NIDA Poll says majority wants reform ahead of election

[ginjag]

Another one of these by guns are polls.

How do they do it. Yesterday sukhumband failed because he wasn't outstanding, today 52% want reform, when Suthep hasn't even told the people exactly what his reform is yet.

1st question should be

Do you really understand what the proposed reforms are?

What percentage do?

5?, 10?

No one has a clue what these reforms are, so how can anyone support them?

A gold star for you sir.

This survey is completely and utterly bogus

Any reforms are better than none. we knew you would not agree as it is not in favour of PTP.

[Fat Haggis]

Because Suthep has been the only one holding the entire country to ransom screaming and shouting about reforms..

[Thai at Heart]

Another one of these by guns are polls.

How do they do it. Yesterday sukhumband failed because he wasn't outstanding, today 52% want reform, when Suthep hasn't even told the people exactly what his reform is yet.

1st question should be

Do you really understand what the proposed reforms are?

What percentage do?

5?, 10?

No one has a clue what these reforms are, so how can anyone support them?

A gold star for you sir.

This survey is completely and utterly bogus

Any reforms are better than none. we knew you would not agree as it is not in favour of PTP.

Huh?

You suspend democracy just to have "any reforms". Now I have heard some stupid things in Thai politial thinking but that is up there with, "well any subsidy has to be better than none". And yes, the current subsidy is a very stupid way to feed farmers more, and I believe that the idea of suspending democracy to gain reform will not work because what will be delivered will not have to be provably accountable to the people. It will be imposed in a haphazard way, and a bit like this consitution, which wasn't thought through properly, or debated, it will have massive loopholes that someone with a devious mind will get through.

The best way to create a self governing and self righting system is to have more democracy not less, more accountablity, not less. This is created by having representative elections, and representative decision making. This CANNOT be achieved by a self appointed committee of academics and "poo dee". They don't represent the people so it WILL NOT WORK. 5 years after the reform it will be time to do it again because they will have to unravel the mistakes of what was done. The way it can work is to have elections, parliaments, a free press, proper debate, and more elections. There is no other way to do it that will work in the long run. Reforming the police doesn't need the suspension of parliament, and the list goes on.

IN fact, i would add, that without changing the defamation law NO amount of reform will change anything. It is a cloak to protect thievery and corruption. They can all give up if that doesn't get changed. Any news on Suthep reforming that one. didn't think so, he's a pooyai so he sees the value in it.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[ginjag]

Because Suthep has been the only one holding the entire country to ransom screaming and shouting about reforms..

Will you please stop and ask why him and others have done this ??/

[The Deerhunter]

It's good that this poll indicates the people have had enough of the politicians lying and cheating and serving their own ends which has always been there but has now reached new levels under this government.

Now we need two things to happen. Suthep has to outline exactly what these reforms should be and Yingluck should present her party's plans and both should be debated in an open public forum.

If she is worthy of being PM she should at least be able to do this.

But she is NOT capable of an open and contradictory public debate. Dot.

Well in that case she shouldn't be the country's prime minister.

You wouldn't want a pilot who didn't know how to fly a plane.

That's what you have a co-pilot for

And he's drunk.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MunterHunter]

Because Suthep has been the only one holding the entire country to ransom screaming and shouting about reforms..

Hasnt there been a number of public debates (hosted by the PDRC lot) to garner and discuss what reforms are needed? I remember stuff like decentalized government etc

Seems to me, Suthep isnt driving the actual reforms forward, just the *need* for reforms.

[ginjag]

Any reforms are better than none. we knew you would not agree as it is not in favour of PTP.

Huh?

You suspend democracy just to have "any reforms". Now I have heard some stupid things in Thai politial thinking but that is up there with, "well any subsidy has to be better than none". And yes, the current subsidy is a very stupid way to feed farmers more, and I believe that the idea of suspending democracy to gain reform will not work because what will be delivered will not have to be provably accountable to the people. It will be imposed in a haphazard way, and a bit like this consitution, which wasn't thought through properly, or debated, it will have massive loopholes that someone with a devious mind will get through.

The best way to create a self governing and self righting system is to have more democracy not less, more accountablity, not less. This is created by having representative elections, and representative decision making. This CANNOT be achieved by a self appointed committee of academics and "poo dee". They don't represent the people so it WILL NOT WORK. 5 years after the reform it will be time to do it again because they will have to unravel the mistakes of what was done. The way it can work is to have elections, parliaments, a free press, proper debate, and more elections. There is no other way to do it that will work in the long run. Reforming the police doesn't need the suspension of parliament, and the list goes on.

IN fact, i would add, that without changing the defamation law NO amount of reform will change anything. It is a cloak to protect thievery and corruption. They can all give up if that doesn't get changed. Any news on Suthep reforming that one. didn't think so, he's a pooyai so he sees the value in it.

Put your party back and we will get the opposite, it will be a closed shop.

Can you actually see a free press??? parliamentary debates--Weekly question time ???? So if it doesn't need a suspension of government then WHY haven't the police been brought to heel--2+ years and what.

Why hasn't there been accountability ??? accounts for government work ???

You are suggesting the impossible being blinded to believe PTP will do the reforms it's self.

Who suspended democracy ??? the PM to quickly regain control and push through any other money making scheme it wanted and Amnesty for HIM ---sorry for all.

[The Deerhunter]

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NIDA is well-know as a yellow agency. Nothing to see here

The PTP is well-known as a Dubai (or Montenegro?) agency.

And criminally funded with stolen money, to boot.

[The Deerhunter]

Because Suthep has been the only one holding the entire country to ransom screaming and shouting about reforms..

That's rich. Ransom usually involves taking or demanding money with menaces. Who has been "taking" the taxpayers (and the farmers' money too, until proven otherwise, except they wont show any figures) & sending it offshore. Hint. Not Suthep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[473geo]

The results of this poll are striking, and if succeeding polls confirm this trend, then this will be something that Pheu Thai will be increasingly unable to ignore. 52 % wanting reform before election is a pretty clear result for any poll. And 72 % fearing another election would simply replicate the experience of the last one is an even clearer result. These public views should not surprise. Abhisit's suggestion of a referendum asking the public to provide a green light on reform discussions would likely be welcomed by the public. If this poll is any indication, it would pass.

I wonder why they did not ask:

Do you support the reform proposals suggested by PDRC?

There are many areas where reform is required from bottom up to top down, only those never interested in the situation of the country would perhaps not have the vision to see reform required somewhere!

An open leading question, the answer yes should be a big majority, so what is holding the others back?

Perhaps the suggestion of unelected representatives making the decision as to where the 'reforms' are required!

Edited March 26, 2014 by 473geo

[NCFC]

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It's good that this poll indicates the people have had enough of the politicians lying and cheating and serving their own ends which has always been there but has now reached new levels under this government.

Now we need two things to happen. Suthep has to outline exactly what these reforms should be and they must be debated in an open public forum by the two leaders.

If she is worthy of being PM she should at least be able to do this.

The big stumbling block is the PTP they can not be trusted, although Suthep has now made he's bed , he must lie in it, so the first thing PTP will do if they win an election , will be gunning for all the protest leaders, DSI will have a field day, Suthep now has no choice but to take the hard line he is taking. Reform first.

You make it sound like first item on the reform agenda - amnesty for Suthep.

Of course Suthep won't be looking to get those murder charges dropped, will he??

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed as well as the replies.

[ddavidovsky]

Utterly depressing and barely credible, the way the right-wing powers are scheming in organised and coordinated fashion with the explicit, unmitigated and comprehensive aim of undermining the democratic constitution of the nation.

Perhaps even more depressing and incredible are the westerners on this forum who, despite their presumably greater familiarity with history and assuredly greater exposure to critical thinking, support these calamitous and retrograde political machinations. By the way, am I the only one who finds these people so hard to fathom (given their inability to explain themselves beyond anti-Thaksin ranting), that it's easier to believe they are actually Thais posturing as westerners for propaganda purposes?

[NCFC]

Another one of these by guns are polls.

How do they do it. Yesterday sukhumband failed because he wasn't outstanding, today 52% want reform, when Suthep hasn't even told the people exactly what his reform is yet.

1st question should be

Do you really understand what the proposed reforms are?

What percentage do?

5?, 10?

No one has a clue what these reforms are, so how can anyone support them?

A gold star for you sir.

This survey is completely and utterly bogus

Even Suthep hasn't been told what the reforms are going to be

[Fat Haggis]

Because Suthep has been the only one holding the entire country to ransom screaming and shouting about reforms..

Will you please stop and ask why him and others have done this ??/

Easy..under the current status, they'd never ever again get back into a position of authority in which to bend the entire nation over and ram one right up their keesters

Dude, honest, I'm all for reforms too, well actually personally, like most here the reforms are for the Thai people, not for the Farangs, unless a little bit further down the line I decide to go the PR route, which I'm pretty sure 90% of the blokes here who keep harping on about there has to be reforms, when it doesn't even effect them, but sure, sounds good to jump on the bandwagon and show some solidarity with what is still possibly a minority of the population.

All kidding aside, why when they had the ability when they ousted Thaksin before, didn't they start takling reformation then?

Nobody isn't doubting that the current caretaker/former Government have seriously acted with gross incompetence, but vote them out, it's really that simple, circumventing the standard protocols and procedures just smacks of the inability to come to terms that the majority of the country think you're just a-holes, sway their opinions and get the die hard PTP/UDD followers to change their minds, and you'll possibly see a shift for the better, but sorry, if you say a big F-You to those people, well, you'll reap what you sow..

I'm pretty sure we've all worked for a boss that was all about himself and didn't give a toss about other peoples opinions, but you didn't get up and walk out, you just plodded on wishing that he just died and would be replaced by one of your mates who would be more sympathetic to your causes.. Yeah been there done that too, and have these mates turn around and crap all over everyone else trying to look good, and feathering their own next and making their CV's look good..

Politics is like that, no matter what country you live in, Thai politics is all about cliques and families, it's never going to change, but when it does, let the people decide.

[ginjag]

Because Suthep has been the only one holding the entire country to ransom screaming and shouting about reforms..

Will you please stop and ask why him and others have done this ??/

Easy..under the current status, they'd never ever again get back into a position of authority in which to bend the entire nation over and ram one right up their keesters

Dude, honest, I'm all for reforms too, well actually personally, like most here the reforms are for the Thai people, not for the Farangs, unless a little bit further down the line I decide to go the PR route, which I'm pretty sure 90% of the blokes here who keep harping on about there has to be reforms, when it doesn't even effect them, but sure, sounds good to jump on the bandwagon and show some solidarity with what is still possibly a minority of the population.

All kidding aside, why when they had the ability when they ousted Thaksin before, didn't they start takling reformation then?

Nobody isn't doubting that the current caretaker/former Government have seriously acted with gross incompetence, but vote them out, it's really that simple, circumventing the standard protocols and procedures just smacks of the inability to come to terms that the majority of the country think you're just a-holes, sway their opinions and get the die hard PTP/UDD followers to change their minds, and you'll possibly see a shift for the better, but sorry, if you say a big F-You to those people, well, you'll reap what you sow..

I'm pretty sure we've all worked for a boss that was all about himself and didn't give a toss about other peoples opinions, but you didn't get up and walk out, you just plodded on wishing that he just died and would be replaced by one of your mates who would be more sympathetic to your causes.. Yeah been there done that too, and have these mates turn around and crap all over everyone else trying to look good, and feathering their own next and making their CV's look good..

Politics is like that, no matter what country you live in, Thai politics is all about cliques and families, it's never going to change, but when it does, let the people decide.

We seem to agree on most of the principles, where we fail is to realize that to my mind at this time an election cannot be held. even on paper it looks democratic.

Reforms are for Thailand, I am a no one, who posts what I think is wrong. To not hold elections is wrong, but this is not about if the government are wrong.

This s the time and the only time Thailand has the chance to get rid of the rif raf. How they do it is any ones guess but the chance is there.

[HUAHIN62]

Another Bangkok based poll (troll), that only the steeple will believe. For everyone that believe this poll, bring on an election, referendum or any other legal democratic test of what the people want and the majority will speak like they did for the last 20 years. They will say again we don't trust the Dems and will choose the PTP again. Not because they love the party or trust them or because their votes are "bought" but because they dont have an alternative. Both sides are presently playing a winner takes all game and the people are the losers. Read the opinion piece in the Bangkok post today to see a good article about the present situation and possible solution.

[JAG]

Who or what is NIDA? Majority wants to know.

The majority are not well enough educated to know, so they don't need to know!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Fat Haggis]

Because Suthep has been the only one holding the entire country to ransom screaming and shouting about reforms..

That's rich. Ransom usually involves taking or demanding money with menaces. Who has been "taking" the taxpayers (and the farmers' money too, until proven otherwise, except they wont show any figures) & sending it offshore. Hint. Not Suthep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a figure of speech

[rickirs]

No! Why does NIDA keep repeating these kinds of misleading statements? It is a majority of those 1,255 people who were POLLED by NIDA or about 658 people who wanted to see national reform first. That hardly compares to the 49 million eligible voters! If Thailand, by whatever unelected committee(s) is/are going to make sweeping reform policy based on less than 0.001% of the eligible voters, reforms will never be accepted in a democratic society. And maybe that is the justification for the formation of a dictatorship.

Use of national referendums have been very useful tools by many democratic countries for gauging and gaining public support for major changes to constitutions, laws, and government administrative procedures. Why aren't referendums being used to gauge public intent? The problem for the PDRC is that in a referendum vote it would be held accountable to the general public to explain its opposition to populist policies, to one-man one vote democracy, to unelected public officials, etc. and I don't think it can stand up to that kind of transparency while it condemns the current administration for lack of transparency.

[MunterHunter]

No! Why does NIDA keep repeating these kinds of misleading statements? It is a majority of those 1,255 people who were POLLED by NIDA or about 658 people who wanted to see national reform first. That hardly compares to the 49 million eligible voters! If Thailand, by whatever unelected committee(s) is/are going to make sweeping reform policy based on less than 0.001% of the eligible voters, reforms will never be accepted in a democratic society. And maybe that is the justification for the formation of a dictatorship.

Use of national referendums have been very useful tools by many democratic countries for gauging and gaining public support for major changes to constitutions, laws, and government administrative procedures. Why aren't referendums being used to gauge public intent? The problem for the PDRC is that in a referendum vote it would be held accountable to the general public to explain its opposition to populist policies, to one-man one vote democracy, to unelected public officials, etc. and I don't think it can stand up to that kind of transparency while it condemns the current administration for lack of transparency.

So the same sceptisim should be used for all polls favouring the Red side of the political divide.

I agree, national referendum on 'how to' move forward is needed, but probably wont happen as PTP dont want the whole country to speak

[whybother]

No! Why does NIDA keep repeating these kinds of misleading statements? It is a majority of those 1,255 people who were POLLED by NIDA or about 658 people who wanted to see national reform first. That hardly compares to the 49 million eligible voters! If Thailand, by whatever unelected committee(s) is/are going to make sweeping reform policy based on less than 0.001% of the eligible voters, reforms will never be accepted in a democratic society. And maybe that is the justification for the formation of a dictatorship.

Use of national referendums have been very useful tools by many democratic countries for gauging and gaining public support for major changes to constitutions, laws, and government administrative procedures. Why aren't referendums being used to gauge public intent? The problem for the PDRC is that in a referendum vote it would be held accountable to the general public to explain its opposition to populist policies, to one-man one vote democracy, to unelected public officials, etc. and I don't think it can stand up to that kind of transparency while it condemns the current administration for lack of transparency.

You should do some research about statistics.

If you go by your statements, even an election or referendum won't give a true indication of what the majority wants, given that only 30 million eligible voters actually vote.

[khunken]

No! Why does NIDA keep repeating these kinds of misleading statements? It is a majority of those 1,255 people who were POLLED by NIDA or about 658 people who wanted to see national reform first. That hardly compares to the 49 million eligible voters! If Thailand, by whatever unelected committee(s) is/are going to make sweeping reform policy based on less than 0.001% of the eligible voters, reforms will never be accepted in a democratic society. And maybe that is the justification for the formation of a dictatorship.

Use of national referendums have been very useful tools by many democratic countries for gauging and gaining public support for major changes to constitutions, laws, and government administrative procedures. Why aren't referendums being used to gauge public intent? The problem for the PDRC is that in a referendum vote it would be held accountable to the general public to explain its opposition to populist policies, to one-man one vote democracy, to unelected public officials, etc. and I don't think it can stand up to that kind of transparency while it condemns the current administration for lack of transparency.

So the same sceptisim should be used for all polls favouring the Red side of the political divide.

I agree, national referendum on 'how to' move forward is needed, but probably wont happen as PTP dont want the whole country to speak

Yes and that's a major part of the problem.

Contrary to what some posters (who should know better) have said here, Suthep has advocated a number of reforms that enhance democracy and decentralisation of power. But because they have come from Suthep - who is portrayed anything from Mussolini to Genghis Khan - they are deemed unacceptable.

The first step is for Yingluck to accept - without any iffs or buts - that reform is needed. The second step is for YL & Suthep to discuss the formation of a reform council/committee/commission. Parallel to the second step is organising a referendum, asking the population do they want reform first, election first or both in parallel.

The organisation to carry out reforms can be formed along the lines of the 1997 constitution-writing group.

[Theoutsider]

Why don't they put it to a vote....oh wait

[gabruce]

"It said the answer was that 52.51% wanted to see national reform first"

That's what the majority wants.........that's what will be done.

I appreciate your sense of humour. Thanks!

[MunterHunter]

No! Why does NIDA keep repeating these kinds of misleading statements? It is a majority of those 1,255 people who were POLLED by NIDA or about 658 people who wanted to see national reform first. That hardly compares to the 49 million eligible voters! If Thailand, by whatever unelected committee(s) is/are going to make sweeping reform policy based on less than 0.001% of the eligible voters, reforms will never be accepted in a democratic society. And maybe that is the justification for the formation of a dictatorship.

Use of national referendums have been very useful tools by many democratic countries for gauging and gaining public support for major changes to constitutions, laws, and government administrative procedures. Why aren't referendums being used to gauge public intent? The problem for the PDRC is that in a referendum vote it would be held accountable to the general public to explain its opposition to populist policies, to one-man one vote democracy, to unelected public officials, etc. and I don't think it can stand up to that kind of transparency while it condemns the current administration for lack of transparency.

So the same sceptisim should be used for all polls favouring the Red side of the political divide.

I agree, national referendum on 'how to' move forward is needed, but probably wont happen as PTP dont want the whole country to speak

Yes and that's a major part of the problem.

Contrary to what some posters (who should know better) have said here, Suthep has advocated a number of reforms that enhance democracy and decentralisation of power. But because they have come from Suthep - who is portrayed anything from Mussolini to Genghis Khan - they are deemed unacceptable.

The first step is for Yingluck to accept - without any iffs or buts - that reform is needed. The second step is for YL & Suthep to discuss the formation of a reform council/committee/commission. Parallel to the second step is organising a referendum, asking the population do they want reform first, election first or both in parallel.

The organisation to carry out reforms can be formed along the lines of the 1997 constitution-writing group.

Sounds good, but sadly i cant see either side agreeing to that.

[Fat Haggis]

If neither side agree to an election or a referendum, then the only option is a Coup of some sort, and that's not going to sit well for the losing side, and the rift and divide between the minority, and yes, it still is a minority as everyone is too scared to take a leap of faith and let the electorate speak, and the Majority will never be healed.

[JamesDean3]

Majority Rules. Let there be Reform...

[MunterHunter]

If neither side agree to an election or a referendum, then the only option is a Coup of some sort, and that's not going to sit well for the losing side, and the rift and divide between the minority, and yes, it still is a minority as everyone is too scared to take a leap of faith and let the electorate speak, and the Majority will never be healed.

I agree with your point... i do wonder how the country will get itself out of this mess...

[ginjag]

If neither side agree to an election or a referendum, then the only option is a Coup of some sort, and that's not going to sit well for the losing side, and the rift and divide between the minority, and yes, it still is a minority as everyone is too scared to take a leap of faith and let the electorate speak, and the Majority will never be healed.

Big % of Thai have no idea what the truth is regarding government antics, where are they going to learn the truth.?? These are the poor people of Issan.

They see no live debate with the P.M. answering awkward questions---no feedback there.

They see little in the Thai papers and in Issan how many people in rural areas buy a paper ??? if they did they would never read much about the wrongs.

They see very little on TV. if anything is said strongly against the government they have a visit.

Most of the rural areas and controlled by the village--either RED or dominated by the head man, little opportunity to speak up.

The big protests however you dislike them were to bring about and to light the immoral activities of government. unless this happened no rural voter would ever know the score.

This is why an election is no way forward, UNTIL the courts also bring to light the offenders WHOEVER THEY MAY BE.