Clampdown coming on multiple tourist visa runs

[webfact]

Phuket:

Clampdown coming on multiple tourist visa runs


Burmese Immigration office at Victoria Point, opposite Ranong, a favourite with visa-hoppers. Photo Silke Baron

PHUKET: -- Immigration is to bring in a new rule soon aimed at discouraging repeat visa runs by visitors to Thailand who get visas on arrival and then extend their stays by doing visa runs.

Currently, visitors who come from countries on Thailand’s list of nationalities that may arrive with no visa and receive a visa on arrival can also hop out of Thailand into a neighbouring country and back, and get another 30 days. Some repeat this indefinitely.

Now, however, Immigration has announced that anyone arriving in Thailand across a land border will receive only 15 days. This will not apply to the first arrival in Thailand, whether by land or air, but will apply for subsequent arrivals by road or rail.

The number of back-to-back visa runs may also be limited.

The main aim is to discourage foreigners from staying long-term in Thailand by doing multiple back-to-back tourist visa runs.

Immigration has attempted before to discourage visa hoppers. The most recent attempt was when it was announced that no one would be able to spend more than 90 days total in Thailand on multiple visa runs. This has apparently been applied selectively, and will continue to be used this way, along with the new 15-day rule, in cases of people recognised as serial visa-hoppers.

A Phuket Immigration officer told The Phuket News they knew about the new rule, but that it is not yet being applied, and they are not sure just when it will be.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-clampdown-coming-on-multiple-tourist-visa-runs-45216.php

-- Phuket News 2014-03-18

[Rob8891]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

[JLCrab]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

As the average length of stay for the almost 20 million visitors in 2011 was (per TAT) " ... 9.64 days and an average daily spend of 4,187.12 baht (US$137) per person," the financial contribution of those who stay long-term without non-IMM visas and who might be affected by any of the above changes in regulations most likely would not cost the country a great deal of income.

Edited March 18, 2014 by JLCrab

[Hockeybik]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

[granuaile]

So does this mean, going back to 15 days after just changing it to 30?

[mahjongguy]

No, it means the report is just a rumor written by someone with no specific knowledge of past, present, or future rules.

[JLCrab]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

Per Wikipedia: "The World Tourism Organization defines tourists as people 'traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"'.

So whether for one year or otherwise a tourist has a finite period of stay else one is no longer considered by the Government of Thailand as a tourist.

[sam sen]

its not like foreigners are depriving thai's of jobs/work or abusing any benefit system... i understand they dont want the riff raff here long term but effective policing would see off these types.

[CRUNCHER]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

I think they are not trying to discourage tourists, even long term ones. Rather they are trying to discourage people from living here more or less permanently on visa runs.

The Thai Government's position has always been that there is no problem with expats living in Thailand provided that they have a visa appropriate to their stay. Nothing wrong with that. Every country is the same.

Edited March 18, 2014 by CRUNCHER

[phuketrichard]

as always, i prefer to wait an see if its enforced or forgotten about as most things are

[FiftyTwo]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

As the average length of stay for the almost 20 million visitors in 2011 was (per TAT) " ... 9.64 days and an average daily spend of 4,187.12 baht (US$137) per person," the financial contribution of those who stay long-term without non-IMM visas and who might be affected by any of the above changes in regulations most likely would not cost the country a great deal of income.

Long stay guys buy girls houses.

Let's see, 2.5Mbht house over two years = 4,000bht/day

[steelepulse]

If they get rid of all of these visa runners, tourists numbers will be down as these people are counted as a new tourist every time they come back into the country.

[cornishcarlos]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

I think they are not trying to discourage tourists, even long term ones. Rather they are trying to discourage people from living here more or less permanently on visa runs.

The Thai Government's position has always been that there is no problem with expats living in Thailand provided that they have a visa appropriate to their stay. Nothing wrong with that. Every country is the same.

Except they are making it even harder to get an appropriate visa, as evidenced by the recent clamp down on issuing Non Imm O marriage visas !!!

Every country is definitely not the same...

[BigRick]

Kind of odd they would open all the Burmese crossing points and change it back to 15days. These border crossing seem to be purely for border runs. No one is going to waste their time hitting Ban Ron for a 15 day 900bhat(Not including transportation) stamp. They need to start beating the bushes for the 50+ crowd they seem predatory(Just look at all the creepers in most touristed areas) and might as well make them pay more for the privileged of long stay.

[Huk]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

As the average length of stay for the almost 20 million visitors in 2011 was (per TAT) " ... 9.64 days and an average daily spend of 4,187.12 baht (US$137) per person," the financial contribution of those who stay long-term without non-IMM visas and who might be affected by any of the above changes in regulations most likely would not cost the country a great deal of income.

While I am sure the spend per day you quote is an accurate reflection of the official figure I don't know if that 'average' can be applied to serial visa runners. My own spend in Thailand is significantly more than double that number and I suspect the same would be true for many of those who fly in and out regularly. While not in the 'visa runner' long term category I do regularly extend my stay when here by heading out for a week then returning.

I am sure that even if the amount quoted was accurate for visa runners it does actually have a very positive impact on the economy, lifting the per capita income and providing employment. Thailand would do well to reassess their attitude toward this revenue source, perhaps noting the effect on places like Cambodia of their less restrictive visa rules.

[mahjongguy]

"effective policing" good one!

Well, yes, the cops could spend all their time chasing after miscreant foreigners but they've already got plenty of crim citizens to keep them busy. So, it's understandable that they may urge their brethren at Immigration to tighten up on border runners.

[JLCrab]

As per post #16: He is sure; apparently they are not.

[p_brownstone]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

All true of course - except that a very large majority are not Tourists - they are working illegally in Thailand, paying no Income Tax etc. etc..

It is this that the Immigration Authorities wish to clamp down on - quite understandably.

Patrick

[BigRick]

They should just set a bar say 25k baht a month spent in country for continued stay then enforce the work laws. This is mostly directed at teachers abusing the visa system. I am a professional vacationer and have spent loads of money in the almost 4 years I have been here why should I suffer for people working on tourist visas when I can show that I spend above the average middle class Thai family a month?

[CRUNCHER]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

I think they are not trying to discourage tourists, even long term ones. Rather they are trying to discourage people from living here more or less permanently on visa runs.

The Thai Government's position has always been that there is no problem with expats living in Thailand provided that they have a visa appropriate to their stay. Nothing wrong with that. Every country is the same.

Except they are making it even harder to get an appropriate visa, as evidenced by the recent clamp down on issuing Non Imm O marriage visas !!!

Every country is definitely not the same...

I agree every country has different visa rules. I do not know of any country where you can just walk in and live full time. You have to go through hoops. How many hoops and how big they will depend on each countries own circumstances.

Of couse when people bend the rules or takes advantage of loop holes you can expect a tightening of the rules. This in turn causes problems for other people. The 30 day visa exempt entry was never intended for full time living in Thailand. If a tourist wants to stay longer than 30 days there are tourist visas. Those who live here on visa runs might not be breaking the letter of the law, but they are breaking the spirit of the law.

The answer is very simple - if you cannot get a visa to live in one country go and live in another. I have often thought of going to Cambodia or Vietnam, but canot because of visa issues. So I stay in Thailand where, at my age, visa is very very easy. Of course single people under 50 will not see it that way ( I sympathise as I was in that position once), but what country can they live in without bending the rules?

[pinkpanther99]

In all seriousness a clampdown if properly enforced is a good thing. There shouldn't be a reason to do multiple tourist visa runs - if you prolong your stay in the country you are no longer a tourist - it's milking the system.

I suspect most of the people going on these visa runs are working here illegally anyway. Go and jump through all the hoops and go back and forth to the employment office with the reams and reams of paperwork and copies of passporst and marriage certificates, kids birth certificates and everything else like the rest of us did to be able to work and stay here legally.

[Hockeybik]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

Per Wikipedia: "The World Tourism Organization defines tourists as people 'traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"'.

So whether for one year or otherwise a tourist has a finite period of stay else one is no longer considered by the Government of Thailand as a tourist.

Granted that some people use this as a way to live indefinitely in Thailand and technically are not tourists under the definition you cite but - assuming that one is not working in Thailand (which would be illegal) and therefore not taking money from the Thai economy internally, they are still bringing money into Thailand from the outside. So crack down on the long term squatters in other ways if you really want.

I'm still asking what is wrong with welcoming visitors who just want a warm winter? Let them stay for 3 or 4 months without silly, useless AND dangerous visa running every couple weeks. Might be a way to actually attract more visitors.

From my observation, the entire visa system in Thailand is archaic and aims at controlling the wrong things. I can understand that a country wants to know who is in their country and is not a citizen, I can understand that a government wants to control - even tightly control - working by non-citizens but to discourage long term visitors who simply add to an economy, I do not understand.

[cornishcarlos]

Sometimes it would just be nice to be treated as the husband of a Thai citizen.

Not a pseudo criminal that needs to justify wanting to live with his family !!!

[zebrafilm]

Did a visa run in 2011 to a Birmese post near Tak and already got this 15 days rule. So it has been there already, just hardly used.

[kingstonkid]

Kind of odd they would open all the Burmese crossing points and change it back to 15days. These border crossing seem to be purely for border runs. No one is going to waste their time hitting Ban Ron for a 15 day 900bhat(Not including transportation) stamp. They need to start beating the bushes for the 50+ crowd they seem predatory(Just look at all the creepers in most touristed areas) and might as well make them pay more for the privileged of long stay.

It is those and the middle aged that really have no employment that I think they are trying to discourage. Let's face it if you are over 50 then with your pension or any money you have coming in you should be able to meet the requirements.

Personally these are the kid of rules that i wish Immigration in Canada had set up. At least they do not give you the ability to say that you are a hardship case and need exile in Thailand because of tyour religious beliefs or your sister had sex with your brother so now your family is not safe..

[RogueLeader]

The writing has been clearly written on the wall for all to see, farang and Thai alike, for some years now. Thailand is in the clutches of the same cabal of ruthless neolibs as the rest of the developed world. They only want shirt-term tourists who will spend add much money as possible in multinationally-owned hotels and malls and then just go away quietly and come back later with more money.

Thailand doesn't want the pioneers who broke tourism into the region in the 1940s-1960s. They want rich, undiscriminating idiots, because they are the foot soldiers and the sacrificial lambs of consumerism and no economy can breed them fast enough.

[gbswales]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

I think they are not trying to discourage tourists, even long term ones. Rather they are trying to discourage people from living here more or less permanently on visa runs.

The Thai Government's position has always been that there is no problem with expats living in Thailand provided that they have a visa appropriate to their stay. Nothing wrong with that. Every country is the same.

I get the impression however that a lot of this is about "making money" from what I hear it can become inordinately expensive to live in Thailand for a long period of time. I don't see why someone should not be allowed to stay in any country as long as they have the means to support themselves from capital or external income. Changing status to employed or claiming benefits from the host country (where you do not pay tax) should require you to leave and re-apply for a different type of visa from outside the country. There is no sense in making life difficult for people who are not a drain on the economy. Not that Thailand is alone in stupid policies!

[JLCrab]

Re post # 24 anyone can get a single tourist visa in their home country good for 60 days upon entry and 30 days extended without ever leaving the country. My guess would be that would cover the large majority of those who would stay for 3 or 4 months with a 2 entry tourist visa providing an additional possible 90 day stay with only one exit and return to The Kingdom.

I'm guessing that as of now those in charge believe that is a reasonable policy and only inconveniences a small number and changes to accommodate that small number just brings on too many possible adverse outcomes.

Edited March 18, 2014 by JLCrab

[Johnnie99]

If I can go to the bother of getting the correct visa, why can't others?

I have to agree with the Thais on this one.

[Johnnie99]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

Do you seriously suggest that tourists are the target of this move?