Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[White Christmas13]

So guys since I am a dumb ass, how big is a ship container?

I do know there is 20 foot or 40 foot containers which are

well below the 24m object sighted. Are there any bigger ones?

[GentlemanJim]

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If and that's a big if, the debris off of Aus turns out to be that of the missing 777 it raises some interesting issues. One possibility is that there was some sort of fire which incapacitated the crew, the ACAR's, the transponder and for some reason the auto pilot was put on to a southerly heading and continued until the fuel was exhausted.

The other option must take into consideration that given the range the plane could have flown this area is the best place to deliberately crash a plane if you never wanted it found and recovered. That indicates a pre-meditated action. If it was a terrorist act it is unlikely that they would have chosen to "disappear" the plane in this fashion.

I do not think that an autopilot will climb the plane to 45000' to later dive to 7000' and fly on that altitude until getting without fuel....and.hidden from the Diego Garcia 's air base radars, Indonesia, India, and not a phone call from anybody aboard..before or after whatever happened dall that time.

Many questions on the air...and no comments about facts, the US radar plane flying by Kuala Lumpur at the same time than the 777, the 20 high tech Chinese passenger working on a military project for a US firm, and the sight of the plane flying low by the Maldivies islands...in the way to.....

At the end....the easy way out of this mess will be to blame it in a fanatic pilot that decide to make an statement killing his self, his friends, and 230 passengers flying 6 hours to ditch the plane in the ocean close to Australia...

I am only answering a technicality you raise as I am stumped as to what has occurred. You state the autopilot would not take the aircraft to 45K then down to 7K, you are right, HOWEVER, IF the autopilot tripped out say due to an electric malfunction or as a result of being isolated by the crew prior to their incapacitation then the Mach trim tabs, which would cause a slight nose up force if not countered would indeed take the aircraft to a nose up attitude where it would continue to climb until it stalled, the aircraft could indeed have climbed on it's own to 45K, the air is thin and the difference between max speed and stalling is small. If the aircraft stalled (which it would), it would enter a very rapid descent until the aircraft trim system took effect again and managed to stabilise the aircraft back to straight and level flight at an altitude where the atmosphere is 'thicker'. If there was a fire was it extinguished due to the rarified atmosphere and the hull being depressurised? I don't know, but I do know the aircraft could go up to 45K and down to 7K and fly on until no fuel was left, that is entirely possible.

[slipperylobster]

seems legit.....although one retired U>S General seems to think it is not.....he supposes the plane reached a runway.....perhaps where....India.

[3NUMBAS]

call for 'black box' data to be uploaded to the cloud >>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box-data-uploaded-114238479.html#TzbqFZL

[canuckamuck]

The best theories are usually the most probable. I think we will file this one under the moon and star logo. Landed somewhere in the Stans.

I am very curious about how China will respond.

[impulse]

call for 'black box' data to be uploaded to the cloud >>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box-data-uploaded-114238479.html#TzbqFZL

All they really need to put into the cloud uninterrupted is location data so they know where to look for the black boxes. Can't imagine that eating too much bandwidth. Pretty sure FedEx and UPS can tell you where every one of their trucks and planes are at any given time.

With today's technology, I can't believe they don't have cockpit video so they don't have to infer what the pilots were doing from audio and flight data. Data storage costs less than 1% of what it cost when black boxes were developed- and it's solid state now.

I've read about pilots and privacy rights, but it would be helpful to know if there's someone in the cockpit that's forcing them to, for example, fly the plane into a tall building. They can query the cockpit video data as required, sparing satellite bandwidth.

[Asiantravel]

call for 'black box' data to be uploaded to the cloud >>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box-data-uploaded-114238479.html#TzbqFZL

why not ?

And this article suggests it would be quite inexpensive. Think of how much all the countries combined in this search have spent so far?

http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/aviation-is-stuck-in-the-60s-a-reflection-on-mh-370.html

[Chicog]

call for 'black box' data to be uploaded to the cloud >>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box-data-uploaded-114238479.html#TzbqFZL

They don't even need that. Just ping the GPS location once a minute, that's close enough. And don't let the pilot turn it off.

Not exactly a massive amount of data to transmit, and in cases like this you only need the last one.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Chicog

[Chicog]

So guys since I am a dumb ass, how big is a ship container?

I do know there is 20 foot or 40 foot containers which are

well below the 24m object sighted. Are there any bigger ones?

I think the biggest you can get are 45'.

But that's not to say people might not have made custom ones (military or specialist equipment for example).

[Chicog]

Question to the Transport minister asking if he'd requested refuelling tankers to allow aircraft to stay in the search area longer.

He basically replied "I hadn't thought of that, I'll ask them tonight".

Good God.

[balo]

24 meter debris, that can't be a container but a lot of stuff is floating in the ocean. Probably not the plane imo.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 21, 2014 by balo

[Chicog]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

[Gweiloman]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

I believe this quoted price of $10 per flight is wholesale and not retail. Assuming that this software upgrade would retail at $20 per flight. For a carrier like MH, (pure supposition here), assuming 100 flights per day, this would come to $730,000 per annum. No longer peanuts unfortunately.

[Chicog]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

I believe this quoted price of $10 per flight is wholesale and not retail. Assuming that this software upgrade would retail at $20 per flight. For a carrier like MH, (pure supposition here), assuming 100 flights per day, this would come to $730,000 per annum. No longer peanuts unfortunately.

It is peanuts. If you divvied that up per ticket, it's nothing.

[Gweiloman]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

I believe this quoted price of $10 per flight is wholesale and not retail. Assuming that this software upgrade would retail at $20 per flight. For a carrier like MH, (pure supposition here), assuming 100 flights per day, this would come to $730,000 per annum. No longer peanuts unfortunately.

It is peanuts. If you divvied that up per ticket, it's nothing.

Try telling that to the bean counters

[impulse]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

I believe this quoted price of $10 per flight is wholesale and not retail. Assuming that this software upgrade would retail at $20 per flight. For a carrier like MH, (pure supposition here), assuming 100 flights per day, this would come to $730,000 per annum. No longer peanuts unfortunately.

Less than $0.10 per seat is peanuts- less than $0.05 on a wide body.

[NeverSure]

We're not in the Pacific are we, and you don't know where or when the plane went down, nor do you know what currents and weather have been at work.

Nice one Sherlock.

Watson the debris they spotted is still a very long way from the southernmost point of the southern ark of the search area. you will find there was nothing to get excited about, just because they saw something floating in The Indian Ocean garbage patch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_Garbage_Patch

I don't believe those two items in the water a long way off Australia are anything to do with the crash................ because I don't believe the plane crashed.

I believe in the theory being put forward by Retired Lt. General. Thomas McInerney

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/missing-mh370-thomas-mcinerney-doubles-down-says-plane-landed-in-pakistan-video/

Well, that's what I've saying and suspecting.

But who knows who's right?

[Gweiloman]

It seems that there was a cargo of lithium ion batteries on board. These are apparently categorised as dangerous cargo and could be unstable at altitude and could catch fire if not transported correctly.

[Asiantravel]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

I believe this quoted price of $10 per flight is wholesale and not retail. Assuming that this software upgrade would retail at $20 per flight. For a carrier like MH, (pure supposition here), assuming 100 flights per day, this would come to $730,000 per annum. No longer peanuts unfortunately.

Less than $0.10 per seat is peanuts- less than $0.05 on a wide body.

Can't see Ryanair ever doing it considering they wanted to charge passengers to take a pee if they could have got away with it

[besth]

Not implausible but highly improbable.

If the plane has been shot down, surely there would be some debris / bodies recovered by now, considering how extensive the search effort has been on both air and sea, on both coasts of Malaysia.

I tend to agree that the shoot down scenario is pretty remote, but I shudder to think of the blowback if, for example, Malaysia shot down a planeload of Chinese citizens, even if they had determined that the plane was hijacked for the purpose of crashing into Petronas Tower. In that case, I'd expect them to point the search effort as far away as possible, while cleaning up all evidence of a missile strike, before they eventually reported the discovery of a debris field.

Even if Beijing wanted to do nothing in retaliation, the nationalist fervor they have fomented recently in China would pretty much force them to respond, lest the CCP look weak in the eyes of their citizenry.

Conspiracy theorists could go wild speculating what kind of 3rd party help they'd be getting to keep such a scenario from going real bad real quick.

I'm not betting on any particular scenario, just (wishful thinking) they're safe on the ground being bargained for as search efforts garner all the attention.

Accepting that nobody knows anything and suspecting that different governments are hiding information, not necessarily for the wrong reasons, this sounds like the most unlikely of explanations.

Does anyone think for a second that the Beijing government would hesitate to bring down a plane, even if Chinese, with full Chinese crew and passengers, if they thought it was going to attack one of their cities? The would do it without moving an eyelid and they are a government that would accept that without even a formal protest.

The Pennsylvania United Airlines 93 in 9/11 was brought down by the passengers trying to regain control or save others in their effort.

If I had a family member in one of the planes that crashed into the NY twin towers,

would I have let thousands of people die to save him/her? Probably yes. If I had known that there was no way to save my loved one, would I have pressed a theoretical button to blow that plane and save everybody else? Absolutely, without any hesitation. This is not a case where the Malaysian government could have been questioned for acting strongly if that was the situation. It must have been something else.

Unfortunately there is no way yet to bring closure to the families of the passengers and crew until something is found for sure. Hopefully it is a hijack and they are all somewhere, but it seems very much that eventually the remains of the plane will be found at the bottom of the ocean, with all lives aboard lost with it. Maybe one day we will know what happened.

[Arma]

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So guys since I am a dumb ass, how big is a ship container?

I do know there is 20 foot or 40 foot containers which are

well below the 24m object sighted. Are there any bigger ones?

I think the biggest you can get are 45'.

But that's not to say people might not have made custom ones (military or specialist equipment for example).

Commercial shipping containers are 20', 40' and 80' - with the 80' containers used much less frequently than others

[NeverSure]

We're not in the Pacific are we, and you don't know where or when the plane went down, nor do you know what currents and weather have been at work.

Nice one Sherlock.

Watson the debris they spotted is still a very long way from the southernmost point of the southern ark of the search area. you will find there was nothing to get excited about, just because they saw something floating in The Indian Ocean garbage patch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_Garbage_Patch

I don't believe those two items in the water a long way off Australia are anything to do with the crash................ because I don't believe the plane crashed.

I believe in the theory being put forward by Retired Lt. General. Thomas McInerney

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/missing-mh370-thomas-mcinerney-doubles-down-says-plane-landed-in-pakistan-video/

I believe that's from Fox News, just in case you were wondering why it isn't being taken very seriously.

I think it's actually from Gen. Thomas McInerney.

[steven100]

object now thought to be old shipping containers ...

This is turning into comedy cappers ...

Absolutely unbelievable that this is 2014 & this is how it happens !!

The defence rests your honour ....

[canuckamuck]

I don't believe those two items in the water a long way off Australia are anything to do with the crash................ because I don't believe the plane crashed.

I believe in the theory being put forward by Retired Lt. General. Thomas McInerney

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/missing-mh370-thomas-mcinerney-doubles-down-says-plane-landed-in-pakistan-video/

Well, that's what I've saying and suspecting.

But who knows who's right?

I think the General is talkin bs..

Why hijack a fully-loaded plane when you can buy a second hand executive jet for a few million.

I am sure plenty of gulf potentates would cough that for tha glory of Islam.

The missing plane sits at the bottom of the ocean afaik...

The Malaysian authorities and possibly the Americans are aware of what happened.

I wouldn't expect any official explanations soon if ever.

Actually I just read the the Malaysian Transport minister said that we are in for the 'long haul'.

Right...

If they had to steal a plane to get one, that only means that particular group is either not well funded, or this was an opportunity to get something of high value relatively cheaply. 2nd hand triple 7's go for about 50 million, if I am not mistaken.

[retell]

I don't believe those two items in the water a long way off Australia are anything to do with the crash................ because I don't believe the plane crashed.

I believe in the theory being put forward by Retired Lt. General. Thomas McInerney

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/missing-mh370-thomas-mcinerney-doubles-down-says-plane-landed-in-pakistan-video/

Well, that's what I've saying and suspecting.

But who knows who's right?

I think the General is talkin bs..

Why hijack a fully-loaded plane when you can buy a second hand executive jet for a few million.

I am sure plenty of gulf potentates would cough that for tha glory of Islam.

The missing plane sits at the bottom of the ocean afaik...

The Malaysian authorities and possibly the Americans are aware of what happened.

I wouldn't expect any official explanations soon if ever.

Actually I just read the the Malaysian Transport minister said that we are in for the 'long haul'.

Right...

If they had to steal a plane to get one, that only means that particular group is either not well funded, or this was an opportunity to get something of high value relatively cheaply. 2nd hand triple 7's go for about 50 million, if I am not mistaken.

It is not like selling a stolen mountainbike i think

Send with Commodore 64

[chooka]

We're not in the Pacific are we, and you don't know where or when the plane went down, nor do you know what currents and weather have been at work.

Nice one Sherlock.

Watson the debris they spotted is still a very long way from the southernmost point of the southern ark of the search area. you will find there was nothing to get excited about, just because they saw something floating in The Indian Ocean garbage patch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_Garbage_Patch

I don't believe those two items in the water a long way off Australia are anything to do with the crash................ because I don't believe the plane crashed.

I believe in the theory being put forward by Retired Lt. General. Thomas McInerney

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/missing-mh370-thomas-mcinerney-doubles-down-says-plane-landed-in-pakistan-video/

Well, that's what I've saying and suspecting.

But who knows who's right?

Time to call Australia and tell them to call off their search.

[NeverSure]

I don't believe those two items in the water a long way off Australia are anything to do with the crash................ because I don't believe the plane crashed.

I believe in the theory being put forward by Retired Lt. General. Thomas McInerney

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/missing-mh370-thomas-mcinerney-doubles-down-says-plane-landed-in-pakistan-video/

Well, that's what I've saying and suspecting.

But who knows who's right?

I think the General is talkin bs..

Why hijack a fully-loaded plane when you can buy a second hand executive jet for a few million.

I am sure plenty of gulf potentates would cough that for tha glory of Islam.

The missing plane sits at the bottom of the ocean afaik...

The Malaysian authorities and possibly the Americans are aware of what happened.

I wouldn't expect any official explanations soon if ever.

Actually I just read the the Malaysian Transport minister said that we are in for the 'long haul'.

Right...

If they had to steal a plane to get one, that only means that particular group is either not well funded, or this was an opportunity to get something of high value relatively cheaply. 2nd hand triple 7's go for about 50 million, if I am not mistaken.

Maybe it wasn't the plane but rather something on the plane they wanted.

I think governments are being too quiet or too obtuse about this. They can't be stupid enough to continue this misdirection and these contradictions without a reason.

[Chicog]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

I believe this quoted price of $10 per flight is wholesale and not retail. Assuming that this software upgrade would retail at $20 per flight. For a carrier like MH, (pure supposition here), assuming 100 flights per day, this would come to $730,000 per annum. No longer peanuts unfortunately.

It is peanuts. If you divvied that up per ticket, it's nothing.

Try telling that to the bean counters

The Bean counters are not permitted to ignore FAA, CAA, DGCA orders.

[Credo]

Interestingly, a bloke from Inmarsat said that you could report a plane's position for $10 a flight.

Not exactly breaking the bank, is it?

I believe this quoted price of $10 per flight is wholesale and not retail. Assuming that this software upgrade would retail at $20 per flight. For a carrier like MH, (pure supposition here), assuming 100 flights per day, this would come to $730,000 per annum. No longer peanuts unfortunately.

It is peanuts. If you divvied that up per ticket, it's nothing.

Try telling that to the bean counters

I think you have to compare the cost of tracking to the cost of possibly being able to save a plane. In this case, I would guess that the search and recovery efforts have been enormously expensive.

[Chicog]

It seems that there was a cargo of lithium ion batteries on board. These are apparently categorised as dangerous cargo and could be unstable at altitude and could catch fire if not transported correctly.

So the batteries turned off the transponder, turned off ACARS, programmed the navigation computer and....

&lt;deleted&gt;, why do I bother.