Homebuilder Driving Me Crazy

[bender92]

A water heater should not require new wiring. I've added them to condos on existing circuits.

[Sheryl]

my mate built his in-laws a house and said he had to be there very day and had to check everything as the builders were so unreliable hopeless.

Our neighbor did go to his house every day while it was being built. He said he caught many, many things that were being done incorrectly. Silly us, though. We thought home building companies knew how to build houses, and we came to see the place only on the weekends.

I was a total innocent when my house was built. Didn't supervise a thing and wouldn't have been able to anyhow as I didn't know the first thing about it. I had no idea how many things can go wrong, nor how negligent contractors and staff can be.

I know now vastly more, learned the hard way. If I had to do it over again I'd hire a professional to supervise the whole thing and bring in a company from Bkk for the wiring and the plumbing.

Built in 1997 and still finding new things they did wrong. Mist recently also involving a bathtub.

You have my sympathy.

[Dave 74]

Can't trust them to change a light bulb.

[Gonsalviz]

That's all you have to complain about?

I have 2 circuits that pop breakers and an entire room without power.

The water heater (12,500 watt) was wired to a 20 amp breaker first, then a 35 amp and finally I got them to install a 63 amp breaker but the wiring is still wrong.

Then there is the granite flooring that is all but ruined and 2 master bath sink drains that fall apart and the bathtub installed without a drain trap so I don't use it because I've closed the drain and taped around the vent.

This was done by a German builder. He claims they will fix it but the house has been finished for almost a year.

[deepcell]

come on get real, thai never make mistake, you pay or you have big problem, falang rich have big money, thai people poor, no like go home, just for the thai holier than thou brigade

may pen rai

[BudRight]

Don't pay them. For anything.

Edited March 21, 2014 by BudRight

[namdocmai]

Change the boiler for a smaller one. 9500 watt is very much. If your breaker can have 6000 and the cables are thick enough (thaiyazaki brand is good) then it is an easy solution.

Also test and check the wires in your western kitchen. Put all machines on, also the waterboilers and aircons and then let's see what starts smoking.

I also have a western kitchen but total new electric system for that.

Edited March 21, 2014 by namdocmai

[ggt]

They really do not make that many mistakes...the "mistake" was brought about when the building foreman figured up how much money he could pocket...and that you would be unable to do anything about it...sucks...I know...try to move on...this kind of thing happens with great regularity...do not take it personally...many a farang has had similar experiences...

[thailandbeachisland]

Pay and forget it, you won't be bankrupt and nobody care your principles here.

[Crossy]

A water heater should not require new wiring. I've added them to condos on existing circuits.

Just because you've done it, and it works, doesn't mean it's right or safe.

Adding a 9.5kW heater to an existing circuit is a recipe for a fire.

[Joe Mamma]

Yes, a thorough micro-management is necessary and materials and proper utilization is to be monitored hourly. Go oversize on wiring and fuse boxes. And true copper stake grounding ,3 prong wiring is mandatory. This will save your life and gear too.

[Donnie Brasco]

I'm sorry to hear about all this trouble and disappointment . . . . . . . this time it comes from construction and/or renovation.

This trouble and disappointment, however, spring from the same old problem.

The victims in question assume behaviour and remedy similar to what they THINK might be available in their home countries.

First, it probably ain't available back there.

More importantly a Thai "tradesman" is usually some poor sod looking forward to a couple of thousand baht at the end of the week so that he can get drunk.

Any customer, Thai OR gringo, who thinks he can wring some level of specific performance out of this untrained, poor-sod "tradesman" is suffering from a low-level degree of hubris.

You have no leverage here. Your illusory belief that (by dint of demonstrating a better way for them) you have is delusional.

The stealing, cheating, incompetent tradesman or, administrator or in one case here, the admin clowns in the office, just don't take you seriously.

Get used to it.

Micromanage.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[bbradsby]

For one-off, custom homes, your chances of success are all about the cash flow: whos 'up" at the exact moment of the negotiation in question. This assumes a full-time Western construction manager to manage the payment:work in-place ratio week-to-week. Most here are working directly with rural farmer-builders, so imagine you're working with a water buffalo with delicate ego and power tools and you get the picture of how effective discussions will be if you dont hold the cash upper hand.

The large, merchant Thai developers, on the other hand, must perform to building standards, And I know from personal experience that they will rectify a situation if you put a gun to their project development site manager's head while kindly informing him of an element in your house that doesnt meet standards and is unsafe.

The veiled threat must be that they either fix your problem or you'll call the building department and then theyll look like an idiot or on the take in front of their boss and will have to fix the entire moobahn/condo building's worth. They don't care about your kids' safety of course, but they don't want to be embarrassed in front of their moobahn director and/or home office.

Element in question was lack of safety glass in the sliding glass doors of a spanking new, high end Land & Houses moobahn. Issue was made right within days. But you need jai yen and the message happens in Bhasa Thai, so if you cant do it your Thai wife or GF needs the stones to do it. That may actually be the hard part.

Edited March 22, 2014 by bbradsby

[WhizBang]

The big problem here in Thailand, is that the majority (if not all) of the workers on your site are not tradesmen. They are out of work Issan farmers who have found alternate employment between crops. You would be very lucky if there were to be even one qualified individual on your jobsite.

This is why the workmanship stinks. These farmers are shown, one time, how to do the job, then let loose on the unsuspecting world.

There is a reason that building costs in Thailand are cheap. If you want it done right hire professionals who will be there to supervise the job.

As for the OP. Bite the bullet. Pay (again) to have the wiring/breaker box replaced, by someone who knows what they are doing. It is simply not worth the agrivation to sweat over the lost money. You can't win anyway.

[sms747]

The only thing Thais seem to be able to do well is tiling and wallpapering, anything more advanced, even getting them to use a spirit level, is difficult as they always know best. The annoying thing is when they agree to do it as asked, then STILL do it another way, then come up with a BS excuse as to why your way was not right or possible.

[fotog]

This is the reason I bought tools and power tools shortly after I bought my condo. Long story but no one I ever hired knew jack and most were incompetent or tried to pull the wool over my eyes. 'Professionals' borrow my tools, use my ladders after I tell them not to stand on my antique furniture, painters don't use drop clothes and then want to sand or scrape dripped paint off expensive furniture, when they could have covered it in the first place. If they do use a drop cloth it is because I have provided it.

My friend built a home but he is an engineer and was very specific about the electric he wanted. Even with a blueprint and a signed detailed contract he had to watch their every move and stop the builder at each step and say; " this is not correct, this is not what we agreed on so let's stop right here at this stage and do it over before you continue" unfortunately he went through this same dance from start-to-finish, but in the end he got what he wanted. The grief he experienced took a toll.

I do my own work but even if I didn't I would purchase all plumbing, paint, fixtures, etc myself and just deal on a labor-only basis with the installers, otherwise they will buy cheap faucets, sinks, door handles, add water to the paint, etc and you don't know what you are getting. Then you still need to watch their every move because if they are not incompetent they will take shortcuts that won't be apparent until after you have moved in.

I know this does not answer the OP but hopefully it will help in the future.

[mmh8]

my mate built his in-laws a house and said he had to be there very day and had to check everything as the builders were so unreliable hopeless.

Our neighbor did go to his house every day while it was being built. He said he caught many, many things that were being done incorrectly. Silly us, though. We thought home building companies knew how to build houses, and we came to see the place only on the weekends.

I was a total innocent when my house was built. Didn't supervise a thing and wouldn't have been able to anyhow as I didn't know the first thing about it. I had no idea how many things can go wrong, nor how negligent contractors and staff can be.

I know now vastly more, learned the hard way. If I had to do it over again I'd hire a professional to supervise the whole thing and bring in a company from Bkk for the wiring and the plumbing.

Built in 1997 and still finding new things they did wrong. Mist recently also involving a bathtub.

You have my sympathy.

Sheryl I find the real issue is finding a professional to hire. You would be surprised at what work is done by a professional.

# if you can advise on where to find the professional I would pay top baht for it.

[mmh8]

I bought a high rise penthouse in the Phratamnak area of Jomtien built by a well known Pattaya developer. I wanted the condo built to my specifications and layout so I had professional CAD drawing done with exact layouts. I did floor plans, elevations, schedules and reflected ceiling plans. Everything was clearly detailed and specified. I gave the project manager 8 full sets of drawings figuring he could distribute the drawings to all of various trades. Each day I would check the progress only to find plumbing and electrical out of place. I went to the project manager and he would smile and ask me if I had some more sets of drawings. The next time I checked the progress, I found the plumbing and electrical were indeed moved but not to the correct location. I again went to speak to the project manager and he again smiled and asked for additional sets of drawings. It was only after many times of doing this that I realized that NOBODY could read plans and the project manager was just placating me by asking for more drawings. From then on, I was full hands on with all the trades as there was almost no supervision on the job site. They did everything three times and never seemed to mind the additional cost of time and material. I can't believe the developer puts up with these cost overruns. It must take a big bite out of his bottom line.

My suspicion is that so many people don't ask for the changes to be made and just accept it with a mai ben drai

so in every hundred units you get 10 minors and 5 major changes wanted. the changes can be done as many times as you want since there is no demand for the rest of the workers time.

I am guessing that the workers will be changed on a regular basis as they find more money in a different site so the experience is never kept for a working team

[meatboy]

well fk.me so that's where our forman was last week.

[meatboy]

a 5million bht.house built in a mooban,no measuring tape,no spirit level,1 shovel,1 cement mixing bowl,1 drill bit,1 paint brush,no cloths,half the proper measure of cement,rotton wooden windows,no undercoat or primer on anything,cheap window and door latches and bolts,rusty security doors and bars dipped in paint to look new,different shades of varnish on the stair rail,pipe work and drainage not completed,all the rubbish dumped in the garden then turfed over,cant think of anything else,ohhhhhhh electric not earthed.

so all in all not a bad job

and that what comes of not being there for the build and leaving a thai in charge.

BUT STILL HAPPY

[fotog]

This could have happened anywhere as there are plenty of slip-shod contractors in the USA too. I have taken two to court and won both times but it was time consuming.

The trick is to find someone reputable and competent.

• Two cases in USA where I did not go to court as I was too busy: Contractor was putting on a new roof and did not cover the bare under roof even though I told him too. He just laughed and said confidently: "Oh we won't get any rain tonight, NO WAY!" Well at 2am it did rain and water was pouring into my house everywhere, ruining the ceilings, carpet, furniture. So at 2am I am up on the roof with plastic trash bags trying to slow down the leaking water!
• Next I was having a room addition added to my house. I did as I said in my previous response in that I bought all the lumber, etc. The builder was a 'great' guy and gave me a sob story that his mother was just hospitalized with no insurance so could I just pay up front for the work instead of installments as agreed to.
• I gave him the money and I never saw him again. All the lumber is still in my back pasture completely rotted and full of termites.
• Next had a new roof installed 2010 in absenteeism while in BKK and a good friend going over to check on it.
• When they put the new slats on the carport they neglected to nail them down.
• Then had a painter who was highly referred to do some outside painting while I was in BKK.
• He did not paint the top of the carport as no one could see it, did not reinforce the side wall as agreed to, he put the cheapest lattice on the side and leaned it against the carport, so the first time the wind blew it fell down. Oh sure he sent clever pictures to me showing the work was completed, and demanded his final payment. He even left the empty paint cans and old debris from the carport in my yard.
• I called him many times to come back to fix everything properly and all I got was; "Sure no problem, I have the lumber and the paint for the carport and as soon as I have a 'chance and my back heals' I will be over to fix and paint everything."

Well I have heard that song enough times to know he would never be coming back so I fixed and painted everything myself on my annual visit.

Lastly I cannot tell you all of the times USA and Thai contractors don't show up on time or don't show up at all.

So when it comes to incompetent, dishonest contractors; they are everywhere. Only difference in USA there is probably more legal recourse but maybe not.

Why do I have to always learn the hard way? But now I know a little more and hopefully it will save some future grief.

[cheeryble]

I think preferable to being there constantly is specifying specifying and specifying again......in writing and drawings.....and going through it regularly.....AND making sure the translation is clear.

Even back home you CANNOT spend too much time in planning and foreseeing problems before they begin.

This requires some experience.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[klikster]

If you have access to outside, consider a gas water heater. MEX brands for Rinnai, also small units in the builder's stores.