Learn Thai and Shut Up

[Neeranam]

Kap Kap kap . Krap. na krap.

I do not understand, the Thais tell me all the time "i speak thai very well" "Khun puut passa thai geng maak". so i must be doing it right.

kap kap kap kap na krap. chai mai?

khun mai kaow jai? tammy? ugggggg....... i am basically fluent. soo close.

Thais say that to anyone. You'll know you're improving when they start saying "pood chat mak" then even more when they say "pood klong"

[wym]

Dude, do you really expect anyone to believe you when you say that Thai people ask you about Thai language and how to write? Now that is drivel. I can read and write Thai more than a bit and never have had anyone ask me. My 11 year old daughter overtook my abilities a couple of years ago. A Thai person would NEVER send their children to a farang who can read and write 'a bit' for language related stuff.

There are many locations in Thailand where many people are completely illiterate or can barely read and write.

A motivated adept-language-learning foreigner would within two years of hard study have higher level Thai language skills than 90% of those living in poor upcountry communities where central Thai is the second language, writing only encountered in school (where many attend only sporadically for a few years) and occasionally dealing with officialdom - where someone can usually help out.

Three of the dozen maid/nannies I've gone through over the years couldn't read or write at all.

A lower proportion of my SO's but some were pretty rudimentary, their English reading/writing skills often surpass their Thai within a year, they end up with thousands of higher-level English words that they don't know the equivalent in Thai even speaking much less writing.

Edited March 19, 2014 by wym

[Neeranam]

I thought it was a regional dialect, but apparently it's more of a class dialect?

The only time when i hear them say kob khun kRRRab is when they have anouncements somewhere. Or when they talk about the King on tv.

Here in BKK it is always klab. Mai pe laai, kapom, sawasdee kab.

Maybe it is not cool to speak properly? Or they don't want to sound hi-so.

Similar to in Scotland. The reason we don't speak proper English is so as not to be mistaken for an Englishman!

[Neeranam]

Dude, do you really expect anyone to believe you when you say that Thai people ask you about Thai language and how to write? Now that is drivel. I can read and write Thai more than a bit and never have had anyone ask me. My 11 year old daughter overtook my abilities a couple of years ago. A Thai person would NEVER send their children to a farang who can read and write 'a bit' for language related stuff.

There are many locations in Thailand where many people are completely illiterate or can barely read and write.

A motivated adept-language-learning foreigner would within two years of hard study have higher level Thai language skills than 90% of those living in poor upcountry communities where central Thai is the second language, writing only encountered in school (where many attend only sporadically for a few years) and occasionally dealing with officialdom - where someone can usually help out.

Three of the dozen maid/nannies I've gone through over the years couldn't read or write at all.

A lower proportion of my SO's but some were pretty rudimentary, their English reading/writing skills often surpass their Thai within a year, they end up with thousands of higher-level English words that they don't know the equivalent in Thai even speaking much less writing.

This is true but they would never ask that well educated foreigner to help them.

[wym]

This is true but they would never ask that well educated foreigner to help them.

In certain circumstances logical self-interest does overcome fear of losing face.

Good enough friend, no one else around to see, sure they would.

Especially a mother motivated to help her kids get a good education and have a better life - believe me VERY strong motivator.

[Dave 74]

After 5 years of studying Thai almost full-time and passing my Por Hok I really stopped using it unless really needed.

It was around that time that I really learned how much Westerners are dispised by many if not most of the locals.

[mancub]

I thought it was a regional dialect, but apparently it's more of a class dialect?

The only time when i hear them say kob khun kRRRab is when they have anouncements somewhere. Or when they talk about the King on tv.

Here in BKK it is always klab. Mai pe laai, kapom, sawasdee kab.

Maybe it is not cool to speak properly? Or they don't want to sound hi-so.

Similar to in Scotland. The reason we don't speak proper English is so as not to be mistaken for an Englishman!

May we apply the very same reasoning for not playing proper Rugby Union ???

[techboy]

Basically you are refuting something that has been taught to me over the years by several teachers in two different languages. Works for me. I repeatedly use what I know (you don't like this) and accumulate more words and phrases which I start figuring out how to string together. Ask a Thai about a missing word when doing this and vocab expands and then sentences. Yeah there is a lot of crash and burn when you think you said something perfectly. Briefly put, what you seem to find ridiculous actually works quite well in learning and communication.

[Nautilus05]

Kap Kap kap . Krap. na krap.

...

kap kap kap kap na krap. chai mai?

What do you mean? That's how they talk. Ever listen to a Thai on the phone? "Kap, Kap, Kap" or "Ka, Ka, Ka". Unless they're speaking Laos, then it's just a simple "sameelaat", and then quickly hang up.

[evadgib]

I find the English words that have slipped into Thai sometimes hard to understand. I learned a new one yesterday. I knew that some Thais call 2 stroke oil autolube but I was asking my nephew why he couldn't use petrol in a plastic bottle (aka stic) and he said mai dai sy talube lao I finally worked it out. I took me ages to work out that yar para was actually paracetamol because I thought it was being pronounced with an l ie yar pala. I still learn new words nearly every day, trouble is if I don't use them often they go out the back door

I get sick of saying Australia the second time after they always say ahh Austria

It take it , you mean, when ever you go somewhere, someone always asks...."where you from"....I got so sick of them trying to pronounce Australia in many different ways, I just reply now...."up the road"...job done

Ha....try to tell them you come from Greece.

None of them have a clue where this is.

Although, I have to admit, a few know that Greece won the European cup in 2004.

Amazing Thailand.

I found they do if you say 'Greek' instead of Greece.

They think that's a bloke with glasses!

[Neeranam]

i hope i can learn enough to get by

That's rather vague because it depends what you do and where you live.

If you sit on a bar stool 10 hours a day in lower Sukhumvit then nothing is enough to get by.

You can always marry an English-speaking Thai that has to be chained to you everywhere you go to translate.

I thought I knew enough to get by after a few years but then found myself in new situations.

Explaining what you want done to your car, buying materials for building a house, talking about horticulture, getting a mortgage and reading contracts, going on a Buddhist meditation course etc

Having kids and all that goes with that.

[Mangkhut]

I think first a guy should get to know the difference between Thai and Loas. "sep ee lee" is Loas for delicious not thai but is uised in Thailand by isaan people and others in northeren thailand. Why would someone speak loas and then tell someone to else to learn to speak thai?

Loas???? I presume you mean Laos.....

"Sep ee lee" is Isaan dialect and Isaan dialect is similar to laotian language but by no means totally the same. In Laos they would say "sep lai lai" or "sep lai doeh" and absolutely not "sep ee lee".

And "sep ee lee" is NOT used by Northern thais - in Northern Thailand they will use the expression "lam tee tee"......when talking about delicious food.

(and in Southern Thailand "aroy djang hoo"....)

I think it's Lao actually but the French decided a silent 's' was a cracking idea so we all pronounce it just to get our own back.

I wish my Thai was any good but I have to admit it's laziness.

do remember on my second visit here to Isaan the family were all in now brother in law's pick up and noticed that he said 'kap' instead of 'krap'. Apparently it's because people from Isaan have trouble saying 'krap'. I took a while to get my head around that.

Your correct in the term of how the laotians themselves and the thais use the word, Its called "Phatet Lao PDR" or "PDR Lao" when talking about the country and when talking about the Language thais and laotians Call it "phasaa lao". Foreign countries persons call the country Laos and the Language Laos or laotian. I have read several explenations why the "s" was added in the end of the word "Lao" by us foreigners and the one you mentioned might be the right one.

I was using the English/Foreign/farang term "Laos" when I answered Lovelomsak just to not confuse him even more. After all he called the Language "Loas"......

Edited March 19, 2014 by Mangkhut

[mogo51]

Those fotunate enough to be able to learn the Thai language, then I am in awe. However, many farangs in Thailand are mature age and it is a very difficult language to learn.

To be critical of those that try to show some effort to speak a few words here or there, should not be criticised or ridiculed, especially by other farangs!

If you are fluent, well done, if not but are trying, well done also - get off your high horse!

[bkkjames]

Be careful what you wish for.

You might find it more relaxing if you dont learn the language. Ignorance is bliss as the saying goes.

[heybuz]

i hope i can learn enough to get by

That's rather vague because it depends what you do and where you live.

If you sit on a bar stool 10 hours a day in lower Sukhumvit then nothing is enough to get by.

You can always marry an English-speaking Thai that has to be chained to you everywhere you go to translate.

I thought I knew enough to get by after a few years but then found myself in new situations.

Explaining what you want done to your car, buying materials for building a house, talking about horticulture, getting a mortgage and reading contracts, going on a Buddhist meditation course etc

Having kids and all that goes with that.

not to vague i have two kids I'm teaching english to ,i don't drink my y vice is cigarettes unfortunately,i let my wife do all the big deals so i don't get ripped off to much ,i normally don't attend when they are in progress and yes i know the norm of double standards for faring pricing.but i would still like to know at least some of the language,or be tagged a hypocrite as i have seen immigrants derided for not learning english in my home country. my wife speaks passable english

Edited March 19, 2014 by heybuz

[sirfin]

Cant wait for your next lesson.... If you want to feel awesome being in your perfect little word... Leave Thailand, go back to where ever it was you came from so you don't have to put up with anybody else but yourself...

[ChiangMike]

I just use "alai-wa!?" perpetually throughout the day, especially when talking to monks and my elders.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[MrWorldwide]

Given that I have to go through this whole, embarrassing charade with Bahasa over the next few months, I guess its a timely reminder that I will look - and sound - like a complete tool. Still, better to do it with a smile on my homely mug than spend that time worrying what other Bule think of my efforts - selamat sore siang, peeps !

[ABCer]

Sorry to break into the harmony of academic discussion.

Live here for 7 years permanently. Do not plan to leave. And do not ask me to.

Do not speak Thai. Do not plan or want to learn it.

Speaking of logic: - Why would anybody want to learn Thai and shut up???

These discussions spring up on TV quite regularly. To be or not to be. To learn or not to learn.

It is a free world and people who like to - have the perfect right to learn it.

And for exactly the same reason people who do not like to - have the perfect right not to learn it.

Peace! Love! Breakfast!

[maingmoom]

Funny the words used by farang that are obviously learned from a bar girl. My GF is quite fastidious in what I should and should not learn. Occasionally I use a word I've picked up here on TV and she is usually shocked. we've got an understanding too...whenever she says a word that I don't know and it has an "L" or and "R" sound, I ask "Ror rua or lor ling?" She doesn't want me saying things like "aloi" it has to be "aroi" with a fair amount of rolling the "r".

I think it all depends on what part of Thailand she comes from or what part you live in.

[bkkgooner]

Funny the words used by farang that are obviously learned from a bar girl. My GF is quite fastidious in what I should and should not learn. Occasionally I use a word I've picked up here on TV and she is usually shocked. we've got an understanding too...whenever she says a word that I don't know and it has an "L" or and "R" sound, I ask "Ror rua or lor ling?" She doesn't want me saying things like "aloi" it has to be "aroi" with a fair amount of rolling the "r".

Vast majority of Thais say aloi, I suppose it's good practice thought to speak the language properly. Would be nice to see more farang make a greater effort to speak Thai

[Mangkhut]

ooh i did a good one tonight.

asking for fish balls I mistakenly asked for fish footballs

everyone had a chuckle/

Just have a go, who cares if you stuff it up

Thais are in general very liberal about most things, also mispronounciations of thai words. And most of them seem to appriciate that we try and thus give a little effort in learning (some) their language. And if the wrong pronounciation of a thai word gives them a laugh - you have doubled chances for being liked and respected. (at least if you learn the right pronounciation after a while)

Nobody will learn thai without pronounciating a word or syllable wrong now and then.

You should have seen the faces of two thaiwomen to whom I tried to explain that in my home country there are alot of snow nowadays in thai.....

[namdocmai]

Funny the words used by farang that are obviously learned from a bar girl. My GF is quite fastidious in what I should and should not learn. Occasionally I use a word I've picked up here on TV and she is usually shocked. we've got an understanding too...whenever she says a word that I don't know and it has an "L" or and "R" sound, I ask "Ror rua or lor ling?" She doesn't want me saying things like "aloi" it has to be "aroi" with a fair amount of rolling the "r".

Vast majority of Thais say aloi, I suppose it's good practice thought to speak the language properly. Would be nice to see more farang make a greater effort to speak Thai

The reason why i don't speak much Thai to strangers is because when i do order/ask something in Thai they always give very long answers where just Yes or No also would do. The Thai won't say No as an answer but instead always say Mod Leaw or some long sentences that i don't understand.

Even when i ask how much something costs (because they refuse to put a pricetag) i get long answers instead of a price. So it's better to ask in english just How much and then they have the language barrier and will tell you the price immediatly.

I don't work in Thailand, only spend money so they should make it easy for me. If they can't or won't do that then i know plenty other places where i can buy/go to. BKK is not a small village where i don't have other options then going to Somchai with his double-pricing or wasting time tricks.

I didn't meet many bargirls but the ones i met in touristic places speak far better english then for example house or carsellers here in BKK.

[FiftyTwo]

ooh i did a good one tonight.

asking for fish balls I mistakenly asked for fish footballs

everyone had a chuckle/

Just have a go, who cares if you stuff it up

Thais are in general very liberal about most things, also mispronounciations of thai words. And most of them seem to appriciate that we try and thus give a little effort in learning (some) their language. And if the wrong pronounciation of a thai word gives them a laugh - you have doubled chances for being liked and respected. (at least if you learn the right pronounciation after a while)

Nobody will learn thai without pronounciating a word or syllable wrong now and then.

You should have seen the faces of two thaiwomen to whom I tried to explain that in my home country there are alot of snow nowadays in thai.....

Oh my god, watch out for that dog pussy on the ground.

[ABCer]

Funny the words used by farang that are obviously learned from a bar girl. My GF is quite fastidious in what I should and should not learn. Occasionally I use a word I've picked up here on TV and she is usually shocked. we've got an understanding too...whenever she says a word that I don't know and it has an "L" or and "R" sound, I ask "Ror rua or lor ling?" She doesn't want me saying things like "aloi" it has to be "aroi" with a fair amount of rolling the "r".

Vast majority of Thais say aloi, I suppose it's good practice thought to speak the language properly. Would be nice to see more farang make a greater effort to speak Thai

The reason why i don't speak much Thai to strangers is because when i do order/ask something in Thai they always give very long answers where just Yes or No also would do. The Thai won't say No as an answer but instead always say Mod Leaw or some long sentences that i don't understand.

Even when i ask how much something costs (because they refuse to put a pricetag) i get long answers instead of a price. So it's better to ask in english just How much and then they have the language barrier and will tell you the price immediatly.

I don't work in Thailand, only spend money so they should make it easy for me. If they can't or won't do that then i know plenty other places where i can buy/go to. BKK is not a small village where i don't have other options then going to Somchai with his double-pricing or wasting time tricks.

I didn't meet many bargirls but the ones i met in touristic places speak far better english then for example house or carsellers here in BKK.

When learning to speak any language it's not enough to learn grammar, vocabulary, write or read.

One must actually speak! - in other word use one's mouth.

Perhaps bar girls you have met do just that?

[Trentham]

I can read and write Thai a bit and am constantly amazed at the bad spelling amongst the general Thai population. One Thai friend sends her son to me when he has a question about Thai language and she herself once asked me how to write ษ sor bor rusi. Oddly enough I don't feel my Thai language is very good.

UNbelievable!

Well I suppose you have to write a lot of silly comments to run up a total of more than 10,000 posts.

Keep up the drivel.

Dude, do you really expect anyone to believe you when you say that Thai people ask you about Thai language and how to write? Now that is drivel. I can read and write Thai more than a bit and never have had anyone ask me. My 11 year old daughter overtook my abilities a couple of years ago. A Thai person would NEVER send their children to a farang who can read and write 'a bit' for language related stuff.

I guess that you find it hard to believe that the Earth is round also. I guess i shouldn't have used the words "a bit". I read and write quite well and am not bad on the grammar too. I just didn't want to sound like a smartarse.

[Neeranam]

Sorry to break into the harmony of academic discussion.

Live here for 7 years permanently. Do not plan to leave. And do not ask me to.

Do not speak Thai. Do not plan or want to learn it.

Speaking of logic: - Why would anybody want to learn Thai and shut up???

These discussions spring up on TV quite regularly. To be or not to be. To learn or not to learn.

It is a free world and people who like to - have the perfect right to learn it.

And for exactly the same reason people who do not like to - have the perfect right not to learn it.

Peace! Love! Breakfast!

Living in a country for 7 years without learning(or wanting to!) is very illogical.

Funny as I studied pure maths at university many years ago and know about logic.

There is a difference between "learn Thai v shut up " and "learn Thai ^ shut up"

If anyone's interested I could construct a truth table.

Let me try to explain better what I meant. I can speak Thai, I've studied it for years. Yesterday I went to the dentist - I go to the dental college because I'm a grippy Scotsman. I was sitting in the waiting room with about 20 other people. I've never seen any foreigners there. I thought of this thread and never said anything. There was a time when I'd have said something just for the sake of speaking, but why? Perhaps low self-esteem, ignorance, ego, self-importance? I witness some whiteys acting as if they are something special and frankly I feel make a fool of themselves and foreigners in general. Many Thais think 'farang' are clowns because of this behavior. What I was suggesting is to learn the language but there's no need to prove to everyone you meet and in all situations to speak.

[Neeranam]

I can read and write Thai a bit and am constantly amazed at the bad spelling amongst the general Thai population. One Thai friend sends her son to me when he has a question about Thai language and she herself once asked me how to write ษ sor bor rusi. Oddly enough I don't feel my Thai language is very good.

UNbelievable!

Well I suppose you have to write a lot of silly comments to run up a total of more than 10,000 posts.

Keep up the drivel.

Dude, do you really expect anyone to believe you when you say that Thai people ask you about Thai language and how to write? Now that is drivel. I can read and write Thai more than a bit and never have had anyone ask me. My 11 year old daughter overtook my abilities a couple of years ago. A Thai person would NEVER send their children to a farang who can read and write 'a bit' for language related stuff.

I guess that you find it hard to believe that the Earth is round also. I guess i shouldn't have used the words "a bit". I read and write quite well and am not bad on the grammar too. I just didn't want to sound like a smartarse.

You may be able to fool some but not me. Did you Thai friend go to school? How old is the son?

Once you've been here a while, you'll see what a ridiculous statement you made.

There's a slim chance that your friend never went to school past Kindergarden 1(where they learn the alphabet) and their son is under 4, but I doubt it.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Neeranam

[Trentham]

I can read and write Thai a bit and am constantly amazed at the bad spelling amongst the general Thai population. One Thai friend sends her son to me when he has a question about Thai language and she herself once asked me how to write ษ sor bor rusi. Oddly enough I don't feel my Thai language is very good.

UNbelievable!

Well I suppose you have to write a lot of silly comments to run up a total of more than 10,000 posts.

Keep up the drivel.

Dude, do you really expect anyone to believe you when you say that Thai people ask you about Thai language and how to write? Now that is drivel. I can read and write Thai more than a bit and never have had anyone ask me. My 11 year old daughter overtook my abilities a couple of years ago. A Thai person would NEVER send their children to a farang who can read and write 'a bit' for language related stuff.

I guess that you find it hard to believe that the Earth is round also. I guess i shouldn't have used the words "a bit". I read and write quite well and am not bad on the grammar too. I just didn't want to sound like a smartarse.

You may be able to fool some but not me. Did you Thai friend go to school? How old is the son?

Once you've been here a while, you'll see what a ridiculous statement you made.

There's a slim chance that your friend never went to school past Kindergarden 1(where they learn the alphabet) and their son is under 4, but I doubt it.

This subject is about logic and you are not displaying any at all. Why do you want to disagree with me? Why do you find it incomprehensible that a Westerner who can speak Thai really well would not be asked by a friend of 27 years, who is a busy and educated business woman with not much time on her hands, to ask me to help her 10 year old son with his homework.

For somebody who has posted more than 10,000 times it seems to me you really have too much to say and I am sure I am not the first that you have criticized. It would be interesting to go back and read some of your postings. Perhaps it would reveal a tendency to be a know-it-all. Perhaps it would reveal a psychological desperation to be smarter than other people on Thai visa.

So I am not going to respond to any more of your postings on this subject and allow you to exhibit your over sized ego at my expense. Besides it is obvious you want to get to 20,000 postings and on the way bore everybody to death. I won't assist in that either.

[ABCer]

Sorry to break into the harmony of academic discussion.

Live here for 7 years permanently. Do not plan to leave. And do not ask me to.

Do not speak Thai. Do not plan or want to learn it.

Speaking of logic: - Why would anybody want to learn Thai and shut up???

These discussions spring up on TV quite regularly. To be or not to be. To learn or not to learn.

It is a free world and people who like to - have the perfect right to learn it.

And for exactly the same reason people who do not like to - have the perfect right not to learn it.

Peace! Love! Breakfast!

Living in a country for 7 years without learning(or wanting to!) is very illogical.

Funny as I studied pure maths at university many years ago and know about logic.

There is a difference between "learn Thai v shut up " and "learn Thai ^ shut up"

If anyone's interested I could construct a truth table.

Let me try to explain better what I meant. I can speak Thai, I've studied it for years. Yesterday I went to the dentist - I go to the dental college because I'm a grippy Scotsman. I was sitting in the waiting room with about 20 other people. I've never seen any foreigners there. I thought of this thread and never said anything. There was a time when I'd have said something just for the sake of speaking, but why? Perhaps low self-esteem, ignorance, ego, self-importance? I witness some whiteys acting as if they are something special and frankly I feel make a fool of themselves and foreigners in general. Many Thais think 'farang' are clowns because of this behavior. What I was suggesting is to learn the language but there's no need to prove to everyone you meet and in all situations to speak.

Thanks Neeranam. Makes us a kind of kindred spirits. I have studied Physics. Often requires a bit of Maths and logic.

Let me also try to explain better what I meant.

Level 1. No use to learn language and not use it - 'shut up'.

Level 2. When Thais speak - they are awfully verbose and loud. This is due to three reasons:

Lots of vowels in their language plus tonal nature of the language;

Lack of pronounced consonants - kind of 'lazy' articulation (not to be mixed with laziness);

Plain verbosity or non-compact, non-concise language ( compare 1 page of English text with its 2 page Thai version);

On a more personal note, given a perfect Thai language I would be hard pressed to converse with Thais due to cultural differences.

In other words - no motivation to learn it.

Hope no Thai bashing is suspected.