evenstevens Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 riverside @ 45k/55k sq metre????have inspected a very nice one @4ok sq metre and when one has taken all into consideration,i.m.o it was over the odds,better deals are on offer,and there are stacks to purchased, off the plan ,new and old ,again I,m.o its a buyers market in c,mai if you do your homework and put in the hard yards In a building that contains 150 or so units, there's always going to be a range of pricing and exceptions to the average or norm. Five years ago it was possible to buy in Floral at 35k, that same unit today is 58k except you'll not find one for sale. The same was true of Rimping although historically the prices there were slightly lower, today they are very nearly the same price. Rimping on the other hand was historically inexpensive, five years ago they would sell for around 20k, I've recently seen one advertised at 50K! The fourth one that's worth mentioning is Galare Thong which, five years ago was the wild west of condo, it was a brave new frontier where only the very ambitious and hardy dared to venture, today it's pretty much a mainstream alternative and prices have risen hugely. So the price trend is undeniably upwards and supply in the more established buildings is becomming tighter, perhaps it's a buyers market in other places in CM but that's certainly not true in the CM condo. community that I know. The condo that went for 35k/sq m at Floral five years ago may well have been the one on the sixth floor that was stripped when the tenants moved out, then sold for that price. Back then I was unaware of any units going for less than 40k/ sq m, and I had the management there informing me of every 100 sq m unit that came up for sale. In the unit in question, built-in's were removed and the place looked terrible. Even after "renovation" it looked bad. Not much in it. I was aware of one 8 years ago that was available for 40k/ sq m. six years later the same unit came on the market again and reportedly sold for for 42 / sq m. I recall that the 100 sqm units all had about 4.2 million asking prices. It does seem that units for sale at Floral have always been in low supply and have sold quickly when they did come on the market. The unit at 35k was on 16, next to one that I already owned, a Japanese owner who needed to sell for health reasons. I went to buy it but sales management got greedy and interfered, no more details are appropriate here. Today, owners of A and C units above sixth floor are turning down offers of 55K, one Thai owner/company on 10 turned down 60k for a B & C unit, untouched since originally built, the offer was from me! So yes, it's a buyers market, not! EDIT: Just to add, I recently bought in Somerset, Taunton to be precise and the price per square meter was less than here! I would guess that the A.B.C. units are the end ones with better views etc etc????from my research they bring in 20 percent more then other units in any condo,is that correct????mny thks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 A (West) and A (East) units are the end ones, B & C are the middle ones. An AW unit faces Doi Suthep so yes there's a good view, AE units face East where the view is less good. But there are other trade offs that cause the rents to equalize hence the rental value is the same across all units, including B and C units, your homework is to find out what those trade offs are and to set them out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thighlander Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'll take a north view over a west view in Chiang Mai, in most cases. That afternoon sun makes the power meter run...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evenstevens Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 c/mai thanks for the heads up interesting stuff,greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 What a waste of effort and time! Byee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsephemera Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 thankyou for the responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 You can rent a nice condo in the sois behind Dome Residence/Nakornpong for 3k a month (yearly rental). It's quiet, has car/mc parking, and within easy walking distance of Maya/KSK/Santhitan. I really can't see the point in buying a condo in CM at the moment, the place is just waiting for a property crash. And before the buying is wasting money guys have a go, I did buy a house, I looked at condos but just not worthwhile. Rent Vs buy on a house is a totally different profit to loss calculation (but of course foreigners have little choice but condo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evenstevens Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I really can't see the point in buying a condo in CM at the moment, the place is just waiting for a property crash. a very good call,i feel there will be certainly be a correction in price,particular in older condos whether estabalished or not,they asking for a kings ransom,..the prices quoted on this thread I,M,O are way over the top,but there is vested interests involved,,,presently its a buyers market for a condo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolgeoff Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 condo,s are easy to buy ,but hard to sell.unless you keep for along time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I really can't see the point in buying a condo in CM at the moment, the place is just waiting for a property crash. a very good call,i feel there will be certainly be a correction in price,particular in older condos whether estabalished or not,they asking for a kings ransom,..the prices quoted on this thread I,M,O are way over the top,but there is vested interests involved,,,presently its a buyers market for a condo Just wondering if we all have the same definition of buyer's market in this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar2 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 i too, feel there is a property crash right around the corner. all the signs are there... reminds me of another mountain community real estate boom in the USA that ended up in disaster in 2007. actually, there was another crash even before that one but i can't recall what year - maybe the late 80's or early 90's. this was in the area around Denver, Colorado; Boulder, etc. i visited there both just before and just after the crash. what's happening here reminds me exactly of that. that same feeling... in the last 3 weeks they have been busy bulldozing all the beautiful vacant land along the road from where Meechok Plaza is to the Doi Saket Road on both sides. they are quickly building cheap, unattractive, poorly constructed shop-front houses and other commercial type buildings. but just around the corner in practically every direction are completed buildings that can't seem to attract a buyer. some of the asking prices are beyond absurd; 5.9 million Bath for a 3 story shop-front building 100 meters from Ruamchok Meechai intersection. some of these buildings have been completed 2 or more years ago and have 1 or 2 tenants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thighlander Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 condo,s are easy to buy ,but hard to sell.unless you keep for along time The last three I sold in the States, were all sold in less than two weeks. One of them I sold myself. I had always heard horror stories about getting stuck with a one bedroom condo....non-sense. It is hard to recoup if you pay too much; so the key is to get a good deal, good location...then you can afford to sell it at a price that is attractive to a buyer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 i too, feel there is a property crash right around the corner. all the signs are there... reminds me of another mountain community real estate boom in the USA that ended up in disaster in 2007. actually, there was another crash even before that one but i can't recall what year - maybe the late 80's or early 90's. this was in the area around Denver, Colorado; Boulder, etc. i visited there both just before and just after the crash. what's happening here reminds me exactly of that. that same feeling... in the last 3 weeks they have been busy bulldozing all the beautiful vacant land along the road from where Meechok Plaza is to the Doi Saket Road on both sides. they are quickly building cheap, unattractive, poorly constructed shop-front houses and other commercial type buildings. but just around the corner in practically every direction are completed buildings that can't seem to attract a buyer. some of the asking prices are beyond absurd; 5.9 million Bath for a 3 story shop-front building 100 meters from Ruamchok Meechai intersection. some of these buildings have been completed 2 or more years ago and have 1 or 2 tenants. I have also noticed the shop front effect. Been back in the USA for 6 months, returned to CM and found rows and rows of new shop fronts built all along the route to my house. Even along the Soi to my house, rows of them at 3M a go, no passing traffic, none sold and still building more. There is also a complex of about 100 between Meechok and MaeJo (same side as new Tesco), all but one unsold. This has to be money laundering money, can't see any other way it could work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thighlander Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 and about 1% of shop houses are condos...so that really doesn't effect the condo market. For there to be a big crash, like we had in the US....first you would need to have a lot of people being forced to sell....which we don't, or you need a big supply of bank REO, which there hasn't been in years. There are very few, where people owe more than they are worth, also, which is a pre-cursor to the banks taking them back, as eventually they stop paying. Otherwise, as long as they are worth more than owed....they can simply be sold to a private party. Very few folks have more than one mortgage in Thailand, and far fewer foreigners even have one mortgage. There has been talk of a looming property crash here for at least five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) and about 1% of shop houses are condos...so that really doesn't effect the condo market. For there to be a big crash, like we had in the US....first you would need to have a lot of people being forced to sell....which we don't, or you need a big supply of bank REO, which there hasn't been in years. There are very few, where people owe more than they are worth, also, which is a pre-cursor to the banks taking them back, as eventually they stop paying. Otherwise, as long as they are worth more than owed....they can simply be sold to a private party. Very few folks have more than one mortgage in Thailand, and far fewer foreigners even have one mortgage. There has been talk of a looming property crash here for at least five years. I am not thinking there will be vast repossessions of condos. More a glut of unsellable and abandoned condos, where nobody bothers to pay their fees, resulting in run down buildings. What if the new government makes it harder for foreigners to stay in Thailand? How much would a foreigner owned condo be worth with no foreigners in town? Edited April 23, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beau thai Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 condo,s are easy to buy ,but hard to sell.unless you keep for along time Dont understand how they can be easy to buy and hard to sell - surely every buyer involves a seller?? And if prices are rising how can they be said to be hard to sell. EG. Studios in Riverside that I looked at last year at 1.4m are now selling at 1.8m - not being offered at, but being sold at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beau thai Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 and about 1% of shop houses are condos...so that really doesn't effect the condo market. For there to be a big crash, like we had in the US....first you would need to have a lot of people being forced to sell....which we don't, or you need a big supply of bank REO, which there hasn't been in years. There are very few, where people owe more than they are worth, also, which is a pre-cursor to the banks taking them back, as eventually they stop paying. Otherwise, as long as they are worth more than owed....they can simply be sold to a private party. Very few folks have more than one mortgage in Thailand, and far fewer foreigners even have one mortgage. There has been talk of a looming property crash here for at least five years. I am not thinking there will be vast repossessions of condos. More a glut of unsellable and abandoned condos, where nobody bothers to pay their fees, resulting in run down buildings. What if the new government makes it harder for foreigners to stay in Thailand? How much would a foreigner owned condo be worth with no foreigners in town? Help me out here- why would a new government even consider making it harder for foreigners to stay??? All governments here involve commercial interests and many commercial interest involve foreigners. Why set the economy back by switching off investors from Japan/Korea/China/farangland? I dont get it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Help me out here- why would a new government even consider making it harder for foreigners to stay??? All governments here involve commercial interests and many commercial interest involve foreigners. Why set the economy back by switching off investors from Japan/Korea/China/farangland? I dont get it.... Very few Thai commercial interests value expats and long term foreign residents. Tourists are worthwhile to many countries buy they don't buy condos. Make retirement VISA/extensions harder and most of the foreign condo buyers will be gone in a flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 What a bunch of crap, there's no reason why any future governement would wish to make visa's harder to obtain, the trend is exactly the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar2 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 i too, feel there is a property crash right around the corner. all the signs are there... reminds me of another mountain community real estate boom in the USA that ended up in disaster in 2007. actually, there was another crash even before that one but i can't recall what year - maybe the late 80's or early 90's. this was in the area around Denver, Colorado; Boulder, etc. i visited there both just before and just after the crash. what's happening here reminds me exactly of that. that same feeling... in the last 3 weeks they have been busy bulldozing all the beautiful vacant land along the road from where Meechok Plaza is to the Doi Saket Road on both sides. they are quickly building cheap, unattractive, poorly constructed shop-front houses and other commercial type buildings. but just around the corner in practically every direction are completed buildings that can't seem to attract a buyer. some of the asking prices are beyond absurd; 5.9 million Bath for a 3 story shop-front building 100 meters from Ruamchok Meechai intersection. some of these buildings have been completed 2 or more years ago and have 1 or 2 tenants. I have also noticed the shop front effect. Been back in the USA for 6 months, returned to CM and found rows and rows of new shop fronts built all along the route to my house. Even along the Soi to my house, rows of them at 3M a go, no passing traffic, none sold and still building more. There is also a complex of about 100 between Meechok and MaeJo (same side as new Tesco), all but one unsold. This has to be money laundering money, can't see any other way it could work. i know the complex you mean. looked in there out of curiosity. 80 poorly constructed units complete for about 3 months now; only one rented/occupied. another 80 units more than 75% complete. why would anyone build another 80 until the first remaining 79 have been sold or rented. doesn't make any sense at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar2 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Help me out here- why would a new government even consider making it harder for foreigners to stay??? All governments here involve commercial interests and many commercial interest involve foreigners. Why set the economy back by switching off investors from Japan/Korea/China/farangland? I dont get it.... Very few Thai commercial interests value expats and long term foreign residents. Tourists are worthwhile to many countries buy they don't buy condos. Make retirement VISA/extensions harder and most of the foreign condo buyers will be gone in a flash. i would disagree with this as well. they don't want to scare away buyers, they want to attract them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Tommo, FiftyTwo, AnotherOneAmerican, same person, same recycled nonesesence from the same banned member, not without site approval I note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puwa Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Singapore is cooling down quickly. Although I've been told Singapore is a harbinger of regional trends, I can't say that I really understand how or why. http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2014/4/37633/62-drop-in-private-resale-home-sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thighlander Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 at 300,000 psm it has room to cool down, and some of the cooling may be government imposed. As far as visa crackdowns; they usually go after the backpacker bunch, who are misusing tourist visas. like the three strike rule at land borders. That had a near zero impact on the real estate market here. And they even relented on the 15 day rule. While they do like to shoot themselves in the feet; biting the hand that feeds them is a different matter. I could see them making us Americans prove our 65K pensions in the future, with more than a wink and a 1000 thb at the Consulate; but that will have little impact, also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow San Load Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) i too, feel there is a property crash right around the corner. all the signs are there... reminds me of another mountain community real estate boom in the USA that ended up in disaster in 2007. actually, there was another crash even before that one but i can't recall what year - maybe the late 80's or early 90's. this was in the area around Denver, Colorado; Boulder, etc. i visited there both just before and just after the crash. what's happening here reminds me exactly of that. that same feeling... in the last 3 weeks they have been busy bulldozing all the beautiful vacant land along the road from where Meechok Plaza is to the Doi Saket Road on both sides. they are quickly building cheap, unattractive, poorly constructed shop-front houses and other commercial type buildings. but just around the corner in practically every direction are completed buildings that can't seem to attract a buyer. some of the asking prices are beyond absurd; 5.9 million Bath for a 3 story shop-front building 100 meters from Ruamchok Meechai intersection. some of these buildings have been completed 2 or more years ago and have 1 or 2 tenants. I have also noticed the shop front effect. Been back in the USA for 6 months, returned to CM and found rows and rows of new shop fronts built all along the route to my house. Even along the Soi to my house, rows of them at 3M a go, no passing traffic, none sold and still building more. There is also a complex of about 100 between Meechok and MaeJo (same side as new Tesco), all but one unsold. This has to be money laundering money, can't see any other way it could work. so you are saying there is a plus big side the the vast dollars creamed from the drug trade and we are all benefiting from lower rents and condo prices? sorry, i being complicit in this rent paying crime, dont feel guilty enough to pay the land lord twice the rent as compensation and to short circuit the drug money. awe shucks. Edited April 23, 2014 by Cow San Load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolgeoff Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 in chiang mai towards jj market,turn left at the traffic lights.you see the merc dealer,turn right down the rd you see the white building left side 4 stories I think.that has being empty for nearly 5 years since it was build.no rental in the shops or condo,s above.to the owner it is a white elephant hoping someone will buy or rent. just like the old tiger bar next to tony,s big bikes.since ray left that building from the rent rises etc.it has remained empty and no buyers either.so maybe the property bubble is on a knifes edge now.be careful where you buy or do your homework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Ah, the joys of renting. Currently I like my rental on Nimmanhamin, but in a year or two, if some of the many condos under construction are finished and only fractionally filled, it could push the local overstressed infrastructure to collapse. As a renter all I'll have to do is relocate; Santitham, Chiang Rai, Cambodia, wherever looks good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thighlander Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Most are sold before they are built... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thighlander Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Very few brand new home buyers are able to see it completed before they sign the sales contract. Of course, they are allowed to do a "walk through" or inspection before they close, but they have signed the contract to buy months, if not years, before the final settlement. Look at the registered capital at the bottom of the page on the condo ads...often times wouldn't be enough to pay for the land. Developers leverage big time. A high school friend built a 14 house subdivision in Hua Hin (Kao Takiab) with 500,000 USD in capital. The land was 320,000. The project grossed about 3 million USD. Some call it working on a shoestring, but that's how it is done. THe big builders work the same way. Proceeds from the early sales are used to complete the project. And that does ad a risk to buying new. If values fall during construction, people will walk away from their deposits.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 As far as visa crackdowns; they usually go after the backpacker bunch, who are misusing tourist visas. Don't make me laugh, the biggest bunch of misusers are the "living hand to mouth" 50+ expats who can't keep 800k in the bank. They're the ones the land border visa run crackdowns are aimed at. Most backpackers have got daddy's credit card and more cash available than a sizeable chunk of the expat population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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