Double-decker bus may be banned from hilly roads in Thailand

[JoeThePoster]

How about banning hilly roads?

[wilcopops]

I recently took a minibus visa run from Koh Samui to the Malaysian border.

The driver had 3 mobile phones and a walky talky to communicate with a second minibus from the same company.

The driver never stopped talking on his phones during the whole trip and driving very fast.

Most times he was holding 2 phones and talking to two different callers and many times he used all three mobiles and steered the mininbus with his knees.

It was horrendous.

On the way back to the port on the return journey a German or Russian woman passenger screamed at him to stop and he turned round and nearly threw her off the bus, but at least he eventually stopped and sullenly sulked for the last few miles.

This happens all too often on buses and taxis in Thailand and I am thinking of buying a Mobile phone signal scrambler to take on journeys with me.

Apparently when you switch it on a mobile phone message comes up saying No Signal!

Anyone know a good supplier?

May I suggest a stop-gap solution?

If you find yourself, or think your going to be in that sort of situation on a minibus, offer the driver a tip if he keeps within the speed limit and both hands on the wheel for the whole journey.

If it's a shared minibus, get to know the other passengers.

if you all team up there's nothing he can do.

BTW speed limit in Thailand is 90 km/h on most roads 80 km/h on Pattaya ands Bkk expressways, 120 km/h on REAL motorways.

for larger vehicles there are lower limits, I've also seen signs on some entrances to highways and motorways that stipulate the speed limits for various types of vehicle.

[bulekee]

People’s thinking on road safety never ceases to amaze me.

If you are in hospital and a doctor tells you that you have to lose a leg, then most people will accept this...why? Because the man/woman is wearing a white coat and has a stethoscope. They see this as a symbol of authority or capability and “evidence of a 6 to 8 year training program.

But when it comes to things like Education or Road safety - where white coats are not in abundance, suddenly EVERYONE’s and expert!

Road Safety is a science - it needs to be read about researched and studied, you don’t make your mind up whilst you are driving about and what you see through your car windows.

Seeing is believing???? Sorry NO!

The personal witness -

“I saw a truck with......”

“I saw a bus that..... “

“I saw someone driving in a way that in my limited experience as a smug driver with an overinflated ego and irrational driving self esteem, I couldn’t interpret”

“I could have died......” (but you didn’t!)

One poster even likened Thai people to “monkeys” ........

So what? These observations (especially on their own) are WORTHLESS - or are they working on the theory that if you say something often enough, it must be true?

This kind of thing happens the world over.....

Time and again people post “I saw an accident” - NO YOU DIDN”T! you saw the aftermath of a road incident.

Then they have the audacity to come to conclusions, or rather make assumptions, about how it happened and furthermore, who’s to blame.... all based on observations made in the fleeting seconds it takes to drive past.

Come on! Even the most uneducated must realise that what you see is seldom reliable evidence; road safety involves collection and collation of data, scientific trials and testing and intelligent interpretation. Not nape-of-the-neck sound bites like banning everything and everyone or simplistic one-pill solutions.

Instead of reasoned analysis or suggestions or even observations we get a litany of personal anecdotes, misinterpreted observations and criticisms that seem based on a distasteful mix of ignorance and racial prejudice against Thai people.

And the message in this post is?

[wilcopops]

People’s thinking on road safety never ceases to amaze me.

If you are in hospital and a doctor tells you that you have to lose a leg, then most people will accept this...why? Because the man/woman is wearing a white coat and has a stethoscope. They see this as a symbol of authority or capability and “evidence of a 6 to 8 year training program.

But when it comes to things like Education or Road safety - where white coats are not in abundance, suddenly EVERYONE’s and expert!

Road Safety is a science - it needs to be read about researched and studied, you don’t make your mind up whilst you are driving about and what you see through your car windows.

Seeing is believing???? Sorry NO!

The personal witness -

“I saw a truck with......”

“I saw a bus that..... “

“I saw someone driving in a way that in my limited experience as a smug driver with an overinflated ego and irrational driving self esteem, I couldn’t interpret”

“I could have died......” (but you didn’t!)

One poster even likened Thai people to “monkeys” ........

So what? These observations (especially on their own) are WORTHLESS - or are they working on the theory that if you say something often enough, it must be true?

This kind of thing happens the world over.....

Time and again people post “I saw an accident” - NO YOU DIDN”T! you saw the aftermath of a road incident.

Then they have the audacity to come to conclusions, or rather make assumptions, about how it happened and furthermore, who’s to blame.... all based on observations made in the fleeting seconds it takes to drive past.

Come on! Even the most uneducated must realise that what you see is seldom reliable evidence; road safety involves collection and collation of data, scientific trials and testing and intelligent interpretation. Not nape-of-the-neck sound bites like banning everything and everyone or simplistic one-pill solutions.

Instead of reasoned analysis or suggestions or even observations we get a litany of personal anecdotes, misinterpreted observations and criticisms that seem based on a distasteful mix of ignorance and racial prejudice against Thai people.

And the message in this post is?

QED - "Instead of reasoned analysis or suggestions or even observations we get a litany of personal anecdotes, misinterpreted observations and criticisms that seem based on a distasteful mix of ignorance and racial prejudice against Thai people."

Edited March 26, 2014 by wilcopops

[seajae]

maybe if they made it law that these busses had to be design approved for safety instead of made at the local shed, brakes and safety equipment inspected regularly, speed limiters to stop the yahoos racing and of course drivers having to pass a driver safety course to be licensed to drive them( and leg chains so they cant run away) we might see some difference. Also on long hauls they need a second driver to ensure that one doesnt fall asleep at the wheel and to rotate at regular times to avoid this happening, at the moment half the busses would not pass a safety test and neither would the drivers, the brakes etc are simply never serviced and the other half of the drivers dont have licenses, makes it very dangerous.

[RubbaJohnny]

One occasion I took a mini van never again,lunatic driving which locals thought normal.I now have a large old truck with big bull bars and give way to anything larger regardless of whose road it should be.Defensive driving,assume there's likely someone overtaking on brow of the hill,theillegal u-turn,no lights drunk riders.I seldom drive outside city at night as a friend dicovered,when a drunk Thai dies throwing temselves under your car you pay.The farang is always wrong.

When the Hotel van scratched my car as I slep t the girad told the insurers he was asleep and the paint scrape from the hotel vehicle was magic.

Need to think outside the box ,while the solution is obviosly to ban males from driving as the ladies are barred in howdy Alabia.This would leave the streets to Falangs and the ladies, enlarging soi cowboy to the rd network.

Of course nothing so rational will occur more likely to ban hills or forget until the next tragedy.

[lucjoker]

the solution to the problem is very simple :

double the ticket prize !

The driver will not fall asleep ,the road will be good and the brakes will behave !

And Buddha will take care of this!

No more pombem !

[Larry001]

Unbelievable ignorance on behalf of officials. Its simple; train drivers to drive, police poor driving with huge fines or jail terms, police maintenance of buses. Simple solution which happens in most countries of educated people. But not Thailand, LOS - Make up your own mind what teh 'S' stands for. Its definitely not smiles.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[shadmo63]

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous. There were at least a dozen derailments last year. Fly!!

[shadmo63]

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous. There were at least a dozen derailments last year. Fly!!

Sure 'bout that?

Google "mh370-will-anybody-be-held-to-account.html"

You betcha! Mostly on the Northern line which they eventually closed down for a couple of months

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/train-derails-near-lamphun-station/

[SeaVisionBurma]

A flame, an off topic post, and a post containing profanity have all been removed.

[mok199]

i ranted sbout this 2 years ago...........................................................................................;these buses have destroyed the inner city's of pattaya,they sit ideling ,race down small soi's at 6000 rpm to avoid traffic jams,treat beach rd like it is sukumvit rd..thier goal is A TO B back to A..as fast as possible.....tour buses have increased 7 fold in 3 years...

[wilcopops]

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous. There were at least a dozen derailments last year. Fly!!

A moment's contemplation might reveal what nonsense that is. Do you seriously think that the number of people killed or injured in Thai railways comes anywhere near to the carnage on Thai roads?...or even buses alone?

[wilcopops]

There is another point that I don't think has been covered on this thread...that is the bus was in a convoy.

I can't understand why coveys are allowed at all ....yet the police see=m to be oblivious to the intrinsic dangers of driving in this way.

Quite apart from the disruption they cause to other road users there is the increased likelihood lack of caution by drivers in convoys as they take unnecessary risks to keep up with the rest of the vehicles.

it would appear that if this bus was in a convoy and trying to pass another vehicle it seems very likely that he was attempting to catch up with his colleagues.

In most countries convoys are illegal (but for a few exceptional circumstances) yet Thailand seems to actually condone this sort of thing.

[wilcopops]

The team will take into consideration many factors such as the condition of the road as well as the condition of the wreck of the bus in order to ascertain the actual cause of the accident.

If they handle it as the educational system, we might see a change in 30 years. The condition of the Wreck is pretty obvious. Why do people in let;s say Germany have to undergo serious physical, as well as psychological tests?

I drove a cab on weekends, when I studied at university to make some pocket money.Had to make many tests, talk to a Psychologist, had to make a city knowledge test, plus a certain amount of km without an accident to be allowed to drive passengers around.

Last rime when I drove home from Ubon to Sisaket, doing already 125 km/h a speeding double Decker on its way to Chiang Mai took over on the right side. I mean THE right side, with traffic coming from the other side. Is he still driving now? I'd assume so. None of the rear lights worked, which shocked me for a sec.

You've made a series of personal observations here.

Now - what are you suggesting should be done to help road safety in Thailand and why? Do you have any reasoning to back up any analysis you make?

I'd suggest you read my post again. Then live and drive cars and bigger bikes here for 13 years. Then work as an English teacher for ten. Kau tchai Boo?

I take it you are now aware that my personal experience in driving, Thailand and road safety far exceeds anything you have claimed?

[Beetlejuice]

Three issues here:

1. The drivers do not have enough basic training to drive and be in complete control of these public service vehicles.

2. The official Government standards required for drivers of these vehicles is too low.

3. Many of Thailand`s roads and highway infrastructure is not up to the standard`s required to accommodate the size and speeds of these vehicles.

If an official investigation into these tragic accidents is going to be undertaken, than I could show them what the major problems are in one afternoon.

[wilcopops]

Three issues here:

1. The drivers do not have enough basic training to drive and be in complete control of these public service vehicles.

2. The official Government standards required for drivers of these vehicles is too low.

3. Many of Thailand`s roads and highway infrastructure is not up to the standard`s required to accommodate the size and speeds of these vehicles.

If an official investigation into these tragic accidents is going to be undertaken, than I could show them what the major problems are in one afternoon.

Road safety has a basic set of tenets - the 5 "E"s.

these cover EVERY aspect of road safety.

1. Education

2. Enforcement

3. Engineering

4. Emergency

5. Evaluation

ASEAN has had a road safety program "Arrive Alive" and there are various organisations in Thailand that campaign for road safety, they are all aware of the problems facing Thailand as regards road safety. For over a decade Thailand with its “Road Safety Action Plan” has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s........

unfortunately of those in government few actually listen and eve fewer seem to have eve the most tenuous grasp of what is required.

[shadmo63]

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous. There were at least a dozen derailments last year. Fly!!

A moment's contemplation might reveal what nonsense that is. Do you seriously think that the number of people killed or injured in Thai railways comes anywhere near to the carnage on Thai roads?...or even buses alone?

Did I say anything at all about the number of people killed or injured? No Mr Nonsense I said the trains are just as dangerous as the roads.

Total deaths and injuries is not a measure of danger/safety, total deaths and injuries per km travelled is. My point is that on a person km travelled basis Thai railways are unsafe. There are only 4 major lines and they're averaging 3 or 4 derailments per line per year at least over the last couple of years. You do the math. On a person km travelled basis flying always comes out the safest way to travel, even in the west where road carnage is at a relative minimum. I am sure that would be the case, even including planes that just disappear. Why don't you contemplate that for a moment?

[Puwa]

About 12 years ago, a friend was killed and another badly mauled, in a 99 VIP bus crash on that very road. The cause was determined to be brake failure, and the survivors reported that the driver shouted out a warning before the bus left the road tumbled into a ravine.

[Rorri]

allan michaud, on 26 Mar 2014 - 11:45, said:

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Lieberdavid, on 26 Mar 2014 - 09:08, said:

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Thai trains are hardly much better, they seem to fall off the tracks on a daily basis.

True, but how many people are killed?

[Rorri]

Hawkup2000, on 26 Mar 2014 - 13:25, said:

What busses are refered to as "home made"? I always tought that those double-deckers, often with graffiti or some cartoon painted on them, were Volvos or Scanias.

Whatever badge they have is only in regards to the chassis, motor and running gear, it has nothing to do with the body.

[wilcopops]

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous. There were at least a dozen derailments last year. Fly!!

A moment's contemplation might reveal what nonsense that is. Do you seriously think that the number of people killed or injured in Thai railways comes anywhere near to the carnage on Thai roads?...or even buses alone?

Did I say anything at all about the number of people killed or injured? No Mr Nonsense I said the trains are just as dangerous as the roads.

Total deaths and injuries is not a measure of danger/safety, total deaths and injuries per km travelled is. My point is that on a person km travelled basis Thai railways are unsafe. There are only 4 major lines and they're averaging 3 or 4 derailments per line per year at least over the last couple of years. You do the math. On a person km travelled basis flying always comes out the safest way to travel, even in the west where road carnage is at a relative minimum. I am sure that would be the case, even including planes that just disappear. Why don't you contemplate that for a moment?

"Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous" - done the math - No you are wrong.

[shadmo63]

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous. There were at least a dozen derailments last year. Fly!!

A moment's contemplation might reveal what nonsense that is. Do you seriously think that the number of people killed or injured in Thai railways comes anywhere near to the carnage on Thai roads?...or even buses alone?

Did I say anything at all about the number of people killed or injured? No Mr Nonsense I said the trains are just as dangerous as the roads.

Total deaths and injuries is not a measure of danger/safety, total deaths and injuries per km travelled is. My point is that on a person km travelled basis Thai railways are unsafe. There are only 4 major lines and they're averaging 3 or 4 derailments per line per year at least over the last couple of years. You do the math. On a person km travelled basis flying always comes out the safest way to travel, even in the west where road carnage is at a relative minimum. I am sure that would be the case, even including planes that just disappear. Why don't you contemplate that for a moment?

"Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous" - done the math - No you are wrong.

What incredible arrogance!

[RtotheC]

Maybe they should just ban hilly roads. It would be about as effective as anything else they say they will do to fix the problem concerning road accidents.

[wilcopops]

These comments support further the argument to avoid buses all together and to take the train when circumstances permit,

Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous. There were at least a dozen derailments last year. Fly!!

A moment's contemplation might reveal what nonsense that is. Do you seriously think that the number of people killed or injured in Thai railways comes anywhere near to the carnage on Thai roads?...or even buses alone?

Did I say anything at all about the number of people killed or injured? No Mr Nonsense I said the trains are just as dangerous as the roads.

Total deaths and injuries is not a measure of danger/safety, total deaths and injuries per km travelled is. My point is that on a person km travelled basis Thai railways are unsafe. There are only 4 major lines and they're averaging 3 or 4 derailments per line per year at least over the last couple of years. You do the math. On a person km travelled basis flying always comes out the safest way to travel, even in the west where road carnage is at a relative minimum. I am sure that would be the case, even including planes that just disappear. Why don't you contemplate that for a moment?

"Mate, the trains in Thailand are just as dangerous" - done the math - No you are wrong.

What incredible arrogance!

I see you have no answer to the argument though.