Why shops are allowed to openly steal from customers

[fatdrunkandstupid]

Simple rule: Don't rely on ANY information provided to you by Thai during a commercial transaction. That information can by written or verbal.

Or just do what I do: The rebutable presumption is that ANY information you receive from a Thai is incorrect. If you mindful of this presumption it is then possible to carry out any day to day activities, including shopping

[JesseFrank]

So how are they stealing from you.

So you consider selling a 325 gram item labeled as 712 gram not stealing ?

[wym]

Only if you're silly enough to buy it

[samran]

Suggest the OP downloads an Australian consumer affairs show called 'The Checkout'.

Companies charging 50% more for the same thing in slightly differently labeled packages.

Not justifying it, but consumer law can only go so far. The rest is up to us like the OP has shown.

[GuyL]

I noticed though that all packs were 712 gram. I know this trick and could feel that they were quite light, so I picked 2 packs and put them on the scale. One was 326 gram the other 348 gram, so both less than half their quoted weight.

Have you noticed that 0.712 lbs weighs 0.323 kg (= 323 g)? Are you sure that the weight on the label was not actually written in pounds (0.712)?

As I noticed a side by side fridge, I stopped by and the label on the fridge said 59.900 Baht, where the same fridge is sold inside and elsewhere at 74.990 Bht. Maybe their calculator had an error, but I noticed other items normally 15.900 Bht and after 80% discount only 12.000 Bht

Maybe someone was lost in translation there. It seems that you actually pay (about) 80% of the former price after applying the discount, which is actually (a little bit more than) 20%.

74990 x 0.8 = 59992

15900 x 0.8 = 12720

So, maybe, in these cases, the English text was (voluntarily or not) misleading. It would be interesting to see what was exactly written in Thai.

Edited April 5, 2014 by GuyL

[JesseFrank]

Only if you're silly enough to buy it

Nice try to have a go at me again, however I have made it clear in the OP already that I know the cheat and didn't buy, but at the end of the day all packages will be sold.

Not to silly people, but honest people who are not aware.

[JesseFrank]

I noticed though that all packs were 712 gram. I know this trick and could feel that they were quite light, so I picked 2 packs and put them on the scale. One was 326 gram the other 348 gram, so both less than half their quoted weight.

Have you noticed that 0.712 lbs weighs 0.323 kg (= 323 g)? Are you sure that the weight on the label was not actually written in pounds (0.712)?

As I noticed a side by side fridge, I stopped by and the label on the fridge said 59.900 Baht, where the same fridge is sold inside and elsewhere at 74.990 Bht. Maybe their calculator had an error, but I noticed other items normally 15.900 Bht and after 80% discount only 12.000 Bht

Maybe someone was lost in translation there. It seems that you actually pay (about) 80% of the former price after applying the discount, which is actually (a little bit more than) 20%.

74900 x 0.8 = 59220

15900 x 0.8 = 12720

So, maybe, in these cases, the English text was (voluntarily or not) misleading. It would be interesting to see what was exactly written in Thai.

I suggest you change your username to ApologistGuyL.

In Thailand grams and kilograms are use, not pounds and ounces.

[JesseFrank]

Suggest the OP downloads an Australian consumer affairs show called 'The Checkout'.

Companies charging 50% more for the same thing in slightly differently labeled packages.

Not justifying it, but consumer law can only go so far. The rest is up to us like the OP has shown.

Your example is something completely different, and is a practice that happens all over the world.

In this case the goods were clearly labeled double the weight of what they really were. That isn't a case of a slightly different labeled package .

[GuyL]

I noticed though that all packs were 712 gram. I know this trick and could feel that they were quite light, so I picked 2 packs and put them on the scale. One was 326 gram the other 348 gram, so both less than half their quoted weight.

Have you noticed that 0.712 lbs weighs 0.323 kg (= 323 g)? Are you sure that the weight on the label was not actually written in pounds (0.712)?

As I noticed a side by side fridge, I stopped by and the label on the fridge said 59.900 Baht, where the same fridge is sold inside and elsewhere at 74.990 Bht. Maybe their calculator had an error, but I noticed other items normally 15.900 Bht and after 80% discount only 12.000 Bht

Maybe someone was lost in translation there. It seems that you actually pay (about) 80% of the former price after applying the discount, which is actually (a little bit more than) 20%.

74990 x 0.8 = 59992

15900 x 0.8 = 12720

So, maybe, in these cases, the English text was (voluntarily or not) misleading. It would be interesting to see what was exactly written in Thai.

I suggest you change your username to ApologistGuyL.

In Thailand grams and kilograms are use, not pounds and ounces.

Usually, yes, but not always. I am not an apologist, but just found that it is a funny coincidence. Next time, take and post a picture of those labels.

[nong38]

wow, didn't realize ANY outfit had that farang-style CS policy?

I assume good on returns for faulty stuff as well?

Used to buy all my expensive electronics at Costco, no-questions-asked cash-back refund, even a year later, even if just because you decide you don't like it anymore. And cheaper than Amazon, as long as you don't live too far away.

Don't think any shop could get away with that here! 8-)

Big C are supposed to have the same policy, they just dont apply it, they just smile.

[JesseFrank]

I noticed though that all packs were 712 gram. I know this trick and could feel that they were quite light, so I picked 2 packs and put them on the scale. One was 326 gram the other 348 gram, so both less than half their quoted weight.

Have you noticed that 0.712 lbs weighs 0.323 kg (= 323 g)? Are you sure that the weight on the label was not actually written in pounds (0.712)?

I suggest you change your username to ApologistGuyL.

In Thailand grams and kilograms are use, not pounds and ounces.

Usually, yes, but not always. I am not an apologist, but just found that it is a funny coincidence. Next time, take and post a picture of those labels.

Can you give us an example where in Thai supermarkets Pounds and Ounces are used ?

Because the weight is labeled in pounds on imported goods doesn't mean that it is an accepted metric system.

The cut fruit was local fruit packed by the supermarket in question, not imported.

[nong38]

This useful information, we tend to trust the prices to be right, we are used to western practices where they are. Here consumers are treated differently, dubious price tickets abound to catch out the unwary, shelves filled up to empty the box and end up behind whatever ticket, check the barcode numbers now.

I have bought some products in the UK which claim a health benefit of 10%, here they claim 15%! Any claim to get your money, buyer beware is the best way forward, I wish that all shops over a certain size would have to install barcode scanners so we can check ourselves, like weighing the fruit.

[thailiketoo]

The OP did a pretty good job of documenting the rip off done with the cut fruit. I suspected some of this and now I will look closer. I think that those who are giving OP a hard time are missing the point and missing a good opportunity. This kind of thread should be used for educational purposes. It would be very helpful if TVF members who wished to participate would document such rip offs and post them here. The thread would function as a Consumer Awareness bulletin board. All one has to do is become educated via such info that OP has provided and pass over the scams. If enough Expats acted accordingly it could have a very positive result. I didn't see the OP as a rant nor as someone just venting - rather is came off as being constructive. A little consumer awareness is beneficial not something to be chided ...

JD I agree with you but the OP asked two questions. He wrote, "Why is this allowed in this country ? Again, how can they get away with it ? (He was trying to indict all of Thailand for the actions of one store)

I answered those questions. I wrote, "lais·sez–faire noun \ˌle-ˌsā-ˈfer, ˌlā-, -ˌzā-\

economics : a policy that allows businesses to operate with very little interference from the government."

The OP responded not with thanks for answering his two questions. He wrote, "What this have to do with the topic ? We are here talking about a transaction between a business conglomerate and a private customer.

Now tell me what should the OP's response (above in bold) mean to me?

[chrisinth]

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Aw flaming again boys? You can do better. Read my post and try and put together an answer related to what I wrote not what you think of me. This is Thailand. Not the nanny state you are used to. Thailand is Laissez-faire.

If that is the case, then why bother with labels on food packages giving false information to the consumer?

I think the OP has a very good point.

To the OP, take it to the next level within the company, and make sure you mention the Thai Ministry of Commerce with emphasis on the Bureau of Weights and Measures.

Laws and controls do exist for the protection of consumers, but like so many other laws here, they are used sparingly and unless 'flavor of the month', sometimes totally ignored until someone complains about them.

[JesseFrank]

This useful information, we tend to trust the prices to be right, we are used to western practices where they are. Here consumers are treated differently, dubious price tickets abound to catch out the unwary, shelves filled up to empty the box and end up behind whatever ticket, check the barcode numbers now.

I have bought some products in the UK which claim a health benefit of 10%, here they claim 15%! Any claim to get your money, buyer beware is the best way forward, I wish that all shops over a certain size would have to install barcode scanners so we can check ourselves, like weighing the fruit.

In Europe supermarkets it is mandatory to have scales in the fruit and vegetables zone that allow to check the weight of prepacked goods .

Have you ever seen such in Thailand ? Instead they put all scales out of reach of the customer, and if you walk up to the scale and weigh it yourself, you get bad eyed as I experienced yesterday once again.

[GuyL]

------------

I noticed though that all packs were 712 gram. I know this trick and could feel that they were quite light, so I picked 2 packs and put them on the scale. One was 326 gram the other 348 gram, so both less than half their quoted weight.

------------

Have you noticed that 0.712 lbs weighs 0.323 kg (= 323 g)? Are you sure that the weight on the label was not actually written in pounds (0.712)?

I suggest you change your username to ApologistGuyL.

In Thailand grams and kilograms are use, not pounds and ounces.

Usually, yes, but not always. I am not an apologist, but just found that it is a funny coincidence. Next time, take and post a picture of those labels.

Can you give us an example where in Thai supermarkets Pounds and Ounces are used ?

Because the weight is labeled in pounds on imported goods doesn't mean that it is an accepted metric system.

The cut fruit was local fruit packed by the supermarket in question, not imported.

Thai people don't always use the metric system locally. It's particularly noticeable for length measurements. I don't have an example right now for weights of non imported goods, but while it is certainly much less common, it is not impossible that the weight was written in pounds in this case. I don't say that you are not telling us the truth and I don't know why it would have been labelled in pounds there, but it should be quite easy for you to take and post a picture of those labels, just to be sure that it was not the case.

[JesseFrank]

The OP did a pretty good job of documenting the rip off done with the cut fruit. I suspected some of this and now I will look closer. I think that those who are giving OP a hard time are missing the point and missing a good opportunity. This kind of thread should be used for educational purposes. It would be very helpful if TVF members who wished to participate would document such rip offs and post them here. The thread would function as a Consumer Awareness bulletin board. All one has to do is become educated via such info that OP has provided and pass over the scams. If enough Expats acted accordingly it could have a very positive result. I didn't see the OP as a rant nor as someone just venting - rather is came off as being constructive. A little consumer awareness is beneficial not something to be chided ...

JD I agree with you but the OP asked two questions. He wrote, "Why is this allowed in this country ? Again, how can they get away with it ? (He was trying to indict all of Thailand for the actions of one store)

I answered those questions. I wrote, "lais·sez–faire noun \ˌle-ˌsā-ˈfer, ˌlā-, -ˌzā-\

economics : a policy that allows businesses to operate with very little interference from the government."

The OP responded not with thanks for answering his two questions. He wrote, "What this have to do with the topic ? We are here talking about a transaction between a business conglomerate and a private customer.

Now tell me what should the OP's response (above in bold) mean to me?

It would mean that your quote is not related to the practice the OP made people aware of, and if you take that as a flame it further means that you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

Don't bother replying, as this is my last response to you, just go away and stir the pot somewhere else.

[chrisinth]

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Quote

Quote

This useful information, we tend to trust the prices to be right, we are used to western practices where they are. Here consumers are treated differently, dubious price tickets abound to catch out the unwary, shelves filled up to empty the box and end up behind whatever ticket, check the barcode numbers now.

I have bought some products in the UK which claim a health benefit of 10%, here they claim 15%! Any claim to get your money, buyer beware is the best way forward, I wish that all shops over a certain size would have to install barcode scanners so we can check ourselves, like weighing the fruit.

In Europe supermarkets it is mandatory to have scales in the fruit and vegetables zone that allow to check the weight of prepacked goods .

Have you ever seen such in Thailand ? Instead they put all scales out of reach of the customer, and if you walk up to the scale and weigh it yourself, you get bad eyed as I experienced yesterday once again.

Up here in Phitsanulok, it is pretty common in the local markets to see the scales of the sellers being checked. This is done by members of the Bureau of Weights and Measures to ensure the buyer isn't getting ripped off by 'fixed' scales.

If they can do this in public market places, they can also follow up a complaint in a supermarket, their job made easier by labels showing actual weight vs advertised weight. Fair trading comes into question big time.

Assuming no back-handers are involved................

[thailiketoo]

The OP did a pretty good job of documenting the rip off done with the cut fruit. I suspected some of this and now I will look closer. I think that those who are giving OP a hard time are missing the point and missing a good opportunity. This kind of thread should be used for educational purposes. It would be very helpful if TVF members who wished to participate would document such rip offs and post them here. The thread would function as a Consumer Awareness bulletin board. All one has to do is become educated via such info that OP has provided and pass over the scams. If enough Expats acted accordingly it could have a very positive result. I didn't see the OP as a rant nor as someone just venting - rather is came off as being constructive. A little consumer awareness is beneficial not something to be chided ...

JD I agree with you but the OP asked two questions. He wrote, "Why is this allowed in this country ? Again, how can they get away with it ? (He was trying to indict all of Thailand for the actions of one store)

I answered those questions. I wrote, "lais·sez–faire noun \ˌle-ˌsā-ˈfer, ˌlā-, -ˌzā-\

economics : a policy that allows businesses to operate with very little interference from the government."

The OP responded not with thanks for answering his two questions. He wrote, "What this have to do with the topic ? We are here talking about a transaction between a business conglomerate and a private customer.

Now tell me what should the OP's response (above in bold) mean to me?

It would mean that your quote is not related to the practice the OP made people aware of, and if you take that as a flame it further means that you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

Don't bother replying, as this is my last response to you, just go away and stir the pot somewhere else.

You asked, "Why is this allowed in this country ? Again, how can they get away with it ?" ( Trying to indict all of Thailand for the actions of one store)

I responded, "lais·sez–faire noun \ˌle-ˌsā-ˈfer, ˌlā-, -ˌzā-\

economics : a policy that allows businesses to operate with very little interference from the government."

You responded to my answer by writing, "What this have to do with the topic ? We are here talking about a transaction between a business conglomerate and a private customer."

You obviously did not understand my answer. As my answer has everything to do with your question. Your OP did ask a question did it not? It asked, "Why is this allowed in this country ? Again, how can they get away with it ? You wrote it I didn't. If you did not want the question asked why ask it?

[besth]

The consistently wrong weights the OP mention, don't seem to be a mistake, more like intention to deceive.

Quite unnecessary too I would say and not very clever by the supermarket. I would never have thought about

looking at the weight and price per kg on the label, good for the OP to catch that one. Basically, if the

price is fine for me, I'd take it, even knowing that I could get the same cheaper at markets. Very different is

if I think the supermarket is trying to cheat on me, then I just won't buy (I don't shop at the supermarket the OP

hints at anyway, but would be the same for any others).

For the appliances, I don't think it is the same. I could be wrong, but I am almost sure that somewhere in that

"80% discount" there is a small print saying "up to". That is standard practice, same as the "from XXX" also often

used.

Liberal regulations, laissez-faire, do not endorse fraud, which would be the first case. Simplest solution, walk away,

plenty of other options.

[speedtripler]

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Quote

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This useful information, we tend to trust the prices to be right, we are used to western practices where they are. Here consumers are treated differently, dubious price tickets abound to catch out the unwary, shelves filled up to empty the box and end up behind whatever ticket, check the barcode numbers now.

I have bought some products in the UK which claim a health benefit of 10%, here they claim 15%! Any claim to get your money, buyer beware is the best way forward, I wish that all shops over a certain size would have to install barcode scanners so we can check ourselves, like weighing the fruit.

In Europe supermarkets it is mandatory to have scales in the fruit and vegetables zone that allow to check the weight of prepacked goods .

Have you ever seen such in Thailand ? Instead they put all scales out of reach of the customer, and if you walk up to the scale and weigh it yourself, you get bad eyed as I experienced yesterday once again.

Up here in Phitsanulok, it is pretty common in the local markets to see the scales of the sellers being checked. This is done by members of the Bureau of Weights and Measures to ensure the buyer isn't getting ripped off by 'fixed' scales.

If they can do this in public market places, they can also follow up a complaint in a supermarket, their job made easier by labels showing actual weight vs advertised weight. Fair trading comes into question big time.

Assuming no back-handers are involved................

What thailand do you live in ?

[yourauntbob]

The laissez faire slogan was popularized by Vincent de Gournay, a French Physiocrat and intendant of commerce in the 1750s, who is said to have adopted the term from François Quesnay's writings on China.

So the French stole it from the Chinese and the Thais stole it from the French or French Indo China.

Laissez-faire (/ˌlɛseɪˈfɛər-/, French: [lɛsefɛʁ] ( listen)) is an economic environment in which transactions between private parties are free from government restrictions.

Thailand is noe Laissez-faire. There are plenty of rules here, they are just not enforced.

I love how people like to give open markets a bad name by misrepresenting them..............

[Thai at Heart]

I noticed though that all packs were 712 gram. I know this trick and could feel that they were quite light, so I picked 2 packs and put them on the scale. One was 326 gram the other 348 gram, so both less than half their quoted weight.

Have you noticed that 0.712 lbs weighs 0.323 kg (= 323 g)? Are you sure that the weight on the label was not actually written in pounds (0.712)?

As I noticed a side by side fridge, I stopped by and the label on the fridge said 59.900 Baht, where the same fridge is sold inside and elsewhere at 74.990 Bht. Maybe their calculator had an error, but I noticed other items normally 15.900 Bht and after 80% discount only 12.000 Bht

Maybe someone was lost in translation there. It seems that you actually pay (about) 80% of the former price after applying the discount, which is actually (a little bit more than) 20%.

74900 x 0.8 = 59220

15900 x 0.8 = 12720

So, maybe, in these cases, the English text was (voluntarily or not) misleading. It would be interesting to see what was exactly written in Thai.

I suggest you change your username to ApologistGuyL.

In Thailand grams and kilograms are use, not pounds and ounces.

If you wanted to commit a sleight of hand which a customer might not notice you would. Many of these electronic scales can measure on both.

[JDGRUEN]

The OP did a pretty good job of documenting the rip off done with the cut fruit. I suspected some of this and now I will look closer. I think that those who are giving OP a hard time are missing the point and missing a good opportunity. This kind of thread should be used for educational purposes. It would be very helpful if TVF members who wished to participate would document such rip offs and post them here. The thread would function as a Consumer Awareness bulletin board. All one has to do is become educated via such info that OP has provided and pass over the scams. If enough Expats acted accordingly it could have a very positive result. I didn't see the OP as a rant nor as someone just venting - rather is came off as being constructive. A little consumer awareness is beneficial not something to be chided ...

JD I agree with you but the OP asked two questions. He wrote, "Why is this allowed in this country ? Again, how can they get away with it ? (He was trying to indict all of Thailand for the actions of one store)

I answered those questions. I wrote, "lais·sez–faire noun \ˌle-ˌsā-ˈfer, ˌlā-, -ˌzā-\

economics : a policy that allows businesses to operate with very little interference from the government."

The OP responded not with thanks for answering his two questions. He wrote, "What this have to do with the topic ? We are here talking about a transaction between a business conglomerate and a private customer.

Now tell me what should the OP's response (above in bold) mean to me?

Your point is accurate and well taken ... I just focused on what seems to be purposeful mislabeling of the fruit - cheating. I would suggest that OP wrote the questions as he did because he was a bit peeved .... That doesn't take away from the fact that OP's observations were very revealing of rip offs and it is good consumer information ... Yes - we should always practice 'Buyer Beware' in Thailand ... but it is not wrong to expect more from a big retailer. If I want misrepresentation of fruit or vegetables sold by the kilogram all I have to do is go to the local open air market and buy grapes ... the scale in use often does not even function correctly ... I've had to correct the vendors several times ... but they are just small time vendors - not big retailers.

[kkerry]

If the topic starter took some photos of the errant pricing then everyone could decide if they are correct or if it's just another case of lost in translation.

[bobbin]

There are consumer laws, and a consumer protection board, the fact that the laws are not enforced is no excuse. They are not enforced because the enforcers are probably paid off by the businesses that have a monopoly in Thailand.

Not making an excuse, just pointing out that we have to deal with reality as it presents itself rather than how we'd like it to be.

Stupid people pay more, fact of life, no nanny state can prevent that without making life miserable for everyone.

Again, this is not about stupid people or overpriced items, this is about intentionally falsifying price labels.

bring your own scales to the market if your unhappy with the weights weight it yourself at checkout ,see how far you get

im guessing thrown out by security ,the poplice wouldnt entertain such a "crime" especially if it was brought to their attention by a farang

if you think its stealing ,try and make a police report and let us know how it goes .............buy a 1kg of grapes ,take it the copshop with a scales and tell them it only weighs 400g and youve been robbed over half of your grapes

right it's cheating speedtripler..

Weights and measures have been part of commerce for a long long long time.

Next time you buy a bike, better hope the manufacturer didn't short you 100cc.

Edit. Maybe a bad example as most bikes have less cc than the model name states...

Edited April 5, 2014 by bobbin

[kimbathewhitelion]

...and the why we bash Thailand, because, it is Thailand...the humor continues!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[somchaismith]

A large, too low, supermarket, consistently has electrical items and appliances on sale for months on end You can go in and ask to buy a fridge - for example - which is on display, the staff member will smile and take you to the fridge and then feign surprise, saying that the fridge has just sold out. He'll then take you to a different, fridge and try to sell it to you.

Go in a few months later, the original fridge will still be on display. Go and see the same staff member and he will repeat the whole silly facade all over again, feigning surprise, and so on.

[somchaismith]

Anyway, here's to the OP for the heads up. Will have to weigh all the packaged meat, too, from now on.

[JesseFrank]

If the topic starter took some photos of the errant pricing then everyone could decide if they are correct or if it's just another case of lost in translation.

Amd how would you determine the real weight from a picture ?

Ah I know, putting it on the scale an picture it in a way that both the scale and the label are clearly visible at the same time, which is actually near to impossible.

But I'm sure that even if it was possible, you would claim that it was just this single pack that had the error, and ask me to picture all 40 packs one by one.

I have a better idea, if you want to dispute my claims, go check it for yourself and post pictures to proof my lies.