Constitutional Court decides to proceed with case against PM Yingluck: Thawil's transfer

[Hawkman]

Does anybody here seriously think that an election devoid of Yingluck, family etc will not still see a win for PTT or whatever they may call themselves if they are disbanded?

The Dems certainly have no chance so the only other option is what Suthep and his backers has been pushing for all along. Sadly the end of any form of democracy and the peoples council. The judiciary seem to be pushing as hard as possible for the latter.

No one has a problem if PTP win. What people have a problem with is, one family using propoganda, power, manipulation and wealth to form their own dictatorship disguised as a democracy. You only have to look at the way they are trying to get family members into important positions. You really think this is a good thing? You really think 450 billion baht disappearing into already rich corrupt officials is a good thing?

And the red shirts call the yellow shirts, elite ....

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Edited April 2, 2014 by Hawkman

[Mrgk]

If somebody is charged with a crime (murder, theft, corrupt practice etc...as both sides have been), why does the case not follow due process and go to court? Why are there so many charges and counter-charges? Abhisit has been charged with murder, as has Suthep. Yingluck has been charged with other stuff. If you face a serious charge, surely you are taken to court and prosecuted?

You are, if that is in the political interest of the powers that be. If it is not in their interest to have you prosecuted, you are not prosecuted. It´s a rather principled approach to things, when one thinks a bit about it.

[Arkady]

Let me get it right. A civil servant was transfered against his will and now its at the CC ? In how many countries can that happen ? Can it happen in the US, UK or EU, no it can't because its got nothing to do with the constitution. It's a matter between an employer (the gov) and the employee. But if you are desperate to get rid of your opposition you will do anything, won't you?

it can,happen,in,other countries. In posts where a person holds high civil office. I cannot quote an exact sample but I,know in Australia it can be brought before the HIGH COURT (Thai cc equivalent) that a PRIME MINISTER can be impeached for tampering before tenure is due, with deserve bank,governor, head of armed forces, treasury, health heads and others.

We operate similar to UK so I guess you are wrong

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

I think the intention of the drafters was to make political interference harder and stop the habit of new govts replacing civil servants with their own people who be trusted to help them gouge the taxpayer. We are still a long way off from having a class of neutral mandarins who keep ministries running smoothly and impartially no matter who's in power but I guess that was the idea, like the Bank of Thailand that is now run under its ow. Special law by an independent governor on a contract that is hard to break. Previously BOT governors were fired on whims of politicians usually because they refused to prime the pump to help the govt. Perhaps the Thawil case encourage the same approach more broadly in govt entities.

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[Roadman]

Does anybody here seriously think that an election devoid of Yingluck, family etc will not still see a win for PTT or whatever they may call themselves if they are disbanded?

The Dems certainly have no chance so the only other option is what Suthep and his backers has been pushing for all along. Sadly the end of any form of democracy and the peoples council. The judiciary seem to be pushing as hard as possible for the latter.

No one has a problem if PTP win. What people have a problem with is, one family using propoganda, power, manipulation and wealth to form their own dictatorship disguised as a democracy. You only have to look at the way they are trying to get family members into important positions. You really think this is a good thing? You really think 450 billion baht disappearing into already rich corrupt officials is a good thing?

And the red shirts call the yellow shirts, elite ....

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Good post and very correct.

[JAG]

Wouldn't it be easier if the parliament building could be located next to the court buildings that way all the participants would not have so far to walk all they would have to do is pop next door. Is there anyone that isn't facing some charge or other?

I wouldn't bother, once Abhisit has been levered into the Prime Ministers role, then the courts will suddenly lose all interest in what the government is doing.

[phutoie2]

So the downfall of YS and her cronies can be down to one law lecturer, 27 Senators and 9 Judges. Fe*k anyone else who lives here, now I know why Thailand is different.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[webfact]

CONTROVERSIAL TRANSFER OF NSC CHIEF
Court accepts case against Yingluck
PIYANUT TUMNUKASETCHAI
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE CONSTITUTIONAL Court yesterday voted unanimously to proceed with a petition against caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who has been accused of breaching the charter with regard to the transfer of the National Security Council (NSC) chief.

"We agree to consider the petition against the prime minister and ask that she defend herself within 15 days of receiving the court papers," the court said in a statement. If found guilty of breaching the Constitution, Yingluck and her entire Cabinet could face dismissal for approving Thawil's transfer.

A group of senators led by appointed Senator Paiboon Nititawan filed the petition, which alleged that Yingluck breached the charter by ordering the transfer of NSC secretary-general Thawil Pliensri to an inactive advisory post at the PM's Office. They asked the court to rule on whether the premier should be dismissed based on the unlawful transfer.

The Supreme Administrative Court in March ruled that Yingluck's order to remove Thawil as the NSC chief was unlawful and ordered Yingluck to reinstate him.

The group of senators filed the petition following the Supreme Administrative Court's ruling. The petition noted that the charter did not allow the government to transfer permanent officials for the sake of vested interests.

The senators alleged that Yingluck violated Articles 180, 182 (7), 266 (2), 266 (3) and 268 of the charter by transferring Thawil to an inactive post so that her former brother-in-law, Pol General Priewpan Damapong, could win the post of National Police chief.

Thawil's post of NSC chief was given to then police chief Pol General Wichean Potephosree, who agreed to vacate his seat for Priewpan.

Article 266 (2) states that a minister cannot interfere in "the recruitment, appointment, reshuffle, transfer, promotion, and elevation of the salary scale of a Government official holding a permanent position or receiving a permanent salary and not being a political official, or an official or employee of a Government agency, a State agency, a State enterprise, an undertaking of which the majority of shares are owned by the State, or a local Government organisation."


-- The Nation 2014-04-03

[chooka]

LOL they are throwing everything brown against the wall hoping it will stick what a tangled web...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/charter-court-rejects-call-end-ms-yinglucks-premiership/

But hey when ya can't win an election according to the laws and the constitution it is incumbent to try any means possible...right? The old shotgun theory ...

I sincerely hope for all Thais they know what the alternative is... ...

Is that really the best you can do? Running out of excuses for this sorid bunch of criminals, are you?

The sooner this entire bunch of criminals are behind bars, the better for Thailand.

of course you mean those on the other team also who are baring their naked buttocks at the judicial system and laughing.

[kurnell]

This is the final nail in the coffin for Yingluck and her party

Imagine how this forum would look if we weren't allowed to use cliches

[Malone]

So the downfall of YS and her cronies can be down to one law lecturer, 27 Senators and 9 Judges. Fe*k anyone else who lives here, now I know why Thailand is different.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The downfall of YS and her cronies is down to hers and theirs illegal actions, She and them said Fe*k the law, we're elected, we can do whatever we Da*n well please.

[geriatrickid]

The first reform should be in respect to the judicial system which should be purged of anyone who allows political leanings to influence decisions.

It is absolutely ridiculous that a political appointee cannot be transferred. The individual in question was not terminated and kept his benefits and salary.

[Nickymaster]

The first reform should be in respect to the judicial system which should be purged of anyone who allows political leanings to influence decisions.

It is absolutely ridiculous that a political appointee cannot be transferred. The individual in question was not terminated and kept his benefits and salary.

But you do agree with Abhisit being charged with premeditated murder, right?

[Thait Spot]

The first reform should be in respect to the judicial system which should be purged of anyone who allows political leanings to influence decisions.

It is absolutely ridiculous that a political appointee cannot be transferred. The individual in question was not terminated and kept his benefits and salary.

No mate.

The first reform should be banning nepotism and cronyism such as that which removed an honest man from his job to permit the brother in law of the fugitive former prime minister to take up the position as head of the police prior to his retirement.

Do you not want the laws to be followed?

[dutchkev]

So much BS and ranting on this site , anyone who has been here for awhile knows , that there isn't a decent politician in the whole country , and that goes right down to the village headman, their all corrupt .

Corruption flows through this country like blood runs through a body , yellow red which ever u follow , their only goal , is to put more money in their own pockets .

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[rubl]

The first reform should be in respect to the judicial system which should be purged of anyone who allows political leanings to influence decisions.

It is absolutely ridiculous that a political appointee cannot be transferred. The individual in question was not terminated and kept his benefits and salary.

Was k. Thawil a political appointee, assuming to refer to the person in the topic ? Do you want to imply k. Thawil didn't have the right qualifications for the job?

[Nickymaster]

So the downfall of YS and her cronies can be down to one law lecturer, 27 Senators and 9 Judges. Fe*k anyone else who lives here, now I know why Thailand is different.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes in a democracy a downfall can be down to 9 judges. Normally you call that a court's decision ie judgement. Courts judge whether or not you broke the law. You never heard of that?

Where you from?

[Nickymaster]

The first reform should be in respect to the judicial system which should be purged of anyone who allows political leanings to influence decisions.

It is absolutely ridiculous that a political appointee cannot be transferred. The individual in question was not terminated and kept his benefits and salary.

No mate.

The first reform should be banning nepotism and cronyism such as that which removed an honest man from his job to permit the brother in law of the fugitive former prime minister to take up the position as head of the police prior to his retirement.

Do you not want the laws to be followed?

Correct. Therefor it's no coincidence that the guys who killed more than 20 anti-government protestors (including children) will never be caught.

[smedly]

The first reform should be in respect to the judicial system which should be purged of anyone who allows political leanings to influence decisions.

It is absolutely ridiculous that a political appointee cannot be transferred. The individual in question was not terminated and kept his benefits and salary.

well if you actually had a clue what happened to this man it's proper definition or term is "Summary Dismissal" just short of being sacked and even in Thailand people cannot be sacked for no good reason

I think we can all agree why this man lost his job - because PTP couldn't trust him to keep his mouth shut while they fleeced the Thai people of nearly 1 trillion baht - simple

If PTP kept within the law then they had nothing to fear

[ace]

So much BS and ranting on this site , anyone who has been here for awhile knows , that there isn't a decent politician in the whole country , and that goes right down to the village headman, their all corrupt .....

Got to agree with this. It's a sorry state where the best option is military rule.

[animatic]

So the downfall of YS and her cronies can be down to one law lecturer, 27 Senators and 9 Judges. Fe*k anyone else who lives here, now I know why Thailand is different.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, it comes down to

'if she broke the laws in the constitution or not'.

The will to prosecute may be political, but the actions if proved

leading to conviction would be clearly illegal.

Since the administrative court has already ruled the reassignment firing was not legal,

and the main reason to do so was to bump up someone in one chair so their

family member can become police chief, it would be hard to not see it as nepotism

and benefiting the PM and her clan.

It's not like PMs presidents and other government leaders are not removed from office

because they over-reached. It happens regularly. It is usually some court or ethics group

starting the ball rolling after an investigation shows reasonable preponderance of wrong doing.

Edited April 3, 2014 by animatic

[Pops]

LOL they are throwing everything brown against the wall hoping it will stick what a tangled web...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/charter-court-rejects-call-end-ms-yinglucks-premiership/

But hey when ya can't win an election according to the laws and the constitution it is incumbent to try any means possible...right? The old shotgun theory ...

I sincerely hope for all Thais they know what the alternative is... ...

Sure they know what the alternative is, because the alternative is what they had before Taksin came into power.

But then with even more rights stripped, because the alternative has also learned its lesson.

[Malone]

It is absolutely ridiculous that a political appointee cannot be transferred. The individual in question was not terminated and kept his benefits and salary.

A political appointee CAN be transferred as long as it doesn't violate Article 266, which this transfer did.

.

[Malone]

So the downfall of YS and her cronies can be down to one law lecturer, 27 Senators and 9 Judges. Fe*k anyone else who lives here, now I know why Thailand is different.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes in a democracy a downfall can be down to 9 judges. Normally you call that a court's decision ie judgement. Courts judge whether or not you broke the law. You never heard of that?

Where you from?

North Korea?

Because that country doesn't need to follow such tedious trivialities like the law.

[Thai at Heart]

Who will make the decision to install a "peoples council" once Yingluck is impeached? Does she not elect a caretaker PM to replace her? The Constitutional courts or the Senate?

With all these cases against her, why don't they just stop messing around, and order her removed from power, and stop this impasse once and for all, and batten down the hatches for the possibility of Red shirt violence, and some here will more be inclined to think that's an inevitability, and they maybe right, but there's nothing positive about any future without a big brass balls decision to move forwards. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

Its true. All this pussy footing around suggests an awful.lot of players aren't 100% committed to removing Yingluck.

They want the guise of court judgements to cover it up. Whichever way they go, putting in a council.causes big problems.

[Pimay1]

So the downfall of YS and her cronies can be down to one law lecturer, 27 Senators and 9 Judges. Fe*k anyone else who lives here, now I know why Thailand is different.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The downfall of YS and her cronies IS down to violating the charter with the attitude Fe*k anyone else who lives here. It doesn't take a law lecturer to understand the article below.

Article 266 (2) states that a minister cannot interfere in "the recruitment, appointment, reshuffle, transfer, promotion, and elevation of the salary scale of a Government official holding a permanent position or receiving a permanent salary and not being a political official, or an official or employee of a Government agency, a State agency, a State enterprise, an undertaking of which the majority of shares are owned by the State, or a local Government organisation."

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Who will make the decision to install a "peoples council" once Yingluck is impeached? Does she not elect a caretaker PM to replace her? The Constitutional courts or the Senate?

With all these cases against her, why don't they just stop messing around, and order her removed from power, and stop this impasse once and for all, and batten down the hatches for the possibility of Red shirt violence, and some here will more be inclined to think that's an inevitability, and they maybe right, but there's nothing positive about any future without a big brass balls decision to move forwards. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

Its true. All this pussy footing around suggests an awful.lot of players aren't 100% committed to removing Yingluck.

They want the guise of court judgements to cover it up. Whichever way they go, putting in a council.causes big problems.

On the other hand it's also true that there are strong, and where needed ruthless, forces strongly active to maintain the status quo - in other words keep the current gravy train alive and with the rack offs continuing.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Since he was bumped to make way for a relative of the PM / Thaksin / the police chief / the army guy / the foreign minister etc etc. all part of the Shin clan, clearly it is a charge of nepotism and conflict of interests. The government should be here to serve the country, not the fugitive in Dubai. He has taken many steps to make the government serve him, now the courts are starting to take the country back. Good for them, this is their job, to protect the country against people like the Shin's. Just a shame it took so long to happen....

All the more support for serious reforms before the next election.

[airconsult]

Ah, she was wrong to transfer Thawil

Yes, she was, and now she's being held accountable for her wrongful actions.

You remind me of a former poster (now departed) - who used to have the same habit of nipping just a few words out and changing the context by doing so.

That's poor form you know.

[DirtFarmer]

LOL they are throwing everything brown against the wall hoping it will stick what a tangled web...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/charter-court-rejects-call-end-ms-yinglucks-premiership/

But hey when ya can't win an election according to the laws and the constitution it is incumbent to try any means possible...right? The old shotgun theory ...

I sincerely hope for all Thais they know what the alternative is... ...

Sure they know what the alternative is, because the alternative is what they had before Taksin came into power.

But then with even more rights stripped, because the alternative has also learned its lesson.

Please do a little more research on the History of corruption In Thailand before making broad statements like

".....the alternative is what they had before Taksin came into power.

But then with even more rights stripped, because the alternative has also learned its lesson...."

Pasuk Phongpaichit and Sungsidh Piriyarangsan Authors of a book called Corruption and Democracy in Thailand.. originally published in 1996 an excellent primer for corruption in real time … and and I paraphrase a bit from that work here..

…claim that officials were traditionally not paid salaries but were entitled to retain a 10 to 30 percent portion of the money involved as a fee for their services. Even at these times wrongdoers were around and were called ging maung (“eating the state”). Pasuk and Sungsidh further explain that in traditional Thai value system merit is derived from power and in this way forms a basis for patron - client relationship in the political society. There is also a tradition of presenting gifts to high officials. In this context you see that some things used to be legitimate under the traditional patronage system but are clearly to be considered problematic in modern legal system.

Pasuk, and Sungsidh did a survey concerning people’s attitudes towards corruption. This study showed that many Thais still accept paying fees to officials as sin nam jai , the 'gifts of good will' and do not see that as a form of corruption. Much more they see taking things, even small ones like pencils, home from office corrupt. Another thing they found out was that there is a growing group of middle class people who oppose the corruption in its all forms. Still people expected the corruption to grow rather than disappear. One other culture based area concerning corruption is existence of influential provincial businessmen called Jao Pho (“godfather”). These men must be very similar to the heads

of traditional Chinese business networks, and have often raised themselves above the law.

Between years 1932 and 1997 there has been 15 constitutions in Thailand, mostly invoked by those near the military juntas that took over the country from time to time. Of course, in those eras a sufficient amount of open discussion could not take place and due to this it would be unfair to say these constitutions were democratically invoked. It was also considered honorable among those in power to protect any state information, so it has been mostly impossible to retrieve information and criticize any decisions that had been made by the government officials…

Prof. Nualnoi Treerat says the big gap between the Thai urban middle class and the poor rural people causes political instability, which in turn makes a reform very difficult and hence keeps the patron and client–tradition alive.

Lack of democracy would of course mean that rules do not have to be widely accepted and can be unfair because of this. The undemocratic leaders are in the best possible position of accepting bribes, because they do not have to care about laws or law enforcement in particular.

Without real freedom of the press, and the archaic yet defamation laws allowing the continued stifling, the media cannot publish stories about the unjust going on in the society and most of the people would not know about them in the first place. One should not underestimate the power of news media nowadays. Of course the media could be bribed too and be part of the corrupted network but it is more likely that governments just regulate their output or shut them down completely.

In Thailand people usually think judges and prosecutors must be honest but still over 30 percent of those who had to go to court were asked for bribes, the requested payments were about …the same size of the normal court costs. In half the cases involving requested payments, the judicial matter was concerning some kind of economic value and the amount asked to insure the decision was in average 3.5 percent of this value. The bribes were usually asked by a middle-man, so no direct indication to the judge or prosecutor could be made. Probably because of that, the people who paid were uncertain if the money really had any effect on the outcome…Blindly giving money thinking, hoping it would have an affect…

I have continually stated since I started posting that corruption was here before Thaksin and will be here after Thaksin...because it is in the fabric of the Thai Culture and Custom..It will take generations to eradicate…

I suggest all posters who insist that evicting Thaksin and his influence and by so doing will eradicate corruption ..pull your heads out of the sand… it will start with the re-education of the children….and the willingness of the parents to shed that custom…period.

"...

Edited April 4, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[Kooweerup]

LOL they are throwing everything brown against the wall hoping it will stick what a tangled web...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/charter-court-rejects-call-end-ms-yinglucks-premiership/

But hey when ya can't win an election according to the laws and the constitution it is incumbent to try any means possible...right? The old shotgun theory ...

I sincerely hope for all Thais they know what the alternative is... ...

Is that really the best you can do? Running out of excuses for this sorid bunch of criminals, are you?

The sooner this entire bunch of criminals are behind bars, the better for Thailand.

of course you mean those on the other team also who are baring their naked buttocks at the judicial system and laughing.

they definately are and are proving to the world that they are totally untouchable and are far above the law