Ranong: Portuguese cannon smashed to build Buddha figure

[Dogmatix]

market price today is about 53 milj bht if pure copper

Really?? A 437 kilogram cannon has a scrap value of 53 million baht??

Each kilogram of copper is worth approx 120,000 baht?

If that is true- I am surprised that Thailand has not reverted to the dark ages due to thieves stealing the electric and telephone wiring.

Imagine how much money is "hanging in the air" in Bangkok!

120,000 baht is about the total scrap value of the cannon, not the value per kg. Scrap bronze sells for around US$4 per lb.

[allan michaud]

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Very saddened to see a 500 year-old piece of history destroyed in such a way. Let's consider for a moment what the reaction of Thai people would be if someone smashed a statue of Buddha to recreate an old Portuguese cannon...?!

Archeology Thai style. It doesn't surprise me having watched hundreds of people being assisted by idiots with huge diggers just trashing an archeological site in Issan a couple of years back. It was just insane and all people could find were tiny scraps of smashed up artifacts.

[Bakseeda]

... it is utterly shameful to destroy art of any form, especially older pieces. Very sad to see.

it was an antique cannon- not a piece of art..

No, not an antique, but an important part of history. Some Thais seem oblivious to the value and richness of history, particularly if it is not "Thai".

Oh sure, some will say, but we must respect the ways of Thailand, but it goes both ways.

When the Taliban blew up the ancient Buddhas of Afghanistan, the western world rushed in to try and salvage the damage and preserve the history.

And what did these Buddhists do? I doubt they did anything.

What this temple has done and what its abbot permitted was shameful and contrary to all that they espouse.

If these folks wish to build idols and worship before them, that is their personal right. However, it is not their right to seize and destroy an historical artifact that serves to provide a touchstone of Thailand's history. It would have done society more good to have the cannon been on display than to cast another bust of Buddha. How many idols do they need to be holy?

And for once, I fully agree with this guy.. and a Touchstone of world history .. what a crime by these so called Buddhist monks... .

[belg]

yes because thailand needs another buddah statue, off course, thainess

[Misterwhisper]

When we moved to a new house years ago, the maid seriously asked me whether it was necessary to pack "all these books" from my library. After all, they were heavy and we could sell them to the local scavengers, saving ourselves the burden of having to lug them to the new place. My books, many of them very rare first editions and a good two dozen of them several hundreds of years old, to her had the same value as the newspapers and magazines she collects and sells at 2 or 3 Baht per kilogram every couple of weeks or so. I was dumbfounded.

After I had bought from abroad a travel gramophone manufactured in 1935 to play my collection of 78 rpm shellac records, she asked me how much it had cost. When I told her she said she didn't understand why I would "waste so much money on such an old machine" when I could have purchased a brand-new CD deck for less than half that.

[Benmart]

... it is utterly shameful to destroy art of any form, especially older pieces. Very sad to see.

it was an antique cannon- not a piece of art..

I wonder? To an admirer of military antiques, it may be the art of an craftsman.

I try to keep an open mind and not to nit pick symantics.

[loongdavid]

As if this country wants or needs another statue of Buddha! The Abbot at my local temple thinks his way at gaining merit is to have as many statues as possible. Much to the annoyance of the locals the temple and the land surrounding now looks as if a yard sale of Buddhist tourist junk is in progress. It has to be the most hideous temple in Thailand. Furthermore, the act of receiving stolen goods, particularly antiquities, is a criminal act. Throw the Abbot in gaol I say.

[rametindallas]

the cannon was made out of bronze or copper(look at the color in the picture)

market price today is about 53 milj bht if pure copper ,witch i doubt,prob it's mixed with tin (making it bronse) but still worth some money.

They planned to sell it(that's why it is cut in so many pieces,if it had to be melted you did not have to chop it up in so many pieces) and sold already 38 kg,the rest had to be sold slowly because

nobody wanted to burn his fingers on a large quantity .

The police were thinking the same ,they start immediately weighing and counting !("sh$t ,the monks were more quick than them,lol)

Copper loves copper?

"market price today is about 53 milj bht if pure copper"

Because of diminishing market demand for Brass Ingot Alloy C85400, prices will no longer be published. Prices for other Brass/Bronze Alloys reflect the market for the reported date and will only be updated when sufficient and reliable data is available.

http://www.metalprices.com/metal/brass

Brass (Plumbing, Pipe) $1.60 /lb.

Bronze $1.80 /lb.

Brass Shells $1.45 /lb.

Brass Water Meter $1.10 /lb.

Clean Brass Radiators $1.40 /lb.

Insulated Copper Wire (Cat 5/6) $0.85 /lb.

http://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap_news/current-price-of-scrap-copper/

It seems people will write anything on an anonymous forum.

[rametindallas]

I have no praise for this act, for two reasons.

Number one is that Buddha himself opposed idolatry and rejected the whole concept of statues and other images in the spiritual journey. Essentially he believed they were the opposite of his teachings, which were about the internal voyage and the acts of compassion and balance that you projected outwards to the world, a world in which the trees rocks and birds are as much "you" as the meat and bone your soul carries around. So basically the Buddha would reject all the images of himself, including the one proposed in the OP.

Secondly and obviously, it is utterly shameful to destroy art of any form, especially older pieces. Very sad to see.

You consider a canon to be art?

Is this art?

[Cat ji]

Good.

Oh sure, some will say, but we must respect the ways of Thailand, but it goes both ways. (quote from Geriatrickid)

It is a pretty much one way street here. The Thai way or the Highway.

Just the way it is...

Good. Even better.
Thai way or highway; highway back to Great Britain and discuss it with the jihadis, tell them British way or highway. On the subject of "idolatry", some of you all could reach some agreement.

[cooked]

I suggest that the monks melt down a Buddha statue or two (as mentioned above, idolatry should have no part of Buddhism) and be used to mm.. mm.. make bullets? Sorry, I couldn't think of anything better offhand.

Someone stated that this is a dismal uninteresting topic. Behind the news is the suggestion that these monks, that almost certainly have plenty of cash, have a completely ignorant view of the importance of historic artefacts. They could easily have sold it on Ebay for at least twice its scrap value, I would have bought it if I had the cash. But then the police would have come around, wouldn't they?

[Loles]

So for 500 years in a war weapon, and the next 500 years in a Buddha image.

Not so bad changing. war --> peace

(only joke)

[amse]

Is this the norm for the mentality of most Thai Monks?

Edited March 22, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[Bangmod]

Mr. Thawatchai also told our correspondent that the incident is the first offence under the 1961 law he ever came across in his working experience.

Or he's been doing this job only for a week, or he's been picking his nose for years, getting kickbacks from government officials for turning a blind eye.

There is such a big black market in Thailand for stolen artifacts that the amount of money involved would have saved the rice scam for a decade to come...

[Briggsy]

What were they thinking? Or perhaps just not thinking at all more like. I very much doubt any of the monks or the worshippers suggested to the abbott that it was not a good idea. To contradict the abbott would be culturally taboo even if he was ordering something stupid and illegal.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Briggsy

[bigbamboo]

Just what Thailand needs....... another Buddha statue.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts have been deleted along with replies.

[BeforeTigers]

hm. Decided to go with Portuguese, rather than 500-year-old.

Interesting choice.

[BeforeTigers]

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market price today is about 53 milj bht if pure copper

Really?? A 437 kilogram cannon has a scrap value of 53 million baht??

Each kilogram of copper is worth approx 120,000 baht?

If that is true- I am surprised that Thailand has not reverted to the dark ages due to thieves stealing the electric and telephone wiring.

Imagine how much money is "hanging in the air" in Bangkok!

I have also wondered why that does not seem to be as big a problem here as it is in the States.
Shhhh.
Don't give anyone any ideas.

[dighambara]

A great shame that few Thais will appreciate, while most foreigners will be saddened by the event.

[TPI]

When you see how the Temples preserve even very old Thai treasures you will see the Thai respect for their history........not!

If it's not connected to some myth regarding royalty or a monk then it gets very short shift!

[kieran2698]

I have no praise for this act, for two reasons.

Number one is that Buddha himself opposed idolatry and rejected the whole concept of statues and other images in the spiritual journey. Essentially he believed they were the opposite of his teachings, which were about the internal voyage and the acts of compassion and balance that you projected outwards to the world, a world in which the trees rocks and birds are as much "you" as the meat and bone your soul carries around. So basically the Buddha would reject all the images of himself, including the one proposed in the OP.

Secondly and obviously, it is utterly shameful to destroy art of any form, especially older pieces. Very sad to see.

You consider a canon to be art?

Is this art?

No, it is design.

[kieran2698]

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market price today is about 53 milj bht if pure copper

Really?? A 437 kilogram cannon has a scrap value of 53 million baht??

Each kilogram of copper is worth approx 120,000 baht?

If that is true- I am surprised that Thailand has not reverted to the dark ages due to thieves stealing the electric and telephone wiring.

Imagine how much money is "hanging in the air" in Bangkok!

I have also wondered why that does not seem to be as big a problem here as it is in the States.

Shhhh.

Don't give anyone any ideas.

Because they use a lot more aluminum?

[Soutpeel]

I have no praise for this act, for two reasons.

Number one is that Buddha himself opposed idolatry and rejected the whole concept of statues and other images in the spiritual journey. Essentially he believed they were the opposite of his teachings, which were about the internal voyage and the acts of compassion and balance that you projected outwards to the world, a world in which the trees rocks and birds are as much "you" as the meat and bone your soul carries around. So basically the Buddha would reject all the images of himself, including the one proposed in the OP.

Secondly and obviously, it is utterly shameful to destroy art of any form, especially older pieces. Very sad to see.

You consider a canon to be art?

Is this art?

No, it is design.

no its a cannon, a weapon..

if we consider this art, then we could also consider an ICBM or an AK-47 "art"

I remember reading something one time which said something cant be "art" if it has a function other than being "art"..

therefore as this has another function, its a cannon..it cant be art....its a pretty cannon..

Edited March 23, 2014 by Scott

[kieran2698]

The article says the cannon was found near the Nicobar Islands, right? Which is NOT part of Thailand, right? Which means this cannon was stolen goods, right?

Wrong. As long as they were 12 nautical miles off the coast then it was theirs to lawfully keep as no one owns the sea.

[tomyummer]

The article says the cannon was found near the Nicobar Islands, right? Which is NOT part of Thailand, right? Which means this cannon was stolen goods, right?

Wrong. As long as they were 12 nautical miles off the coast then it was theirs to lawfully keep as no one owns the sea.

Tell that to the Chinese.

[PadHopper]

I was immediately reminded of the Taliban's destruction of the Afghani Buddhist sculptures. Different scale, figuratively and literally, but bigotry on full display.

[SheungWan]

I have no praise for this act, for two reasons.

Number one is that Buddha himself opposed idolatry and rejected the whole concept of statues and other images in the spiritual journey. Essentially he believed they were the opposite of his teachings, which were about the internal voyage and the acts of compassion and balance that you projected outwards to the world, a world in which the trees rocks and birds are as much "you" as the meat and bone your soul carries around. So basically the Buddha would reject all the images of himself, including the one proposed in the OP.

Secondly and obviously, it is utterly shameful to destroy art of any form, especially older pieces. Very sad to see.

You consider a canon to be art?

Is this art?

No, it is design.

A post-grad course in "art, form and function" might be in order here. To deny that even the middle image above does not encompass art requires a very heavy set of blinkers indeed.

[xen]

market price today is about 53 milj bht if pure copper

Really?? A 437 kilogram cannon has a scrap value of 53 million baht??

Each kilogram of copper is worth approx 120,000 baht?

If that is true- I am surprised that Thailand has not reverted to the dark ages due to thieves stealing the electric and telephone wiring.

Imagine how much money is "hanging in the air" in Bangkok!

I remember reading articles in the Pattaya papers about thieves stealing the phone lines , somewhere out on the Darkside. There was even a guy fried when he tried to steal live electricity lines ( Darwinism at its best) . probably seemed like a good idea before the event.

[xen]

no its a cannon, a weapon..

if we consider this art, then we could also consider an ICBM or an AK-47 "art"

I remember reading something one time which said something cant be "art" if it has a function other than being "art"..

therefore as this has another function, its a cannon..it cant be art....its a pretty cannon..

Sorry I would disagree Soutpeel that something can't be art if it has a function other than being art.

A favourite saying from an architect that i admire, Frank Lloyd Wright said "Form plus Function equals Beauty "

This is my "guiding light" so as to speak when i am doing a design.

So under your definition pottery or glass or architecture or furniture or a garden or just plain good design will never reach the state of being art .