Did Thai steal from Khmer culture?

[Asianbloke]

Thai shares numerous similarities from Khmer culture (which, in turn had borrowed from Indian culture)

Many Cambodians feel the Thais have borrowed much from Cambodian culture & civilisation but WITHOUT giving adequate/proper acknowledgement.

It is claimed that Thai alphabet, Thai royal language, court customs, classical dance and architecture have their roots in Khmer civilization.

Thai fail to recognize that the Great Ankot Wat was constructed by Khmer people. They attribute the building of Ankor wat to Khom people even though both are just the same people.

On the contrary, Thai claim that that it is their culture that influenced Khmer.

The recent Preah Vihear Hindu temple dispute seems like yet another attempt made by Thai in contemporary times to establish their right over possessions that are not theirs in the first place.

Is this true, and if it is, then isn't it time that Thailand should give Khmer their due?

[Soutpeel]

Yes "Thailand" stole from the Khmer culture, obviously understanding at the time of the Khmer empire, Thailand didnt exist

Recently Thailand threatened to sue Singapore recently over their Songkran celebrations, but Songkran is not uniquely a Thai celebration and even the name "Songkran" is not a Thai word.

[Asianbloke]

Yes "Thailand" stole from the Khmer culture, obviously understanding at the time of the Khmer empire, Thailand didnt exist

Recently Thailand threatened to sue Singapore recently over their Songkran celebrations, but Songkran is not uniquely a Thai celebration and even the name "Songkran" is not a Thai word.

Well, that's an interesting point. Songran actually has its origins in India.

We celebrate the annual festival of 'Makar Sakranti' to celebrate the advent of spring but it is held in January as against Thai songkran in April.

The Indian Sanskrit 'Sakranti' was modified to Thai word 'Songran' keeping up with their spelling rules and word ending limitations.

It was passed on to Khmer and Thai took it from there.

The problem is that people of Cambodia generously recognize the influence of ancient India unlike Thai who don't want to give credit to Khmer culture even though they were deeply inspired by Khmer.

[HeavyDrinker]

"Borrowed" is a far more apt word. Modern Thai Culture can trace it's roots from many sources.

The archaic and ridiculous over-love of uniforms, especially in public office, here to this very day, stems from Plaek Pibulsongkram's admiration of how smart Mussolini's fascists were in their uniforms.

Indeed as above, Thai (and Cambodian) cultures owe a lot to India....good luck ever getting a Thai to admit that debt...especially to their Cambodian neighbours. Some won't even admit the twain were almost a homogeneous entity for more than 6 centuries....

[playbgnow]

Ridiculous title to a ridiculous topic.

We are sharing this planet, exchanging ideas and ideals.

Look at any place on the planet and you will see the exchange.

[Asianbloke]

Ridiculous title to a ridiculous topic.

We are sharing this planet, exchanging ideas and ideals.

Look at any place on the planet and you will see the exchange.

Nobody is against exchange but one must always acknowledge the source of contribution/give credit to the giver.

Taking it from someone and calling it entirely as one's own is downright wrong.

[Asianbloke]

"Borrowed" is a far more apt word. Modern Thai Culture can trace it's roots from many sources.

The archaic and ridiculous over-love of uniforms, especially in public office, here to this very day, stems from Plaek Pibulsongkram's admiration of how smart Mussolini's fascists were in their uniforms.

Indeed as above, Thai (and Cambodian) cultures owe a lot to India....good luck ever getting a Thai to admit that debt...especially to their Cambodian neighbours. Some won't even admit the twain were almost a homogeneous entity for more than 6 centuries....

Thanks for your comment. Well, borrowed without any acknowledgement and then proclaiming it as one's own ingenious creation comes close to stealing. Don't you think so?

Wow! I am surprised for I never knew that Khmer and Thai had been a homogeneous identity for centuries. It's sad that they don't want to admit it.

[Berkshire]

Yes "Thailand" stole from the Khmer culture, obviously understanding at the time of the Khmer empire, Thailand didnt exist

Recently Thailand threatened to sue Singapore recently over their Songkran celebrations, but Songkran is not uniquely a Thai celebration and even the name "Songkran" is not a Thai word.

Well, that's an interesting point. Songran actually has its origins in India.

We celebrate the annual festival of 'Makar Sakranti' to celebrate the advent of spring but it is held in January as against Thai songkran in April.

The Indian Sanskrit 'Sakranti' was modified to Thai word 'Songran' keeping up with their spelling rules and word ending limitations.

It was passed on to Khmer and Thai took it from there.

The problem is that people of Cambodia generously recognize the influence of ancient India unlike Thai who don't want to give credit to Khmer culture even though they were deeply inspired by Khmer.

I take it you're Indian. And you feel the Thais should get on their hands and knees to thank you and the Khmer for...what exactly I don't know. If you go far back enough into history, someone is always stealing from someone else. In America, we stole the whole of the country from the indigenous people, right after nearly exterminating their entire race. Do we give them proper credit? Not hardly.

So to answer the question posed in your OP....who cares.

[Rorri]

Berkshire, on 31 Mar 2014 - 16:19, said:

lokesh, on 31 Mar 2014 - 14:12, said:

Soutpeel, on 31 Mar 2014 - 13:58, said:

Yes "Thailand" stole from the Khmer culture, obviously understanding at the time of the Khmer empire, Thailand didnt exist

Recently Thailand threatened to sue Singapore recently over their Songkran celebrations, but Songkran is not uniquely a Thai celebration and even the name "Songkran" is not a Thai word.

Well, that's an interesting point. Songran actually has its origins in India.

We celebrate the annual festival of 'Makar Sakranti' to celebrate the advent of spring but it is held in January as against Thai songkran in April.

The Indian Sanskrit 'Sakranti' was modified to Thai word 'Songran' keeping up with their spelling rules and word ending limitations.

It was passed on to Khmer and Thai took it from there.

The problem is that people of Cambodia generously recognize the influence of ancient India unlike Thai who don't want to give credit to Khmer culture even though they were deeply inspired by Khmer.

I take it you're Indian. And you feel the Thais should get on their hands and knees to thank you and the Khmer for...what exactly I don't know. If you go far back enough into history, someone is always stealing from someone else. In America, we stole the whole of the country from the indigenous people, right after nearly exterminating their entire race. Do we give them proper credit? Not hardly.

So to answer the question posed in your OP....who cares.

Reading your reply, it appears as though you have the story a little twisted, maybe you read it too early, before fully waking.

[Asianbloke]

Yes "Thailand" stole from the Khmer culture, obviously understanding at the time of the Khmer empire, Thailand didnt exist

Recently Thailand threatened to sue Singapore recently over their Songkran celebrations, but Songkran is not uniquely a Thai celebration and even the name "Songkran" is not a Thai word.

Well, that's an interesting point. Songran actually has its origins in India.

We celebrate the annual festival of 'Makar Sakranti' to celebrate the advent of spring but it is held in January as against Thai songkran in April.

The Indian Sanskrit 'Sakranti' was modified to Thai word 'Songran' keeping up with their spelling rules and word ending limitations.

It was passed on to Khmer and Thai took it from there.

The problem is that people of Cambodia generously recognize the influence of ancient India unlike Thai who don't want to give credit to Khmer culture even though they were deeply inspired by Khmer.

I take it you're Indian. And you feel the Thais should get on their hands and knees to thank you and the Khmer for...what exactly I don't know. If you go far back enough into history, someone is always stealing from someone else. In America, we stole the whole of the country from the indigenous people, right after nearly exterminating their entire race. Do we give them proper credit? Not hardly.

So to answer the question posed in your OP....who cares.

It's fine if you don't care. But do take note of my comment. I just asked Thai to acknowledge the contribution and STRONG of Khmer culture and NOT Indian culture (even if it has been an indirect influence)

A mere acknowledgement is fine. On the contrary, if one twists history to the extent of saying that it is Khmer who burrowed heavily from Thai, then it is plain wrong.

I do know the story of the NEW World.

Talking about India, it has been the home to oldest continually-running civilization on earth and the main religion there, Hinduism pre-dates many.

Some of the great civilizations like Roman, Greek, Mesopotamian, Egyptian flourished at a time only to completely disappear later, but Indian civilization has stood the test of the time.

You can also read up the influence of India on South-east Asian empires (the various Indianized kingdoms) However, none of that happened through invasion or proselytization.

We are not here to discuss India but to accord respect to those who inspired us.

[Bpuumike]

Yes "Thailand" stole from the Khmer culture, obviously understanding at the time of the Khmer empire, Thailand didnt exist

Recently Thailand threatened to sue Singapore recently over their Songkran celebrations, but Songkran is not uniquely a Thai celebration and even the name "Songkran" is not a Thai word.

Well, that's an interesting point. Songran actually has its origins in India.

We celebrate the annual festival of 'Makar Sakranti' to celebrate the advent of spring but it is held in January as against Thai songkran in April.

The Indian Sanskrit 'Sakranti' was modified to Thai word 'Songran' keeping up with their spelling rules and word ending limitations.

It was passed on to Khmer and Thai took it from there.

The problem is that people of Cambodia generously recognize the influence of ancient India unlike Thai who don't want to give credit to Khmer culture even though they were deeply inspired by Khmer.

I take it you're Indian. And you feel the Thais should get on their hands and knees to thank you and the Khmer for...what exactly I don't know. If you go far back enough into history, someone is always stealing from someone else. In America, we stole the whole of the country from the indigenous people, right after nearly exterminating their entire race. Do we give them proper credit? Not hardly.

So to answer the question posed in your OP....who cares.

It's fine if you don't care. But do take note of my comment. I just asked Thai to acknowledge the contribution and STRONG of Khmer culture and NOT Indian culture (even if it has been an indirect influence)

A mere acknowledgement is fine. On the contrary, if one twists history to the extent of saying that it is Khmer who burrowed heavily from Thai, then it is plain wrong.

I do know the story of the NEW World.

Talking about India, it has been the home to oldest continually-running civilization on earth and the main religion there, Hinduism pre-dates many.

Some of the great civilizations like Roman, Greek, Mesopotamian, Egyptian flourished at a time only to completely disappear later, but Indian civilization has stood the test of the time.

You can also read up the influence of India on South-east Asian empires (the various Indianized kingdoms) However, none of that happened through invasion or proselytization.

We are not here to discuss India but to accord respect to those who inspired us.

And regardless of our own opnions, at least keep the historical records accurate and something we can pass on through the generations.

[harrythefinn]

If you go and visit Angkor Wat , you will see the Kinaree carved on the walls . The symbol used on every Thai currency note and government documents.Comes as a shock to most Thais, they don't know their own history.

[ezzra]

Dose a bear shit in woods? of course they stole it from the Khmer, the Khmer sort of

stole it from the people of ancient India, where all this Buddha business originated to start

with...

[Water Buffalo]

Most countries didn't "invent" their own culture. To use the term "steal" is a bit harsh. In that case, the vast majority of countries "stole" their culture, language, alphabet etc etc.

Yeah yeah, we know India probably didn't steal much from anyone since they are such an ancient people.

[h90]

When I steal your mobile phone than I have it and you don't have it anymore.

But steal culture? I steal your culture so now I have it and you are without culture?

I guess you mean they copied some aspects of Khmer culture?

[tkramer]

"Ridiculous title to a ridiculous topic.

We are sharing this planet, exchanging ideas and ideals.

Look at any place on the planet and you will see the exchange."

Not rediculous...Thailand is great at taking, and not giving.

Check your history...'Muay Thai' is really 'Muay Khmer'...case in point.

[Asianbloke]

Dose a bear shit in woods? of course they stole it from the Khmer, the Khmer sort of

stole it from the people of ancient India, where all this Buddha business originated to start

with...

I wouldn't stay that Khmer stole it from India because they graciously acknowledged the Indian influence. They were definitely inspired by Indian civilization & culture.

Let me quote the words of Prince Norodom Sihanouk of Cambodia as he recalled the close cultural ties that have existed for two thousand years between India and Cambodia.

He said:

"When we refer to 2000 year old ties which unite us with India, it is not at all a hyperbole. In fact, it was about 2000 years ago that the first navigators, Indian merchants, and Brahmins brought to our ancestors their gods, their techniques, their organization. Briefly India was for us what Greece was for the Latin Occident."

Edited March 31, 2014 by lokesh

[tkramer]

Actually, name one thing that Thai's have 'invented' that the world is using.

Not only did they not invent anything of worth or value...but their attempt to counterfiet and copy other items and procedures falls way short of the mark.

Edited March 31, 2014 by tkramer

[Borzandy]

"Did Thai steal" ho no.....not again.

[thepool]

If one goes to India Swastikas can be found carved/painted on and within very ancient buildings ! ( What does that mean? )

Discussions such as this demand a person has some education/knowledge or the debate , as demonstrated here, rapidly declines to the depths of ignorance.

[Soutpeel]

When I steal your mobile phone than I have it and you don't have it anymore.

But steal culture? I steal your culture so now I have it and you are without culture?

I guess you mean they copied some aspects of Khmer culture?

All fair comment, but dont do think it was a bit "rich" that members of a Thai Goverment department wanted to sue Singapore for "Cultural Exclusivity" over Songkran when they "copied" this aspect of "Thai" culture from somewhere else ?

If we follow this logic, Cambodia could then sue Thailand and in turn India could sue Cambodia

[4u2mad]

Of course Thai 'borrowed' from the Khumer empire, at one time there was no Thailand, Khumer as far west as Burma. Written Thai is based on Sanskrit, an ancient form of writing first recognized to come from along the Ganges river. A Thai king adapted it and they took it for their own. Thai traditional dance is Khumer in origin, a few 'borrowed' dance troops? Surprisingly the Thai Royal Air-force was the worlds first!! But it was organized by a Frenchman, 1910?

Just look at all the Thai inventions, tuk-tuk and errr?

[Water Buffalo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Ridiculous title to a ridiculous topic.

We are sharing this planet, exchanging ideas and ideals.

Look at any place on the planet and you will see the exchange."

Not rediculous...Thailand is great at taking, and not giving.

Check your history...'Muay Thai' is really 'Muay Khmer'...case in point.

Yeah, and the potato originated in South America and the guitar in such n such.....

Not to mention, every language in existence was once just one language. Its not stealing. Cultures evolved.

And the Thai/Kymer boxing example is just ridiculous. Two guy bashing each others heads. Gimme a break! Everyone does that.

How much of Europe "stole" Roman culture...and they "stole" it from the Greeks.

Another Thai bashing thread. Pathetic.

[Soutpeel]

Actually, name one thing that Thai's have 'invented' that the world is using.

Bum guns

[DP25]

People from certain countries should concentrate on developing their countries instead of obsessing over whether others properly revere their accomplishments from a thousand years ago. They shouldn't be worrying about what Thais or others think of them, they should be building toilets so people don't have to poop in their own water supply.

[Soutpeel]

If one goes to India Swastikas can be found carved/painted on and within very ancient buildings ! ( What does that mean? )

The Ancient Indians, had funny little moustaches and goose stepped...?...

[Asianbloke]

If one goes to India Swastikas can be found carved/painted on and within very ancient buildings ! ( What does that mean? )

Discussions such as this demand a person has some education/knowledge or the debate , as demonstrated here, rapidly declines to the depths of ignorance.

Yes, swastikas are a common symbol of worship in India. Not only are they found in the ancient temples and other monuments, their use continues till date in India and some even paint them on their house walls and furniture.

They have come to symbolize hatred in western word, thanks to Hitler and the genocide but they have a completely different meaning here in our culture.

[Asianbloke]

People from certain countries should concentrate on developing their countries instead of obsessing over whether others properly revere their accomplishments from a thousand years ago. They shouldn't be worrying about what Thais or others think of them, they should be building toilets so people don't have to poop in their own water supply.

Development is the need of the hour and it is happening but that shouldn't stop anyone from being vigilant to the injustices of the past. Everyone should get what they rightfully deserve.

Edited March 31, 2014 by lokesh

[CMBob]

As noted, use of the word "steal" is simply ridiculous. And the notion that somebody needs to bow down and graciously acknowledge adopting parts of others' cultures and habits is almost as ridiculous.

Perhaps I'll wait for the OP to bow down and graciously acknowledging others for "stealing" the English language, various sports, automobiles, pizza, and a million other things.

Some real bizarre thinking here.

[Asianbloke]

As noted, use of the word "steal" is simply ridiculous. And the notion that somebody needs to bow down and graciously acknowledge adopting parts of others' cultures and habits is almost as ridiculous.

Perhaps I'll wait for the OP to bow down and graciously acknowledging others for "stealing" the English language, various sports, automobiles, pizza, and a million other things.

Some real bizarre thinking here.

I never asked anyone to bow down. Did I say that Khmer stole from India?

No, they acknowledged the Indian influence of culture.

Moreover, I would have said that I among others stole the English language or pizza, if I claimed it to be our very own cultural creation.

We hold on to the belief that English is not an Indian language and Pizza is a part of the Italian cuisine at all the cafes and restaurants here.

Cricket which has had a great fan-following in India but is certainly considered to be a British sport here.

We have a similar game which is truly Indian but it has fallen out of favour with changing times.

They are free to adopt from anywhere. What I simply say is that, atleast don't claim that the very people who ingeniously invented those creations are the ones who copy them.

Edited March 31, 2014 by lokesh