Missing plane highlights Phuket's stolen passport trade

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to a news article about a hijacking in China in 2012 has been removed as it is irrelevant to this case. Replies have been removed as well.

[jcb2001]

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

Thailand has always been know for being a hub for human trafficking. Wheither it's Phuket or Chang Mai, it's irrelevant. Most of the counterfeit documents presented to airlines and immigration inspectors have had some connection with Thailand.

[zydeco]

Steve Vickers said on a Channel News Asia interview that Bangkok is the hub of stolen passports (and other documents) in Asia. So let's just say that Thailand is the hub of stolen passports.

The passports are stolen all over Thailand, and obiously more frequently in tourist venues where tourists willingly give up their passports when renting a motorbike, or jets ski. They are also stolen off tourists at hotels by cleaning staff. The passports then are sold to dealers in Bangkok where they are in turn sold on.

With the bit of bad press Thailand is getting from this passport issue, will be curious if

there is some sort of instant response perhaps in the form of not allowing a rental

company to keep your passport, making it a serious crime to steal a passport, and

eliminating the stupid law requiring you to carry around your passport. Be forced to

carry your passport with you in the land of pickpockets is inviting a problem...

i carry always only a laminated copy from my passport& visapage & copy departure card togheter with my 5 years Thai driving licence ..,.only for official purposes i carry genuine passport, if not enough for the authority's they can fine or arrest me for a little time untill i call some to go get my passport an d bring to me....it is Always less problem than loosing it ...!!

Unless someone breaks into your house and steals it while you're gone. Too many ways for the bad guys to get you, here. You can't even lock up your important papers in a safety deposit box, as the story a year or so ago about the bank employees caught on CCTV breaking into safety deposit boxes proves.

Edited March 10, 2014 by zydeco

[davejones23]

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

Don't you bother reading the news before posting such stupid comments? Why single out Phuket? Because that's where the passports were stolen from that were used to get on the flight. What do you want the report to say - how many passports were stolen in Paris? They were stolen in Phuket. That's why it's being singled out. Also, because more passports get stolen there then in probably every other tourist destination.

[jcb2001]

The stolen passports were on the Interpol database, would have had red lights flashing at the KL immigration...... officer ignored it?..... in on a people smuggling racket perhaps.....

Maybe not, most likely the immigration officer is too lazy to verify or look into the issue deeper or is under a time constraint to process passengers faster.

[david555]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

i carry always only a laminated copy from my passport& visapage & copy departure card togheter with my 5 years Thai driving licence ..,.only for official purposes i carry genuine passport, if not enough for the authority's they can fine or arrest me for a little time untill i call some to go get my passport an d bring to me....it is Always less problem than loosing it ...!!

Unless someone breaks into your house and steals it while you're gone. Too many ways for the bad guys to get you, here. You can't even lock up your important papers in a safety deposit box, as the story a year or so ago about the bank employees caught on CCTV breaking into safety deposit boxes proves.

Just limiting seriously the possibility's this way , 100% safety does not exist ....the only 100% in life is that whe all die at the end....

[david555]

last time on my return flight BKK>AMS>BKK (so return to BKK from Amsterdam) by boarding i asked the KLM stewardess "you do not check passport or visa anymore ? she answerd me that checkin did that already ..... my answer and situation ; i did checkin online and did automatic bagage deposit ( boarding print machine )and allowed so to go direct to gate ..... nobody saw my passport or visa , only she checked my boarding pass ....she was surprised and look worried and go ask a higher one about it ...

he whole flight she was very friendly but worried .... probably she tought i was from quality control or so (bad man i am i took regular times a paper and make notices )

, but this prouves controles are not waterproof Always ....

PS; remember that English kickboxer Lee Althouse who killed that US marine in Phuket ..... he als could reach the UK from Phuket too even when thai BIB looked for him ....UK where he be arrested (and now in Thai prison after extradition )

How did you get through immigration in AMS before boarding the flight? AFAIK Thailand is no yet in the Schengen area...

(I admit the PP should have been checked again before boarding the plane).

i mean here that nobody from the airline saw my passport , ofcourse i passed the border controle to go to the airside .... but on airside changing persons with the boarding pass could be possible , so by this way some could go on board who is not the real one .... even i am not a Thai but a Schengen i have to show my passport .. , i only point to the responsability from the airline ...

And in the Malaysia case those 2 also haved to pass border controle ....seems ..so why could it eventually not anyware elses (last time 2 journalists switched passports and passed border controle for a test , was on TV in Belgium )

IMHO the first line of defence in this case is the immigration point. No gate agent from an airline is trained enough to find those whom have put enough effort in their bad behaviour. The exchange of passports could have happened in pretty much every airport. Because the only thing they can check if the passport is stolen. they only check if name is matching on boarding card.

Most of the times when I arrive at an european airport my ID card or passport is only looked upon, even in my own home country.

I would be the first one to volunteer to have travel documents checked at check-in, immigration and boarding gate against a database with all stolen PP if they would ease the liquid limitation on the other hand.

All my flights with Eva Air & Airberlin before boarding there was a passport check , that is why i was surprised that time with KLM at Amsterdam , probably "a little hole "in the procedure they did not noticed , that is why i remarked it to them..!! (online checkin in combination with automated bagage drop machine and printing boarding pass by just a QR code scan )

Edited March 10, 2014 by david555

[tartempion]

No checks if these two passports were used to fly from Bangkok to Kuala Lumphur between purchase date of the Pattaya tickets to Bejing and Europe?

They could have purchased tickets online with Air Asia or so.

And not many airport check-ins have connection with Interpol stolen database then, who cares really?

[Deez]

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

"Why single out Phuket?" Because we are in thailand. Out of the thousands stolen each year, hundreds are in one city Phuket. Seems relevant to me. Add to that a good chance the BIB are in on it and the question might be…why defend Phuket? Or Pucket as you say..lol

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Quote

Quote

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

Thailand has always been know for being a hub for human trafficking. Wheither it's Phuket or Chang Mai, it's irrelevant. Most of the counterfeit documents presented to airlines and immigration inspectors have had some connection with Thailand.

I could agree to a certain level on your first statement that Thailand has been portrayed as a hub for human trafficking, mostly by the media and NGO's.

However, it is your second statement that would give me concern. If my reading is correct, you are stating that on a global picture, most of the counterfeit documents presented to airlines and immigration have a connection with Thailand?

I would be extremely interested in the source of that information.

Just as an aside, I don't think there is too much counterfeiting of travel documents done by Thais in Thailand. It is a very complicated process that requires the correct paper, stamps, copying software and machinery, etc. IMHO, you shouldn't credit people with something that is only here-say..................

[wilcopops]

This sort of story illustrates that the effects of corruption in Thailand do not end at its borders.

lax incompetent and corrupt law enforcement has ramifications far beyond the country itself.

[mojorison]

Steve Vickers said on a Channel News Asia interview that Bangkok is the hub of stolen passports (and other documents) in Asia. So let's just say that Thailand is the hub of stolen passports.

The passports are stolen all over Thailand, and obiously more frequently in tourist venues where tourists willingly give up their passports when renting a motorbike, or jets ski. They are also stolen off tourists at hotels by cleaning staff. The passports then are sold to dealers in Bangkok where they are in turn sold on.

With the bit of bad press Thailand is getting from this passport issue, will be curious if

there is some sort of instant response perhaps in the form of not allowing a rental

company to keep your passport, making it a serious crime to steal a passport, and

eliminating the stupid law requiring you to carry around your passport. Be forced to

carry your passport with you in the land of pickpockets is inviting a problem...

This^^^. Another form of deposit must be arranged. Wow... even some insurance might do the trick... holy smoke! Insurance! Now there is an idea. Anyway, technically it is not your passport. It belongs to the government, and they let you use it to travel. So it is a much bigger issue than some dirt bags keeping and extorting money out of you by threatening to keep you passport. They have got zero right to do it, and it probably has to stop. The other classic is the visa run... WITHOUT you! Sweet mother of god. You are separated from your passport, in a foreign land without documents, while your passport is ostensibly in another country. Good one. Thai police - lift your game. You are embarrassing yourselves.

[iainiain101]

_{Interesting questions would be what visas for Thailand did these two passports that were stolen have???}

_{Have they been used to do frrequent border runs to keep them up to date as one was stolen over 2 years ago, or did the person leaving Tailand turn up at the airport and pay a 2 year overstay without the validity of the passport even being checked???}

_{In theory the Thai Immigration system should have a very good idea of the movement, or not of these passports since their theft.}

Edited March 10, 2014 by iainiain101

[jacko45k]

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

Because isn't that where the two stolen passports were stolen??????

Sort of puts the focus there.........

Phuket bashing stems from things that actually happen there.

[mojorison]

_{Interesting questions would be what visas for Thailand did these two passports that were stolen have???}

_{Have they been used to do frrequent border runs to keep them up to date as one was stolen over 2 years ago, or did the person leaving Tailand turn up at the airport and pay a 2 year overstay without the validity of the passport even being checked???}

_{In theory the Thai Immigration system should have a very good idea of the movement, or not of these passports since their theft.}

I'd be grilling the legitimate owners over this. Don't leave town.

[Hellhound66]

Thailand is inundated with criminal elements living here under false pretenses, many of whom, one would assume travel on fake passports. If Thailand actually started using the Interpol database I am sure that there would be a few hundred (maybe thousand) stolen passports pop up on their radar. But then they would be going after people they are happily doing business with.

Two people traveling on fake passports in this region, particularly originating from the wild west frontier that is Thailand, I would hazard a guess is quite common and more than likely has no link to terrorism. Let's see what the CCTV footage looks like of the two criminals boarding the plane.

[wernerkl]

When is the last time any good news at all came out of Thailand?

Bad news is good news!

[belg]

possible that some tourists sell their passport to raise some holliday cash for big bucks ?

car rental that stole his passport? why would you hand over your passport anyway , aka not legal

[gerry123]

When is the last time any good news at all came out of Thailand?

when they allowed foreigner into the 30 bht medical scheme

[chrisinth]

As my thoughts go out to the families of all those souls that are currently missing, the issues with stolen passports being used on flights, or rather the ability of stolen passports being able to be used on flights in this day and age, post 9/11, raises so many flags.

In the article, "Thai police target 'passport ring' in vanished flight probe" in post #85 in this thread (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/709672-missing-plane-highlights-phukets-stolen-passport-trade/?p=7542481) Interpol have confirmed that both stolen passports were entered into the SLTD (Stolen & Lost Travel Documents) database after their theft and also confirmed that neither passport number had been checked by any country since the addition to the base.

My question would have to be what is the purpose of the SLTD database if it is not being used at the immigration gateways, or why it isn't functioning (indicating/flagging) suspect travel documents before the exit stamp from any country in question is put into the passport?

It also has me wondering, with over 40 million entries in the SLTD whether renewed passport numbers are put on this list. I am from the UK and when I renew a passport it states that when the documents are received and the process started, the passport is automatically cancelled until the new passport has been issued and can't be used as a travel document.

I wonder if that is actually true? IMHO, stand by for prolonged immigration queues, both in and out of Thailand for the foreseeable future.

[tezzainoz]

Okay it seems your all barking up the wrong tree

Just released the passports where used when booking flights............ wait for it

In Pattaya not Phukett

[animatic]

It's pretty clear the international AIRLINES should require ALL countries they fly into

to have a 'direct automatic check of passport names with the Interpol Data stolen passport base'

as S.O.P.

It wouldn't be hard, a link to interpol data base on check in or booking system computers.

if the name is flagged on a booking computer, someone can be detailed to check them hands on.

If it is at a check in counter for a same day purchase, they can paste the name into the Interpole link

and see if it spits out a match. These guys should NEVER have been on this flight and only

a collapse of the system or a ignoring of the system is responsible for this.

Really each airlines central booking system should be updating daily to the interpol data base

automatically and flagging name matches without hands on from check in staff.

This would prevent, names and itineraries from being logged in an international central data base,

but allow names to be flagged locally.

International flights may be under a set of group rules and each country may have it's laws,

but if the airlines say we don't fly here unless you are checking, then the countries will get behind it.

It benefits the airlines because they lose money big time on every flight down and on every

incident reported of lapsed security such as this one, terrorism in play or not.

Edited March 10, 2014 by animatic

[rhodie]

possible that some tourists sell their passport to raise some holliday cash for big bucks ?

car rental that stole his passport? why would you hand over your passport anyway , aka not legal

Very difficult to rent any vehicle in Thailand without leaving your passport as security.

[fvw53]

possible that some tourists sell their passport to raise some holiday cash for big bucks ?

Yes indeed very much possible....hippie tourists in need of cash to buy hashish did it in Pakistan during the period I lived there 1969 - 1972

Another question : the who stolen passport belonged to an Austrian and an Italian with caucasian looks ...indeed one cannot image an Asian person with the looks of Bruce Lee travelling with a passport under the name of Arnold Schwarzenegger without raising eyebrows at immigration.

A good guess is that those passports were used by caucasian illegal immigrants from non EU member states whose real nationalities or criminal background would not allow them to enter the EU.

[PepperMe]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Quote

Quote

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

Thailand has always been know for being a hub for human trafficking. Wheither it's Phuket or Chang Mai, it's irrelevant. Most of the counterfeit documents presented to airlines and immigration inspectors have had some connection with Thailand.

I could agree to a certain level on your first statement that Thailand has been portrayed as a hub for human trafficking, mostly by the media and NGO's.

However, it is your second statement that would give me concern. If my reading is correct, you are stating that on a global picture, most of the counterfeit documents presented to airlines and immigration have a connection with Thailand?

I would be extremely interested in the source of that information.

Just as an aside, I don't think there is too much counterfeiting of travel documents done by Thais in Thailand. It is a very complicated process that requires the correct paper, stamps, copying software and machinery, etc. IMHO, you shouldn't credit people with something that is only here-say..................

Well I suggest you go and watch the youtube video that actually fingers Bangkok as the hub of counterfeit documents including passports, US driving licenses and just about anything else you care to name.

These are pretty much openly traded in the backstreets and the police do not clamp down on it, because they are only interested in clamping down of infringement of their own trademark laws, and have no concern for the rest.

TIT, They are only interested in looking after their own industries and **** the rest attitude.

Now they are being exposed and the Thai government are going to look even more dubious than they already do, as being completely ineffective as well as the police that they control.

You can probably find the fake document center next to the child porn DVD center that police casually allow on the streets of BKK that would raise a lot of eyebrows across the world, but hey.... TIT.

Edited March 10, 2014 by metisdead
Profanity

[EyesWideOpen]

Okay it seems your all barking up the wrong tree

Just released the passports where used when booking flights............ wait for it

In Pattaya not Phukett

Wait for what ??? The issue is where the passports were stolen, not where they

were used to buy a ticket. Unless..........wait for it....... the Phuket mafia and

the Pattaya mafia have linked up !!! :-)

[rhodie]

_{Interesting questions would be what visas for Thailand did these two passports that were stolen have???}

_{Have they been used to do frrequent border runs to keep them up to date as one was stolen over 2 years ago, or did the person leaving Tailand turn up at the airport and pay a 2 year overstay without the validity of the passport even being checked???}

_{In theory the Thai Immigration system should have a very good idea of the movement, or not of these passports since their theft.}

I'd be grilling the legitimate owners over this. Don't leave town.

It will be interesting. I don't think you can enter Malaysia on 2 passports( leave a country on one and change to another when entering ) so they would want to have seen the entry stamp into Malaysia in the passport. Means it should have to have been used legitimately to exit Thailand.

[timewilltell]

possible that some tourists sell their passport to raise some holliday cash for big bucks ?

car rental that stole his passport? why would you hand over your passport anyway , aka not legal

Very difficult to rent any vehicle in Thailand without leaving your passport as security.

Not so if you rent from a reputable company - they will want a copy and sometimes just take a picture of it. Never a need to leave your passport with them. If they ask for it then decline and find another vendor.

[kriswillems]

last time on my return flight BKK&gt;AMS&gt;BKK (so return to BKK from Amsterdam) by boarding i asked the KLM stewardess "you do not check passport or visa anymore ? she answerd me that checkin did that already ..... my answer and situation ; i did checkin online and did automatic bagage deposit ( boarding print machine )and allowed so to go direct to gate ..... nobody saw my passport or visa , only she checked my boarding pass ....she was surprised and look worried and go ask a higher one about it ...

How can you go to the gate without passing immigration?

After you deposited your bags in the automatic baggage deposit machines, you need to pass immigration before you can reach the gate.

The automatic baggage deposit machines are near the check-in desks. If your visa would needs to be checked (you want to stay longer than 30 days), I think somebody would come to do that.

Same when you enter the Netherlands.

They used to have automatic immigration ports, where you have to scan your passport yourself. What you don't see in the guy behind the computer screen in another room that compared the photo of the camera nearby with the photo in your passport. He'll not push the button to let you pass if they don't look the same.

Edited March 10, 2014 by kriswillems

[BigC]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

another reason to not leave a passport as deposit with a car rental company.

cannot believe they are not suspects this is always my biggest concern when depositing my passport