Razer64 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The black market passport trade thrives only because of idiots. You don't give your passport to anyone to hold onto for any reason. I am quite wary even of those who ask for it to copy it for legitimate reasons, let alone giving it to some schmuck at a rental agency. And if the rental agency won't have it any other way, it is time to go find another rental agency, or find some other way to get around. What, are you nuts? Collateral? How does the rental agency figure it's "collateral"? It's not worth anything to any other person, save the person who owns it. So, even if the person renting the car or motorcycle does not return with the property or damages the property in some way and the owner of the rental company has kept the passport as "collateral", what's he going to do with the passport in order to get compensated--besides sell the passport on the black market? Turn the renter in to the cops? He doesn't need the actual passport to do that. A copy will suffice. And even when returning to check in the vehicle, I also demand the copy returned to me so that it can be destroyed. This is a scam indeed. Don't be stupid. Don't hand over your passport. Even question those you are handing it to for legitimate purposes -- and even then -- don't leave without it in your possession. Also, find a very, very secure place to put your passport when it is not in use. For US Passports, I recommend spending a little extra and buying the passport card to go along with your passport. Once settled in your destination, you can lock up your passport and carry the card. It won't work for everything, but it works for most things, and if it gets lost or stolen, you still have your passport locked up in a safe location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1Str8 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Powerless. There is a solution for everything. But its always easier to find excuses. Sent from my iPad Air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronrat Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Simple. Any one leaving passport as security is denied a replacement unless US1000 is provided by the holder. Daddy, send me a 1000 because without a licence I rented a motorbike and crashed it whilst drunk . Come home moron. Just make it illegal. If youy hand it over and is stolen you are given a temporary passport to get home and barred from gaining another one for say 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humqdpf Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Aren't the passports actually the property of the governments where people come from. What right does Somchia the local vender have to take them? I know people in Thailand love to collect copies of passports, geez soon you will have to provide a copy to buy a bowl of noodles. The real question is how stupid can farangs be to hand over their passports to some 'street vendor'? As quickly as every farang stopped doing that, they would just as quickly find another way to get the deal done. Very few farangs hand over their passport to a street vendor but instead provide it as security for certain kinds of activities. Yes, you can adopt the "I am not handing my passport over to anyone" approach but it will severely curtail your activities as a visitor to Thailand. For starters, most hotels require your passport for registration - they may give it back to you within a few hours or even sooner but it is still possible to take a copy and use that as the basis for making a fake. You may never know about the fake unless the holder of the fake falls under suspicion of a crime or we get another MH370 incident. Renting a boat, jetski, diving equipment or motorbike requires handing over the passport as security. Yes, you can avoid this by not availing of these rental services and you can stay in a very basic guesthouse where they do not bother with copying passports but that would curtail your enjoyment of you holiday. The problem is that foreigners are being told not to hand over their passports as security but businesses are not willing to provide the service without the passport as security. Would we really feel secure by handing over large sums of money as security to such businesses? The trouble is that the approach makes the foreign tourist, who is often unaware of the precise legalities of the situation, take on all the risk. Only if they prosecute the businesses for insisting on passports will the practice stop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emster23 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 "Police have admitted they are powerless to prevent motorcycle and car rental operators from holding foreign tourists’ passports as collateral against potential damage to rented vehicles." Horse poop. Money is Kryptonite to Thai police. Wave some about and they are "powerless". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Bob Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 One reason why renters want to hold your passport is so you will bring the bike back and they won't have to go retrieve it from the airport parking lot. Technically not even the Thai police can take your passport, only immigration can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Aren't the passports actually the property of the governments where people come from. What right does Somchia the local vender have to take them? I know people in Thailand love to collect copies of passports, geez soon you will have to provide a copy to buy a bowl of noodles. The real question is how stupid can farangs be to hand over their passports to some 'street vendor'? As quickly as every farang stopped doing that, they would just as quickly find another way to get the deal done. Very few farangs hand over their passport to a street vendor but instead provide it as security for certain kinds of activities. Yes, you can adopt the "I am not handing my passport over to anyone" approach but it will severely curtail your activities as a visitor to Thailand. For starters, most hotels require your passport for registration - they may give it back to you within a few hours or even sooner but it is still possible to take a copy and use that as the basis for making a fake. You may never know about the fake unless the holder of the fake falls under suspicion of a crime or we get another MH370 incident. Renting a boat, jetski, diving equipment or motorbike requires handing over the passport as security. Yes, you can avoid this by not availing of these rental services and you can stay in a very basic guesthouse where they do not bother with copying passports but that would curtail your enjoyment of you holiday. The problem is that foreigners are being told not to hand over their passports as security but businesses are not willing to provide the service without the passport as security. Would we really feel secure by handing over large sums of money as security to such businesses? The trouble is that the approach makes the foreign tourist, who is often unaware of the precise legalities of the situation, take on all the risk. Only if they prosecute the businesses for insisting on passports will the practice stop. Have NEVER had to hand over the passport in a hotel or guest house for longer than it took to actually make the photocopy. Has always been 5-10mins at most, while I waited, except for once at a guest house when they told me they'd be back with it in half an hour and would bring it to my room. I told them I couldn't do that and made up a story about needing it for an appointment at the bank and to just let me know when they'd have someone available to do it right away; suddenly they were able to do it on the spot. The US passport card isn't a bad idea, but it won't have the 30d stamp info (or other) which is the main reason for LE wanting to see your passport in the first place. The laminated photocopy of the pp id page with the visa stamp on the back provides this and shouldn't cost more than a couple of hundred THB. If you're on a visa though - well, there's only two sides to the laminated wallet card... Bottom line though: really a bad idea to give up your passport as security to anybody for anything, and I'm astonished that so many people apparently do so. (And I actually think it's a bad idea to carry it on you because of the real possibility of theft. Yeah, yeah, yeah - I know, it's "the law". Let's not start again.) In Viet Nam, many places (not so much in the upscale places in the cities) will require you to hand over your passport, which will be conveyed to the local constabulary, and remain there until your day of departure. And yes, passports DO occasionally go missing there... In Thailand at least the hotel only has to make a photocopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taipan1949 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 If you can't get what you want by leaving a copy of your passport then you don't need it. Never trust anyone with your passport, it does not belong to you, at least my Canadian one tells me this. It belongs to the Government of Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomfiddler Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Anyone who leaves their passport with ANYONE as collateral needs to be certified ! A copy OK, but not the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Simple law states , you got to have driving licence valid in thailand to drive a car or motorbike, If vehicle operated by someone with DL then the vehicle can be insured So if the BIB get of their ass and start working on giving big fines on rental shops that rent out bikes to people without DL Would quickly solve the problem Just my 2 satang You are exactly correct about having a valid license. The problem is people steal the bikes/cars and relocate to another area, this is generally why the vendors ask for passports. having said that I would never, ever, hand my passport, one thing is I can't as it's not mine, it belongs to the government and secondly I'm not mad! Photo copy should suffice and if not go to another company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongfarang Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) I fail to understand how a passport is any kind of security, unless the threat is...if u dont bring the bike back we sell your passport to be used for illegal purposes. Btw brits are allowed to have two current passports Edited March 16, 2014 by tingtongfarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetleythedog Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Mai bpen arai, they are doing their best. Possibly....................personally i NEVER give my passport..............it IS against the law! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 My British passport is the property of Her Majesty's government, and I, as it's holder, am responsible for it's care. With the exception of handing it over to a consulate office for a new visa, under no circumstances does it ever leave my sight. Any fool who hands their passport to a vehicle rental business, is failing to take proper care of the passport, and should be charged for negligence, and have his/her rights to a passport relinquished. Further, if the passport is stolen under these circumstances, held fully responsible for it's loss, as well as being charged as an accessory in people trafficking. IDIOTS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongfarang Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Lived here almost 11 years now, never handed my passport over other than at immigration and would only carry my passport with me for that purpose or traveling out the country... ie on the way too the airport or on the way back or traveling by land out of the country, Onetime while trying to open a bank account close to home i managed even by only using my driving licence, oh...i have carried my passport when going to renew my driving licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biplanebluey Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Actually, the going rate is 50k for a UK passport. I know because it was offered to me while walking in Phuket Town. The market is huge. So if I am an idiot, I can sell the passport for 50k. Go to a police station, file a lost report, fly to BKK, pay 8k or so for a new one. Flight costs, food, bars, pineapples, and I still bring home 40k. 'If you were an idiot?'------------- No idiot mate-------- sounds like a good day out to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro69 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Actually, the going rate is 50k for a UK passport. I know because it was offered to me while walking in Phuket Town. The market is huge. So if I am an idiot, I can sell the passport for 50k. Go to a police station, file a lost report, fly to BKK, pay 8k or so for a new one. Flight costs, food, bars, pineapples, and I still bring home 40k. Just wondering how you'll board the plane w/o Passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillian Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 At Samui immigration office they just put the passports in a basket when cleared for the 90 day report. When I went to the desk to get my passport from the basket, nobody checked if I was taking the right one or taking two or more passports with me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biplanebluey Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 they are “powerless"… Yea,I must admit ,this bit got me flummoxed.The law is that the holder is responsible to his government for the safety of his own passport.Governments do not agree to you handing it over to some street vender,so you are breaking the law by doing so. The street vendor will not let you hire a bike if you do not hand over your passport. The police know if you are a naive first timer but will do nothing to stop this trade.WHY?---Because they are powerless. They cannot go to any vendor and tell him in future they must only ask for a copy.WHY ? Because they are powerless. If I go to the police station and complain that I do not want to hand over my passport,they will tell me there is nothing they can do WHY? Because they are powerless what a load of utter B S !!!!!!!!!! I do not know who is the worst---the street vendor or the police. I think the longer I stay away from Places like Patts and Phukey etc the happier I will be in Thailand.Come to Isaan my friends.No fighting ,no scams,just a heap of fun like it used to be,and go home with some great memories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestBitterPhuket Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Isn't it blatantly obvious that Phuket is an island inhabited by foreign criminals and run by local criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Simple law states , you got to have driving licence valid in thailand to drive a car or motorbike, If vehicle operated by someone with DL then the vehicle can be insured So if the BIB get of their ass and start working on giving big fines on rental shops that rent out bikes to people without DL Would quickly solve the problem Just my 2 satang I have operated vehicles in Thailand and shown the police nothing but my US driver's license. If what you said were true internationally, no one would be able to legally rent a vehicle anywhere other than the country in which they hold a valid license unless they possess an international license. As I understand it, most countries, including Thailand, recognize other countries' drivers' licenses for 30 days (or some limited time frame) for a temporary visitor who is properly licensed somewhere. Please enlighten me if I am wrong. I am especially concerned because for the last 47 years, without an international license, I have rented vehicles all over the world in countries for which I do not hold a license, including Thailand, and have never had a problem. Edited March 16, 2014 by smotherb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elzach Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Shocking news again coming from joke places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 “We are looking into what measures we can take, but as far as I know, there is no law in Thailand prohibiting foreigners from handing his or her own passport to another person to hold as per their own agreement.” But there is a rule requiring foreigners to carry it with them at all times. The guy needs to use his head more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeThePoster Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 All foreigners should have at least one KSR issued passport which they can use as deposit for car/bike/jetski rental. Save a lot of headaches. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeO Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Aren't the passports actually the property of the governments where people come from. What right does Somchia the local vender have to take them? I know people in Thailand love to collect copies of passports, geez soon you will have to provide a copy to buy a bowl of noodles. You're absolutely right Chooka, no-one has the right to confiscate a passport unless the holder is being investigated on serious charges and a court has granted a block on the person's travel intentions, in which case, the court would be entitled to hold on to the passport, but no-one else. Somchai certainly has no right whatsoever to hold on to a passport with regard to a motorbike, or similar, rental...!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaurene Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What an absolute load of bull shit. Police cannot prevent it. Yet they say we must show our passport when asked as it is against the law not to. The governor can issue a law banning anyone apart from the police from holding someone's passport. I have rented bikes in many places in Thailand, they have asked to keep my passport but I have never handed it over all other times left my country's driving license, been ok or a copy of my passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 All foreigners should have at least one KSR issued passport which they can use as deposit for car/bike/jetski rental. Save a lot of headaches. 'Wonder how many people actually buy these to use checking into hotels not under their real name. 'Also wonder if these KSR fakes include an entry stamp & stamped departure card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSabai Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Gotta laugh at all of the "there oughtta be a law!" posters. Their countries have truly and properly indoctrinated them well. Westerners are now 'trained' that there's no longer any need to think, use common sense, or take personal responsibility for anything. Their nanny governments will tell them what to do and what not do, and simply pass more and more and more laws to 'protect' them instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Glad that farangland news is telling the story about the LOS dodgy passport trade and leaving passports at rental shops. To me it seems so easy for LOS to implement mega fines or imprisonment for relieving someone of their passport when the passport doesn't even belong to the farang, it belongs to his/her government.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomyumchai Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 has any of the "NEVER LEAVE YOUR PASSPORT" brigade EVER been to thailand? if you have then you must have your own transport because the bike renters take passports as a way of security against the renter deciding to ride off to the next destination, which happened a few times in the past and like most things in thailand got told as fokelore to every other bike renter across the kingdom. their way of thinking is "he cannot leave thailand if no have passport", and its not too difficult to suss this out. if the bike goes missing they make a few phonecalls. you just ask a few bike renters why they take passports and they will usually come out wth that answer. "this my passport, you cant take it"........ "ok mister, this my bike, you cant take it."...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 has any of the "NEVER LEAVE YOUR PASSPORT" brigade EVER been to thailand? if you have then you must have your own transport because the bike renters take passports as a way of security against the renter deciding to ride off to the next destination, which happened a few times in the past and like most things in thailand got told as fokelore to every other bike renter across the kingdom. their way of thinking is "he cannot leave thailand if no have passport", and its not too difficult to suss this out. if the bike goes missing they make a few phonecalls. you just ask a few bike renters why they take passports and they will usually come out wth that answer. "this my passport, you cant take it"........ "ok mister, this my bike, you cant take it."...... Whenever I go somewhere I rent my transport, either bike or car. And I never had to leave my passport behind to rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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