Leaving Thailand for China, here is why

[phanangpete]

Good riddance.

1. No ones going to miss your 50+ year old complaining ass.

2. Your moving to china because you knows the Thai people are on to the foreigners game. And now want to run somewhere else where they are more clueless and accepting.

3. Why shouldn't the cost of living go up? You have no problem making a ton of money where you come from, but complain when spending it on Thai products and feeding Thai family's with that money.

4. You said it in your last sentence, you'll be back for a "prostitute run". Why? Not enough Chinese girls you can have bastard kids with?

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Hes not in his fifties <deleted> ,read what he said about a friend arriving on hols and wanting to club it so he went with him and says hes a little older . That would make me think thirties !

Wakey Wakey !

[yermanee]

Although OP has some valid points, he completely lost me with quote Issaan <deleted>, issaan prostitutes unquote.

Racism in its purest form.

Yermanee

[rayongchelsea]

I have lived here 30 years, it has deteriorated beyond recognition.

It is an imperfect place, but where isn't.

I have made a lot of money here,Thailand has given me a great deal.

I care very little now for thai culture. The face, Mai pen rai, sanuk, cheap sex, drugs,partyville,all very appealing when you first step ashore here which I did in 1978, but when you have a family, have a business, have to deal with corruption,have dealings which go beyond just living on a moo baan with the wife ( as many seem to do here), you see another side, a side where lying is deemed ok, where accountability is non existant,where honesty is not foremost, petty theft is rife, mental issues afflict many..

It is my home. Thais are a nice people..but it just wears you out at times..

China ain't the answer..

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[fletchsmile]

A fair bit of truth in OP s post I can relate to.

Yes Thailand has been changing and not always for the better.

On the other hand seems like OP hasn t changed his life much and just got jaded of more of the same.

I left Thailand after about 7 years and could relate to much of what is wriiten. I took my Thai girlfriend with me tho then we got married. Then returned here after another posting or two outside Thailand.

Getting married and having kids is a life changer. On the whole you re more accepted by society especially when they see you as a family with kids which gives the impression that perhaps you re not one of the ecpats referred to in OPs post.

I do think OP is overestimating the difference in China. It will be a change but not necessarily the greener grass.

The most significant changes will be in OP himself rather than country he is in.

Cheers

Fletch

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[draftvader]

To China? Seriously? Good luck. Plenty of points that have already been made on here are spot on. Basically for every point you make against Thailand there is a stronger, more motivated, version in China. You are right, they do think more....that just won't be in your favour. There really is no "live and let live" that I enjoy with 99.99% of my interactions with the Thais.

Start with queuing. You think the Thais don't know how to queue because 1 in 100 ignores you and walks in front or because 1 in 200 will physically push. China is unreal.

Just an example.

Of all the countries I have been to (quite a few) China is the bottom of my "would like to live" list. Economic opportunity? Apart from the accounting lies that are being found out that are forcing BIG Western business out of Thailand, the lying leadership (that would make Thailand's look like toddlers) and the contracting economy the big question is how big are you? The USA still has the largest economy in the world. The UK is the 6th largest. Are you saying that living in either of those wouldn't offer you significant opportunities WITH legal safe-guards? Are these economies not enough for you? Business in China won't play by the rules so you are running a MUCH higher risk. I would say that starting a business in the UK exporting to China would be a more realistic business opportunity if you want to be involved in China due to the middle and upper class impression of the quality of UK goods (because they are actually made to rigorous standards).

As more and more Western economies grow wise to the lies (CE marking being "reassigned" as "China Export" with a minimal space difference being the only thing to differentiate) the less export market that China will have and the more that their "new monied" workforce will buy imported goods. Aston Martin just pulled all manufacturing from China after their accelerator pedals were discovered to have been made with a fake plastic (they requested DuPont) that has caused them to recall nearly 37,000 cars!!!! Just a few years ago Apple pulled iPhone production. The list will continue to grow.

In short China is not what you seem to think it is. Good luck with it.

[kimbathewhitelion]

I am actually a long time reader of TV but over the years I have refrained from posting mainly because of the negative thai bashing people on here.

Then of Friday I was talking to a mate about this forum and I asked why do expats that live in Thailand just bag the the place and it's people and yet still stay there?

We'll he said those people with such attitudes will never be happy anywhere on earth it's just in their DNA basically they are just narks and lead a miserable life and want other people to come down to their level.

You and I won't call you sir are a typical example of the negative farangs that should have never stayed in the first place.

So go and take your negative thai bashing views and go and inflict your racist negative views on the Chinese .

Their loss thai lands gain.

And I hope the doors hits you on the way out!

So indeed you are "The Stuttering Parrot" having to use the old "friend says" term in order to express yourself which by the way is a sign of insecurity. Guessing your also not a Thailand resident, otherwise you would know most people who live in Thailand are not expats and also many (i.e. foreigners, case your confused) aren't even Farangs.

The OP is a positive Post, an expression or opinion set straight. What's the point of you being here if all you want do is Bash everyone else?

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[kimbathewhitelion]

Don't need to read the novel to know if you can then all the better. China has extensive international business, an absolutely beautiful country, excellent food & among the most beautiful women in the world. Forever love China...except their exported electronics, clothing, etc., exports asides, an excellent choice for life.

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Yes, they probably have the best Smog also

And Thailand is better? Mmmmmm, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, sorry the entire north, oh yeah then there's Bangkok! Thailand doesn't just hold back with air pollution, go diving off Krabi, they do worse to the ocean - that fish you buy at the market - then to the air you breathe.

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[Ned]

Thais don't much seem to like their fellow countrymen nowadays. Can't expect them to think much of foreigners.

[arthurwait]

Enjoy China and even more corruption, freelancers and even more an insular society.

But you answered your own question hang around in places that only freelancers go and you will only meet people with their morals, intelligence and ambition.

You don't meet intellectuals in nightclubs in your own country you certainly won't meet them in 2 nd and 3rd world Asian nightclubs.

[rogerpilly]

Thank you for your post, it is quite interesting and well written. Even though I have been here for less than 2 years, I perfectly see your points,

I just want to tell you a couple of things about China. My brother has been living in Beijing since 2009. He is a director for commercials and documentaries and a very talented one. Although it is true that there a lot of opportunities to work in almost every field, getting actually the job it is not very easy. He is just now starting to get important jobs, after 5 years of hard work!

You will face huge cultural differences, an henormus langauge barrier (my brother had to learn Chinese, otherwise there is no way you can survive with English, which is basically unknown by the majority of people) and a completely different attitude versus job organization and operation.

In 2009 I spent one month in China myself. I can guarantee you it has been the most frustrating vacation I had in my life. I was not able to have any communication, even the most basic one. Chinese don't have any logic the way we think of. One day I was trying to buy a couple of bananas from a street vendor. I pointed the bananas and show the number 2 with 2 fingers. The man had no clue I wanted only 2 bananas and I had to pick them up myself as he was trying to give me the whole bunch. I was later told he did not understand me as Chinese people use 2 different fingers to show the number 2 with hands!!! This is just a little example, but Í can garantee you the level of frustration was very high. 3 Different Western Union offices refused to give my brother the money his mother sent him as he was a foreigner and the agents did not have any will to deal with somebody who did not speak Chinese! Forget to go to the post office or top up your cellulare phone if you don't speak Chinese or are accompanied by a Chinese speaker.

Furthermore, the laws on Visas are changing fast and not for the best. The government now think they have less need for foreigners and they are making more and more difficult to stay. And the cost of living has been raising exponentially in past few years...

I don't mean to discourage you, I think China is probably the best place in the world for business, but just be aware of certain things.

Best of Luck!

[crazykopite]

Good luck but do not moan when you are freezing your nuts off it the long cold winters or when you are restricted on the internet / FB other than that stay safe and as BOB would say in his song BE HAPPY !!!

[user82374298374]

You make many good points. Good luck in China, I hope it works out for you.

The OP is going to be sorely disappointed - all the negative traits he associates with Thailand aren't Thai traits. They're Asian traits.

Quite frankly, China is a filthy, polluted, corrupt hellhole (far more corrupt than Thailand, though that may be hard for some to fathom). For all its problems, the quality of life one can enjoy in Thailand is 10,000% better than in China.

If he thinks Thais are xenophobic and nepotistic, he's in for a rude shock when he gets to China. The Han think they're the master-race, just as the denizens of other Asian countries think they're the master-race. But the Chinese make other Asians look like pikers when it comes to ethnocentrism.

I've spent a lot of time in Thailand, and in every other Asian country with the exceptions of Laos and North Korea. *Any* of those other Asian countries is preferable to China; and Thailand is the most congenial for Westerners by far.

Big mistake, OP.

Edited March 31, 2014 by disambiguated

[user82374298374]

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Don't need to read the novel to know if you can then all the better. China has extensive international business, an absolutely beautiful country, excellent food & among the most beautiful women in the world. Forever love China...except their exported electronics, clothing, etc., exports asides, an excellent choice for life.


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Yes, they probably have the best Smog also

And Thailand is better? Mmmmmm, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, sorry the entire north, oh yeah then there's Bangkok! Thailand doesn't just hold back with air pollution, go diving off Krabi, they do worse to the ocean - that fish you buy at the market - then to the air you breathe.


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Air pollution in China is far, far worse than it is in Thailand. I've spent about six months total in China (Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangdong), and I saw blue skies on a grand total of three days.

Edited March 31, 2014 by disambiguated

[bunuel]

555 you are really ignorant my friend... You are leaving the pot for the frying pan... Oh yeah, the Chinese are friendly and love foreigners, and if you are white they kneel in from of you. Stop dreaming. The attributes you mention are a constant all throughout Asia. The disdain of foreigners is a constant no matter where you go, even more in Northern Asia. The only ones who will respect you are the rice eaters in the villages where they have never seen the white man. You must be proud of that! Other than Philippines or Indonesia, Asians tend to be cold and unfriendly. And In Philippines and Indonesia friendliness is not gratuitous either. Maybe Singapore has the most evolved culture, but that makes them respectful, not necessarily friendly. If you want to escape all those things you mention just go to Central or South America. Spanish will be easier for you to learn than Chinese!

Some very good points here. Assimilation into any Asian society is virtually impossible for a Caucasian foreigner, while South and Central American countries generally welcome gringos - with the welcome

increasing the farther away you get from the American border. Personally, Japan is far and away my

favorite Asian country, but I have no illusions about ever being other than a gaijin. That much said, I have developed friendships over the years with fellow Japanese practitioners of the martial art of aikido, and

they have taught me a great deal about Japanese culture, which I find fascinating. I have no problem

being a foreigner anywhere, provided there are some cultural rewards. Regrettably, I have found very

little cultural life here in Thailand worth mentioning, aside from world class gastronomy, horticulture and

massage techniques. The arts scene and intellectual life in Bangkok are pretty grim, to say the least,

I agree with some posters about the traditional rural idyll of Thailand, but I have never been a country

boy, so I get cabin fever up there. Bottom line is that Thailand is like the sex industry anywhere - ultimately pretty boring - the kind of place that makes me want to do a Paul Theroux and hide away with a good book or watch great old movies ( nb: readily available in LOS, if you know where to look!). I stopped going to bars decades ago - long before I came to Thailand.

The issue of language is huge. I speak several European languages, but I found Thai very difficult,

and since my wife and I speak in English, had no incentive to learn. Attempted to work for a Thai

boss, but quit after a few months when I realized it was impossible for me to accept Thai managerial

style, which I found both autocratic and incompetent to the extreme. ( Japanese are often autocratic,

but they are also usually competent!)

In South America, on the other hand, as poster notes, both Spanish and Portuguese are relatively easy

to pick up, and people are usually very tolerant as you destroy their grammar - unlike Thailand.

And since OP seems fixated on female companionship, he might find a few months in Brasil

in the Sir Richard Francis Burton School of languages would make Bangkok a distant memory!

Good luck in China!

[kimbathewhitelion]

Don't need to read the novel to know if you can then all the better. China has extensive international business, an absolutely beautiful country, excellent food & among the most beautiful women in the world. Forever love China...except their exported electronics, clothing, etc., exports asides, an excellent choice for life.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Yes, they probably have the best Smog also

And Thailand is better? Mmmmmm, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, sorry the entire north, oh yeah then there's Bangkok! Thailand doesn't just hold back with air pollution, go diving off Krabi, they do worse to the ocean - that fish you buy at the market - then to the air you breathe.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Air pollution in China is far, far worse than it is in Thailand. I've spent about six months total in China (Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangdong), and I saw blue skies on a grand total of three days.

Spent a month in Wales, saw partial blue sky, one day. Oh but that wasn't smog just some evenly spaced depressing cold grey. Point being there's pollution all throughout Asia, better to judge by other qualities. In the next few months, I tend to be actively looking at China as well for not just business but a better quality of life than Thailand. It's a universal access point for anything you need whereas Thailand is very limited & very expensive for the lower quality items. The high import taxes & general mark ups just because foreigners like it. China is also where most household items, electronics & clothing is manufactured making it a hub to consumer products. Apple is supported, other than Japan I think China is the only other country in the region, but than again Apple is also made in China.

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[sirchai]

Wish you good luck in China. Honestly, I'd rather like to go back to Europe. I was on my way to work this morning and stopped at a gas station, where I had a nice conversation,m with a Thai guy I've known for a couple of years.

We both came to the same conclusion. 13 years ago, one liter of Diesel oil was down to 11 baht/liter, a kg of pork was 18 baht.

To make a long story short, 1000 baht right now are pretty much similar then 100 baht were 13 years ago. Still not a reason to go to China.

Right now I need to turn each baht around twice to survive until the end of a month supporting my family as well.

[rmacee]

To add... The Philippines is what Thailand has lost and more..

Everyone speak English, radio, TV, Newspapers, movies in English. And, having rented a car and driven around Luzon it is the friendliness country in the world. Prettier girls.. :-)

Only challenge is where to live and it is remote with the occasional typhoon to keep it lively..

[Benmart]

I enjoyed your post and there is a lot of validity of what you wrote.

I've been coming to Thailand since 1993 and have noticed the changes, some good and otherwise. I don't drink and engage in "night time activities" and have a large circle of friends who are likewise sober and have their lives together much more so than the "others" you mentioned.

I find that having a solid group of expat friends is essential for me to live here and so far so good. That's not to say that life here is perfect. I have traveled a fair deal around the world and have yet to find a spot that doesn't have it's ups and downs.

I wish you the best of luck in China and may happiness find you and yours.

[1Ping1]

I find in general that Thai people are rude, dismissive and ignorant now towards foreigners.

Thai's are herd animals with very little and I mean very little capacity for the slightest independence of action or thought.

Above are direct quotes from your post. Then after spending the first paragraph trashing Issan Girls and giving the visual of a guy that spent the last 10 years in a whore house, you then state that you are not trashing Thai's.?????

Sure as heck have my blessing to go anywhere you want........................... Must have found you some prostitute in China to replace all the ones that are tired of you in Bangkok. Good for you that China's a big country. And just for the record, all Farongs are not as noted below:

Most foreign expats are trash, simply put. Alcoholics, sexual degenerates, criminals and perverts. The kind of conversations found in many social expat settings are simply not normal. Addiction to either sex, alcohol, drugs or your own ego is the norm.

Yeah, another direct quote. Hell, I live in quite a large development. You never described even one of them. You spend 10 years hanging out in go go bars and then have the nerve to trash everyone you hung out with?????? My god, you must be quite the popular guy.....................

One major point that I would suggest you best remember, your rights to freedom of speech are just a tad bit more cramped in China than they are here or in many other countries. Hopefully for you you do not find this out the hard way but you seem verbose enough that it sure is possible to be a problem down the road.

Yeah, you pissed me off, it always pisses me off when someone talks down to Thai's as if they were fricken animals. And it also pisses me off when someone describes all of us expat's as you did. Most likely you described yourself more than anyone else. Good for you

Good Luck

Good Bye

[sirchai]

Mr Hammer

I have been following your posts for a couple of years now.

You are a smart and articulate guy.

I am now in the same boat as you.

Except I am in Phuket.

The quality/cost issue also looms large here. I am frankly gobsmacked at how they continue to get away with the ludicrous overpricing here in Phuket. Every high season I tell myself that next year the tourist won't come...but they kept showing up and getting fleeced.

My exit strategy however, is focussed on West Java. The Indonesian rupiah was devalued significantly last year by the government, the people are farang friendly, and they are muslim so there is no alcohol and thus none of the stag part <deleted> you refer to now proliferating Grunthep.

As I posted on another thread, Indonesia also now offers a 25 year visa for expats who marry a local girl. That aint never going to happen here in Thailand.

Anybody needs a good looking Thai woman? Will give you all knowledge you'll have to know.Will divorce her when you'd paid SinSod. Time to go to Indonesia.........

Edited March 31, 2014 by sirchai

[mrfaroukh]

Agree with you on many Thai become aggressive, business is a pain, visa another problem etc. But you should also realize that most people living in Thailand are either tourist or retired people. There are not many people like you in 30's with good education looking for jobs.

They also say grass is always greener on the other side. I really hope you be happy in China. Best of luck

[tookwan cottage]

You speak of people addicted to ego, and the overwhelming sentiment that is evident in your post strongly reeks of: "I want to go somewhere where I am upheld as superior and where the culture is aligned with my distorted view on what is "decent".

"isaan prostitutes or the weird looking halfbreeds adored by the Thai media" - and this is just one of numerous "enlightened" and "insightful" comments in your post.

By the way, I hope you enjoy the air quality in China. Maybe take Malaysian Airlines, as I hear they are especially good in this part of the world.

[sirchai]

Agree with you on many Thai become aggressive, business is a pain, visa another problem etc. But you should also realize that most people living in Thailand are either tourist or retired people. There are not many people like you in 30's with good education looking for jobs.

They also say grass is always greener on the other side. I really hope you be happy in China. Best of luck

If it's really about a good standard of living, why not another country than China? I think it's not just the Communist bs that I dislike. Some people I worked with here in Thailand regret that they went to Shanghai.

Taiwan didn't get a good reputation either. But the OP seems to think that all Isaan girls are prostitutes. Why not giving it a try to live here? Learn how to speak the girl's local slang and you'll find that people here are much different to those in Bangkok, or Pattaya, etc....

Yep, the grass always seems to be greener in your dreams. Hope reality won't catch up, but it will. Niehau maa.

[Wordworx]

Spent a month in Wales, saw partial blue sky, one day. Oh but that wasn't smog just some evenly spaced depressing cold grey. Point being there's pollution all throughout Asia, better to judge by other qualities. In the next few months, I tend to be actively looking at China as well for not just business but a better quality of life than Thailand. It's a universal access point for anything you need whereas Thailand is very limited & very expensive for the lower quality items. The high import taxes & general mark ups just because foreigners like it. China is also where most household items, electronics & clothing is manufactured making it a hub to consumer products. Apple is supported, other than Japan I think China is the only other country in the region, but than again Apple is also made in China.

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****************************************************

A "better quality of life"? I guess depends on your definition of "better".

If you have not lived or traveled extensively in China, like in or to the eastern cities, you have not seen air pollution. I've visited and lived all over SE Asia and China. The air pollution in China is epic. Even on a relatively *clear* day, go out for a run and within a few blocks throat and lungs are burning -- the invisible particulates. Not so great days, look out of my place on the 10th-floor, I can't see the street one block away and down. Flying in to Beijing, you don't see the tarmac until a few seconds before you touch down. (They ground flights on occasion due to lack of visibility.) And while I mentioned eastern cities, those inland get just as bad, even worse. Just google China air pollution > Images > Past month. Only way to get away is down south and to the west -- an ever lessening zone of relatively clean(er) air.

What they have done to their lakes and waterways is... depressing, in the extreme. About 80% can no longer support life -- like fish. About 90% of city groundwater is polluted beyond possible use. I think about 40% of the citizens have no access to truly clean potable water.

China is not cheap -- unless you are out in the boonies gone native. Hotels, as a gauge, are about at US levels. A decent Western-inclined apartment in Beijing is comparable with most US cities -- likely more than most. And unless you are buying Chinese brands (or knock-offs), you will pay a premium with tariff. (And the decent Chinese brands compare in price with US prices on US goods -- more expensive, a lot of cases.) I always arranged to have photographic, computer and other electronics delivered from the States.

And the Han are pretty miserable, you get right down to it. A lot of them will be the first to admit it.

A "better quality of life"? Don't bet on it.

[tookwan cottage]

Besides the nightlife what were your other hobbies and interests in Thailand? You seem to only talk about the nightlife... you seem kind of obsessed with it.

Are you sure?? It sounds like he has been spending too many nights in, meditating and absorbing books on philosophy. The guy is not only "highly marketable," he is a surefire genius!! Watch out for him in the global media over the next couple of years, as he wines and dines in the upper eschalons of Chinese billionaire culture. I'll bet my life on it in fact!

[Kitsune]

I heard foreigners get spit at in China ....

[tookwan cottage]

If everybody would follow ur comment.....bye bye thaivisa...

Not at all, the forum is a great place to find information and discuss different topics. However, no one has asked or cares whether the OP is leaving Thailand or the reasons behind his decision.

totster

Don't say no one boss

I'm interested in why folks come and go in Thailand. That does not mean that I love or hate Thailand, I'm just curious why the massive move of Westerners to, and from, Asia.

Personally I would think China has more to offer an educated young westerner looking to make his or her place in the world. Learning Mandarin would also be more advantageous world wide as opposed to Thai.

Some of the posters on TV genuinely love the country (Thailand) and they are the lucky ones, to be so content. Others I suspect are unable to leave and just a tad jealous of those that decide to vote with their feet.

OK, my fire proof clothing is on; incinerate me for committing apostasy

I dont see why people are so in love with thailand, unless it is the ability to live a certain lifestyle on 30,000 baht monthly.

I was unable to live the way I wanted to for less than 100,000 baht monthly, so I returned to florida where I can ride a bike without being killed or breathing in metals and pollution. and I can ride my scooter to the ocean and swim in it in 7 minutes door to door.

In thailand, I had a hard time accepting the heat without relief

I also was unable to find consistent high pH water in thailand which for me, is a must

give me the ocean and the ability to breathe clean air, and that is half the battle in life

So why do you still engage in this forum? Is it because you want to be an altruistic community member and help others? I don't think so—I would bet good money that you use this forum as a reaffirmation that "YES, I AM RIGHT! It was nothing to do with me; it was all because of Thailand." Why don't you just be done with it, and just disconnect with this place that caused you so much pain, so the rest of us can live in peace?

[kimbathewhitelion]

Agree with you on many Thai become aggressive, business is a pain, visa another problem etc. But you should also realize that most people living in Thailand are either tourist or retired people. There are not many people like you in 30's with good education looking for jobs.

They also say grass is always greener on the other side. I really hope you be happy in China. Best of luck

"Most people in Thailand are either a tourist or retired people" "There are not many people...with good education..." Your words!

Are you high or just another tourist?

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[Wordworx]

I heard foreigners get spit at in China ....

******************************************

Nah, just that there is so much spitting going on, interior as well as exterior, sometimes in passing you take collateral damage.

[EASYDOGG]

At the end of the day OP, if you are over you are over it. Time to move on.

Your downfall was actually being in Bangkok and amongst a particular scene. If you got yourself out of the city it could have been so different for you.

A word of caution: I hated China. I wasn't there long, three weeks was enough, but experiencing grown adults pushing in public, not being able to get off a train stop as hordes just get on and don't let you off, people spitting everywhere(men and women), pollution, and being constantly stared at, once by a whole bus. How I longed to be Johnny Farang and go about my daily business under the radar like in Thailand. Say Hola to the Spanish for me!