French resort manager, Ukrainian tour guide nabbed in work permit raids

[Roel]

The whole idea of reporting all hotel guests with full name and passport numbers to immigration on a daily basis is to be able to trace people when necessary for whatever reason. Immigration probably went to confront him for not reporting and whilst doing so found out he could not produce a work permit. The questions remains why did he not have one being a resort manager. Assuming the resort is a properly registered Thai company paying taxes and with sufficient registered capital and many Thai staff there should be no obstacle for him to obtain a work permit.

The good thing here is that the officials not asked him to hand over 30,000 Baht to sort out the whole thing and we would never have heard anything about it.

Anticipating the reply: "maybe they did but he didn't want to pay". Unlikely I think.

[laobali]

would love to know how many Thais work abroad illegally .... I know a lot in Germany already

two wongs don't make a white.

[NamKangMan]

would love to know how many Thais work abroad illegally .... I know a lot in Germany already

Sorry, but this is not about how many Thais are working illegally in Germany and elsewhere..

Once they get caught, they'll also be send back where they came from. There are many ways to be legal, paying taxes, giving Thai nationals a job here.

I volunteered a Thai woman who became a tourist guide and had to study hard to be where she is now.

Why should foreigners have it easier than Thais. This is Thailand. Germany is Deutschland.-

"I volunteered a Thai woman who became a tourist guide and had to study hard to be where she is now." - so, she speaks fluent Russian, does she?

[khunpa]

The French guy made two mistakes...

1) No work permit.

2) No "friends" to make the problem go away, which with a donation to the police, would have solved it

But there are so many things that could have led to this. Like the GF could have wanted to get rid of him or he simply pissed off a guest at the resort.

Work Permit or not, you can very easy get into trouble and lose it all here in Thailand. All it takes is you to piss off the wrong Thai.

Just do not invest your money here and you have no risks.

[Phuketboy]

Good job, well done. This time it was the work permit, but so many people here on incorrect visas so they can stay along with working without a work permit and massive overstays. I say once caught kick them out with a never to return stamp.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Phuketboy

[Carrerakiss]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

I think the main thing this particular farang did wrong was to alow a beaten, bruised foreign woman be held captive in one of his resort rooms. Possibly bad luck, possibly he just wasn't careful enough about the type of people he allowed to stay, but in any case he's part of the fall out from a bigger crime perpetrated by someone else

[Wombat6]

“In addition to being charged for working without a work permit, Mr Seigneurin was charged for not filing a list of guests currently staying at the resort with Phuket Immigration, which in this case would have included Ms Strizheus,” Lt Col Tianchai said.

So he's charged both with working illegally and not doing his job properly?

There is probably more to it than that.

Many of these people are members of criminal gangs, in to all sorts of dubious activities in Phuket. I also wonder if this guy has false documents and a false passport? Because he has more of a Eastern European appearance than French and he certainly looks a lot older than 55. More like 65 I would say.

The police should also arrest the Thais that are fronting these undesirables..

My goodness..!! you are a fountain of information....sadly, you know buggar all...lots of theories though. Please come back to us when you know something factual.

[chrisinth]

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Quote

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

"The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand"

Sorry, I would beg to differ. If anyone follows the rules, abides by the law, there is every means of protection here. In fact, the labour laws in Thailand (which protect both Thai & Falang if legal) is probably on par if not better than my home country..............

If the story above is true that the bar owner was deported for sitting and talking only, then IMHO, that is not the entire story. 'My wife' ran a bar/restaurant here for 12 years and in those 4.380 or so days that I sat there, there was never a problem.

At the same time, I was/am fully employed in 'proper' work, hence the knowledge/understanding of the Thai labour laws.

[elzach]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

Good points. So we live in a "joke" country.

Despite that, some of us insist on marrying here, having businesses here, investments etc. So then the joke is on the "some of us"?

[gandalf12]

Why would anyone on this forum consider it ok to work without a valid work permit? No country will let you work unless you have the approved documentation

[watso63]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

Interesting and a good warning to those looking to run a business. It seems the best policy would be to stay away from the place and trust Thai nationals to run everything or just front up the money and hope you don't get ripped off. Nice.

[elzach]

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Quote

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

"The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand"

Sorry, I would beg to differ. If anyone follows the rules, abides by the law, there is every means of protection here. In fact, the labour laws in Thailand (which protect both Thai & Falang if legal) is probably on par if not better than my home country..............

If the story above is true that the bar owner was deported for sitting and talking only, then IMHO, that is not the entire story. 'My wife' ran a bar/restaurant here for 12 years and in those 4.380 or so days that I sat there, there was never a problem.

At the same time, I was/am fully employed in 'proper' work, hence the knowledge/understanding of the Thai labour laws.

1. "the labour laws in Thailand (which protect both Thai & Falang if legal) is probably on par if not better than my home country"....what's your home country?

2. "...there is every means of protection here"....you mean get a Thai lawyer who will then pay the police more than the other guy? Lord.

Edited March 27, 2014 by elzach

[stevenl]

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Quote

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

"The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand"

Sorry, I would beg to differ. If anyone follows the rules, abides by the law, there is every means of protection here. In fact, the labour laws in Thailand (which protect both Thai & Falang if legal) is probably on par if not better than my home country..............

If the story above is true that the bar owner was deported for sitting and talking only, then IMHO, that is not the entire story. 'My wife' ran a bar/restaurant here for 12 years and in those 4.380 or so days that I sat there, there was never a problem.

At the same time, I was/am fully employed in 'proper' work, hence the knowledge/understanding of the Thai labour laws.

1. "the labour laws in Thailand (which protect both Thai & Falang if legal) is probably on par if not better than my home country"....what's your home country?

2. "...there is every means of protection here"....you mean get a Thai lawyer who will then pay the police more than the other guy? Lord.

Simply be legal, no need at all to pay the police.

[overherebc]

Did Inspector Clouseau tip off the local Bibs about this French national? You know, being French and all................

yes,

It was done in a Rit of fealous jage

[khunpa]

To the people who thinks there is protection under the law here...

I am sorry to say, but if you truly believe that then you are very wrong.

This is a place where the rich get off for doing crimes (even murder) and the poor goes to prison simply because they can not pay.

The is a country ruled by corruption, power and money - not law!

If you believe something else, then you are simply wrong.

Edited March 27, 2014 by khunpa

[Stan7444]

Should be escape goat since there was a warrant issued on one of them. Take your risk and sometime have to pay the price. In my experience, although it is illegal to do so, most of the hotels in Phuket do not report a list of their guests to the police and the police do not enforce this happening, except selectively as in the case of this Frenchman since it suits their purpose.

[larsjohnsson]

Sounds fine to me. I don't want tourists working illegally in my country either.

Fine with me also. Especially when many brag about doing it....

[onni4me]

Yep, simply be leagal meaning...

1. Pay for work visa (not just the business you own..) and endure the bureaucratic nightmare or hire a lawyer to "sort it out".

2. For every foreigner the company must hire several Thais (was it 1:4 or 1:5 can't remember?) and pay them salary etc. I suppose nowadays 8000 Baht might cut it 8000 x 4 = 32000 Baht a month to pay for YOUR priviledge of working.

3. Bribes to maintain the status quo until some &lt;deleted&gt; Thai or foreigner has some conflicting intrests in your property.

4. And all the above means absolutely nothing if you don't have the right connections and right connections cost anyway.

The point that all these obey-the-law-or-go-away people miss is that even one has been here decades, dotted all i's and soforth, we have no rights even we are married with children. This will eventually lead to foreigners - those with brains - to look elesewhere for more easy pastures and to the decline of this corrupt and greedy country. Some signs are already showing themselves - when everything was going good for Thais we were just some tourists and just Farang, now when things are getting difficult we are somehow missed since the foreign currency wasn't that bad after all.

Thais and Thailand hasn't moved to this millennium yet with it's laws and regulations. They still remind me of old Soviet Russia where they always loved all kind of paperwork and in the end it could not be processed without a hefty tea money.

I see Thailands future in ten to fifteen years very bleak indeed. Maybe I am not alone? I hope for the best since got my partner and family here but am preparing to move on if things go very bad.

[jacko45k]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

I think the main thing this particular farang did wrong was to alow a beaten, bruised foreign woman be held captive in one of his resort rooms. Possibly bad luck, possibly he just wasn't careful enough about the type of people he allowed to stay, but in any case he's part of the fall out from a bigger crime perpetrated by someone else

Yes, nearly forgot, how are we doing on that lesser related matter?

[larsjohnsson]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

How could this happen to most of us? Most of us are not working without a work permit

[stevenl]

Yep, simply be leagal meaning...

1. Pay for work visa (not just the business you own..) and endure the bureaucratic nightmare or hire a lawyer to "sort it out".

2. For every foreigner the company must hire several Thais (was it 1:4 or 1:5 can't remember?) and pay them salary etc. I suppose nowadays 8000 Baht might cut it 8000 x 4 = 32000 Baht a month to pay for YOUR priviledge of working.

3. Bribes to maintain the status quo until some <deleted> Thai or foreigner has some conflicting intrests in your property.

4. And all the above means absolutely nothing if you don't have the right connections and right connections cost anyway.

<snip>

1. Yes, of course, to be legal you need the correct visas and a workpermit. And no, this is no bureaucratic nightmare at all.

2. 4 Thai per workpermit. Yes, if you want to make money in Thailand you also have to help the Thais.

3. No, nonsense.

4. No, nonsense.

[MMarlow]

what a stupid comment.

If you want to work get a visa. end of story

What a stupid comment, if you want to work get a work permit. End of story.

[soalbundy]

Of course he gets arrested. He was caught working illegally. Yes, maybe he was unlucky these thugs ended up at his place, so what? He was working illegally, the police really did not have a choice.

Yes,another danger to Thailand apprehended,who knows what other terrible mischief he would have got up to if allowed to work for his living.

[larsjohnsson]

To the people who thinks there is protection under the law here...

I am sorry to say, but if you truly believe that then you are very wrong.

This is a place where the rich get off for doing crimes (even murder) and the poor goes to prison simply because they can not pay.

The is a country ruled by corruption, power and money - not law!

If you believe something else, then you are simply wrong.

In what country doesn't the rich get off when doing crimes ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the distinction here is between being an employee of some Thai or foreign company vs. trying to run/own your own business.

Being an employee of a legit company seems to be no problem, provided you comply with the proper visa and work permit issues, which a legitimate employee shouldn't have any problem with.

But the bigger problems seems to arise when some farang wants to run their own business. Then that's where issues like bribes and tea money, jealous Thai competitors and/or partners, any aggrieved locals, spouses or GFs, etc etc. have the potential to rear their ugly heads. Then add to that trying to operate such a business in places rife with foreign and local organized crime networks, and it can get very messy very fast.

I know farangs do own and operate their own businesses here. But given the environment, I often wonder just how they manage to do it.

Edited March 27, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mdmayes]

Where is the finger pointing? I can't tell who the criminal in the picture without the finger pointing.

[bander]

What a joke, BIB fails to catch the Russian kidnappers so instead Immigration officers arrest the French resort owner to show that Thais is more clever than farangs, face saved..... again

[NamKangMan]

Where is the finger pointing? I can't tell who the criminal in the picture without the finger pointing.

This photo could easily be of a farang donating some white shirts to Phuket Immigration Officers.

[onni4me]

1. Yes, of course, to be legal you need the correct visas and a workpermit. And no, this is no bureaucratic nightmare at all.

2. 4 Thai per workpermit. Yes, if you want to make money in Thailand you also have to help the Thais.

3. No, nonsense.

4. No, nonsense.

I don't know how long you've been here but I have seen evidence of quite the opposite to say the least.

I was once working for a company in Bangkok that is half government, half private meaning that the top executives are chosen politically, not necessarily based on their capabilities. I got my working order from an Asian co-operation organisation that Thailand is part of and the salary was paid by this Bangkok based company. I asked through email before arriving whether I needed a work permit...no answer...date was closing so sent another request...no answer...called a Thai colleague and he returned the call saying that they don't want to process the WP because it would give me chance to stay in the country longer...&lt;deleted&gt;?! So just sent an email saying that I suppose everything is okay then...stayed and worked for company involving government with no work permit for a month...talk about obeying the law...

What comes to your ridiculous claim that I should run a company to "help Thais" I don't agree. If I want to help people, I do it when and how I like. Not like some forced thing.

You may think that this is an easy country to run a business. Try to say that when you actually run a successful business and someone notices it. That's when the real problems start. I've been doing different things here for the last 12 years or so and can tell you it isn't easy. Love my work, hate the problems related to it.

If you think this is a country following the strict rule of law (they do when it suits them) then you are the one that is non-sensical.

[sirchai]

would love to know how many Thais work abroad illegally .... I know a lot in Germany already

Sorry, but this is not about how many Thais are working illegally in Germany and elsewhere..

Once they get caught, they'll also be send back where they came from. There are many ways to be legal, paying taxes, giving Thai nationals a job here.

I volunteered a Thai woman who became a tourist guide and had to study hard to be where she is now.

Why should foreigners have it easier than Thais. This is Thailand. Germany is Deutschland.-

"I volunteered a Thai woman who became a tourist guide and had to study hard to be where she is now." - so, she speaks fluent Russian, does she?

She's Thai and speaks a very good English, intermediate German and works for the tourist police. Please keep your junk at home. Thanks.