Foreign groups cool as loan bill derails

[webfact]

2-TRILLION
Foreign groups cool as loan bill derails
Erich Parpart,
Somluck Srimalee
The Nation


Although, the 2-trillion bath has to suspend but foreing business respresentatives believed that the country's infrastructure projects will go on under the normal budget system.

BANGKOK: -- Foreign business representatives in Thailand are largely unconcerned by this week's ruling by the charter court that the government's Bt2-trillion borrowing bill for planned infrastructure projects is unconstitutional.

They believe that the investment will still go ahead but will be funded through standard budgetary procedures.

David Lyman, chairman and chief values officer of Tilleke & Gibbins and founder of the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT), said he welcomed the Constitutional Court's verdict on Wednesday and believed it would have a minimal effect on foreign investors' confidence, since they are more worried about the current political impasse. "Many people are relieved and pleased with the Constitutional Court verdict," he said. "Development of infrastructure is needed but it should be within budget, and you should not bankrupt the country by doing so."

Ferdinand Gyula von der Luehe, former vice chairman of the Thai Chamber of Commerce and current director of the Swiss-Thai Chamber of Commerce, said the verdict was a positive sign for foreign investors since its showed that the country preferred to do things with transparency.

"In the short term, the verdict might have a negative impact, since investment in infrastructure is needed for the development of the country. But it will increase investors' confidence in the long run because it implicates that the country is willing to do things on the proper track," he said.

"Transparency and scrutiny by the Parliament are needed for a project like this because it can ensure that the money is actually being use for the benefit of the country."

Stanley Kang, the current chairman of the JFCCT, said the problem of transparency was a separate issue because it still could not be guaranteed, but he believed that development of the infrastructure project should proceed as soon as possible regardless of how it is done or which government does it.

Competitiveness at risk

"I am disappointed," Kang said. "The verdict means that the country's investment in the infrastructure projects has been slowed down along with other related private investments, which have to wait and see what will happen next with the projects."

He added that the delay in the infrastructure mega-project would impair the country's competitiveness ahead of the launching of the Asean Economic Community next year.

"Even though Thailand is [ahead of] many neighbouring countries in terms of infrastructure, currently most of them are already heavily invested in it," Kang said. "If Thailand still wants to be the leader in this region when the AEC comes, the country will have to upgrade its infrastructures."

Darren Buckley, president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Thailand, said he too was disappointed that the plan to develop the country's infrastructure cannot move forward but believed that such a project, no matter how it is funded, should be subject to transparency.

"Many members of the American Chamber believe that the development of infrastructure is necessary and important for Thailand's competitiveness in the future and hope that it continues," he said.

"Such a project with a large amount of money being involved would always be subject to scrutiny, and no matter how it is being funded it should be transparent and in line with the Constitution."

Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans.

"We have to delay by two or three years our business plan to develop residential projects in the provinces that were to have the rail system [improved] by the Bt2-trillion infrastructure budget," Pruksa Real Estate president and chief executive officer Thongma Vijitpongpun said.

Opas Sripayak, managing director of LPN Development, said the company had also revised its plan to expand its investment in the provinces until the transport-infrastructure projects finally get under way.

Land prices in the provinces that have the potential to benefit from the infrastructure mega-project, which have increased by 20-30 per cent since last year, will drop when demand to buy land around the planned transit routes are delayed, said Thamrong Panyasakulwong, president of the Thai Condominium Association.


-- The Nation 2014-03-14

[virtualtraveller]

This country needs rule of law and checks and balances first, otherwise investment in infrastructure will end up like the Hopewell project, lots of debt, disappointing result. Greedy investors need to understand that. It was a landmark ruling to check rampant corruption. The most threatening thing about this was that 30% would have been skimmed off to keep Thaksin in power for decades and down a path of regrettable corruption, cronyism and political domination. No need to quote the long list of examples where leaders like this with plenty of potential were allowed to grab the money pot with both hands and use it to keep themselves in power with an increasingly incompetent govt focused more on survival than progress.

[monkeycountry]

So even the business community, those who would have benefitted the most from the loan, besides the PTP of course, thinks it was good that the loan was blocked

[Robby nz]

Some of the improvements should have already been underway, for instance the railways has said that planning and environmental and health reports had already been completed for the first phase of double tracking and all that was needed was the funding to be approved.

Had this been allowed for within the budget as it should have then this work would already have started.

However PT set all their hopes on getting the 2.2 trillion and with the situation we now have there is no money there and work will be held up until such time as a Govt can be installed and a budget approved.

Shows that the rice farmers are not the only ones who will suffer through poor planning.

[gabruce]

This country needs rule of law and checks and balances first, otherwise investment in infrastructure will end up like the Hopewell project, lots of debt, disappointing result. Greedy investors need to understand that. It was a landmark ruling to check rampant corruption. The most threatening thing about this was that 30% would have been skimmed off to keep Thaksin in power for decades and down a path of regrettable corruption, cronyism and political domination. No need to quote the long list of examples where leaders like this with plenty of potential were allowed to grab the money pot with both hands and use it to keep themselves in power with an increasingly incompetent govt focused more on survival than progress.

I think you are optimistic. I believe the standard rate for large projects is 30%. The size of this one would probably lead to 50% or more. It's such a long term project with minimal transparency that much or all of it would have disappeared early on, before the current government left power. Of course now, and in the future, with the debits caused by the rice scheme/scam, projects such as this may be delayed longer while the country and it's finances recover. Some planning ahead of funding the project is definitely a good idea, more than just saying "let's have a high speed train so we can ship flowers" (by the way I think they should scrap the high speed train and just stick to double-tracking and modernizing the rail system so it can operate safely and reliably).

[rubl]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

[fab4]

So even the business community, those who would have benefitted the most from the loan, besides the PTP of course, thinks it was good that the loan was blocked

Well two of them anyway. Did you even read the OP?

[fab4]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

There was plenty of supposition about alleged sexual activity at the Four Seasons by dem MP's on blue sky TV - we didn't get a explanation for that slander either, did we?

[GuestHouse]

Perhaps My Lyman could be pressed for an opinion on what impact the Hopewell ruling is having on 'Foreign Investor Confidence".

[rubl]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

There was plenty of supposition about alleged sexual activity at the Four Seasons by dem MP's on blue sky TV - we didn't get a explanation for that slander either, did we?

Well, I disagree. The explanation for the alleged slander was the total lack of transparency by then PM Yingluck, her Finance Minister, her government spokesperson and others. The meeting didn't exist, was nothing, till finally important enough for her to skip parliament that day and just sit and listen to high-level business people all working in property development.

BTW no case of slander was raised by anyone, so no slander was 'felt'.

PS the whistle blower has been murdered already. Of course it was his driver, police told us he confessed.

Edited March 14, 2014 by rubl

[fab4]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

There was plenty of supposition about alleged sexual activity at the Four Seasons by dem MP's on blue sky TV - we didn't get a explanation for that slander either, did we?

Well, I disagree. The explanation for the alleged slander was the total lack of transparency by then PM Yingluck, her Finance Minister, her government spokesperson and others. The meeting didn't exist, was nothing, till finally important enough for her to skip parliament that day and just sit and listen to high-level business people all working in property development.

BTW no case of slander was raised by anyone, so no slander was 'felt'.

PS the whistle blower has been murdered already. Of course it was his driver, police told us he confessed.

Well of course you would, you probably believe that is normal behavior for dem mp's.

[rubl]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

There was plenty of supposition about alleged sexual activity at the Four Seasons by dem MP's on blue sky TV - we didn't get a explanation for that slander either, did we?

Well, I disagree. The explanation for the alleged slander was the total lack of transparency by then PM Yingluck, her Finance Minister, her government spokesperson and others. The meeting didn't exist, was nothing, till finally important enough for her to skip parliament that day and just sit and listen to high-level business people all working in property development.

BTW no case of slander was raised by anyone, so no slander was 'felt'.

PS the whistle blower has been murdered already. Of course it was his driver, police told us he confessed.

Well of course you would, you probably believe that is normal behavior for dem mp's.

The possibly and alleged improper conduct came first from Ekkayuth (or however you write that name). The standard denial and obfuscation by then PM Yingluck made is easy for political opponents and lots of other people to make fun of her 'non-existing' meeting.

Anyway, we never got a good explanation what the business talk was about, even though both PM and MoF were present with parliament having session that day. Democratic transparency any one?

[Thai at Heart]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

[Jonmarleesco]

Ferdinand Gyula von der Luehe said '... the verdict ... showed that the country preferred to do things with transparency.' The country is represented by government, so a court verdict which dismisses an attempt by the past - and present caretaker - government to vastly increase Thailand's debt burden hardly reflects on the willingness of the country to do things with transparency, nor does it imply - or, as the article has it, implicate? - willingness on the part of the country to do things properly [on the proper track].

[bigbamboo]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

I imagine a lot of well connected government supporters in the property business in Isaan will be very put out but as always there's a lesson to be learned here.

In this case it's not to count your chickens before the plan to steal them has been hatched.

Edited March 14, 2014 by bigbamboo

[Thai at Heart]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

I imagine a lot of well connected government supporters in the property business in Isaan will be very put out but as always there's a lesson to be learned here.

In this case it's not to count your chickens before the plan to steal them has been hatched.

The thing is, that part of the country desperately needs reasonable rail and if it had become high speed eventually what a bonus. There is little way other than truck to get all this produce to market.

This week living in the uk, I have been in rochdale, london and Bristol for meetings. Could u imagine trying to do that in thailand?

30k of plane tickets or a car crash. They need reasonable medium speed trains and cargo traffic.

Yes there are going to be some mightily worried supporters up country. They bet a lot on this. Will the chinese still get their freight line?

[rubl]

Well of course you would, you probably believe that is normal behavior for dem mp's.

The possibly and alleged improper conduct came first from Ekkayuth (or however you write that name). The standard denial and obfuscation by then PM Yingluck made is easy for political opponents and lots of other people to make fun of her 'non-existing' meeting.

Anyway, we never got a good explanation what the business talk was about, even though both PM and MoF were present with parliament having session that day. Democratic transparency any one?

Isn't this where you put on your fake mod hat and declare yourself "Off Topic" ?

So, back to the OP with "Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans." and my question you didn't like:

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

Edited March 14, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

A high-speed train will stop in as less cities as possible. Furthermore there are not too many 'big' cities in Isaan where the train would pass.

Now if the major part of the 2.2 trillion Baht bill was on speeding up double tracking from completion in 2017-2022 to much earlier than those 'wishful thinking' investments would make sense. Now I have serious doubts.

Edited March 14, 2014 by rubl

[Thai at Heart]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

A high-speed train will stop in as less cities as possible. Furthermore there are not too many 'big' cities in Isaan where the train would pass.

Now if the major part of the 2.2 trillion Baht bill was on speeding up double tracking from completion in 2017-2022 to much earlier than those 'wishful thinking' investments would make sense. Now I have serious doubts.

Well you say that. After Chiangmai, which big cities are there in Thailand?

Korat, Khon Kaen, Udon, all are resonably sized cities that were on the plan as far as I saw. The plans that I saw in the Chamber of Commerce in one of these was that there was supposed to be a 4000 rai industrial park, with container shipping for produce from and into China. Along side this, eventually, there would be the high speed stuff. So the agribusiness crops from the area, of which there are boat loads in paper, rice, sugar and the rest, would use this line to get stuiff to the port, the Chinese would use it to bring stuff in and out, and the industrial estate would use it to distribute. Add in the road expansion, and this once sleepy little place was also going become the distribution hub for Thailand for stuff into Cambodia and Laos.

Singha came years ago, but their place was to be right next to the industrial park, hence why they built the supposedly whit elephant golf course (these people aren't stupid are they), the industrial estate was to have light to medium industry and provide 10k jobs apparently. International school, new hospital and another 5 star hotel are in these plans. Condos, shoipping centres, hotels have all gone up in the last 5 years because these people were all tipped the nod that this was going to happen. What a pleasure if eventually it had meant yuou could maybe get to Bangkok in 3-4 hours by train. The planes are a horrible expense and driving is like taking your life your own hands. It would have been a MASSIVE boost for business in Isaan.

[khunken]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

A high-speed train will stop in as less cities as possible. Furthermore there are not too many 'big' cities in Isaan where the train would pass.

Now if the major part of the 2.2 trillion Baht bill was on speeding up double tracking from completion in 2017-2022 to much earlier than those 'wishful thinking' investments would make sense. Now I have serious doubts.

Well you say that. After Chiangmai, which big cities are there in Thailand?

Korat, Khon Kaen, Udon, all are resonably sized cities that were on the plan as far as I saw. The plans that I saw in the Chamber of Commerce in one of these was that there was supposed to be a 4000 rai industrial park, with container shipping for produce from and into China. Along side this, eventually, there would be the high speed stuff. So the agribusiness crops from the area, of which there are boat loads in paper, rice, sugar and the rest, would use this line to get stuiff to the port, the Chinese would use it to bring stuff in and out, and the industrial estate would use it to distribute. Add in the road expansion, and this once sleepy little place was also going become the distribution hub for Thailand for stuff into Cambodia and Laos.

Singha came years ago, but their place was to be right next to the industrial park, hence why they built the supposedly whit elephant golf course (these people aren't stupid are they), the industrial estate was to have light to medium industry and provide 10k jobs apparently. International school, new hospital and another 5 star hotel are in these plans. Condos, shoipping centres, hotels have all gone up in the last 5 years because these people were all tipped the nod that this was going to happen. What a pleasure if eventually it had meant yuou could maybe get to Bangkok in 3-4 hours by train. The planes are a horrible expense and driving is like taking your life your own hands. It would have been a MASSIVE boost for business in Isaan.

High-speed trains for shipping produce? Pie in the sky. There has not been any feasibility studies that I've seen published regarding the cost/benefits of HSR in Thailand.

The sheer size of the loan bill was an immediate red flag. In the bill there were many different projects some upgrading the current rail system (desperately needed), some upgrading roads and the HSR projects. If the PTP really wanted to benefit Thailand's infrastructure, the bill should have been split up and prioritised into what is needed now and what would be beneficial in the future.

It's the greedy attitude that has killed this bill - give us the money now and we'll use it as we think fit - with all the skimming that always goes on. Same money grabbing attitude that has virtually derailed the flood-abatement B350bn scheme.

If it had been competently handled, the current rail upgrading projects would have already started.

[Thai at Heart]

High-speed trains for shipping produce? Pie in the sky. There has not been any feasibility studies that I've seen published regarding the cost/benefits of HSR in Thailand.

The sheer size of the loan bill was an immediate red flag. In the bill there were many different projects some upgrading the current rail system (desperately needed), some upgrading roads and the HSR projects. If the PTP really wanted to benefit Thailand's infrastructure, the bill should have been split up and prioritised into what is needed now and what would be beneficial in the future.

It's the greedy attitude that has killed this bill - give us the money now and we'll use it as we think fit - with all the skimming that always goes on. Same money grabbing attitude that has virtually derailed the flood-abatement B350bn scheme.

If it had been competently handled, the current rail upgrading projects would have already started.

Read my statement. Eventually, there would be high speed stuff. Ok,a separate line. My understanding is that the entire system includes also the upgrade of the existing line to Laos to connect to the Chinese freight connection in Laos. I believe this is included in the 2.2tn. If I am incorrect, I stand corrected. The plan was initially for the high speed stuff to go only to Korat, but that the entire freight/low speed line from Bangkok to Nongkai was included in the 2.2tn also. The talked of high speed line to Nongkhai was I think for 2025 or something like that. But an upgraded freight and rail line was being touted in this bill I believe.

I am not saying whether or debating if the thing represents good value for money. Anything with a 30% skim never will. But the add on benefits and business of that freight line for Isaan that it would have brough would be enormous.

[Thai at Heart]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thailands-location-drives-transport-investment-pla-30197376.html

I believe the 2.2tn included a dual line and a high speed line to Nongkhai.

[khunken]

High-speed trains for shipping produce? Pie in the sky. There has not been any feasibility studies that I've seen published regarding the cost/benefits of HSR in Thailand.

The sheer size of the loan bill was an immediate red flag. In the bill there were many different projects some upgrading the current rail system (desperately needed), some upgrading roads and the HSR projects. If the PTP really wanted to benefit Thailand's infrastructure, the bill should have been split up and prioritised into what is needed now and what would be beneficial in the future.

It's the greedy attitude that has killed this bill - give us the money now and we'll use it as we think fit - with all the skimming that always goes on. Same money grabbing attitude that has virtually derailed the flood-abatement B350bn scheme.

If it had been competently handled, the current rail upgrading projects would have already started.

Read my statement. Eventually, there would be high speed stuff. Ok,a separate line. My understanding is that the entire system includes also the upgrade of the existing line to Laos to connect to the Chinese freight connection in Laos. I believe this is included in the 2.2tn. If I am incorrect, I stand corrected. The plan was initially for the high speed stuff to go only to Korat, but that the entire freight/low speed line from Bangkok to Nongkai was included in the 2.2tn also. The talked of high speed line to Nongkhai was I think for 2025 or something like that. But an upgraded freight and rail line was being touted in this bill I believe.

I am not saying whether or debating if the thing represents good value for money. Anything with a 30% skim never will. But the add on benefits and business of that freight line for Isaan that it would have brough would be enormous.

OK I have re-read your post and apologise about the HSR and shipping produce. Yes, the existing line to Nong Kai is supposed to be connected to a Chinese-built (not yet though) rail system across Laos. That's a very small part of upgrading the existing rail system countrywide.

The point is that HSR is possibly for the future, a decent railway system is needed now - to benefit Isan and other parts of the country. Whatever government we have next needs to get approval for the existing (already planned) rail upgrade - on it's own.

[billd766]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

A high-speed train will stop in as less cities as possible. Furthermore there are not too many 'big' cities in Isaan where the train would pass.

Now if the major part of the 2.2 trillion Baht bill was on speeding up double tracking from completion in 2017-2022 to much earlier than those 'wishful thinking' investments would make sense. Now I have serious doubts.

Well you say that. After Chiangmai, which big cities are there in Thailand?

Korat, Khon Kaen, Udon, all are resonably sized cities that were on the plan as far as I saw. The plans that I saw in the Chamber of Commerce in one of these was that there was supposed to be a 4000 rai industrial park, with container shipping for produce from and into China. Along side this, eventually, there would be the high speed stuff. So the agribusiness crops from the area, of which there are boat loads in paper, rice, sugar and the rest, would use this line to get stuiff to the port, the Chinese would use it to bring stuff in and out, and the industrial estate would use it to distribute. Add in the road expansion, and this once sleepy little place was also going become the distribution hub for Thailand for stuff into Cambodia and Laos.

Singha came years ago, but their place was to be right next to the industrial park, hence why they built the supposedly whit elephant golf course (these people aren't stupid are they), the industrial estate was to have light to medium industry and provide 10k jobs apparently. International school, new hospital and another 5 star hotel are in these plans. Condos, shoipping centres, hotels have all gone up in the last 5 years because these people were all tipped the nod that this was going to happen. What a pleasure if eventually it had meant yuou could maybe get to Bangkok in 3-4 hours by train. The planes are a horrible expense and driving is like taking your life your own hands. It would have been a MASSIVE boost for business in Isaan.

I am sad for you that these plans may not come to fruition.

However you may have missed the fact that Thailand is NOT only Issan and Bangkok.

Where I live in Khampaeng Phet province for example there is NO railway line at all and If I want to go somewhere by train the nearest station is 125 km away from me at Nakhon Sawan and the alternatives are Phichit 170 km and Phisanulok 180 km away.

The biggest problem I have with ALL the Red Shirt followers is that they believe that Issan is the most important area in Thailand and that nowhere else exists.

Go to Google and look up the State Railway of Thailand to see what area of the country is covered by the network.

Edited March 15, 2014 by billd766

[Thai at Heart]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

A high-speed train will stop in as less cities as possible. Furthermore there are not too many 'big' cities in Isaan where the train would pass.

Now if the major part of the 2.2 trillion Baht bill was on speeding up double tracking from completion in 2017-2022 to much earlier than those 'wishful thinking' investments would make sense. Now I have serious doubts.

Well you say that. After Chiangmai, which big cities are there in Thailand?

Korat, Khon Kaen, Udon, all are resonably sized cities that were on the plan as far as I saw. The plans that I saw in the Chamber of Commerce in one of these was that there was supposed to be a 4000 rai industrial park, with container shipping for produce from and into China. Along side this, eventually, there would be the high speed stuff. So the agribusiness crops from the area, of which there are boat loads in paper, rice, sugar and the rest, would use this line to get stuiff to the port, the Chinese would use it to bring stuff in and out, and the industrial estate would use it to distribute. Add in the road expansion, and this once sleepy little place was also going become the distribution hub for Thailand for stuff into Cambodia and Laos.

Singha came years ago, but their place was to be right next to the industrial park, hence why they built the supposedly whit elephant golf course (these people aren't stupid are they), the industrial estate was to have light to medium industry and provide 10k jobs apparently. International school, new hospital and another 5 star hotel are in these plans. Condos, shoipping centres, hotels have all gone up in the last 5 years because these people were all tipped the nod that this was going to happen. What a pleasure if eventually it had meant yuou could maybe get to Bangkok in 3-4 hours by train. The planes are a horrible expense and driving is like taking your life your own hands. It would have been a MASSIVE boost for business in Isaan.

I am sad for you that these plans may not come to fruition.

However you may have missed the fact that Thailand is NOT only Issan and Bangkok.

Where I live in Khampaeng Phet province for example there is NO railway line at all and If I want to go somewhere by train the nearest station is 125 km away from me at Nakhon Sawan and the alternatives are Phichit 170 km and Phisanulok 180 km away.

The biggest problem I have with ALL the Red Shirt followers is that they believe that Issan is the most important area in Thailand and that nowhere else exists.

Go to Google and look up the State Railway of Thailand to see what area of the country is covered by the network.

What are u going on about.

My original point was how a lot of money had been already spent by the private sector. You are aware that bangkok already recieves 14* more public cash per head than the rest of the country.

The provinces do need rail investment, its just or which type. Bangkok has the sky train and the underground. Any more train systems u need?

Who knows , if they improved the provinces maybe half the bangkok population might go home so bangkok could become like a normal city again.

[mikemac]

Who knows , if they improved the provinces maybe half the bangkok population might go home so bangkok could become like a normal city again.

The only way you could get all the rural people to return to the home provinces is to raise the wages up there to match Bangkok. That is the only reason they are there, not for the bright lights and shopping malls.

[billd766]

"Thai property developers, meanwhile, say the court's verdict will force them to revamp some of their plans."

Which reminds me that we never really got a good explanation on the business discussion in the Four Seasons, now did we ?

This is going to have a massive impact in the big cities in isaan. Where in was, I know the investment centred around this.train system. Hotels, condos even a 4000 rai industrial estate was started. Singha even built a golf course because they knew the plan was to put in this rail expansion.

A high-speed train will stop in as less cities as possible. Furthermore there are not too many 'big' cities in Isaan where the train would pass.

Now if the major part of the 2.2 trillion Baht bill was on speeding up double tracking from completion in 2017-2022 to much earlier than those 'wishful thinking' investments would make sense. Now I have serious doubts.

Well you say that. After Chiangmai, which big cities are there in Thailand?

Korat, Khon Kaen, Udon, all are resonably sized cities that were on the plan as far as I saw. The plans that I saw in the Chamber of Commerce in one of these was that there was supposed to be a 4000 rai industrial park, with container shipping for produce from and into China. Along side this, eventually, there would be the high speed stuff. So the agribusiness crops from the area, of which there are boat loads in paper, rice, sugar and the rest, would use this line to get stuiff to the port, the Chinese would use it to bring stuff in and out, and the industrial estate would use it to distribute. Add in the road expansion, and this once sleepy little place was also going become the distribution hub for Thailand for stuff into Cambodia and Laos.

Singha came years ago, but their place was to be right next to the industrial park, hence why they built the supposedly whit elephant golf course (these people aren't stupid are they), the industrial estate was to have light to medium industry and provide 10k jobs apparently. International school, new hospital and another 5 star hotel are in these plans. Condos, shoipping centres, hotels have all gone up in the last 5 years because these people were all tipped the nod that this was going to happen. What a pleasure if eventually it had meant yuou could maybe get to Bangkok in 3-4 hours by train. The planes are a horrible expense and driving is like taking your life your own hands. It would have been a MASSIVE boost for business in Isaan.

I am sad for you that these plans may not come to fruition.

However you may have missed the fact that Thailand is NOT only Issan and Bangkok.

Where I live in Khampaeng Phet province for example there is NO railway line at all and If I want to go somewhere by train the nearest station is 125 km away from me at Nakhon Sawan and the alternatives are Phichit 170 km and Phisanulok 180 km away.

The biggest problem I have with ALL the Red Shirt followers is that they believe that Issan is the most important area in Thailand and that nowhere else exists.

Go to Google and look up the State Railway of Thailand to see what area of the country is covered by the network.

What are u going on about.

My original point was how a lot of money had been already spent by the private sector. You are aware that bangkok already recieves 14* more public cash per head than the rest of the country.

The provinces do need rail investment, its just or which type. Bangkok has the sky train and the underground. Any more train systems u need?

Who knows , if they improved the provinces maybe half the bangkok population might go home so bangkok could become like a normal city again.

But Bangkok has the largest population in Thailand and I suspect generates far more than 14% public cash than the rest of the country too.

The problem is that there just isn't enough BTS or subway coverage yet but it IS coming along. Perhaps the SRT needs more feeder lines connecting with the main lines and covering more of the country. It won't happen as there is more work in the city than the countryside.

[rubl]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thailands-location-drives-transport-investment-pla-30197376.html

I believe the 2.2tn included a dual line and a high speed line to Nongkhai.

double tracking plan as posted last year

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/556919-bangkok-chiang-mai-high-speed-rail-ready-by-2018-transport-ministry/page-10#entry5495113

[RubbaJohnny]

Although, the 2-trillion bath has to suspend but foreing

Has the spellchecker been clsed down in the final oush to illiteracy at the HUB of lazy poofreading

[Trembly]

As a Thai citizen I am very Glad to see the loan bill derailed.

They're welcome to try again, this time without the rider that would exempt the loan from scrutiny by parliament or the treasury please, thanks.