I am divorced. Can I force my wife to sell the house I paid for?

[aussiejon1604]

Hi all.

This might be a case of shutting the gate after the horse has bolted but it's worth asking.

I divorced my Thai wife a few months back. During our marriage I bought a house for us to live in and after accepting some bad advice, I put it in her name at the time of the purchase. I do remember jointly signing at the land office for the property and our lawyer suggested it was so it would need our joint signatures again in the future if the house was to be sold again.

My question is this. Even now that we have been divorced for 4 months, do I have any right to the house? I have read that accumulated assets during the marriage should have been divided. Is this the case? Bad legal advise in the past has cost me. If it should have been divided, do I still have any legal rights to promote it with a decent lawyer?

If anyone can put me straight on this it would help. If there is still a chance, can someone suggest a straight up, no bulls_hit lawyer who will help me achieve it.

Thanks

[rucus7]

Because your signature may be required to sell the house. It may not mean your are entitled to any of the proceeds. if she is happy in the house , why would she sell it? Finding a good lawyer can be a challenge. If you have no lease you may be out of luck.

I hope it is resolved to your satisfaction.

[Langsuan Man]

You can't force her to sell but a judge could but it doesn't seem to me from your post that you went through a court but just signed the divorce papers at the Amphur

If so a lawyer may be able to assist but I kind of doubt it since as they say that horse has already bolted out the barn

[Jip99]

There is the legal side and there is the practical side.

The legal side; you have rights and a judge would now doubt obtain a court order enforcing sale - probably cost you 30k+.

On the practical side; you haven't got a cat in h3lls chance if your ex-wife wants to sit tight and advertise the house for sale at 10m Baht (who whatever inflated price is relevant).

This happened to a TV member in Hua Hin where he got the court order and the ex-wife put a 2" sq sign in the window - FOR SALE 8m Baht - the house was worth about 4m. I believe it is still for sale.

[bigbamboo]

In the event of a divorce all assets (and debts) accrued during the marriage are split 50/50. That at least is the Thai law, not dissimilar to most places in the world.

Issues can occur if it a family home in which case the children and goodness knows who else if they register it as their address are a consideration.

This being Thailand I'm not entirely certain whether there is any obligation on the wife's part as the owner to sell the property and share the proceeds or else come up with cash equivalent. I did hear of a case of a guy who like yourself got divorced and lost house only to find a new farang boyfriend had moved in within a few weeks. No doubt in time the house will be let or sold on the QT and she will get the new cash cow to buy her another one.

Edited April 16, 2014 by bigbamboo

[ThaidDown]

I divorced my Thai wife a few months back

I thought that the divorce agreement laid out how assets would be allocated. Have not gone through a Thai divorce (yet?) so cannot be sure.

Check your copy of the agreement.

I do remember jointly signing at the land office for the property

What you signed could have been a lease or usufruct agreement, if so it would have been recorded on the Chanote.

It could also have been a declaration that the monies for the purchase of the property were wholly your wifes.

Definitely legal advice required. In the first instance maybe try Thaivisa 'Ask the Lawyer'

[dutchisaan]

Why don't you post this in ask the lawyer subform?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jip99]

In the event of a divorce all assets (and debts) accrued during the marriage are split 50/50. That at least is the Thai law, not dissimilar to most places in the world.

Issues can occur if it a family home in which case the children and goodness knows who else if they register it as their address are a consideration.

This being Thailand I'm not entirely certain whether there is any obligation on the wife's part as the owner to sell the property and share the proceeds or else come up with cash equivalent. I did hear of a case of a guy who like yourself got divorced and lost house only to find a new farang boyfriend had moved in within a few weeks. No doubt in time the house will be let or sold on the QT and she will get the new cash cow to buy her another one.

Are you familiar with sin somros/sin suan tua ?

Good point by the previous poster about posting in the 'ask the lawyer' section - the OP (like me) had not thought of that......

[nonthaburial]

This subject has been done to death a million times over. Accept it the law in Thailand that foreigners cannot own land or houses, even owning a Condo in your name is an issue with the 49/51% rulings.

I am not saying all, but reading on here, a lot of Thai girls are more self estate agent oriented than anything else, and they use their home country law to their benefit. And yet daily we read these reports of farangs being scammed by their Thai, wives, girlfriends, auntie , uncles you name it and it has been proven.

I was divorced from a Filipina five years ago, she bought the land in a nice upmarket area of Manila ( ok I opened the back door for ridicule there) and in 95 I built a very nice 300 sm two storey property with three bedrooms, fully marbled, all wood was Narra, I even employed a British construction engineer friend who was quite happy to visit Manila every three weeks from HK to ensure said building was being built to my standards, which included size of rebars etc etc. That house is flood proof, typhoon proof and earthquake proof and has proved it. Saying that, if he did not visit this would not have happened as the constructor tried to save money at every turn. But that another story.

Most was paid in cash, but I did take out a 1m Peso mortgage simply because with such a mortgage I could write into the deeds that it took two signatures ( mine and hers) for any sale to take place. But we are talking of the Philippines which listens and operate on US law. As for Thailand they operate on jungle law. And a total waste of rations. As the OP and many others who were not up to speed have found out.

[simon43]

If you went through a 'quickie' divorce at the Amphur, then the division of joint assets (ie - acquired after legal marriage) would have been dealt with and stipulated in the divorce contract.

So,,, what does your Amphur divorce contract say about division of joint assets? Who gets what?

Simon

[aussiejon1604]

Thanks all for replying. I new it was a stab in the dark shot and it's probably best to put it down as an expensive experience. No need to place blame. I went in with my eyes open and suffered the consequences as a result.

I'm not sure however how a post applicable to the Philippines is relative in a Thai forum nor the one that appears to be written in German???

Hopefully I'm not the only one that see's the anomalies???

Best part is I'm still laughing and rocking in the free world. (excuse the pun)

[wooloomooloo]

This might be a case of shutting the gate after the horse has bolted but it's worth asking.

Erm, not really. You were right first time, too late.

For the benefit of others that go blindly down the road, it's not Thailand's fault or your wife's or girlfriends - it yours. I'm sure you already know, but don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

You can only live in one house, drive one car, ride one motorcycle and live one life at a time.

[pigeonjake]

This subject has been done to death a million times over. Accept it the law in Thailand that foreigners cannot own land or houses, even owning a Condo in your name is an issue with the 49/51% rulings.

I am not saying all, but reading on here, a lot of Thai girls are more self estate agent oriented than anything else, and they use their home country law to their benefit. And yet daily we read these reports of farangs being scammed by their Thai, wives, girlfriends, auntie , uncles you name it and it has been proven.

I was divorced from a Filipina five years ago, she bought the land in a nice upmarket area of Manila ( ok I opened the back door for ridicule there) and in 95 I built a very nice 300 sm two storey property with three bedrooms, fully marbled, all wood was Narra, I even employed a British construction engineer friend who was quite happy to visit Manila every three weeks from HK to ensure said building was being built to my standards, which included size of rebars etc etc. That house is flood proof, typhoon proof and earthquake proof and has proved it. Saying that, if he did not visit this would not have happened as the constructor tried to save money at every turn. But that another story.

Most was paid in cash, but I did take out a 1m Peso mortgage simply because with such a mortgage I could write into the deeds that it took two signatures ( mine and hers) for any sale to take place. But we are talking of the Philippines which listens and operate on US law. As for Thailand they operate on jungle law. And a total waste of rations. As the OP and many others who were not up to speed have found out.

thers also a lot of us that havnt been scamed,,

and when i was in phils,, to be honest i didnt feel safe,,,

but each to there own

[slipperylobster]

This subject has been done to death a million times over. Accept it the law in Thailand that foreigners cannot own land or houses, even owning a Condo in your name is an issue with the 49/51% rulings.

I am not saying all, but reading on here, a lot of Thai girls are more self estate agent oriented than anything else, and they use their home country law to their benefit. And yet daily we read these reports of farangs being scammed by their Thai, wives, girlfriends, auntie , uncles you name it and it has been proven.

I was divorced from a Filipina five years ago, she bought the land in a nice upmarket area of Manila ( ok I opened the back door for ridicule there) and in 95 I built a very nice 300 sm two storey property with three bedrooms, fully marbled, all wood was Narra, I even employed a British construction engineer friend who was quite happy to visit Manila every three weeks from HK to ensure said building was being built to my standards, which included size of rebars etc etc. That house is flood proof, typhoon proof and earthquake proof and has proved it. Saying that, if he did not visit this would not have happened as the constructor tried to save money at every turn. But that another story.

Most was paid in cash, but I did take out a 1m Peso mortgage simply because with such a mortgage I could write into the deeds that it took two signatures ( mine and hers) for any sale to take place. But we are talking of the Philippines which listens and operate on US law. As for Thailand they operate on jungle law. And a total waste of rations. As the OP and many others who were not up to speed have found out.

thers also a lot of us that havnt been scamed,,

and when i was in phils,, to be honest i didnt feel safe,,,

but each to there own

One can never be safe, if they rush forward with their money...no matter where. I caste no stones, as I built a home in the Philippines as well...but less than 15 thousand dollars....just outside subic.

Agreed, In most places, Thailand appears to be safer. Walking the streets late at night in Manila...or many other towns and villages, can get you into trouble. Seems people are alot more desperate there. But the bar lady scenario is pretty much the same. Although Thai ladies seem to get much more assistance and advice from the pros.

[slipperylobster]

Now here is the thing...many ladies already purchased their home, but run out and find a farang to get credit to pay it off. I am thinking the credit might come from a bank, but more than likely, as the lady is usually blacklisted from getting credit...she is forced to go to those crazy Chinese loan sharks. The sharks grab the paper (title). Now the lady owes double the value of the loan after one year of missing payments. This is why they look for foreign men to come in with that 2 million. Or they get married and sign for a loan/perhaps from a second loan shark. The farang never even sees the paper(title) ..but since he was married and signed with the gal for the second loan on the house....he now bears responsibility. Perhaps he does not even know about the first loan (from the bank)...the second loan (from the money lender to keep the bank from snatching the house back due to default) and now here he is paying for the third loan.

There are two cases I know of where the new farang has no clue about the history of the property.

Well...not saying this is your particular problem...but these gals get loan sharks involved who are now holding the papers. How would the courts give you the house with a history of loan defaults...near repossession, and third parties holding title?

[slipperylobster]

...and yes..... many gals I know with farang husbands are getting second and third mortgages on the car the farang bought as well. Many of which are loans from money lenders. The husbands still have no idea. From all appearances, when these guys show up after working in their countries for 8 years and paying all the bills, they (husband and wife) are now 2 times more in debt than last year.

These are just a few ideas/cases that should be thrown out. Not your case. But perhaps some investigating might turn up many outstanding loans....not just to the bank.

[laolover88]

Of course the girls just lie and the authorities, where a farang is concerned, believe them.

Many years ago, very many, I bought a house with a girl to whom I was married. Not expensive 1m B...House in 2 names. yellow book etc..Was Sin Ros..went to the UK for a month, came back no sign of wife. Went to the Land Office to see the papers.. Oh Siam Commercial Bank have charge on the house now! Went to Siam Commercial Bank. Yes we gave her 500K, with house as security. She said she was single and had owned house for many years!! No checking of any documents, marriage certificate. Not worth the hassle and money to go to court. Beware!

[ezzra]

this situation is indeed a pickle... and the only people who will make money out of it will the

lawyers, also, I don't think 30k will be enough to solve this issue... speaking from bitter experience..

[richardathuahin]

Better call 'SAUL'

[asean]

Chances are what you signed at the land office when you bought the house was a declaration that all the money used to buy the house was all your wife's and that you had no claim to any money that you may have gifted her...... But...... there have been many cases where the judge has ordered the marital assets sold and divided. The wife will be given a year to sell the house and if not sold in a year the court will sell the house.

[tingtongteesood]

I believe under Thai law you are entitled to a 50 / 50 split of any assets from during the time of your marriage. So technically half of it is still yours ( sucks if you paid for 100% of it, but better than nothing ) so by law she has to either buy you out, reach an agreement you are happy with ( such as she pays x amount per month till x amount has been paid off ), or sell the house and you get your 50% of the price. I would consult aa professional lawyer in this matter sir.

[larsjohnsson]

And every day new farangs buy land/houses for their girlfriends & wifes. Even the ones that read all the stories here. Because their girl is different from the others;)

Edited April 17, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[TheAceFace]

The key is to get a house with a mortgage on it if possible, at the end of the day if it went to court and your proof was all the payments going from your account and earnings....you will be granted equal share should the house be sold. Also during the payment terms (if still paying it off) there is a good chance your missus can not screw you over. If anything you have power over them.

[Krataiboy]

At one time, a Thai woman with a falang husband had no right to own land or property. The law was changed some years back to restore this privilege, on condition (a) that the house was in the Thai woman's name and ( the money used for the purchase was hers. Hence the requirement for a falang husband to pretend the money belonged to the missus and sign away his rights to the house as part of the registration process. .

While the Thai constitution embraces the concept of all marital property purchased after the marriage being shared in the case of a divorce, in reality the house is treated as the exclusive property of the wife (unless the husband has been named specifically on the registration documents as the owner - and even if he has, he cannot legally own the land on which the property stands, so its a Catch 22 situation).

I hate to be pessimistic about your situation, but I have yet to hear of any falang who has gone to court and been granted half or any other percentage of the value of a house bought with his money in his wife's name When - if? - it happens, we will all have a useful precedent. Otherwise, it's a case of walk away and put the loss down to experience. Once bitten. . .

[Slinky1958]

Mmmm same story time and time sorry to hear

but if you got proof and of payments on the house and a lease on the the land its yours as a marital assett and should have been split 50 50

[robert888d]

T.I.T. This is Thailand you cannot force her to sell the house!

[slipperylobster]

Last time..

a smart lady would just pawn/take out a second mortgage and desert the house....before any divorce or legal action.

She does that on her own...without you.

[TheAceFace]

Last time..

a smart lady would just pawn/take out a second mortgage and desert the house....before any divorce or legal action.

She does that on her own...without you.

In order for her to do that, I am guessing the guarantor would also have to sign the documents to re-mortgage? could be wrong?

[larsjohnsson]

The key is to get a house with a mortgage on it if possible, at the end of the day if it went to court and your proof was all the payments going from your account and earnings....you will be granted equal share should the house be sold. Also during the payment terms (if still paying it off) there is a good chance your missus can not screw you over. If anything you have power over them.

The key is to rent a house

[bigbamboo]

In the event of a divorce all assets (and debts) accrued during the marriage are split 50/50. That at least is the Thai law, not dissimilar to most places in the world.

Issues can occur if it a family home in which case the children and goodness knows who else if they register it as their address are a consideration.

This being Thailand I'm not entirely certain whether there is any obligation on the wife's part as the owner to sell the property and share the proceeds or else come up with cash equivalent. I did hear of a case of a guy who like yourself got divorced and lost house only to find a new farang boyfriend had moved in within a few weeks. No doubt in time the house will be let or sold on the QT and she will get the new cash cow to buy her another one.

Are you familiar with sin somros/sin suan tua ?

Good point by the previous poster about posting in the 'ask the lawyer' section - the OP (like me) had not thought of that......

I am familiar with the problems others I know have had with Thai lawyers and Thai property laws and realise how fortunate I have been over the last fifteen years here.