Jeremy Clarkson accused of 'racism' during Top Gear series finale in Thailand

[cpofc]

Don't be ridiculous,Brits are PERFECTLY aware of this term in its racist form. to suggest that Clarkson, a writer and TV presenter wouldn't be aware of the word is just nonsense.

Don't tell us what we are aware of. I am a well educated and travelled Englishman. I have never heard of it. I have spoken to my friends at home who have watched the episode and they have never heard of it.

SDM

The fact is Clarkson knew exactly what he was saying. It wasn't 'subtle' either. It was out of order. Whether anyone cares to admit it or not.

You don't need to be a student student of Eugenics, it is easy to explain really. I served with the RN in the Far East, even in a Brit Frigate at one time (1974). Throughout history, the Navies of this world, particulary the RN are responsible for adding alot of words and slang to the language, The Brits, Australians and Kwis referred to Asians in the countries we visited or had bases in, as 'Chokey's'. But it was predominantly used to refer to the Chinese in particular.

This had nothing to do with Vietnam, Vietnam produced its own vernacular. Australians and Yanks actually used different derogatory terms. Nig Nogs, or just Nogs for Aussie Diggers, and the many common ones used by the US GIs you are more familar with. Gooks is a hangover from the Korean War. Australians never used the term Gook. When I was a kid they were Chows or Chinks.

As I have explained previously in this thread. The Movie 'The Sand Pebbles' hit Australian Cinemas in late 69 early 1970. I actually saw it for the first time whilst serving in an RAN warship in the Far East very early in 1970. Not only did it become a famous classic movie, it became a 'cult classic' in my Navy.

Due to the movies immense popularity of the day. By the mid 70s we had all but ceased referring to Asians as Chokeys and had adopted the word used by the old China Sailors of the US Navy which is used in the movie quite often. Slope Heads. The term caught on and entered the Australian mainstream. What followed after Saigon fell was that Australia was inundated with refugees from Vietnam and Cambodia, and the term Slope or Slope Head entered main stream, common everyday usage. BTW, a Brit, Sir Richard Attenborough played a major role in the movie as Frenchy Burgoine. Jake Holman's shipmate,

On our ships, NZ and Brit Ships serving in the Far East we carried the 'Unofficial' Chinese Laundry (and tailors and boot makers too) just like in the Sand Pebbles Movie, which is set 1920s China. They were known colloquially as the Chokey Laundry (men). This became the Slopehead Laundry (men) in the RAN. A few of whom I befriended over the years, So good in fact that on the 1978 Far East Deployment, at sea, The Boss Coolie', Peter Mayo used to give me his entire crew's beer issue!

Doesn't surprise me that some Brits may not be familiar with the term. I wonder what the RN Sailors call Asians these days,

The original Author of the Sand Pebbles, Richard McKenna, was a former US Navy China Gun Boat Sailor himself. Although he served at a time a fair bit later to the period he writes about. He wrote the book because he was enthralled and fascinated by the Old China Sailors he served with in the 30s. This is where the term Slope Head is to be found, repeatedly.

Slope Head is not about the slanty eyes thing either, it is about the physical, facial characteristics of the Chinese.

Slope is basically the Asian equivalent of the 'N' word. And that is why so many people are so offended by his very public use of it. Especially when he is in their country, being hosted by them and taking advantage of their hospitality. Very rude behaviour, Not what you would expect from a 'thorough English gentleman'.

You might also do well to remember that Top Gear is an international program with an international audience, not just a local Brit TV thing.

And no, I state again, I do not care for these terms and I don't use them. But I am quite well versed in them.

[Soutpeel]

So.....am I be racist if I'm playing golf with an Asian person and I say there's a big slope on the green? Do you the person would be angry?

I doubt it.

It all depends if you're simply talking about the topography of the golf green... or if you're

in fact making a racist slur as a callous racist and trying to be subtle (but unsuccessfully).

And this is the crux of this whole thread...was JC making a slur or was he infact talking about the bridge itself ?

The PC brigade insist it was a slur, but the only person who truely knows for a is JC and he is not saying,

As someone else pointed out JC is not known for being subtle in his remarks

Further what is the difference between a callous racist versus a normal racist ?..

[Soutpeel]

Fckin right you're not, I don't associate with fact-averse neophytes who defend racist slurs and accuse those who disagree with them of being disingenuous (as trolls are), as if anyone could only oppose such bone idle stupid tosh as has been spouted here as some kind of pretence. Google civil rights movement.

Maybe you should google blasphemy dear boy based on your earlier remarks

[cpofc]

So.....am I be racist if I'm playing golf with an Asian person and I say there's a big slope on the green? Do you the person would be angry?

I doubt it.

It all depends if you're simply talking about the topography of the golf green... or if you're

in fact making a racist slur as a callous racist and trying to be subtle (but unsuccessfully).

And this is the crux of this whole thread...was JC making a slur or was he infact talking about the bridge itself ?

The PC brigade insist it was a slur, but the only person who truely knows for a is JC and he is not saying,

As someone else pointed out JC is not known for being subtle in his remarks

Further what is the difference between a callous racist versus a normal racist ?..

Slur? I don't think JC used it as a deliberate slur as such. It was used for what he thought would be a humourous pun (for those in the know). Which, as it turns out, has gone over like a lead balloon.

Their backs turned to the camera, so facial expressions were hidden, think about it. The simple fact that his 'oppo' all too quickly jumped in to give a piss poor explanation about the aspect of the bridge speaks volumes to me. He knew exactly what Clarkson was on about and was hastily looking for an out. He knew what was going to happen and the internet shit storm that would follow.

Poor taste Jeremy. But then its all about ratings isn't it. Nothing like being controversial to keep those ratings up there.

and please, stop using the PC Brigade bullshit. Thats a cop out.

Edited March 19, 2014 by cpofc

[mojorison]

Don't be ridiculous,Brits are PERFECTLY aware of this term in its racist form. to suggest that Clarkson, a writer and TV presenter wouldn't be aware of the word is just nonsense.

Don't tell us what we are aware of. I am a well educated and travelled Englishman. I have never heard of it. I have spoken to my friends at home who have watched the episode and they have never heard of it.

SDM

And still ignorant. Sorry.

[ratcatcher]

Having lived and worked in Asia for 13 years, I now realise I have led a sheltered life.

I have never heard the "slope" expression used before and if some sensationalists hadn't written this drivel, I would still have been happily ignorant of it's meaning.

same, never heard of it and I doubt very much that Clarkson has either, I watched the show and didn't think of anything weird because the bridge they built did have a slope on it and the guy on the bridge looks like one of the crew

Maybe he should have said there is a lean on it.

The only "lean" on the Bridge Over the River Kwai was Sir David Lean.

Maybe he should have said there is a lean on it.

[ratcatcher]

Having lived and worked in Asia for 13 years, I now realise I have led a sheltered life.

I have never heard the "slope" expression used before and if some sensationalists hadn't written this drivel, I would still have been happily ignorant of it's meaning.

same, never heard of it and I doubt very much that Clarkson has either, I watched the show and didn't think of anything weird because the bridge they built did have a slope on it and the guy on the bridge looks like one of the crew

Maybe he should have said there is a lean on it.

Maybe he should have said there is a lean on it.

The only "lean" on the Bridge Over the River Kwai was Sir David Lean.

[SDM0712]

Don't be ridiculous,Brits are PERFECTLY aware of this term in its racist form. to suggest that Clarkson, a writer and TV presenter wouldn't be aware of the word is just nonsense.

Don't tell us what we are aware of. I am a well educated and travelled Englishman. I have never heard of it. I have spoken to my friends at home who have watched the episode and they have never heard of it.

SDM

And still ignorant. Sorry.

It is quite foolish to brand someone as ignorant for genuinely never having heard of a term. Following your intimation you must be ignorant also, unless you are knowledgable on every subject which must include every possible meaning of every word ever uttered.

Not for Mojorison, because I have nothing to say to someone who makes such a sweeping and, to quote him "ignorant" statement without basis, but today I have spoken to several people at home, who quite honestly cannot understand the fuss, and none have ever heard of this term. The guys on this forum from Australia, NZ and the US may very well doubt this, and since we supposedly have the right of free speech (as long as we don't upset anyone) you are entitled and quite welcome to your opinions. But it is a fact that over in Blighty this word is not in common use as a rascist term. In fact unlike NZ and Australia most of our racism is aimed at South Asians and Africans rather than SE Asians, which probably why it's not a common term in England. For some reason our cousins from NZ, Australia and the US here cannot accept that we do not use this word in the same way they do.

As a point of interest I met an Australian client today and I told him about the Top Gear episode. He was amazed at two things, firstly that the BBC allowed this program to be aired like this and secondly that I had never heard the term used in this way.

It's a big world and just because some peoples bastardize the meaning of some English words doesn't mean that the corrupted definitions are universally known or accepted.

SDM

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited March 19, 2014 by SDM0712

[SDM0712]

Didn't they decide that they had got the wrong river and they had actually built a bridge over the River Cock ?

SDM

[lamkhamhaeng]

Fckin right you're not, I don't associate with fact-averse neophytes who defend racist slurs and accuse those who disagree with them of being disingenuous (as trolls are), as if anyone could only oppose such bone idle stupid tosh as has been spouted here as some kind of pretence. Google civil rights movement.

Maybe you should google blasphemy dear boy based on your earlier remarks

I'm alright thanks Soutpeel, I'm quite well read as it is, and being a humanitarian atheist I couldn't give the slightest toss about blasphemy. If you assumed that my idiomatic exclamation CHRIST ALIVE had been intended to indicate that Christ was indeed literally alive, I can only... um... I can only... suggest seeking professional help?

[BradinAsia]

So.....am I be racist if I'm playing golf with an Asian person and I say there's a big slope on the green? Do you the person would be angry?

I doubt it.

It all depends if you're simply talking about the topography of the golf green... or if you're

in fact making a racist slur as a callous racist and trying to be subtle (but unsuccessfully).

And this is the crux of this whole thread...was JC making a slur or was he infact talking about the bridge itself ?

The PC brigade insist it was a slur, but the only person who truely knows for a is JC and he is not saying,

As someone else pointed out JC is not known for being subtle in his remarks

Further what is the difference between a callous racist versus a normal racist ?..

A normal racist -- an ordinary person who has grown up as a racist due to the influence of parents and peers, and has never stopped to think about how counter-intuitive and ludicrous his views are.

A callous racist -- an extremist who uses his racist views to demean various minorities, then finds he has a following. So he uses his racist views to further his own career goals, whether in politics, entertainment or the KKK.

Rush Limbaugh is a good example of the latter.

[lamkhamhaeng]

So.....am I be racist if I'm playing golf with an Asian person and I say there's a big slope on the green? Do you the person would be angry?

I doubt it.

It all depends if you're simply talking about the topography of the golf green... or if you're

in fact making a racist slur as a callous racist and trying to be subtle (but unsuccessfully).

And this is the crux of this whole thread...was JC making a slur or was he infact talking about the bridge itself ?

The PC brigade insist it was a slur, but the only person who truely knows for a is JC and he is not saying,

As someone else pointed out JC is not known for being subtle in his remarks

Further what is the difference between a callous racist versus a normal racist ?..

A normal racist -- an ordinary person who has grown up as a racist due to the influence of parents and peers, and has never stopped to think about how counter-intuitive and ludicrous his views are.

A callous racist -- an extremist who uses his racist views to demean various minorities, then finds he has a following. So he uses his racist views to further his own career goals, whether in politics, entertainment or the KKK.

Rush Limbaugh is a good example of the latter.

Watch out Brad, that was logical and humane. They won't like that.

[Bangmod]

The whole government off this country is a SLOPe, will I get sued now for telling the truth??????

[SDM0712]

These two peckerwoods epitomize the syndrome.

A two man puke fest

I'm not really sure if I've been insulted or not. I recognise most of the words, but don't really have a clue about the meaning.

SDM

Edited March 19, 2014 by SDM0712

[55Jay]

I hope JC is proud of himself. Now the real JC has been invoked on this thread. Oh Gawd. Heaven help us.

[canuckamuck]

Saw the show, it was quite good. The fact that JC peed in Richard Hammond's shower water and very nearly killed James may with a crane was to me more shocking then his little play on words on the bridge.

[Soutpeel]

Ooh well DONE sir, you've found a variant on the 'racism-against-whites-is-equal-to-racism-against-non-whites' argument which every Klan member and his son has been trotting out on here: the 'crimes-against-Christians-are-equal-to-racism' argument! Ooh, I admit it, you nailed me. You've done it. My argument has fallen apart. I don't know what to say. I apologise,

Except... wait... pieces... of argument... reforming....

Crusades. Inquisition. Paedophilia cover-ups. Still feel Christianity has any moral highground which could possibly be impinged upon?

If you do, try this: all the various Christian churches are dominated by privileged Western men. I am aware of this on account of having been raised Church of England and having been alive in the 20th and 21st centuries. The CENTRAL CHUFFING THEME here is that you deluded lot of arsewits seem to feel that bigotry is justified by the treatment you receive from other races. Except that it absolutely isn't. There are in no way equable. And repeatedly claiming so just makes you look all the more deluded, ignorant, and lost.

Also, those guilty of 'blasphemy' (made-up codswallop tosh that it is - as if a forgiving Lord would have any time for such petty and vindictive bollcks) have historically been the ones who've ended up butchered or tortured or oppressed. By the church. The opposite is true of those who have historically been guilty of racist tendencies, who any child can tell you (since they teach it schools now you know) have generally been the ones guilty of murders, enslaving communities, and committing acts of genocide.

As a final point, if as a good Christian you've been irritated by my taking the Lord's name in vain, I'll crib from Bill Hicks: forgive me.

WOW so many anger issues here...

Rather than get into slagging match here, for the record i am actually an athiest, but yet you continue possibly offend people religious beliefs and make no apology for it, therefore you are no different from the people you are accusing

So quote/paraphrase your good self....if you believe I am a racist bigot, thats your perogative, you have the right to that opinion, but all I can say is I dont give a toss either

As regards I the "forgive me" quote, I am all for forgiveness, your the one who appears not to be able to forgive.

[Donnie Brasco]

These two peckerwoods epitomize the syndrome.

A two man puke fest

I'm not really sure if I've been insulted or not. I recognise most of the words, but don't really have a clue about the meaning.

SDM

And there we have it. Thank you for illustrating my point EXACTLY.

In fewer than a couple of lines you have managed to give us an obtuse statement) which is at the same time disingenuous and exclusionary.

Perfect.

Ya see, SDM0712 most of the chuckin' and jivin' 'you lot" foist on the rest of the planet was concocted in the gloom of your own little Public Houses decades before this magnificent INTERNET resource was cobbled together.

So your posture that something is too arcane for you to comprehend, or too recherché for most people to appreciate or that it is truffled with pretentious diction or parochial slang is a LIE.

Or is this feigned thickness yet another example of British humour.

Well DO let's have Benny Hill or Mr. Pastry on here to enlighten us all then and to render the racist blabbings of these two peckerwoods into the sort of laugh-fest that'll make it all right.

BTW, I am about as NON-PC as it is possible to get.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 19, 2014 by Donnie Brasco

[Soutpeel]

plus the ludicrous assumptions by dozens that racism against whites is equable to racism against non-whites. Still defending that?

But racism is racism, if your discriminating what is and isnt racist, isn't that racist in itself. ?....can have it both ways dear boy

[Soutpeel]

Oh dear God... dear God... FOR THE LAST TIME. NO. SAYING 'JESUS CHRIST' IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING NIGGER, OR SLOPE, OR CHINK. Taking the Lord's name in vain is NOT THE SAME, on any level, as profligating racist slurs designed to dehumanise peoples who have been systematically oppressed, enslaved, beaten and murdered for literally centuries. If you can't wrap your head around that, do us all a favour and go sit quietly in a corner for a little while.

Oh, and as I said, I'm not a Christian. I only believe in forgiving people once they've apologised.

In your opinion only, peoples of that religious faith may differ in that opinion..

BTW who exactly would you like to apolgise ?......The whole white race ?... ....think your the one who should be sitting quietly in a corner, but by extension centuries ago, the Vikings invaded, opressed and enslaved the people of my ancestors, so what your saying I should be demanding an apology from all the scandanavians cos their ancestors were Vikings ? or how about an apology from the Italians when Rome invaded ?

[lamkhamhaeng]

Oh dear God... dear God... FOR THE LAST TIME. NO. SAYING 'JESUS CHRIST' IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING NIGGER, OR SLOPE, OR CHINK. Taking the Lord's name in vain is NOT THE SAME, on any level, as profligating racist slurs designed to dehumanise peoples who have been systematically oppressed, enslaved, beaten and murdered for literally centuries. If you can't wrap your head around that, do us all a favour and go sit quietly in a corner for a little while.

Oh, and as I said, I'm not a Christian. I only believe in forgiving people once they've apologised.

In your opinion only, peoples of that religious faith may differ in that opinion..

BTW who exactly would you like to apolgise ?......The whole white race ?... ....think your the one who should be sitting quietly in a corner, but by extension centuries ago, the Vikings invaded, opressed and enslaved the people of my ancestors, so what your saying I should be demanding an apology from all the scandanavians cos their ancestors were Vikings ? or how about an apology from the Italians when Rome invaded ?

Of COURSE thats my opinion, thats what a debate is, a conflagration of opinions. If you have an alternative opinion, then outline it and defend it, stop just proposing false arguments and then washing your hands of them when someone disagrees by saying 'well thats your opinion'. If you disagree, explain how. And OF COURSE I wasn't askinh for the whole white race to apologise! I'm white! I was responding to your comment suggesting I needed to forgive the idiots on this page! Seriously, you forget what you write the instant you write it don't you.

[lamkhamhaeng]

plus the ludicrous assumptions by dozens that racism against whites is equable to racism against non-whites. Still defending that?

But racism is racism, if your discriminating what is and isnt racist, isn't that racist in itself. ?....can have it both ways dear boy

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You think any racist act is equal to any other. So, for instance, you believe a Thai charging a farang more for a service is equal to the American government interning Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbour?

Here's where we get to see you actually defend one of your opinions instead of saying "thats your opinion" and washing your hands of it... unless you go off on a tangent, but you wouldnt do that would you...

Edited March 19, 2014 by bpai lamkhamhaeng mai kaab

[cpofc]

why not something on a happier note. A little bit of laughter - and inspiration. We all have to share this planet.

Ahn Do, former child refugee from war torn, communist Vietnam is today a very popular Comedian and performer in Oz. He is well known for using his personal experiences, and experiences of racism in his comedy routines.

I was there, in 1975, loitering off the Cambodian Coast, and then later in Subic Bay watching the mass exodus arrive there as 1000s of people fled Sth Vietnam. For years the refugees came.

Anh Do and his family fled to Australia as refugees in 1980. In his 2010 autobiography, The Happiest Refugee, Do tells of how his family, survived five days in a leaky fishing boat nine and a half metres long and two metres wide.

During the trip his family and the rest of the passengers were attacked by two different bands of pirates. The first group stole one out of the two engines and the second group of pirates stole the second engine, which had been broken but repaired by Anh's father using a piece of rubber from a thong. It was reported that as the second band of pirates left one of them threw a gallon of water onboard which kept all but one of the refugees alive, until they were finally rescued by a German Merchant ship. The boat was packed with 40 Vietnamese refugees fleeing across the Indian Ocean. “We were crammed in like sardines,” he said. The Happiest Refugee has won many awards, including the 2011 Australian Book of the Year, Biography of the Year and Newcomer of the Year, as well as the Indie Book of the Year Award 2011, Non-fiction Indie Book of the Year 2011, and it was shortlisted for the 2011 NSW Premier's Literary Awards, Community Relations Commission Award

Russell Crowe now wants to make a movie based on his book

Maybe JC could get him on Top Gear for a show. (if they could find an old Datsun 120Y or 180B that is) I am sure Do would hold his own against Jeremy.

[chooka]

plus the ludicrous assumptions by dozens that racism against whites is equable to racism against non-whites. Still defending that?

But racism is racism, if your discriminating what is and isnt racist, isn't that racist in itself. ?....can have it both ways dear boy

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You think any racist act is equal to any other. So, for instance, you believe a Thai charging a farang more for a service is equal to the American government interning Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbour?

Here's where we get to see you actually defend one of your opinions instead of saying "thats your opinion" and washing your hands of it... unless you go off on a tangent, but you wouldnt do that would you...

Ok I know you got my extensive P.M but now I think you are trolling. 49 posts and all on this subject and all are aggressive to every poster

[Dave 74]

27 pages.

What a marketing genius Clarkson really is.

Just like the Prescot 'One Eyed Idiot' remark. and the apology, I'm sorry for calling him one eyed, it was wrong of me.

[SDM0712]

27 pages.

What a marketing genius Clarkson really is.

Just like the Prescot 'One Eyed Idiot' remark. and the apology, I'm sorry for calling him one eyed, it was wrong of me.

In truth I have watched watched almost every episode of Top Gear and have lost count of the amount of times I have looked at the screen in disbelief telling myself that I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I still can't believe the Americans let him back in after that special !

Time for a Gin & Tonic, brilliant.

SDM

[lamkhamhaeng]

plus the ludicrous assumptions by dozens that racism against whites is equable to racism against non-whites. Still defending that?

But racism is racism, if your discriminating what is and isnt racist, isn't that racist in itself. ?....can have it both ways dear boy

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You think any racist act is equal to any other. So, for instance, you believe a Thai charging a farang more for a service is equal to the American government interning Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbour?

Here's where we get to see you actually defend one of your opinions instead of saying "thats your opinion" and washing your hands of it... unless you go off on a tangent, but you wouldnt do that would you...

Ok I know you got my extensive P.M but now I think you are trolling. 49 posts and all on this subject and all are aggressive to every poster

Actually no they're not. They're only argumentative to the people defending racists. I called BradinAsia logical and humane. Being angered by racism doesnt equate to trolling.

[lamkhamhaeng]

why not something on a happier note. A little bit of laughter - and inspiration. We all have to share this planet.

Ahn Do, former child refugee from war torn, communist Vietnam is today a very popular Comedian and performer in Oz. He is well known for using his personal experiences, and experiences of racism in his comedy routines.

I was there, in 1975, loitering off the Cambodian Coast, and then later in Subic Bay watching the mass exodus arrive there as 1000s of people fled Sth Vietnam. For years the refugees came.

Anh Do and his family fled to Australia as refugees in 1980. In his 2010 autobiography, The Happiest Refugee, Do tells of how his family, survived five days in a leaky fishing boat nine and a half metres long and two metres wide.

During the trip his family and the rest of the passengers were attacked by two different bands of pirates. The first group stole one out of the two engines and the second group of pirates stole the second engine, which had been broken but repaired by Anh's father using a piece of rubber from a thong. It was reported that as the second band of pirates left one of them threw a gallon of water onboard which kept all but one of the refugees alive, until they were finally rescued by a German Merchant ship. The boat was packed with 40 Vietnamese refugees fleeing across the Indian Ocean. We were crammed in like sardines, he said. The Happiest Refugee has won many awards, including the 2011 Australian Book of the Year, Biography of the Year and Newcomer of the Year, as well as the Indie Book of the Year Award 2011, Non-fiction Indie Book of the Year 2011, and it was shortlisted for the 2011 NSW Premier's Literary Awards, Community Relations Commission Award

Russell Crowe now wants to make a movie based on his book

Maybe JC could get him on Top Gear for a show. (if they could find an old Datsun 120Y or 180B that is) I am sure Do would hold his own against Jeremy.

What a lovely post. He sounds like a fascinating guy.

[Postmaster]

Anyone know when is it / or when was it/ to go out on TV ? Usually watch it on BBC Knowledge Channel 18 True Visions. Jeremy Clarkson :one of the few straight talking guys left on this planet. Love it.

[ALFREDO]

I not miss any opportunity to see TOP GEAR here in TH.

A storm in a water glass, that discussion!

I still wait that Piers Morgan comes as a guest to TOP GEAR.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/mar/17/mediamonkey.pressandpublishing