xpat pattaya vs phuket

[NamKangMan]

It depends on what you like about a place, visited Phuket and Pattaya about 1995 for the first time

Did not like Pattaya but really liked Phuket and new i would return if only for a holiday

In 1995 phuket was quieter and the people were more friendly but when i returned in 2006 i still

liked phuket and decided to retire and live here full time, its no problem getting to any destination

with its own international airport

Personally if i was going to live anywhere else in Thailand it would be Khao Lak, even thought about

buying a second home there, but decided not to because my wife does not like driving and there may

be a time when i am not able to and its to far away to look after rental properties

So we will stay in Rawai, the best area to live in Phuket and a lot of expats agree

Pattaya has changed a lot in 20 years, as Phuket has. Unfortunately, Phuket's change hasn't been for the good.

[nedkellylives]

It depends on what you like about a place, visited Phuket and Pattaya about 1995 for the first time

Did not like Pattaya but really liked Phuket and new i would return if only for a holiday

In 1995 phuket was quieter and the people were more friendly but when i returned in 2006 i still

liked phuket and decided to retire and live here full time, its no problem getting to any destination

with its own international airport

Personally if i was going to live anywhere else in Thailand it would be Khao Lak, even thought about

buying a second home there, but decided not to because my wife does not like driving and there may

be a time when i am not able to and its to far away to look after rental properties

So we will stay in Rawai, the best area to live in Phuket and a lot of expats agree

Pattaya has changed a lot in 20 years, as Phuket has. Unfortunately, Phuket's change hasn't been for the good.

everywhere is the same things do not get better as time goes on

I liked Phuket before and i still like it , but not patong

Tourists and sexpats are the only ones who hang around there on average

Are you saying Pattaya that started as a R&R destination in the Vietnam war has changed for the better

More bar girls there for sure, and some are not woman thats for sure, they visited our neighbor when we lived in Chalong

[KarenBravo]

everywhere is the same things do not get better as time goes on

I liked Phuket before and i still like it , but not patong

That kinda depends who you ask.

If you ask local, Phuket families if they want to turn the clock back, you'll get a resounding "No".

They don't want to go back to being poor. Many are dollar millionaires, now.

[hansgruber]

everywhere is the same things do not get better as time goes on

I liked Phuket before and i still like it , but not patong

That kinda depends who you ask.

If you ask local, Phuket families if they want to turn the clock back, you'll get a resounding "No".

They don't want to go back to being poor. Many are dollar millionaires, now.

The Muslim population of Surin/Bangtao, Kamala also agree with you.

Many stories of these families with land now sold out to developers.

From dirt poor to 200 million baht in the bank.

[steelepulse]

everywhere is the same things do not get better as time goes on

I liked Phuket before and i still like it , but not patong

That kinda depends who you ask.

If you ask local, Phuket families if they want to turn the clock back, you'll get a resounding "No".

They don't want to go back to being poor. Many are dollar millionaires, now.

The Muslim population of Surin/Bangtao, Kamala also agree with you.

Many stories of these families with land now sold out to developers.

From dirt poor to 200 million baht in the bank.

This is exactly my argument every time there's a whinge about foreigners owning all the best land in the Kingdom. Simple answer is, if it's never sold by the locals, foreigners will never own it.

Back to the topic, Never been to Pattaya and don't plan on going.

[NamKangMan]

everywhere is the same things do not get better as time goes on

I liked Phuket before and i still like it , but not patong

That kinda depends who you ask.

If you ask local, Phuket families if they want to turn the clock back, you'll get a resounding "No".

They don't want to go back to being poor. Many are dollar millionaires, now.

The Muslim population of Surin/Bangtao, Kamala also agree with you.

Many stories of these families with land now sold out to developers.

From dirt poor to 200 million baht in the bank.

This is exactly my argument every time there's a whinge about foreigners owning all the best land in the Kingdom. Simple answer is, if it's never sold by the locals, foreigners will never own it.

Back to the topic, Never been to Pattaya and don't plan on going.

You should go to Pattaya, just once, to ride on the baht buses. They are a real tourist attraction for someone who is from Phuket.

[NamKangMan]

everywhere is the same things do not get better as time goes on

I liked Phuket before and i still like it , but not patong

That kinda depends who you ask.

If you ask local, Phuket families if they want to turn the clock back, you'll get a resounding "No".

They don't want to go back to being poor. Many are dollar millionaires, now.

The Muslim population of Surin/Bangtao, Kamala also agree with you.

Many stories of these families with land now sold out to developers.

From dirt poor to 200 million baht in the bank.

Trouble is, they blow all the money and then expect to make a living out of ripping off and scamming foreigners.

[hansgruber]

everywhere is the same things do not get better as time goes on

I liked Phuket before and i still like it , but not patong

That kinda depends who you ask.

If you ask local, Phuket families if they want to turn the clock back, you'll get a resounding "No".

They don't want to go back to being poor. Many are dollar millionaires, now.

The Muslim population of Surin/Bangtao, Kamala also agree with you.

Many stories of these families with land now sold out to developers.

From dirt poor to 200 million baht in the bank.

Trouble is, they blow all the money and then expect to make a living out of ripping off and scamming foreigners.

I don't agree with this.

In my ten years here, I have never known of anyone being ripped off by a Thai.

Yes I hear stories about wives and girlfriends ripping men off but that's in every society.

It's always a fly by night farang ripping off other farangs. I've been burnt twice in Thailand for goods or services and it's always been a farang owned company.

As for the Muslims blowing their money. I've only seen them flourish and use the money to build on another parcel of land.

[NamKangMan]

@ hansgruber

I wasn't talking about the Muslim population, specifically. I was talking about all the Thai's that sold their farms on Phuket, decades ago, blew all the money, and now sit in tuk-tuks everyday, for example, thinking Phuket still owes them another piece of the pie.

[LivinginKata]

You should go to Pattaya, just once, to ride on the baht buses. They are a real tourist attraction for someone who is from Phuket.

Yes, last time we were in Pattaya parked up car at hotel and used Baht buses. Trouble was that just about every trip the driver told us to get out as he had picked up a private hire. Actually happened twice during one ride back to our hotel. I suppose it's all part of the baht bus charm, and it is cheap compared with Phuket's tuk tuks.

[NamKangMan]

You should go to Pattaya, just once, to ride on the baht buses. They are a real tourist attraction for someone who is from Phuket.

Yes, last time we were in Pattaya parked up car at hotel and used Baht buses. Trouble was that just about every trip the driver told us to get out as he had picked up a private hire. Actually happened twice during one ride back to our hotel. I suppose it's all part of the baht bus charm, and it is cheap compared with Phuket's tuk tuks.

I'm guessing that would have been high season, with larger groups of men traveling together.

An empty baht bus pulls over for you and you hop in. The driver is only getting 10 baht from you, but a group of 12 guys walk straight out of a hotel and wave him down. He kicks you out and takes the 12 guys, because it's more money for him.

It has happened to me also, but it's not that common. When I'm there visiting friends, I usually wave to the baht buses that already have a few onboard, to minimise this happening.

For 10 baht, and 30 second wait - it's no big deal.

[LivinginKata]

Yes, last time we were in Pattaya parked up car at hotel and used Baht buses. Trouble was that just about every trip the driver told us to get out as he had picked up a private hire. Actually happened twice during one ride back to our hotel. I suppose it's all part of the baht bus charm, and it is cheap compared with Phuket's tuk tuks.

I'm guessing that would have been high season, with larger groups of men traveling together.

An empty baht bus pulls over for you and you hop in. The driver is only getting 10 baht from you, but a group of 12 guys walk straight out of a hotel and wave him down. He kicks you out and takes the 12 guys, because it's more money for him.

It has happened to me also, but it's not that common. When I'm there visiting friends, I usually wave to the baht buses that already have a few onboard, to minimise this happening.

For 10 baht, and 30 second wait - it's no big deal.

In every case it seemed to be a couple of people (usually Russian ladies) asking the bus to go where they wanted. Buses had plenty of Thai people on board who left without comment. One young Thai lady was quite upset when told to leave, had no more money to get home. My wife paid her fare on the next bus passing by. And we were paying 20 baht - yes, I know it should be 10 baht, and my wife is Thai, but we were on holiday, why argue.

[NamKangMan]

Yes, last time we were in Pattaya parked up car at hotel and used Baht buses. Trouble was that just about every trip the driver told us to get out as he had picked up a private hire. Actually happened twice during one ride back to our hotel. I suppose it's all part of the baht bus charm, and it is cheap compared with Phuket's tuk tuks.

I'm guessing that would have been high season, with larger groups of men traveling together.

An empty baht bus pulls over for you and you hop in. The driver is only getting 10 baht from you, but a group of 12 guys walk straight out of a hotel and wave him down. He kicks you out and takes the 12 guys, because it's more money for him.

It has happened to me also, but it's not that common. When I'm there visiting friends, I usually wave to the baht buses that already have a few onboard, to minimise this happening.

For 10 baht, and 30 second wait - it's no big deal.

In every case it seemed to be a couple of people (usually Russian ladies) asking the bus to go where they wanted. Buses had plenty of Thai people on board who left without comment. One young Thai lady was quite upset when told to leave, had no more money to get home. My wife paid her fare on the next bus passing by. And we were paying 20 baht - yes, I know it should be 10 baht, and my wife is Thai, but we were on holiday, why argue.

I can't say that's happened to me. They must have had a long distance to travel, thus making it profitable for the driver.

The baht bus system in Pattaya is pretty good. It moves tens of thousands of locals, tourists and expats all over Pattaya, 24/7.

For someone who has only holiday, or only lived on Phuket, and had to put up with the tuk-tuk BS here, they would be surprised to see the baht bus system in operation up there.

Like I said, for some, it would be a tourist attraction in itself.

[WaywardWind]

Are you saying Pattaya that started as a R&R destination in the Vietnam war has changed for the better

Pattaya was not an R&R destination during the war; Bangkok was, and it may well be that some of the guys went down to Pattaya during their week, but I think the majority never made it out of Bangkok. There were USAF guys at Utapao, and I would assume they went to Pattaya when they had time off.

[davetrout]

Are you saying Pattaya that started as a R&R destination in the Vietnam war has changed for the better

Pattaya was not an R&R destination during the war; Bangkok was, and it may well be that some of the guys went down to Pattaya during their week, but I think the majority never made it out of Bangkok. There were USAF guys at Utapao, and I would assume they went to Pattaya when they had time off.

l thought the american army went in there in big numbers even started of building accomdation for there soldiers

[NamKangMan]

@ davetrout

"started of building accomdation for there soldiers" - they did. The buildings were called, tents.

[WaywardWind]

Pattaya was not an R&R destination during the war; Bangkok was, and it may well be that some of the guys went down to Pattaya during their week, but I think the majority never made it out of Bangkok. There were USAF guys at Utapao, and I would assume they went to Pattaya when they had time off.

l thought the american army went in there in big numbers even started of building accomdation for there soldiers

Nope.

There's good thread on this with many comments from guys who served at Utapao and also from folks who went to Bangkok for their R&R.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/358302-did-america-create-pattaya/

[Tchooptip]

@nedkellylives

You've been to Pattaya once, and that was 20 years ago, and you know what it's like now from You Tube.

You had a holiday recently in Cambodia and saw some temples, and all the "sexpats" are moving there.

I won't even ask you about Laos - you have obviously never been there, but, all the "sexpats" are moving there as well, according to you.

"The genuine expats i have met anyway" - please give your definition of a "genuine expat?"

genuine expat !

[Tchooptip]

Expat refers to anyone working or not who have made Thailand their home

These same people have invested in property etc and are self funded

they intend to stop here permanently at no cost to Thailand

Thats why people can get retirement as well as busines visas here and have the extended yearly

Because they are considered expats by the immagration dept and Thai govt

You don't have to have a retirement or business visa, or invest in property, to be an expat.

I'm living here on tourist visas. The only criteria I can't meet is being over 50 years of age. I also prefer to rent, due to the land ownership laws here, and also I'm single and self funded.

Does that make me any lesser expat?

Absolutely, you are a tourist whether you like it or not ! OK a long time one , yes, but nevertheless a tourist

[NamKangMan]

Expat refers to anyone working or not who have made Thailand their home

These same people have invested in property etc and are self funded

they intend to stop here permanently at no cost to Thailand

Thats why people can get retirement as well as busines visas here and have the extended yearly

Because they are considered expats by the immagration dept and Thai govt

You don't have to have a retirement or business visa, or invest in property, to be an expat.

I'm living here on tourist visas. The only criteria I can't meet is being over 50 years of age. I also prefer to rent, due to the land ownership laws here, and also I'm single and self funded.

Does that make me any lesser expat?

Absolutely, you are a tourist whether you like it or not ! OK a long time one , yes, but nevertheless a tourist

Is that because a little sticker in my passport says so????

What about the day I turn 50 years of age and get a retirement visa - does that little sticker instantly make me an "expat" when just yesterday I was a "tourist?"

Say the Thai Government were to change the age of issuing retirement visas from 50 to 55 years of age. Does that mean Thailand has suddenly lost thousands of "expats" but gained thousands of "tourists" that are counted four times a year. This would be a great way to boost Thailand's tourism statistics?

That little sticker in your passport is just the Thai way of classifying a foreigner - that's all. It's not a true reflection of the reality of who is actually living here and their wealth, or otherwise.

As I have stated before, I can do everything on a tourist visa that anyone on a retirement visa can do, except for getting a 5 year driving/riding licence - I can only get a 1 year licence.

I can have a bank account, buy property, lease property, have utility bills in my name, own a vehicle etc. In fact, with the 800,000 baht in a bank or proof of income paperwork and the 90 day reporting etc - in many ways, I think the tourist visa is easier, and cheaper.

At the end of the day, someone here on a retirement visa has the same rights, under Thai Law, as someone here on a tourist visa, and for a foreigner, that's pretty much - zero.

I don't think using a Thai sticker in one's passport to be an accurate way of assessing whether an individual is a "expat" or "tourist" in Thailand.

Edited April 24, 2014 by NamKangMan

[LivinginKata]

I think of a 'tourist as a short stay visitor. An 'expat' is a long stay visitor. We are all 'visitors' unless have a resident's permit, and I have never met anyone with that hard to acquire permit.

[NamKangMan]

I think of a 'tourist as a short stay visitor. An 'expat' is a long stay visitor. We are all 'visitors' unless have a resident's permit, and I have never met anyone with that hard to acquire permit.

Exactly my point LIK.

In my opinion, it's not about if you have married a Thai women, if you have bought a house here, if you have invested in business here, if you own a car here etc etc - and it's certainly not about what the sticker in your passport says.

It's about how long you stay here.

Someone staying here for 2 months, maybe a backpacker, is a tourists.

How can you classify someone staying here for 2 years, on the same visa, just issued several times, as also the same tourist?

When the global financial crisis hit, a lot of guys couldn't qualify for their usual retirement visa, so they just stayed here on tourist visas, but they still stayed here.

[nedkellylives]

I think of a 'tourist as a short stay visitor. An 'expat' is a long stay visitor. We are all 'visitors' unless have a resident's permit, and I have never met anyone with that hard to acquire permit.

Exactly my point LIK.

In my opinion, it's not about if you have married a Thai women, if you have bought a house here, if you have invested in business here, if you own a car here etc etc - and it's certainly not about what the sticker in your passport says.

It's about how long you stay here.

Someone staying here for 2 months, maybe a backpacker, is a tourists.

How can you classify someone staying here for 2 years, on the same visa, just issued several times, as also the same tourist?

When the global financial crisis hit, a lot of guys couldn't qualify for their usual retirement visa, so they just stayed here on tourist visas, but they still stayed here.

Why could they not stay here on a retirement visa, because they did not have the required 800,000 baht for a retirement visa and proof they

had sufficient money to live here without working illegally on a tourist visa

A lot even now have no visa and just overstay till they get caught or leave Thailand and pay the maximum fine of 20K baht

Every time there is a crackdown these people disappear into the woodwork until its over, and there are lots of them

[NamKangMan]

I think of a 'tourist as a short stay visitor. An 'expat' is a long stay visitor. We are all 'visitors' unless have a resident's permit, and I have never met anyone with that hard to acquire permit.

Exactly my point LIK.

In my opinion, it's not about if you have married a Thai women, if you have bought a house here, if you have invested in business here, if you own a car here etc etc - and it's certainly not about what the sticker in your passport says.

It's about how long you stay here.

Someone staying here for 2 months, maybe a backpacker, is a tourists.

How can you classify someone staying here for 2 years, on the same visa, just issued several times, as also the same tourist?

When the global financial crisis hit, a lot of guys couldn't qualify for their usual retirement visa, so they just stayed here on tourist visas, but they still stayed here.

Why could they not stay here on a retirement visa, because they did not have the required 800,000 baht for a retirement visa and proof they

had sufficient money to live here without working illegally on a tourist visa

A lot even now have no visa and just overstay till they get caught or leave Thailand and pay the maximum fine of 20K baht

Every time there is a crackdown these people disappear into the woodwork until its over, and there are lots of them

Their portfolios took a big hit, and yes, they could not meet the retirement visa criteria. However, they still lived here, legally, on tourists visas. They didn't overstay.

Sure, their lifestyle also took a hit as well, but if a Thai can live on Phuket on a salary of just 9,000 baht a month, a foreigner can do the same, although most of the retirees that took a hit, never got hit that bad.

You do pose an interesting question though Ned, is an overstayer still considered an "expat?"

Edited April 24, 2014 by NamKangMan

[nedkellylives]

I think of a 'tourist as a short stay visitor. An 'expat' is a long stay visitor. We are all 'visitors' unless have a resident's permit, and I have never met anyone with that hard to acquire permit.

Exactly my point LIK.

In my opinion, it's not about if you have married a Thai women, if you have bought a house here, if you have invested in business here, if you own a car here etc etc - and it's certainly not about what the sticker in your passport says.

It's about how long you stay here.

Someone staying here for 2 months, maybe a backpacker, is a tourists.

How can you classify someone staying here for 2 years, on the same visa, just issued several times, as also the same tourist?

When the global financial crisis hit, a lot of guys couldn't qualify for their usual retirement visa, so they just stayed here on tourist visas, but they still stayed here.

Why could they not stay here on a retirement visa, because they did not have the required 800,000 baht for a retirement visa and proof they

had sufficient money to live here without working illegally on a tourist visa

A lot even now have no visa and just overstay till they get caught or leave Thailand and pay the maximum fine of 20K baht

Every time there is a crackdown these people disappear into the woodwork until its over, and there are lots of them

Their portfolios took a big hit, and yes, they could not meet the retirement visa criteria. However, they still lived here, legally, on tourists visas. They didn't overstay.

Sure, their lifestyle also took a hit as well, but if a Thai can live on Phuket on a salary of just 9,000 baht a month, a foreigner can do the same, although most of the retirees that took a hit, never got hit that bad.

You do pose an interesting question though Ned, is an overstayer still considered an "expat?"

How many people do you know including yourself who live on 9K baht a month certainly no one who posts on the Internet

If you are a expat as you claim you must have met plenty of people who overstay and work without a work permit

Last time the DSI had a crackdown on overstays they caught over 80 at last count

At that time we went to Nai Harn beach most mornings to walk and excercise the dog, every morning we saw between 25 and 30 regulars

As soon as the DSI had their crackdown we never saw more than 5 regular people on the beach, probably all died of heart attacks

[LivinginKata]

Off topic post removed.

[NamKangMan]

@ nedkellylives

Prior to being caught, were they considered to be "expats" and after being caught, if the flew straight back in, after paying their 20,000 baht fine, did they resume being expats?

So, I suppose, the question is, the guys that don't give a damn about the sticker in their passport, but live here anyway, and just overstay, are they "expats" or "tourists?"

[nedkellylives]

@ nedkellylives

Prior to being caught, were they considered to be "expats" and after being caught, if the flew straight back in, after paying their 20,000 baht fine, did they resume being expats?

So, I suppose, the question is, the guys that don't give a damn about the sticker in their passport, but live here anyway, and just overstay, are they "expats" or "tourists?"

Should get a automatic 6 month prison sentence as well for being illegall immigrants, see how many return then

Currenty if arrested for overstay they are locked up untill someone pays their airfare out if they do not have the money

themselves, which a lot don't

try overstaying in some other countries and see how you go, you go behind bars actually straight away, no corrupt payments to get out

Illegall immigrants are not expats except in your opinion

[NamKangMan]

@ nedkellylives

Prior to being caught, were they considered to be "expats" and after being caught, if the flew straight back in, after paying their 20,000 baht fine, did they resume being expats?

So, I suppose, the question is, the guys that don't give a damn about the sticker in their passport, but live here anyway, and just overstay, are they "expats" or "tourists?"

Should get a automatic 6 month prison sentence as well for being illegall immigrants, see how many return then

Currenty if arrested for overstay they are locked up untill someone pays their airfare out if they do not have the money

themselves, which a lot don't

try overstaying in some other countries and see how you go, you go behind bars actually straight away, no corrupt payments to get out

Illegall immigrants are not expats except in your opinion

So, at what point does an "overstayer" become an "illegal immigrant?" These people are not working here.

What about all the Burmese labourers here. They are foreigners, working in a job reserved for Thai's only, but the Thai's are happy for them to be here, so they can exploit them.

Why would Thailand lock up an overstayer for 6 months? That turns a money maker (20,000 baht fine) into a financial loss. That's not how Thailand operates, especially in relation to foreigners.

Even overstayers still contribute to the Thai economy.

[stevenl]

This definition arguing has no bearing at all on the subject at hand.