balls' to truthfully put it all together and tell it as it is.

Not quite right; the anti-government protesters are yelling so loudly because they cannot win an election. They had an opportunity to introduce a manifesto that would attract a majority vote but instead chose to go down their well trodden road of screwing up the incumbents administration, hoping the army would step in and place them in office.

[bangon04]

Democracy depends upon a free press to root out the frequent misdeeds of the duly elected kleptocrats. and hopefully shame them into being more careful not to get caught next time.

In Thailand it seems we have lots of opinions in the "educated" press which make it clear that "educated" Thais know exactly what is wrong with their country.

Unfortunately most do not seem to care enough to do much about it.

The masses are genuinely too stupid to vote, as they are in most countries. But in a democracy they have a right and duty to vote.

We all get the governments we deserve.

[Curt1591]

This writer was convicted of election campaign irregularities in the USA representing the laundering and funneling of more than 700k dollars into the Democratic Party fund raising on behalf of CP group and others she "insisted" on bringing to the luncheons...she should know from first hand knowledge about corruption and how deeply rooted it is... and she should look in the mirror before she opens her mouth...

$700,000 dollars is chump change in the USA political circus. Between the years 2008, and 2013, established lobbyists "donated" the equivalent of $5,000,000 for each and every member of congress and the senate. Now, every member didn't get equal shares. But, the money was passed to the parties.

She was probably handed to the feds as a scapegoat, to make it looked like someone was keeping an eye on things!

[HaleySabai]

to have Democracy you have to understand democracy.

....without the firm,unbiased corner stone of - Rule of Law...there is NO Democracy........ but even in a so-called democracy there is still rampant corruption and greed .....Uncle Sam being a prime example.

o.k, now back to the 17th century

Edited March 6, 2014 by HaleySabai

[Nautilus05]

Show me a government that is not a den of thieves and liars. The West has fallen asleep and let democratic principles of justice and freedom be stolen by psychopathic corporations. Here is an interesting article on countries that have reached a far more intransigent stalemate than Thailand: http://rt.com/op-edge/democracy-on-retreat-europe-ukraine-608/ ... all of them in Europe.

Thank you, I'm glad someone said it. I always get a chuckle when I see Westerners complaining about corruption in Thailand, as if we come from non-corrupt countries, or something.

I don't feel like arguing or debating though, especially not on ThaiVisa. But come on, the US for example is the king of corruption. Thailand doesn't even come close to comparing to the level the US government is on when it comes to corruption and deciet. Same goes for most Western nations.

Ok, I'll go back to General Topics now.

[jcisco]

This writer was convicted of election campaign irregularities in the USA representing the laundering and funneling of more than 700k dollars into the Democratic Party fund raising on behalf of CP group and others she "insisted" on bringing to the luncheons...she should know from first hand knowledge about corruption and how deeply rooted it is... and she should look in the mirror before she opens her mouth...

And the proof is here:

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/192/1037/594125/

perhaps Ms Pornpimol has learnt that in a developed democracy corruption is by stealth.

Read it.

They were acquitted as the case was dismissed.

Did you actually read that, this at all. I mean did you even scroll down to "As Ordered" and read the points above to see what the decision of the court was???

That judgement was filed to decide the appeal of the dismissal of charges in a previous hearing. Those dismissals were overturned.

Understood or do you need something easier to read???

[Thai at Heart]

A very depressing start to the day reading this article, mainly because it is 100% correct. The integrity of the author is not what is important here, it is what has been said. Let's not just simply shoot the messenger. Corruption is a cancer in this country especially within the education ministry. That a country spends so much on education and gets so little is a disgrace. It is endemic, systemic and ultimately is crippling the development of Thailand. Cynics might suggest that the people at the top have a vested interest in keeping the education system the way it is. They might be right but personally I believe it is simply that it is such an attractive cash cow for the parasites that they cannot resist. Either way it results in the same thing. If the AEC results in increased labour mobility across the region the Thais will be huge losers.

And who does the establishment find as their anti-corruption poster boys?

FIrst it was Sondhi, and as if that wasn't bad enough, then Suthep. And guess what? The stupid supposedly middle class educated numpties fell for it, not once, but TWICE......

Stop corruption, Thaksin Ooork Bpai....Trust us, we are on your side...

[ppmacready]

Who instigated this way of doing business ?

Which party was in power for decades before the red shirts got into power?

Just seems like Karma to me.

But now the yellow shirts don't like the red shirts snout in the trough they developed over the previous 60 years.

All around Thailand in its neighbours countrys, for decades the yellow shirts have witnessed Rome burning.

Acutely aware of why.

Yet they did nothing to ease the obvious political storm heading their way.

And still now, can not except the demise of their royalists power.

[HaleySabai]

The highway-robbery of our tax-money that has spread and taken root everywhere has turned Thailand into a kleptocratic nation. That's why protesters are calling for reform, before a new election. Without a reform, a new election is not going to turn our kleptocracy into a democracy, for there is much more to democracy than an election.

....so WHO is going to be that shining savior that will usher in new "reforms ? .... Suthep & Abhisit ??..those two political piggies would have to do more than just wash the blood of Thai-people off their hands before they stick their heads back in the trough.

Here Pornpimol is showing herself as a crafty writer attempting to 'tell the truth' behind Thai-politics while at the same time planting seeds of propaganda against the current government in favor of,guest who?..... True "Reform" will have removed the age-old Albatross that is weighing upon the Nations neck.

[Thai at Heart]

The highway-robbery of our tax-money that has spread and taken root everywhere has turned Thailand into a kleptocratic nation. That's why protesters are calling for reform, before a new election. Without a reform, a new election is not going to turn our kleptocracy into a democracy, for there is much more to democracy than an election.

....so WHO is going to be that shining savior that will usher in new "reforms ? .... Suthep & Abhisit ??..those two political piggies would have to do more than just wash the blood of Thai-people off their hands before they stick their heads back in the trough.

Here Pornpimol is showing herself as a crafty writer attempting to 'tell the truth' behind Thai-politics while at the same time planting seeds of propaganda against the current government in favor of,guest who?..... True "Reform" will have removed the age-old Albatross that is weighing upon the Nations neck.

The implication is that this kleptocracy has somehow only just appeared out of nowhere. Now I think we can all safely say that that truly is complete and utter BS.

[slipperx]

This writer was convicted of election campaign irregularities in the USA representing the laundering and funneling of more than 700k dollars into the Democratic Party fund raising on behalf of CP group and others she "insisted" on bringing to the luncheons...she should know from first hand knowledge about corruption and how deeply rooted it is... and she should look in the mirror before she opens her mouth...

If that is true does it really make any difference to the points raised?

Of course who will stop the next lot of traitors when they tAke office assuming the corruption continues?

Yes it is true .... just look her up under her name or her "US" name Pauline....and many of the things she may have learned from her own entanglement in the US courts and appeals courts... but it doesn't erase many things she mentioned... some are spot on... it is clear she is a Dem and leans in that direction and from personal experience she knows first hand how to funnel where to funnel and in some cases maybe even who is funneling ( here and now)... but in fact she is part of the problem not part of the solution... the question is who is going to educate the future generations Moms, Dads, teachers...pretty much ..the government ( any color) all the business monopolists..and on and on ....are not going to change anything... not for ages and ages.. it all starts with the young ones...there may never be the highly held reforms being bandied about ..I sincerely doubt it it may b e too ingrained but for sure screaming reform reform reform is a wonderful hue and cry... and then kicking the current scape goat and pointing alot... this is decades old and will take decades more to sort out..and you are so right...who will stop the next lot of traitors when they take office...?

Nice to finds like minded person on this subject :-)

[Thai at Heart]

This writer was convicted of election campaign irregularities in the USA representing the laundering and funneling of more than 700k dollars into the Democratic Party fund raising on behalf of CP group and others she "insisted" on bringing to the luncheons...she should know from first hand knowledge about corruption and how deeply rooted it is... and she should look in the mirror before she opens her mouth...

If that is true does it really make any difference to the points raised?

Of course who will stop the next lot of traitors when they tAke office assuming the corruption continues?

Yes it is true .... just look her up under her name or her "US" name Pauline....and many of the things she may have learned from her own entanglement in the US courts and appeals courts... but it doesn't erase many things she mentioned... some are spot on... it is clear she is a Dem and leans in that direction and from personal experience she knows first hand how to funnel where to funnel and in some cases maybe even who is funneling ( here and now)... but in fact she is part of the problem not part of the solution... the question is who is going to educate the future generations Moms, Dads, teachers...pretty much ..the government ( any color) all the business monopolists..and on and on ....are not going to change anything... not for ages and ages.. it all starts with the young ones...there may never be the highly held reforms being bandied about ..I sincerely doubt it it may b e too ingrained but for sure screaming reform reform reform is a wonderful hue and cry... and then kicking the current scape goat and pointing alot... this is decades old and will take decades more to sort out..and you are so right...who will stop the next lot of traitors when they take office...?

Indeed to have someone bemoaning a kleptocracy who has been done for campaign funds illegalities in another country, really is one of the most glorious bits of amart hypocrisy I can think of.

[northernjohn]

So, we who are well-read are aware of the profound depths of corruption endemic to Thai politics. When will the voters in Issan figure it out. Or maybe they've also known, but for them corruption is no big deal. Perhaps for them, being very rich (and making promises to make others rich) is what matters most. Making reforms in how poor Issan farmers think is as important as any other reforms.

Corruption is culturally embedded in the Thai psyche. It's similar to the concept of not being able to see anything wrong with buying pirated goods. How to change deep-set concepts in how people think? I don't know.

I think, if there are going to be 'reforms' that stick (at all) they'll have to come down the tubes from those who are elected to do such things. Currently, it's Shinawatre lovers who are winning elections. If reforms don't happen with them, then.... let's hope future elections will bring in (at least) a half-decent bunch of leaders who can implement some improvements.

I don't believe a lot of Thai people realize the depth of corruption in Thailand. to many of them it is just paying the police man 200 baht for not wearing a helmet or some other such small thing. Many of them even in the middle class can not conceive of the vast amounts being taken by members of the government for their own private off shore bank accounts. For instance and feel free to correct my math but the 350 billion baht for the water management would work out to about 350,000 baht for each Thai man women and child in Thailand.

as I said feel free to correct my figures.

[northernjohn]

This writer was convicted of election campaign irregularities in the USA representing the laundering and funneling of more than 700k dollars into the Democratic Party fund raising on behalf of CP group and others she "insisted" on bringing to the luncheons...she should know from first hand knowledge about corruption and how deeply rooted it is... and she should look in the mirror before she opens her mouth...

If that is true does it really make any difference to the points raised?

Of course who will stop the next lot of traitors when they tAke office assuming the corruption continues?

Yes it is true .... just look her up under her name or her "US" name Pauline....and many of the things she may have learned from her own entanglement in the US courts and appeals courts... but it doesn't erase many things she mentioned... some are spot on... it is clear she is a Dem and leans in that direction and from personal experience she knows first hand how to funnel where to funnel and in some cases maybe even who is funneling ( here and now)... but in fact she is part of the problem not part of the solution... the question is who is going to educate the future generations Moms, Dads, teachers...pretty much ..the government ( any color) all the business monopolists..and on and on ....are not going to change anything... not for ages and ages.. it all starts with the young ones...there may never be the highly held reforms being bandied about ..I sincerely doubt it it may b e too ingrained but for sure screaming reform reform reform is a wonderful hue and cry... and then kicking the current scape goat and pointing alot... this is decades old and will take decades more to sort out..and you are so right...who will stop the next lot of traitors when they take office...?

Indeed to have someone bemoaning a kleptocracy who has been done for campaign funds illegalities in another country, really is one of the most glorious bits of amart hypocrisy I can think of.

Now let us get this straight you are saying that it is hypocrisy to tell the truth just because they have done it.

Now if they were saying it was OK for them but not for you that would be hypocrisy.

That how ever is not the case here.

I think you are trying to cover up for some one.

Please try to be straight forward and use names rather than a mysterious group.

Saying the amart is as intelligent as saying the men in black.

Both fictional groups with no names.

[northernjohn]

Excellent article. Some one in the Nation has finally had the 'balls' to truthfully put it all together and tell it as it is.

Not quite right; the anti-government protesters are yelling so loudly because they cannot win an election. They had an opportunity to introduce a manifesto that would attract a majority vote but instead chose to go down their well trodden road of screwing up the incumbents administration, hoping the army would step in and place them in office.

wghat are you talking about. Maybe you should try the agricultural forum or some other one.

The anti Government protestors are not a political party there fore they have no candidate's to run for office. They are just trying to make the government be an honest one.

To put it bluntly the village idiot would know you can't win if you are not in the race.

Why do you have such a problem with that?

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed to have someone bemoaning a kleptocracy who has been done for campaign funds illegalities in another country, really is one of the most glorious bits of amart hypocrisy I can think of.

Now let us get this straight you are saying that it is hypocrisy to tell the truth just because they have done it.

Now if they were saying it was OK for them but not for you that would be hypocrisy.

That how ever is not the case here.

I think you are trying to cover up for some one.

Please try to be straight forward and use names rather than a mysterious group.

Saying the amart is as intelligent as saying the men in black.

Both fictional groups with no names.

Yes indeed it is. If I don't pay my taxes, I don't think I have much right to moan about people not paying their taxes. If I have been dragged through court and brought into trouble for paying illegal funds to a political party (ie.e CORRUPTION) elsewhere in the world, that would make me a hypocrite to claim that my home country is corrupt. Having Suthep up front and centre as an anti-corruption leader is one of the most ridiculous political standpoints. Anyone going to ask him to his face if he is currently or has in the past carried out any corruption? I didn't think so.

Point out that Thailand is corrupt? Wow. Now there is a ground breaking comment. Moaning about it when you yourself has been implicated up to your own eyeballs to have committed it is essentially completley hypocritical. As crazy as TRhailand might be, imagine now, we have Thaksin as a defender of democracy from the anti-corruption proetesters led by a man who was tossed out of parliament for corruption.

Cover up for someone? What on earth are you going on about.

If someone is going to go into a newspaper and bemoan corruption, I would expect them to have the moral compass big enough to have noted their own failings before they point out the failings of others. That is the very definition of hypocrisy. As for the amart being fictional. Oh please. Lets not be stupid.

[tonbridgebrit]

Yeah, yeah, as if Abhisit and the Democrats are a lesser kleptocracy than Thaksin if they ever get in power (via a coup).

[SheungWan]

Yeah, yeah, as if Abhisit and the Democrats are a lesser kleptocracy than Thaksin if they ever get in power (via a coup).

That is the appallingly piss-poor defence of the Thaksin project and the boiler room just bounces backwards and forwards between Thakin is innocent (framed!) and Thaksin is guilty but so are the others. It is almost amusing to see them tie themselves up in knots attempting to play to the gallery. Bottom line? They don't care which story to sell. Whatever it takes.

Edited March 6, 2014 by SheungWan

[Thai at Heart]

Yeah, yeah, as if Abhisit and the Democrats are a lesser kleptocracy than Thaksin if they ever get in power (via a coup).

That is what is called a piss-poor defence of the Thaksin project. The boiler room just bounces backwards and forwards between Thakin is innocent and Thaksin is guilty but so are the others. It is almost amusing to see them tie themselves up in knots attempting to play to the gallery.

This is why it is absolutely IMPERATIVE for someone to get hold of Abhisit, Korn and whoever else there is around to come up with an alternative outside the current D|emocrat nonsense.

The best answer cannot be to suspend democracy.

[kruangfaifar]

So, we who are well-read are aware of the profound depths of corruption endemic to Thai politics. When will the voters in Issan figure it out. Or maybe they've also known, but for them corruption is no big deal. Perhaps for them, being very rich (and making promises to make others rich) is what matters most. Making reforms in how poor Issan farmers think is as important as any other reforms.

Corruption is culturally embedded in the Thai psyche. It's similar to the concept of not being able to see anything wrong with buying pirated goods. How to change deep-set concepts in how people think? I don't know.

I think, if there are going to be 'reforms' that stick (at all) they'll have to come down the tubes from those who are elected to do such things. Currently, it's Shinawatre lovers who are winning elections. If reforms don't happen with them, then.... let's hope future elections will bring in (at least) a half-decent bunch of leaders who can implement some improvements.

So you think you are well read do you. Well unless you read and write Thailand to a high standard you are only scratching the surface of knowledge about this place. If you want to preach about corruption tread carefully. Have a look into GWB's connection to energy and defence companies and tell me that his sponsors didn't affect his decisions to waive Environmental study requirements for Alaskan oil exploration. Also note that Western companies can often pay a fine to stop investigation of their corruption. No one ever seems to go to jail. Blackwater. BAE. HSBC . Siemens the list is long

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[timewilltell]

So, we who are well-read are aware of the profound depths of corruption endemic to Thai politics. When will the voters in Issan figure it out. Or maybe they've also known, but for them corruption is no big deal. Perhaps for them, being very rich (and making promises to make others rich) is what matters most. Making reforms in how poor Issan farmers think is as important as any other reforms.

Corruption is culturally embedded in the Thai psyche. It's similar to the concept of not being able to see anything wrong with buying pirated goods. How to change deep-set concepts in how people think? I don't know.

I think, if there are going to be 'reforms' that stick (at all) they'll have to come down the tubes from those who are elected to do such things. Currently, it's Shinawatre lovers who are winning elections. If reforms don't happen with them, then.... let's hope future elections will bring in (at least) a half-decent bunch of leaders who can implement some improvements.

So you think you are well read do you. Well unless you read and write Thailand to a high standard you are only scratching the surface of knowledge about this place. If you want to preach about corruption tread carefully. Have a look into GWB's connection to energy and defence companies and tell me that his sponsors didn't affect his decisions to waive Environmental study requirements for Alaskan oil exploration. Also note that Western companies can often pay a fine to stop investigation of their corruption. No one ever seems to go to jail. Blackwater. BAE. HSBC . Siemens the list is long

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I really do not get the mindset that plays down the serious social issues in Thailand by comparison with other corrupt and despicable places. By that pathetic mindset you engage in a spiral of all things wrong, deeper and deeper by minimizing your own illegality and moral vacuum by pointing the finger at some other criminal doing a similar thing and inferring that minimizes your own illegality.

It's like going to court and saying that even though you ran over and killed someone, no-one should say anything because the Red Bull scumbag did it and he ran away. You are still guilty of the crime.

The PTP are the most corrupt government of all time in Thailand, but closely followed by all the previous governments on both sides. They are all devoid of a mindset of serving the country, in fact those involved are guilty of treason but no one wants to push the point.

Thailand needs some people with a mindset of helping the country be the best it can be. A mindset of no quarter for corruption starting with all those engaged in the education and law enforcement areas and the civil service. Then the country will move forward.

Thailand needs educated people from which to choose its next set of leaders and it needs a wide pool of people to choose from, not just those who are rich because most of those families are rich through corruption and will pass that mindset on to the children. It needs general education so people understand the principles of democracy, and those go far beyond just an ability for the citizens to vote. And it also needs a wide range of people who can be voted for - not just the ones that are around at the moment.

Thaksin is not all bad. Some of his policies have merit and some have been good, but now the policies make no sense, are on a path to bankrupt the country and are designed to foster corruption. In fact they are the worst of type because they pretend to help the poor and there is mass propaganda to promote them as such whereas they are purposely set up to benefit the rich. Look at the farmers now. Many not paid, many in debt to scumbag money lenders, many with costs that have doubled because all involved, land owners, feed suppliers, fertilizer suppliers, middlemen, millers and warehousemen all want a share of the bounty. But the market supports a price at half what they have been getting so who will take the pay cut? Who is the most vulnerable? Not the middlemen, land owners, warehousemen and millers is it?

Perhaps opening your eyes to reality of what has happened would be a start. If you think this will pay out any other way please enlighten the rest of us.

[Thai at Heart]

So, we who are well-read are aware of the profound depths of corruption endemic to Thai politics. When will the voters in Issan figure it out. Or maybe they've also known, but for them corruption is no big deal. Perhaps for them, being very rich (and making promises to make others rich) is what matters most. Making reforms in how poor Issan farmers think is as important as any other reforms.

Corruption is culturally embedded in the Thai psyche. It's similar to the concept of not being able to see anything wrong with buying pirated goods. How to change deep-set concepts in how people think? I don't know.

I think, if there are going to be 'reforms' that stick (at all) they'll have to come down the tubes from those who are elected to do such things. Currently, it's Shinawatre lovers who are winning elections. If reforms don't happen with them, then.... let's hope future elections will bring in (at least) a half-decent bunch of leaders who can implement some improvements.

So you think you are well read do you. Well unless you read and write Thailand to a high standard you are only scratching the surface of knowledge about this place. If you want to preach about corruption tread carefully. Have a look into GWB's connection to energy and defence companies and tell me that his sponsors didn't affect his decisions to waive Environmental study requirements for Alaskan oil exploration. Also note that Western companies can often pay a fine to stop investigation of their corruption. No one ever seems to go to jail. Blackwater. BAE. HSBC . Siemens the list is long

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I really do not get the mindset that plays down the serious social issues in Thailand by comparison with other corrupt and despicable places. By that pathetic mindset you engage in a spiral of all things wrong, deeper and deeper by minimizing your own illegality and moral vacuum by pointing the finger at some other criminal doing a similar thing and inferring that minimizes your own illegality.

It's like going to court and saying that even though you ran over and killed someone, no-one should say anything because the Red Bull scumbag did it and he ran away. You are still guilty of the crime.

The PTP are the most corrupt government of all time in Thailand, but closely followed by all the previous governments on both sides. They are all devoid of a mindset of serving the country, in fact those involved are guilty of treason but no one wants to push the point.

Thailand needs some people with a mindset of helping the country be the best it can be. A mindset of no quarter for corruption starting with all those engaged in the education and law enforcement areas and the civil service. Then the country will move forward.

Thailand needs educated people from which to choose its next set of leaders and it needs a wide pool of people to choose from, not just those who are rich because most of those families are rich through corruption and will pass that mindset on to the children. It needs general education so people understand the principles of democracy, and those go far beyond just an ability for the citizens to vote. And it also needs a wide range of people who can be voted for - not just the ones that are around at the moment.

Thaksin is not all bad. Some of his policies have merit and some have been good, but now the policies make no sense, are on a path to bankrupt the country and are designed to foster corruption. In fact they are the worst of type because they pretend to help the poor and there is mass propaganda to promote them as such whereas they are purposely set up to benefit the rich. Look at the farmers now. Many not paid, many in debt to scumbag money lenders, many with costs that have doubled because all involved, land owners, feed suppliers, fertilizer suppliers, middlemen, millers and warehousemen all want a share of the bounty. But the market supports a price at half what they have been getting so who will take the pay cut? Who is the most vulnerable? Not the middlemen, land owners, warehousemen and millers is it?

Perhaps opening your eyes to reality of what has happened would be a start. If you think this will pay out any other way please enlighten the rest of us.

Calm down. The country isn't going bankrupt. And they are all corrupt.

For this to work someone has to form a proper political party from fresh with NO ONE corrupt anywhere and appeal to the people. Can they find a couple of hundred completely clean people nationwide?

Yawn.....

[tonbridgebrit]

Yeah, yeah, as if Abhisit and the Democrats are a lesser kleptocracy than Thaksin if they ever get in power (via a coup).

That is what is called a piss-poor defence of the Thaksin project. The boiler room just bounces backwards and forwards between Thakin is innocent and Thaksin is guilty but so are the others. It is almost amusing to see them tie themselves up in knots attempting to play to the gallery.

This is why it is absolutely IMPERATIVE for someone to get hold of Abhisit, Korn and whoever else there is around to come up with an alternative outside the current D|emocrat nonsense.

The best answer cannot be to suspend democracy.

It's piss-easy to announce that Thai poltics and Thaksin is corrupt. A lot of people do find it funny when a bunch of Abhisit supporters jump up and down to raise the issue of Thaksin's corruption, when basically, we all know that they're not much better than Thaksin.

And it is funny that basically, the anti-Thaksinites want him out and go on about his corruption, they know that Thaksin will never leave through an election (elections that foreign 'independant' observers say are actually fair and not rigged), they need to see Thaksin out via a non-democratic method (a coup). BUT, BUT the anti-Thaksinites still need to call themselves 'democratic' !

[SheungWan]

Yeah, yeah, as if Abhisit and the Democrats are a lesser kleptocracy than Thaksin if they ever get in power (via a coup).

That is what is called a piss-poor defence of the Thaksin project. The boiler room just bounces backwards and forwards between Thakin is innocent and Thaksin is guilty but so are the others. It is almost amusing to see them tie themselves up in knots attempting to play to the gallery.

This is why it is absolutely IMPERATIVE for someone to get hold of Abhisit, Korn and whoever else there is around to come up with an alternative outside the current D|emocrat nonsense.

The best answer cannot be to suspend democracy.

It's piss-easy to announce that Thai poltics and Thaksin is corrupt. A lot of people do find it funny when a bunch of Abhisit supporters jump up and down to raise the issue of Thaksin's corruption, when basically, we all know that they're not much better than Thaksin.

And it is funny that basically, the anti-Thaksinites want him out and go on about his corruption, they know that Thaksin will never leave through an election (elections that foreign 'independant' observers say are actually fair and not rigged), they need to see Thaksin out via a non-democratic method (a coup). BUT, BUT the anti-Thaksinites still need to call themselves 'democratic' !

Re-running the idea that everybody is as bad as Thakin doesn't cut it. Particularly when those pushing the idea want Thaksin to have not only a free pass but want to ignore that the current crisis was instigated by the attempt to centre the whole function of government around the return of Thaksin and institutionalisation of corruption on him and his family. Fortunately there are some members of the judiciary that do not buy into (sic) the Thaksin project and we remember the judges who declined to accept the cigar boxes of cash proferred by Thaksin's representatives to find him not guilty of charges which he didn't even bother to challenge re the evidence provided for when he used his position to primarily benefit family interests. There is a an absolutely fundamental canard behind which the boiler room Thaksin apologists stand and that is that lawmakers are above the law. Or rather, Thaksin is. Not even a weekly election could sustain this nonsense. The only funny stuff is the western claque in their Che T-shirts always coming on like a bunch of starry-eyed idealists and inevitably finishing as hard-eyed Shinawatra gofers. Without exception.

[xylophone]

The original post (a newspaper article) just about nails it, irrespective of the author's background. However it only focuses on the current government and corruption, not the fact that should the Democrats be elected, it will be any different, because that's the way it's always been.

I think Jeffrey Race got it about right when he wrote his article in the Asia Times in January, saying that corruption was endemic throughout Thai society, however Thaksin and his cronies have taken it to a new level, and that is the problem. Normal everyday corruption is okay, but corruption at the high end of the scale is not – – he obviously put on his "Thai thinking cap" for this comment!

So there you have it, and the change in government will not change the fact that Thailand does not have a democracy, but as quite rightly stated in the OP, a kleptocracy.

As another poster has pointed out, this can never change all the while that corruption and its practices (and the wealth that goes with it) are handed down from generation to generation, coupled with the fact that the mass education of children stays at the low-end, with corruption still being practised there as well (paying for schools,grades etc).

I think us farangs had better get used to the idea that things won't change, no matter how much we rant and rave and think that we have found a solution, and just live here doing the best we can. And anyway, since when have Thais/Thailand listened to common sense, because it is not a feature of their culture/upbringing/genetic make up............leave Thailand to the Thais to sort out and hope that it can stumble along in some way, shape or form, without severely affecting those nearest and dearest to us.

Edited March 7, 2014 by xylophone