Friend paranoid on Ya Ice, completely messes up his head

[wump]

I have a friend who visited Pattaya for a couple of months. After some time he started buying Ya Ice from the ladyboys on the beach and took them home to smoke it (he doesn't even like ladyboys). He got scared of them when they started calling him lots of times (he wouldn't pick up the phone). Then he hears people in the corridors and thinks it is "Thais waiting to bash him up". He didn't provide a reason so l laughed it off. Then he sees people trying to turn his doorknob and pushes a chair against the door. He sees people blowing "poisonous smoke" in his room through the door.

The ladies he invites over "put drugs in all his drinks" so he leaves every drink in his rooms unfinished. He thinks they poison his drinking ice and he starts asking questions like "Do ice cubes normally make cracking sounds?"

He would see people in front of his hotel "waiting for him" or "waiting to break in his room".

He got all his suspicions confirmed when some angry ladyboy made a scene while he wasn't there and reception had to call police to have her removed. Apparently she just wanted her stuff back.

Well that was just the beginning and it was always fun to go out with him, there was a bit of paranoia and nonsense but you could deal with it. Then it all went very bad. Three days before his flight he wanted to do "one more session". The first day was ok, on the second day he started saying things like "I can't keep parking there, they are going to get my bike" (after having parked in the spot for 2 hours). "I can't drive along this soi, and also not that soi" and so on.

On the day of his flight he asked the motorbike rental guy if he was going to bring him to the bus station. He reluctantly agreed. Upon arriving at the shop later when returning the bike, the rental guy expressed his discomfort in doing the bus station run and also questioned the sanity of my friend "Why does he call me at 3 AM asking for the number of police?". Anyway, I agreed that I take him to the bus station 2 hours later, right on time for bus to the flight.

We had a beer with another buddy of mine. When it was time to go, I said I just drive my other mate round the block to bring him home and also have a piss. My Ice friend made a scene that it is time to go but I said I be back in 2 mins, just wait.

Back there at the beer place, of course my friend was gone and the lady from the place indicated my friend had left with a moto taxi. I went to the bus station to say goodbye, was there 20 minutes early but my friend wouldn't come. I stayed till the last bus left. One hour later I went back home and see my friend online. I'm asking: "Why are you not in the bus, where are you?". "I'm at my hotel". I go there as quickly as possible and ask what the deal is.

He says, the moto taxi didn't know where the bus station is and that he walked around for a while. He said no taxi would take him to Bangkok. I tell him "You still have 3 hours till your flight, if you take a taxi NOW you can make it for sure". Then he says "How do I know where the taxi is going?" I ask him to explain and he thinks the taxi wants to rob him.

I talk to him for another 20 minutes and realize it will soon be too late so I walk on the main road, hail a taxi, ask for the fare to Suvarnabhumi, ok 1500, send the taxi to the hotel. My friend refuses to board the taxi and says to me: "How come I cannot get a taxi and you can get a taxi so quick? How do I know you are not working together with him?"

I talk another 10 minutes, realizes it is too late to make his flight, send the taxi off and go home.

The next day, me and my other friend were a bit worried he might do something stupid (he keeps talking about wanting to kill himself) so we want to go and check all places where he could be. Turns out he checked back into the hotel.

He wouldn't say his room number (see later why) and came to reception after 1 hour. He reckoned "My flight is sorted out" and how I dare to come see him. I ask "WHAT?" and he explains while shaking his hands so badly that it spills his coffe "I can see now what is happening. You have been against me all along. You tell all the people I smoke ice. You try to mess everything up". I gave him the finger and that was the last time I talked to him. I saw him wandering around in town later that day so he probably hasn't left the city. He looks like a ghost.

How can you do this to yourself? I know there is not much I can do now but I am a bit sad it had to end this way.

Sorry for wall of text.

[canman]

Ice is nasty stuff, once it gets hold of you things run downhill very quickly.

Your post should serve as a warning to those who think they can do this drug socially; it's a huge risk.

[Carib]

You tried, don't blame yourself for anything.

Your friend is not your friend anymore, but has become his own enemy and will treat others likewise. One day maybe he will 'wake up" or will be forced to.

As an outsider you cannot fight his fight, deep down he knows what is wrong, but by admitting it he would have to do something about it, and that is the difficult part. So denial will be his friend for now and paranoia his other buddy. You cannot reason with `them` , as you already know by now.

[chrisinth]

OP, like canman said earlier, Ice is nasty stuff and your post should serve as a warning.

But, i would like to add, without having a go at you, the warning should be to the user as well as the user's friends. You saw by your own admission his slide, and treated his paranoia as a joke without realizing where he would end up.

All the best to your friend and i hope he gets himself sorted out. But now more than ever, he needs the support from people that he knows to help him.

C

[wump]

I read something here:

Methamphetamine-related changes in amygdala function commonly produce an increased sense of paranoia in an affected individual. Characteristics of this emotional state center on an untrue or exaggerated belief that “someone is out to get you.” Specific threats that a paranoid person may mistakenly perceive include a belief that someone is spreading false rumors; a belief that someone intends to steal money, or damage or steal property; and a belief that someone intends to cause serious or fatal physical harm.

And according to some articles I read this stuff can make the paranoia permanent and it can last for months or even years. Even when he hadn't used it for a couple of days (4+) he would still think the things he saw/heard were real.

[BookMan]

I have seen this paranoia and in my view there is nothing you can do about it.

Same with the ice usage. Sounds like he full on into it now so nothing you will say or do can change that.

As sad and hard as it is, he is an adult and has decided to go his own way and follow the call of the drug.

Nothing you can do.

[wump]

OP, like canman said earlier, Ice is nasty stuff and your post should serve as a warning.

But, i would like to add, without having a go at you, the warning should be to the user as well as the user's friends. You saw by your own admission his slide, and treated his paranoia as a joke without realizing where he would end up.

All the best to your friend and i hope he gets himself sorted out. But now more than ever, he needs the support from people that he knows to help him.

C

Well I admit I underestimated the stuff. I hear old farangs on the beach saying they take it every now and then to make sex more exciting. My friend reckoned he just needed a bit of fun and that it helps against his depression. I hear they prescribe a controlled form of it to kids with ADHD in the US so it didn't sound dangerous. He even recommend it to me to help me lose weight but I never touched it, luckily.

There is nothing I can do now, he wouldn't let me come anywhere near him and would think I am following him if me saw me anywhere. Reasoning and logical thinking have stopped completely.

[Ulysses G.]

Being paranoid about ladyboys selling crystal meth is not really all that paranoid.

[thailiketoo]

He sounds like a pretty typical Thai Visa poster. Tell him to start posting in the General Forum threads like, Why I'm leaving Thailand, Do you have any lady boy friends or I became tired of my daily ya ice routine. Maybe finding so many like souls would help him.

[Nautilus05]

Does he maybe have family you can call or something, that can help persuade him to get back home? From there, maybe a little rehab or something?

If he's as bad as you say, you can't really let someone like that wander the streets themselves -- he's probably going to end up either dead or in jail.

[wym]

why on earth would you stick your neck out to try to help him?

maybe if my brother

maybe

[Nautilus05]

why on earth would you stick your neck out to try to help him?

maybe if my brother

maybe

Because it's the right thing to do, and it sounds like a month ago he was a pretty sane and rational person. I'm sure at least his family would like to know, if he has any.

[wym]

Sure call his family, but I was responding to this:

If he's as bad as you say, you can't really let someone like that wander the streets themselves -- he's probably going to end up either dead or in jail.

I have a lot of very direct experience with dealing with addicts, and he's going to have to want to get help before anyone can do anything for him.

Jail may well be helpful in making him realize, and allowing him to get at least basic medical attention while detoxing.

[BookMan]

Sure call his family, but I was responding to this:

If he's as bad as you say, you can't really let someone like that wander the streets themselves -- he's probably going to end up either dead or in jail.

I have a lot of very direct experience with dealing with addicts, and he's going to have to want to get help before anyone can do anything for him.

Jail may well be helpful in making him realize, and allowing him to get at least basic medical attention while detoxing.

It is good to want to help people nautilus, but when drugs are involved different rules need to apply.

[BookMan]

He sounds like a pretty typical Thai Visa poster. Tell him to start posting in the General Forum threads like, Why I'm leaving Thailand, Do you have any lady boy friends or I became tired of my daily ya ice routine. Maybe finding so many like souls would help him.

Are you speaking from personal experience as a drug addict or ex-drug addict thailiketoo?

[wump]

I don't know his family cause we only knew each other from some online gaming forum and we spent the most part of the last 3 months hanging out together. The way he acts, I think the only thing that would be able to "help" him now is a couple of weeks in the monkey house, maybe at some point he will realise? Judging by what he is saying he will not listen to any outside people. He does have a rather bad relationship with his whole family, money issues.

So you saying "you cannot let him walk the streets"... what would you do then?

[HooHaa]

sadly the guy sounds like a write off. pretty hard to help someone who is paranoid especially if you dont have a long standing relationship.

personally i would have given him a wide berth once i discovered that he had become a dedicated tweeker. I have seen it too many times in thailand with yabaa, meth is even worse.

what ever happened to good old cocaine?

[Nautilus05]

I don't know his family cause we only knew each other from some online gaming forum and we spent the most part of the last 3 months hanging out together.

Do you know his nationality, last name, maybe even what city he's from back home? Maybe have his Facebook, LinkedIn, Google+ account, or anything of the like? If so, probably wouldn't be overly difficult to track his siblings / parents down. If you need help, let me know.

The way he acts, I think the only thing that would be able to "help" him now is a couple of weeks in the monkey house, maybe at some point he will realise?

Don't be dumb, this is Thailand. He's not going to get a "couple weeks". He'll get like 3 - 5 years, and that's if he doesn't irritate the wrong person, and end up dead first.

So you saying "you cannot let him walk the streets"... what would you do then?

According to you, he was a sane and rational person about a month ago? So it's not like we're talking about someone who's been on the streets for years, and is so far gone, there's no helping them. It's been a whole month or so.

Search out and tell his family. I don't know what type of family he's from, but when something this serious and urgent comes up, past issues / problems tend to get temporarily forgotten all around. And maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine his family can get through to him a lot better than you can. At least to the point where he gets on a plane home.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Nautilus05

[wump]

Well I got some Google skills so I guess I could track his parents if I really wanted to but the way he speaks about them there is no way he will listen. So the effort would most likely be fruitless and them contacting him would further fuel his paranoia.

I still hope that he is going to sleep it off, from what I can tell until yesterday (when I saw him last) he hadn't slept in 4 days so he is going to have that 36 hour nap at some point. Maybe his mind will be more clear after.

The penalty for using ya ice seems to be 1 month with bribing the police and 2 months without it. That's for Thai people, I don't know about farangs.

He is from a Western country so the embassy would always give him a loan for a return flight.

Edited March 13, 2014 by MaikB84

[cocopops]

Well I got some Google skills so I guess I could track his parents if I really wanted to but the way he speaks about them there is no way he will listen. So the effort would most likely be fruitless and them contacting him would further fuel his paranoia.

Probably not. But if you can you should do it anyway. Consider it from their point of view - if they had all the facts they would surely wish to be contacted. Perhaps they know of somebody that your friend might listen to.

Addictions are strange things. Changing a subjects environment can sometimes make an astonishing difference. Put him back in England or wherever he is from and you may well be surprised how quickly he recovers. Or not, of course. But if he was a friend of mine, and I really did care, I'd be thinking that his chances of recovering and getting on with life would increase dramatically if he could be convinced to get on the plane.

Good luck.

Edited March 13, 2014 by cocopops

[johnnynmonic]

He wouldn't say his room number (see later why) and came to reception after 1 hour. He reckoned "My flight is sorted out" and how I dare to come see him. I ask "WHAT?" and he explains while shaking his hands so badly that it spills his coffe "I can see now what is happening. You have been against me all along. You tell all the people I smoke ice.

The irony is, now you HAVE.

Sorry to hear about your friend. Hope he gets it together. If you were good friends before, you might get through to him on a good day. I had a few friends go through it, and most of them made it out with their minds relatively intact. Though the post above about the persistence of the paranoia lasting long after they get off the dope is true. Not that they're still paranoid, but that much of the things they came to believe seemed so real on the drug, that it takes a good stretch clean before they can see how deeply self-deceived they were.

[anthobkk]

4 years ago I was renting a room in a high rise condominium in Pinklao. I was smoking a cigarette on my balcony and then realized a lot of smoke coming from the balcony below.

I rushed to the apartment, knocked the door and heard a guy screaming like hell. I told him many times to open and after 10 minutes he did it.

I've never seen a room like that in my life, he was burning his furniture’s on his balcony, he had drawn some kind of pictures with his blood on the wall, he ripped off all the electric wires, tighten them together and the place looked like a giant spider web, he was naked and saying that we had to be careful of the helicopters which were trying to go inside his room.

I stopped the fire, gave him some clothes, checked where all that blood came from (actually it was not that much but he had spread it everywhere) and gave him water.

After an hour he was able to tell me that he took ice 3 days before and his life was a nightmare since then.

I couldn't do much, but I just took his knifes, lighters put him in his bed and closed the door. I was so scared that someone else might have seen the smoke and called the police, but nothing happened.

I met him about 2 weeks after that, he did recognized me and thanks me for what I did. But then I never saw him anymore, he just disappeared without taking his stuff from his room.

Before I didn’t know about Ice much, but since I met this guy I can see that this drug is terrible and makes you more than crazy (if you compare with alcohol/cannabis/cocaine). I don’t really know what to do in that case but I just wanted to avoid the police for him. I don’t think people can do more since they are really not in a normal state of mind

Edited March 13, 2014 by anthobkk

[Doc 69]

Are there Narcotics Anonymous/Alcoholics Anonymous meetings in the area?

[Ulic]

Dude, you have done your bit and tried to help. Time to cut the guy loose and give him a wide berth.

It is not going to end well for the guy. You don't want to be around as he self destructs.

[Sheryl]

Are there Narcotics Anonymous/Alcoholics Anonymous meetings in the area?

Yes. http://www.na-thailand.org/meetings.html

But sounds like this person has not yet hit bottom.

Agree with those who suggest informing his family if possible and otherwise stepping back. Nothing can be done until he is ready to seek help.

[Ulysses G.]

Before I didnt know about Ice much, but since I met this guy I can see that this drug is terrible and makes you more than crazy

It only makes one crazy, if you don't sleep. It is bad stuff, but not nearly as bad, if the user sleeps a few hours every day or two. They will probably have to take a sleeping pill of some sort to do so.

[bbbbooboo]

I guess no one forces this crap down his throat, so at the end of the day he going to fark himself up. Why would anyone care?

[Donnie Brasco]

I had an American acquaintance in my old apartment building. His stated purpose for coming to Thailand from an English teaching job in Korea was to go through as many Thai women as possible without paying for it.

He was tall, had that Ananda Everingham wispy facial hair thing going and absolutely NO Thai language skills. He had hooked up with a freelance journalist here who had advised him that the better, hotter wealthier women here were to be had in the Ekamai and Thonglor bars and clubs. He was also no stranger to the Langsuan clubs and the older jazz clubs in The Lumpini area.

He soon snagged himself an editor's job at one of the large financial institutions and spent all his extra-curricular time in the bars. Determined to do it on looks alone, he shamelessly insinuated himself into Bangkok's cocaine set. He stated to me directly that it was his plan that inside of two years he would have himself a rich young "hi-so" wife.

I had little in common with this guy and found him to be, in a word, narcissistic. Extremely narcissistic (in two words)

I was content to see him around when I'd drop into these clubs. He was always tweeking. And it wasn't a coke-tweek it was a crystal meth tweek.

Turned out that in order to fake his way through this fairly sophomoric big-city, high-end, coke crowd he'd cracked he'd get a serious meth buzz on first prior to leaving his apartment.

One night he came pounding on my door in an extremely agitated state. He'd been threatened with a gun by close gangster friends of a minor actress's husband. He begged me to shelter him. Even to change apartments with him for a few days. When he realized just how crazy THAT sounded, he pulled out his pipe and started to fire up.

I through him out.

He came by a month later insisting that his enemies had hidden a corpse in his ceiling. He's hallucinated a huge brown stain in the ceiling and the smell of a rotting body. He insisted that the that body was rotting away in his ceiling was a guy he'd shot in self-defence. It wasn't until I had pushed him out of my condo and dragged him back to HIS and demonstrated to him that he was hallucinating that he calmed down.

This is what they call drug-induced psychosis. It took three hours to calm him down.

Bumped into him a few years later in a high-end food shop in the Thonglor area. He had indeed managed to impregnate a "hi-so" GIRL who'd become absolutely fascinated with him. Her father had put him in a clinic and he'd cleaned up.

Nobody in this story is without money.

Your buddy is a meth head.

Drop him.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[Windynoi]

Before I didnt know about Ice much, but since I met this guy I can see that this drug is terrible and makes you more than crazy

It only makes one crazy, if you don't sleep. It is bad stuff, but not nearly as bad, if the user sleeps a few hours every day or two. They will probably have to take a sleeping pill of some sort to do so.

Do you know this from experience. From what I have seen, I think it would take more than a sleeping pill for someone who has used to get some sleep.

[Ricky from Brisbane]

Your mate i sjust enjoying himself and having fun or anyway thats how he sees it. I have seen a lot of druggies and now we have the ice addicts and they look even worse than the heroin ones.

Anyway it might not be your cup of tea and it certainly aint mine but your friend can decide himself how he wants to live cos it is his life after all and you are not his keeper