Army should stop with its pretentiousness and address real issues

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

maybe you should practice what you preach and try being impartial too.

[thesetat2013]

While the Army is set on going after the separatist red shirts, should they also be rounding up the people 's council and Suthep"s thugs for the same charges. they are advocating the overthrow of an elected government and the installation of an unelected body.

Its not the armys role to protect political views or democracy. It is their role to protect the king, the land, and the thai people. This has been exactly what they have been doing. So before you come here to whine you should know what you are talking about.

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[SOTIRIOS]

...historically........in any country...acts of treason and subterfuge...are always punished....

[Bangmod]

In a real democracy the army is responsible for one purpose only: protecting the country and its citizen. However, if you let them run banks and enterprises and take over lucrative business meant for the private sector and mingle in politics, you will probably create a force beyond control. The army should simply stay out of politics at all.

The army should simply stay out of politics at all. I totally agree with you, but so should the police.

And all the so called politicians who are in government right now

[SICHONSTEVE]

If the Army doesnt react quickly to this talk of secession it will get out of hand. As for it just being something said in anger or frustration i find hard to believe since they have already said this has been in discussion for 6 months.

Now with the Reds recruiting a force of young men who is to say once this force is large enough that they will not take up arms and attempt a real secession.

Since YL and her party has known about their talks of secession it is clear they support this should they lose power here.

This was obvious when the Reds began speaking publically about secession and the PM didnt speak against it for a week. About the same time the RTA started to give warnings to end such talks. I fear that the delays in removing this GOV is only to give the REDS time to make their army and seceede from thailand with YL or Thaksin as their leader.

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I agree, admitting to holding talks for 6 months and in trying to form a trained army of 200,000 - 600,000 young men does bring forth some strong and serious concerns.

What they fail to appreciate is that if Lannaland or whatever it is to be called broke away from Thailand then they would struggle to survive on their own!!! For a start, any involvement with the Shinawatra stamp on it would be catastrophic for the region and they would be forced to crawl back and plead for assistance from 'wealthy Thailand' soon after forming - which would be given on compassion grounds. If they are prepared to test the waters on this and go for it, then 'hell' lies in wait, around the corner!!

The only gainers would be Thailand, as they wouldn't have to subsidise the rice industry.

[pookiki]

The Thai 'justice' system is so convoluted and confusing, it is beyond comprehension to me. An Ombudsman can question the legitimacy of the government? Give me a break. A senator can file a case for impeachment over a court case lost by the PM? Absurd! Generals deciding what is and what isn't against the law and target private citizens? Certainly has the markings of a military dictatorship to me. But with 14 coups on the books, this is more than likely the case.

[monkeycountry]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

If the police and DSI had been neutral, perhaps the army would not have to interfere. Several armed groups have attacked and killed anti government protesters numerous times and the police/DSI have done nothing.

Someone blows a whistle at Thaksin's eks, and the police/DSI are immediately all over the case. Then someone tries to injure or kill the whistleblower, and again the police/DSI are asleep :-)

The army may never be seen as protector of the nation by you and the red shirts, but to many people in Bangkok, the east and the south, the army is seen as the only protector of the nation.

You will be surprised to see how many people outside the north/northeast consider 90 dead red shirts and soldiers? as a "reasonable" end to the 2010 problem. 0 dead would of course have been better, but some also consider the damage and deaths caused by the red shirts back then, and the potential further damage and deaths they could have caused had they not been stopped.

Edited March 9, 2014 by monkeycountry

[thailife69]

The question that must be answered by the Thai Military is why are your guns repeatedly pointed at the majority?

[pisico]

The Thai 'justice' system is so convoluted and confusing, it is beyond comprehension to me. An Ombudsman can question the legitimacy of the government? Give me a break. A senator can file a case for impeachment over a court case lost by the PM? Absurd! Generals deciding what is and what isn't against the law and target private citizens? Certainly has the markings of a military dictatorship to me. But with 14 coups on the books, this is more than likely the case.

Well articulated analysis. However, any coup that puts Democrats in office is justifiable in the minds of many in TV.

The simpletons of this world cannot overcome their tunnel vision of reality. Thaksin bad, Abhisit, Suthep good!

The palm oil scam, the lack of preparedness in preventable natural phenomena, (floods among many), are never remembered by the arm chair protestors in TV. The massive amount of money squandered on lavish photo-ops, trips overseas and corruption (hundreds of millions of Bahts in a closet of a Secretary of Transport) are only small hiccups of their tenure. The lack of improvement of the school system and/or health care for all in the country are forgivable because... well, Democrats mean well even if they do not act properly.

And so it goes in Lilliput and TV. Sometimes when I read the posts of some members I wonder if Thainess is not contagious.

[metisdead]

Please remember there is to be No Discussion Of The Monarchy In Political Context, a post has been removed.

Other posts suggesting hypothetical assassination scenarios have been removed as well as the replies.

[monkeycountry]

The question that must be answered by the Thai Military is why are your guns repeatedly pointed at the majority?

If you are referring to the red shirts as the majority, then I would guess it is because they are usually, not always, the ones with the most guns, and the most aggressive intentions? Edited March 9, 2014 by monkeycountry

[SICHONSTEVE]

The question that must be answered by the Thai Military is why are your guns repeatedly pointed at the majority?

What!!!!.........not worth responding to as it is just too ridiculous!!

[monkeycountry]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

While I agree the airport should not have been closed, I do not think there was any threat to Thai security was there? Noone was hurting anyone or intended to hurt anyone, and noone was threatening the army's role as the only military force of the country, or trying to divide the country into separate states.

So in short, there was no threat to neither the army nor the security of Thailand and it's citizens! I hope this answers your question - even if you don't like the answer.

Edited March 9, 2014 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

The army will be well remembered for their assistance during the floods. Not sure but I never heard of them putting their name on donated goods.

Especially not on other peoples/countries' donated goods :-)

[monkeycountry]

While the Army is set on going after the separatist red shirts, should they also be rounding up the people 's council and Suthep"s thugs for the same charges. they are advocating the overthrow of an elected government and the installation of an unelected body.

It is just a guess, but it may be because you and the army read your last sentence differently? They may read it as follows:

"They are advocating the overthrow of a (corrupt) elected government and the installation of a (temporary) unelected (reform) body.

Or maybe they just don't care, as unlike the red shirts, the anti government protesters are not challenging any of the army's interests?

Edited March 9, 2014 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

What about protecting unarmed voters from armed anti-democracy thugs?

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Are unarmed voters being attacked by armed anti-democracy thugs?

[SICHONSTEVE]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

What about protecting unarmed voters from armed anti-democracy thugs?

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Are unarmed voters being attacked by armed anti-democracy thugs?

Yes - don't you watch u tube??!!!

Didn't you see the dead bodies strewn out over large swathes of 'the polling fields'???

I believe that several were unmercifully hacked to death after proclaiming 'Thaksin is great'

[monkeycountry]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

so you want to forget that 1 month ago I printed here on Thai Visa my thai wants to sell our house and businees here in Udon Thani as we have been advised it will soon be a red governed state

so how long is this, was just an over night silly thought

Thais have know about this plan for months

Yes the army needs to be impartial,

but treason is treason no matter how you look at it

There was no treason. Treason is defined as "the betrayal of one's own country by waging war against it or by consciously or purposely acting to aid its enemies". One could easily argue that the military personnel who aided and abetted the Khmer Roucge in the 1990's were guilty of treason as the Khmer rouge were technically enemies of Thailand. The person implicated in this specific event has broached the subject of sovereignty, of independence for a region which is very different than treason.

In Scotland, there are those who support independence. They are not guilty of treason against the UK. In Texas, USA there is a populist movement that advocates independence and seceding from the Union. They are not guilty of treason against the USA.In Quebec, and Alberta Canada there are groups who advocate independence for their respective provinces. They are not guilty of treason against Canada.In Issan, we have one man who has allegedly advocated independence for Issan. It is not treason. If his idea has no merit, it will be rejected by the people.

BTW, one thing I learnt from TVF is that an individual should never own or invest in Thailand anything other than what he is prepared to lose or walk away from. It is the most valuable advice I have received.

While I do agree with your last advice, the downside to that advise is that you are then also alot less likely to ever make any real money if you live in Thailand.

[monkeycountry]

If I were to advocate assassinating Yingluk (as an example only, I do not advocate any such action) would that be acceptable because it is only a shallow idea without support, expressed by an emotional man who feels that his southern based family has been discriminated against by this government?

Which laws are OK to break because it is done by government supporters, and will it still be OK when done by their opponents?

Suthep has already done that, on stage,

But Sutheps rhetoric regarding the children of his enemies is less than righteous. He has repeatedly invoked a 10-year-old boy Yinglucks son, nicknamed Pipe in his lacerating condemnations of the premier. His most recent tirade imagined an ominous future for the prime ministers son.

In the days ahead, your child will become an orphan and he will curse you, Suthep said to raucous applause. The premier, he said, will soon be locked away and your bastard son, Pipe, will surely be abandoned.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/140225/thais-bring-children-the-insurrection-despite-rec

Comments, anyone?

Yes, your own quote killed you own argument :-)

You claim Suthep has advocated the assasination of Yinguck on stage and then post a quote where Suthep suggests Yingluck's kid will become and orphan because Yingluck will be in jail (ie. not assasinated)

You are aware that highlighting part of a quote does not make the rest of the quote disappear right? TVF is not a red shirt rally, most people here can actually read :-)

Talk about an own goal :-D

Edited March 9, 2014 by monkeycountry

[rocky3]

monkeycountry, take off your yellow glasses and look at how Suthep and his thugs have the wool pulled over your eyes. breaking the law is not the correct way to go about change. you keep tearing apart this country and laws and soon it will be run by totally lawless politicians. you will not have an elected government as long as you allow people like Suthep to fill the streets on a personnel vendetta. I never said that Yingluck was the best I just said that this action should have been done within the confines of the laws and the courts. there are right ways to do things and there are wrong ways. keep going on like you are and protest will never stop.

[SICHONSTEVE]

monkeycountry, take off your yellow glasses and look at how Suthep and his thugs have the wool pulled over your eyes. breaking the law is not the correct way to go about change. you keep tearing apart this country and laws and soon it will be run by totally lawless politicians. you will not have an elected government as long as you allow people like Suthep to fill the streets on a personnel vendetta. I never said that Yingluck was the best I just said that this action should have been done within the confines of the laws and the courts. there are right ways to do things and there are wrong ways. keep going on like you are and protest will never stop.

Are you for real???

Suthep and WHAT thugs???

The protesters are doing so legally and peacefully despite the red's intimidation!!

Apart from stating that 'Yingluck is not the best' - ludicrously understated but the only thing you mention that I agree with.

Suthep simply wants an election that is free and fair AFTER reforms, but nothing doing from Yingluck on this as it will halt her brother's corrupt and fraudulent activities in their tracks.

He is not tearing apart the country and laws - he is applying them to stop this government riding roughshod over them.

The funniest bit is 'soon it will be run by totally lawless politicians'!! - precisely what Suthep is trying to put an end to!!!

Suthep is doing exactly what you prescribe he should do - checking the corrupt practices being continually committed by PTP politicians through apprehending them by enforcing the laws through the courts.

Until Yingluck removes herself from her fantasy world of pretending that she is important and a real prime minister then Thailand cannot function!!

You are the one that needs to open his eyes and use his brain to gain a real assessment as to what damage this government is doing to Thailand and it's citizens!!!

[monkeycountry]

monkeycountry, take off your yellow glasses and look at how Suthep and his thugs have the wool pulled over your eyes. breaking the law is not the correct way to go about change. you keep tearing apart this country and laws and soon it will be run by totally lawless politicians. you will not have an elected government as long as you allow people like Suthep to fill the streets on a personnel vendetta. I never said that Yingluck was the best I just said that this action should have been done within the confines of the laws and the courts. there are right ways to do things and there are wrong ways. keep going on like you are and protest will never stop.

In my opinion the country is already run by "totally lawless politicians" (incl. Suthep) and it is getting worse after each election, not better.

I don't care if we have an elected government, I just want a proper government, and so far elections have not given me that, so perhaps it is time to try something else?

To me democracy and elections are just a means to an end, not the goal itself. I would rather have a decent unelected leader than an elected idiot. The question for me is, how do we find this decent leader? and randomly asking 60+ million people, many if not most of whom are not too bright themselves (I am being polite), is probably not going to help.

The laws here are already useless, as noone enforces them, and everyone interprets them differently.

In my opinion the PTP/Shinawatras are ruining the country financially, which is about the worst thing that can happen (besides civil war), so they should be stopped by any means, and it seems the only means available are Suthep and/or the army, so I will take either one. I don't want Suthep to be the PM, I just want to get rid of the government. Even an actual monkey or an army general (not comparing) would be an improvement. They might not do any good, but at least they don't do much damage either.

[lomatopo]

If the Army doesnt react quickly to this talk of secession it will get out of hand.

What a joke. The Army reacted by "talking", accusing people of expressing ideas of treason, which is about all they're capable of doing it seems.

This Army pooh-bah should either put-up: cite relevant legal codes, issue arrest warrants, serve said warrants, and prosecute, or shut the <deleted> up.

What a tool.

[SICHONSTEVE]

If the Army doesnt react quickly to this talk of secession it will get out of hand.

What a joke. The Army reacted by "talking", accusing people of expressing ideas of treason, which is about all they're capable of doing it seems.

This Army pooh-bah should either put-up: cite relevant legal codes, issue arrest warrants, serve said warrants, and prosecute, or shut the <deleted> up.

What a tool.

Tell me, whose role is it to arrest people and uphold the law. To help you, I will reveal two possibilities:

A). The army

. The police

OK, press that button now - if you get it right, review your post, then it may reveal who the tool is!!!.

[lomatopo]

Tell me, whose role is it to arrest people and uphold the law. To help you, I will reveal two possibilities:

A). The army

. The police

OK, press that button now - if you get it right, review your post, then it may reveal who the tool is!!!

Well. I assume the General is a citizen, and citizens can file complaints with the police?

"The Army is demanding legal action be taken"

But I know it is much easier for him to spout off, and accuse other Thai citizens of treason without any supporting legal argument. Again, a total tool.

Edited March 9, 2014 by lomatopo

[smedly]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

what on earth has the army got to do with it, it is a civil matter and should have been dealt with by the police - why did the police not deal with it, I can give my opinion on that - they simply don't understand what upholding the law means and what their duties are to all members of Thai society - that is why the RTP is badly in need of reform - police ranks are routinely replaced based on their political affiliation by what ever government is in office - that is a fundamental error and needs serious attention, I to an extent feel sorry for them constantly being used as political pawns

[rocky3]

sichonsteve,

in my opinion Sutheh and his minions ceased to be a legal demonstration when they set about blocking poll registrations and polling. This was unlawful under the constitution and when this was brought up to the courts they said that the protestors were peaceful law abiding citizens. BS Arrest warrants were issued by the criminal courts for his actions, and yet he still remains free and protected by someone higher up. Do your own research on Suthep and see how corrupt he has been in the past, and remember a leopard never changes its spots. Suthep had his hand in writing this constitution and was involved in seeing that the referendum went forward and opposition to it was blocked forcefully. He didn't get it right and now he wants it changed again. Everyone is now appointed, don't be surprised as this is what you might get.

The Thai's do not have a good system yet, nor do they have good politicians that can be trusted to run the country properly. Political coalitions have been formed in the past to govern Thailand and all of the discussions were based on who controls what cabinet positions and how much money is in my budget, not on who knows anything about running cabinet position.

My biggest fear is that if things continue as they are we will see more and more demonstrations against any government.

[khunken]

Tell me, whose role is it to arrest people and uphold the law. To help you, I will reveal two possibilities:

A). The army

. The police

OK, press that button now - if you get it right, review your post, then it may reveal who the tool is!!!

Well. I assume the General is a citizen, and citizens can file complaints with the police?

"The Army is demanding legal action be taken"

But I know it is much easier for him to spout off, and accuse other Thai citizens of treason without any supporting legal argument. Again, a total tool.

File complaints with the police? They are the tools of Thaksin.

The army are accusing the 'Lalaland' group and Ko Tee with secession - not treason. Just a few days ago Yingluck asked (?) the lala mob to desist - did you miss that?

It is a storm in a teacup. Ko Tee should have been arrested some time ago after his attacks on various groups of people that he seems to think shouldn't be allowed to protest.

There is plenty of evidence - statements and banners - from those touting secession. However adding more grist to the courts' petition mill is not very clever now.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Tell me, whose role is it to arrest people and uphold the law. To help you, I will reveal two possibilities:

A). The army

. The police

OK, press that button now - if you get it right, review your post, then it may reveal who the tool is!!!

Well. I assume the General is a citizen, and citizens can file complaints with the police?

"The Army is demanding legal action be taken"

But I know it is much easier for him to spout off, and accuse other Thai citizens of treason without any supporting legal argument. Again, a total tool.

Yes, he has done, he filed complaints a while back - whether Thaksin's police force will do anything about it is doubtable though!!

They have a confession from the man himself when he admitted putting up the banners over a fly over in Don Meuang, so I doubt that he can claim innocence now - I would imagine that that would be more than enough to implicate him. I think that the net stretches a lot further than that with (caretaker) government ministers like the interior minister calling for armed resistance if they don't get their way!!

Also, it is the army's duty to ensure national security and so he has every right (in fact he is obligated) to pursue this traitor and have him dealt with by the courts.

[shiok]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

What about protecting unarmed voters from armed anti-democracy thugs?

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'Anti-democracy?' oh you mean the shins!!!