How To Use Passport?

[Lakdee]

Hello,

I've read a lot on your site and got alot of information. Regarding to dual citizen (Thai/Swiss), as I , my Thai wife and our daughter will go to Thailand in the next few months. My wife and I will take our daughter (almost 1 yr old) to make Thai passport in BKK as we have faced some propblems about making Thai passport in Thai embassy in Swiss ( I used to post problems about making Thai passport long time ago, so I would not mention them again).

The question is, now our baby has her Swiss passport. She will leave Swiss and enter Thailand by her Swiss passport. I would show her Thai birth certificate (issued by Thai embassy in Bern) along with her Swiss passport to show that she is THAI girl anyway. As she will get her Thai passport in BKK ( I'm sure we can get thing done more easier than in Swiss!!). Question is I can show her Thai passport to leave THAILAND??? or show only Swiss Passport cause she enters Thailand by Swiss Passport and keep her new Thai passport for next trip??

What I concern is just, if it wil be problem to show Thai Passport when we leave BKK and there is no stamp on Swiss Passport when we return to Swiss.. etcc.c..

It seems confusing, but I hope you all understand what I tried to ask... Please clarify ..

Thanks all in advance..

Regards,

Lakdee

[Phil Conners]

No. You will need to get an exit stamp in the Swiss passport, otherwise she (you) will be in trouble next time she use it.

In the future, use the Swiss passport to exit/enter Europe and the Thai passport to exit/enter Thailand.

[Old Geezer]

In the future, use the Swiss passport to exit/enter Europe and the Thai passport to exit/enter Thailand.

Hello, madsere...My daughter plans a visit to LoS soon. She too has dual citizenship although he's a bit older than Lakdee's. Also she'll be coming from & returning to the USA. Does your advice above hold true for her as well???

THANX in advance for any help...O.G.

[cmsally]

For Thai-UK dual nationality we have a multi entry residency (lifelong) visa stamped in Thai passport and use it whenever travelling Thailand UK. The UK will issue these to dual Thai-Uk , it makes it easier using only Thai passport. Maybe some of the countries that recognise dual nationality issue a similar visa.

[tom yum goong]

I have dual nationality, Thai and British. I have always left and entered Thailand using my Thai passport, and entered the UK/Europe with my British. No problems so far.

When I was younger I had a lifelong visa stamped in my Thai passport. However, when I had to get a new passport, my parents never bothered to get me a new visa. I think they figured it was easier for me to use 2 passports.

[samran]

There will be a bit of running around I assume once you get to Thailand. You'll need to go to the Ampur to get an ID number and get her registered on a Tabieen baan. After that you'll be able to get the passport. Will take a couple of days.

As she entered on the swiss PP, she'll have to leave on that one too.

[Old Man River]

In the future, use the Swiss passport to exit/enter Europe and the Thai passport to exit/enter Thailand.

Hello, madsere...My daughter plans a visit to LoS soon. She too has dual citizenship although he's a bit older than Lakdee's. Also she'll be coming from & returning to the USA. Does your advice above hold true for her as well???

THANX in advance for any help...O.G.

Yes, madsere's advice covers Thai/US duals. From the US side, a US citizen must enter/exit the US using their US passport. That is the US law and there are no exceptions. For Thailand, your daughter can either enter as a US citizen (but would have to have the appropriate visa to enter), or she can use her Thai passport to enter and exit as a Thai citizen. If she enters and exists on her Thai passport, both the US and Thai passports will look like your daughter left, flew around in circles and then landed again as there won't be any entry stamps in either passport after exiting under that passport. In either case the Immigration officer will probably want to see the other passport, and once explained I am not aware of it ever being an issue with either country.

As an added bit of comfort that this is the right way to go (i.e. hasn't changed), due to an upcoming vacation in the UK, my wife called the British Embassy as to whether from the UK standpoint it was OK to exit Thailand on the Thai passport and enter the UK on the US passport. They said from the British side no problem, but as a matter of courtesy wanted to check with Thai Immigration first so as not to give the wrong advice. They called back and said Thai Immigration had suggested exactly as we have been doing it in the past.

Still, having said the above, if it is just a visit and you are uncomfortable with this, have her get the tourist visa and enter as a US citizen.

[tom yum goong]

If she enters and exists on her Thai passport, both the US and Thai passports will look like your daughter left, flew around in circles and then landed again as there won't be any entry stamps in either passport after exiting under that passport. In either case the Immigration officer will probably want to see the other passport, and once explained I am not aware of it ever being an issue with either country.

In many years of travelling in and out of Thailand, not once has the immigration officer at Don Muang asked to see my other passport, or even if i had one, despite never having any entry and exit stamps from another country.

Maybe i look like someone who likes to fly around in circles

[Lakdee]

There will be a bit of running around I assume once you get to Thailand. You'll need to go to the Ampur to get an ID number and get her registered on a Tabieen baan. After that you'll be able to get the passport. Will take a couple of days.

As she entered on the swiss PP, she'll have to leave on that one too.

hello again,

Thanks for all replies and advices (especially Samran ).. I took well notes for all..

Best regards,

Lakdee

[Old Geezer]

THANX to Old Man River & tom yum goong! The "Flying Around in Circles" syndrome was EXACTLY what had me worried. Guess if your solution works so simply, I'll recommend she give it a shot...O.G.

[samran]

If she enters and exists on her Thai passport, both the US and Thai passports will look like your daughter left, flew around in circles and then landed again as there won't be any entry stamps in either passport after exiting under that passport. In either case the Immigration officer will probably want to see the other passport, and once explained I am not aware of it ever being an issue with either country.

In many years of travelling in and out of Thailand, not once has the immigration officer at Don Muang asked to see my other passport, or even if i had one, despite never having any entry and exit stamps from another country.

Maybe i look like someone who likes to fly around in circles

My nearly full Thai passport is full of Thai exit and entry stamps, and not much else...

[Youbloodybeauty]

Hi,

I was wondering if it may be better to enter Thailand with the passport of the other country (except possibly having to pay for a visa). If you entered on the Thai passport and needed help from your other passport country's embassy for whatever reason.

Maybe rare but for example during the tsunamis, I know that embassies helped out their citizens.

YBB

[Old Man River]

If she enters and exists on her Thai passport, both the US and Thai passports will look like your daughter left, flew around in circles and then landed again as there won't be any entry stamps in either passport after exiting under that passport. In either case the Immigration officer will probably want to see the other passport, and once explained I am not aware of it ever being an issue with either country.

In many years of travelling in and out of Thailand, not once has the immigration officer at Don Muang asked to see my other passport, or even if i had one, despite never having any entry and exit stamps from another country.

Maybe i look like someone who likes to fly around in circles

Actually, we haven't been asked either, but I read it on one of the forums (perhaps this one) that people have been asked. Still, if you are travelling under two passports and someone asks, you will have both of them readily available anyway. Travelling under two passports really becomes more of a potential issue if the Thai name is different from the foreign name (i.e. wife who uses her maiden name in Thailand and married name abroad). With today's tightened security, some Thai's prefer to enter and exit Thailand using the foreign passport, of course with the appropriate Thai visa.

[Maestro]

As she entered on the swiss PP, she'll have to leave on that one too.

I was wondering about that, Samran, but I am sure you’re right: she needs an exit stamp on the same passport to disappear from the Thai radar with that passport number.

My concern was that when entering Thailand next time, with a Thai passport issued in Bangkok but without Thai exit stamp, the Thai immigration officer might raise an eyebrow but with the new biometric Thai passports now being issued in Bangkok also for Thais living abroad there should be no problem. Aside from that, her Thai PP will show her Swiss birthplace and this should be enough to explain to Thai immigration why she has no exit stamp in her Thai PP, and from that moment on she should of course always use only her Thai PP to exit and enter Thailand, and only her Thai ID or Thai PP for any business with any Thai government office or any other place in Thailand where she needs to show identification (open bank accounts; buy/sell land, car, etc.; check in at hotels; etc.)

Lakdee, do as Samran suggests and I’m sure your girl will have no problem. Switzerland has no problem with dual citizenship, and Thailand will never raise a question as long as she will, once she has her Thai PP, continue to use that in dealing with Thai authorities. Legally, a problem could theoretically arise only if she were to use her Swiss passport in Thailand after she reaches the age of 18.

--------------

Maestro

[Youbloodybeauty]

Legally, a problem could theoretically arise only if she were to use her Swiss passport in Thailand after she reaches the age of 18.--------------

Maestro

What's the problem with her using the Swiss passport when over 18????

Cheers YBB

[samran]

Legally, a problem could theoretically arise only if she were to use her Swiss passport in Thailand after she reaches the age of 18.--------------

Maestro

What's the problem with her using the Swiss passport when over 18????

Cheers YBB

Nothing at 18.

However, between 20 and 21 there is a theoretical time to choose from a Thai perspective, but there exists a massive loophole, so that if you don't make a decision during this time, then the government is powerless to follow up after that.

Chapter 2, Section 14 of the 1992 Thai nationaity act says:

Section 14. A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of his father according to the law on nationality of his father, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph 2 is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

If, after consideration of the said intention, the Minister is of opinion that there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father or a foreign nationality, he shall grant permission, except in cases where Thailand is being engaged in armed conflict, or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.

But there is no mention on what one should do after 21 years of age. So if you don't apply between 20 and 21, then NOTHING happens.

This seems to be backed up by a reply to a letter in the Phuket Mail on this issue. You can read about it here. Essentially it says the same thing I have just written.

Also, the act basically says that "if you want to keep your other citizenship, then you have to renounce the Thai citizenship". The obvious question is, if I don't renounce Thai citizenshp, what happens? The answer again is...nothing. The Thai government is powerless to revoke your foreign citizenship. That is solely a matter for the other government as to if they want you as a citizen or not, and none of the Thai governments business.

As for the subject of using a Bangkok issued Thai passport to re-enter Thailand without an exit stamp in it. Well a couple of points:

All passports are issued in Thailand anyway, but then couriered to the relevant embassy, so there is really no difference between Thai passports. My passport, from Bangkok by way of the Thai embassy in Canberra, does make a note of the fact that it has been applied for overseas, but this should not make a difference of the OP's daughter doesn't have such an observation.

There have a been a few members here how have PM'ed me in the past, a bit scared that their child would be forced to use the foreign passport to enter Thailand, rather than their Thai one. My advice, if this happens, then on seeing the immigration officials superior officer. Insist on letting your child be stamped in as a Thai national...as is their right. Do not take 'no' for an answer. The senior officer knows the rules, and will overturn the guy at the immigration desk.

I can't stress enough that issues with passport swapping is rare enough in my experience, and you are within your rights to ask that you be given leave to enter as a Thai citizen. I have only once many years ago, having made my way up to Thailand from OZ, via singapore and malaysia, been initally refused entry as a Thai, down at Pedang Besar. At that time, I had a newly minted Thai passport issued in Canberra, with no Thai exit stamp. I simply asked for the senior officer and stated my case, and I was allowed in without too much argument.

[Old Man River]

Khun Samran, with your vast experience on immigration matters it is good to hear your explanation of the over 21 loophole. Having read the Thai Nationality Act it is what my friends and I have surmised, but we weren't sure and this is not a subject that anyone wants to openly discuss with Immigration.

[Old Geezer]

Khun Samran, with your vast experience on immigration matters it is good to hear your explanation of the over 21 loophole.

Indeed Khun Samran, I must add my THANX for your enlightened explaination. My daughter is now 22, so past the "Loophole" period. I've forwarded all the pertinent posts from this thread to her. I'll keep my fingers crossed that all goes well on her trip...O.G.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Old Geezer

[Lakdee]

As she entered on the swiss PP, she'll have to leave on that one too.

I was wondering about that, Samran, but I am sure you’re right: she needs an exit stamp on the same passport to disappear from the Thai radar with that passport number.

My concern was that when entering Thailand next time, with a Thai passport issued in Bangkok but without Thai exit stamp, the Thai immigration officer might raise an eyebrow but with the new biometric Thai passports now being issued in Bangkok also for Thais living abroad there should be no problem. Aside from that, her Thai PP will show her Swiss birthplace and this should be enough to explain to Thai immigration why she has no exit stamp in her Thai PP, and from that moment on she should of course always use only her Thai PP to exit and enter Thailand, and only her Thai ID or Thai PP for any business with any Thai government office or any other place in Thailand where she needs to show identification (open bank accounts; buy/sell land, car, etc.; check in at hotels; etc.)

Lakdee, do as Samran suggests and I’m sure your girl will have no problem. Switzerland has no problem with dual citizenship, and Thailand will never raise a question as long as she will, once she has her Thai PP, continue to use that in dealing with Thai authorities. Legally, a problem could theoretically arise only if she were to use her Swiss passport in Thailand after she reaches the age of 18.

--------------

Maestro

Thanks for maestro's advices , also explanation of Thai law from Samran. I will take good note for all.. however, when my daughter turns to be 20 yrs old , perhaps law might be changed? as now she is only 11 months old.

thanks for all again.

Best regards,