Buying (cheap) Condo in Chiang Mai

[angelsephemera]

I am looking into buying a cheap condo in CM (no more than 1 million) to renovate and live in. Though it will be an investment primarily it will be for meto live in - so location is not so important. I gather that cheap condos are generally to be found in East CM near the ring road. Are there any pitfalls I should know about, any recommendations for estate agents.

What do I need to know? Obviously I will need a good lawyer to finalise the deal, is there any way I could lose everything?

Thanks

[thrilled]

You might be dreaming when you say cheap.

[jobin]

Why don't you rent cheap? Seems more sensible esp since you seem concerned that you may 'lose it all'.

[angelsephemera]

OK let me rephrase: I want to buy a condo, I have found some reasonably priced condos. Are there any potential problems such as bank repossessions or Thai law?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

No.

Your main risk is the whole building going South. That could happen when everyone stops paying fees, then there is no money for basic maintenance, elevators, etc.

The one very close to the railway station seems okay-ish though. (Supanich Condo)

[Beng]

No.

Your main risk is the whole building going South. That could happen when everyone stops paying fees, then there is no money for basic maintenance, elevators, etc.

The one very close to the railway station seems okay-ish though. (Supanich Condo)

If someone stops paying fees, wouldn't the condo managment sue if a certai outstanding balance is reached ?

Resulting in eventually loosing the condo to pay off the debts ??

[ramrod711]

No.

Your main risk is the whole building going South. That could happen when everyone stops paying fees, then there is no money for basic maintenance, elevators, etc.

The one very close to the railway station seems okay-ish though. (Supanich Condo)

If someone stops paying fees, wouldn't the condo managment sue if a certai outstanding balance is reached ?

Resulting in eventually loosing the condo to pay off the debts ??

That is what is supposed to happen, but I know of several buildings where fees have not been paid for as long as 15 years by some people. When these people sell the fees are collected (supposedly). This practice isn't much help in cases where people from Bangkok bought condos 20 years ago, never use them, have no intention of selling them, refuse to pay and some even claim that they had an agreement with the builder that they never would have to pay. The first thing I would do is find out is if the Thai/foreigner ownership ratio is ok, the second would be to find out how much money the council has and how many people are up to date with fees.

[Mousehound]

Rent first!

[angelsephemera]

Thankyou for the information Ramrod/Winnie. I assume the fees are very little (for non luxury condos) and repossession is very rare.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Fees tend to depend on the size (number of square meters) but it can be around 500 Baht / month.

[angelsephemera]

hm.. more than I expected

[elektrified]

We looked at a dump of a condo just out of curiosity - (450K THB - but it needed about 350-400K worth of repairs/renovations from 20 years of leaks) a couple of months ago. We wouldn't let our dog stay there! Monthly fees were 550 THB. Actually it wasn't really a condo. It was a studio apartment - one room and a toilet, about 34 square meters. So if you want cheap, that is what you get.

[Metapod]

We looked at a dump of a condo just out of curiosity - (450K THB - but it needed about 350-400K worth of repairs/renovations from 20 years of leaks) a couple of months ago. We wouldn't let our dog stay there! Monthly fees were 550 THB. Actually it wasn't really a condo. It was a studio apartment - one room and a toilet, about 34 square meters. So if you want cheap, that is what you get.

monthly fees of 550 baht when you can prolly rent a room like that for 3k.

doesnt seem like a great investment to me.

better off renting

[NeverSure]

We looked at a dump of a condo just out of curiosity - (450K THB - but it needed about 350-400K worth of repairs/renovations from 20 years of leaks) a couple of months ago. We wouldn't let our dog stay there! Monthly fees were 550 THB. Actually it wasn't really a condo. It was a studio apartment - one room and a toilet, about 34 square meters. So if you want cheap, that is what you get.

monthly fees of 550 baht when you can prolly rent a room like that for 3k.

doesnt seem like a great investment to me.

better off renting

Yes, and if things go sideways, you can move. No worries about management or where dues are spent or who is paying dues or if repairs are being made... Just move.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think the only way a condo might make sense to buy is if it's in an area where you can genuinely expect the location to make it more desirable over time, so you make money on an increase in value. And that location will also be more easy to rent out, as people get the same sort of convenience they get staying at apartments like Veerachai Court, Life in Town or Smith Residence: they can walk to places.

However with your own unit you can make it look a lot nicer than those places above, so you could get a little more in rent.

When buying, the way it looks on the inside (nice or not) doesn't matter too much to me; because to make something 'okay-ish' look "really nice" takes the same money as making a complete dump look "really nice"; you're still replacing the floors, the ceiling, the bathroom, kitchenette, etc. So if you're doing all that anyway then it doesn't matter much if you start with your typical 1990's Thai condo interior, or with a pig sty. But the pig sty will be cheaper, so it's actually better when the room looks crap.

Edited April 20, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[angelsephemera]

You understand.

[Thighlander]

Some folks just aren't meant to be homeowners. Every real estate market has a rent, rent, rent chorus. Every location has some windows of time, when it is better to rent. However, in the long run; the renters get slaughtered. I've seen people take out 30 year mortgages at age 50, which really doesn't seem too great for retirement, but at least they have a fighting chance to pay it off. Crappy apartments can be cheap in some markets (like CNX), nice apartments are rarely cheap, and nice apartments in good locations are always costly. Rents are trending up. I priced the new Palm Spring Condos on Nimman yesterday....they start at 72000 psm. I think the wise people are buying shells in older. decent buildings and fixing them up. Soon there won't be any cheap ones left. It happened at Galae Thong, it happened at PP, it happened at Hillside 4, and now even places like Sritana, City View, C View, etc..

[true blue]

i bought a nice condo 8 years ago,in nice area nice building,it was fully refurbished, when exchange rates were good,and if i decided to sell now due to exchange rates i would have doubled my money.

[ARISTIDE]

cheap condo in CM (no more than 1 million) to renovate and live in.

The current price in CM is unrealistic so there are many think like you but the current price is way too high already even for the cheaper ones.

[angelsephemera]

From the information I have, it does seem like prices are inflated, and furthermore it seems like people are wise to renovating before they sell to bump up the price... so I don't expect a bargain, and frankly I am not expecting any real return as an investment, but I do think I can get something in the suburbs, which will hold it's value and give me living space and potential to improve.

[Oscar2]

or just wait for a market correction. the supply vs. demand is way off-kilter right now. just drive around Sansai and take a look. or drive around near Big C. there are buildings everywhere (condos and shop-front houses, etc.) that have been completed for months. some of them have 0-3 tenants. there are more security guards than tenants. looks to me like they can't make a sale because they are too over-priced. the few i have seen with "For Rent" signs that indicate have been sold, can't seem to attract a renter. no doubt since too high a price was paid, unrealistic expectations for the rents being asked are the factor. or in other cases the quality of the construction is so poor that potential customers pass. i took a quick glance at a condo near Big C. I won't mention the name other than it starts with "My". the building was only a few months old and already there were cracks forming in the (much too small) concrete pillars and the tiles had already fallen off the pool, cracks in the concrete deck, etc. imagine how it would look in 3 years! who would even consider investing in something like that?

[evenstevens]

its a buyers market from my enquirys and inspections over the last month or so, condos say in the 10 year and older bracket can be bought for up to 30.000 sq metre if we move into the newer ones approx. 50.000 sq metre and the brand new ones 60.000 plus is the call,naturally location plays a major role,in particular noise pollution,,that will dicatate the price,

[chiang mai]

its a buyers market from my enquirys and inspections over the last month or so, condos say in the 10 year and older bracket can be bought for up to 30.000 sq metre if we move into the newer ones approx. 50.000 sq metre and the brand new ones 60.000 plus is the call,naturally location plays a major role,in particular noise pollution,,that will dicatate the price,

Not quite correct, many of the older established condo buildings are now full and there are waiting lists, Rimping, Floral, Riverside are all twenty five years plus old and are in the 45k/55k per sq metre range.

[evenstevens]

its a buyers market from my enquirys and inspections over the last month or so, condos say in the 10 year and older bracket can be bought for up to 30.000 sq metre if we move into the newer ones approx. 50.000 sq metre and the brand new ones 60.000 plus is the call,naturally location plays a major role,in particular noise pollution,,that will dicatate the price,

Not quite correct, many of the older established condo buildings are now full and there are waiting lists, Rimping, Floral, Riverside are all twenty five years plus old and are in the 45k/55k per sq metre range.

riverside @ 45k/55k sq metre????have inspected a very nice one @4ok sq metre and when one has taken all into consideration,i.m.o it was over the odds,better deals are on offer,and there are stacks to purchased, off the plan ,new and old ,again I,m.o its a buyers market in c,mai if you do your homework and put in the hard yards

[chiang mai]

its a buyers market from my enquirys and inspections over the last month or so, condos say in the 10 year and older bracket can be bought for up to 30.000 sq metre if we move into the newer ones approx. 50.000 sq metre and the brand new ones 60.000 plus is the call,naturally location plays a major role,in particular noise pollution,,that will dicatate the price,

Not quite correct, many of the older established condo buildings are now full and there are waiting lists, Rimping, Floral, Riverside are all twenty five years plus old and are in the 45k/55k per sq metre range.

riverside @ 45k/55k sq metre????have inspected a very nice one @4ok sq metre and when one has taken all into consideration,i.m.o it was over the odds,better deals are on offer,and there are stacks to purchased, off the plan ,new and old ,again I,m.o its a buyers market in c,mai if you do your homework and put in the hard yards

In a building that contains 150 or so units, there's always going to be a range of pricing and exceptions to the average or norm. Five years ago it was possible to buy in Floral at 35k, that same unit today is 58k except you'll not find one for sale. The same was true of Rimping although historically the prices there were slightly lower, today they are very nearly the same price. Rimping on the other hand was historically inexpensive, five years ago they would sell for around 20k, I've recently seen one advertised at 50K! The fourth one that's worth mentioning is Galare Thong which, five years ago was the wild west of condo, it was a brave new frontier where only the very ambitious and hardy dared to venture, today it's pretty much a mainstream alternative and prices have risen hugely.

So the price trend is undeniably upwards and supply in the more established buildings is becomming tighter, perhaps it's a buyers market in other places in CM but that's certainly not true in the CM condo. community that I know.

[evenstevens]

perhaps it's a buyers market in other places in CM

certainly correct with the above,have a nice day

[mesquite]

its a buyers market from my enquirys and inspections over the last month or so, condos say in the 10 year and older bracket can be bought for up to 30.000 sq metre if we move into the newer ones approx. 50.000 sq metre and the brand new ones 60.000 plus is the call,naturally location plays a major role,in particular noise pollution,,that will dicatate the price,

Not quite correct, many of the older established condo buildings are now full and there are waiting lists, Rimping, Floral, Riverside are all twenty five years plus old and are in the 45k/55k per sq metre range.

riverside @ 45k/55k sq metre????have inspected a very nice one @4ok sq metre and when one has taken all into consideration,i.m.o it was over the odds,better deals are on offer,and there are stacks to purchased, off the plan ,new and old ,again I,m.o its a buyers market in c,mai if you do your homework and put in the hard yards

In a building that contains 150 or so units, there's always going to be a range of pricing and exceptions to the average or norm. Five years ago it was possible to buy in Floral at 35k, that same unit today is 58k except you'll not find one for sale. The same was true of Rimping although historically the prices there were slightly lower, today they are very nearly the same price. Rimping on the other hand was historically inexpensive, five years ago they would sell for around 20k, I've recently seen one advertised at 50K! The fourth one that's worth mentioning is Galare Thong which, five years ago was the wild west of condo, it was a brave new frontier where only the very ambitious and hardy dared to venture, today it's pretty much a mainstream alternative and prices have risen hugely.

So the price trend is undeniably upwards and supply in the more established buildings is becomming tighter, perhaps it's a buyers market in other places in CM but that's certainly not true in the CM condo. community that I know.

The condo that went for 35k/sq m at Floral five years ago may well have been the one on the sixth floor that was stripped when the tenants moved out, then sold for that price. Back then I was unaware of any units going for less than 40k/ sq m, and I had the management there informing me of every 100 sq m unit that came up for sale. In the unit in question, built-in's were removed and the place looked terrible. Even after "renovation" it looked bad. Not much in it.

I was aware of one 8 years ago that was available for 40k/ sq m. six years later the same unit came on the market again and reportedly sold for for 42 / sq m. I recall that the 100 sqm units all had about 4.2 million asking prices.

It does seem that units for sale at Floral have always been in low supply and have sold quickly when they did come on the market.

[chiang mai]

riverside @ 45k/55k sq metre????have inspected a very nice one @4ok sq metre and when one has taken all into consideration,i.m.o it was over the odds,better deals are on offer,and there are stacks to purchased, off the plan ,new and old ,again I,m.o its a buyers market in c,mai if you do your homework and put in the hard yards

In a building that contains 150 or so units, there's always going to be a range of pricing and exceptions to the average or norm. Five years ago it was possible to buy in Floral at 35k, that same unit today is 58k except you'll not find one for sale. The same was true of Rimping although historically the prices there were slightly lower, today they are very nearly the same price. Rimping on the other hand was historically inexpensive, five years ago they would sell for around 20k, I've recently seen one advertised at 50K! The fourth one that's worth mentioning is Galare Thong which, five years ago was the wild west of condo, it was a brave new frontier where only the very ambitious and hardy dared to venture, today it's pretty much a mainstream alternative and prices have risen hugely.

So the price trend is undeniably upwards and supply in the more established buildings is becomming tighter, perhaps it's a buyers market in other places in CM but that's certainly not true in the CM condo. community that I know.

The condo that went for 35k/sq m at Floral five years ago may well have been the one on the sixth floor that was stripped when the tenants moved out, then sold for that price. Back then I was unaware of any units going for less than 40k/ sq m, and I had the management there informing me of every 100 sq m unit that came up for sale. In the unit in question, built-in's were removed and the place looked terrible. Even after "renovation" it looked bad. Not much in it.

I was aware of one 8 years ago that was available for 40k/ sq m. six years later the same unit came on the market again and reportedly sold for for 42 / sq m. I recall that the 100 sqm units all had about 4.2 million asking prices.

It does seem that units for sale at Floral have always been in low supply and have sold quickly when they did come on the market.

The unit at 35k was on 16, next to one that I already owned, a Japanese owner who needed to sell for health reasons. I went to buy it but sales management got greedy and interfered, no more details are appropriate here. Today, owners of A and C units above sixth floor are turning down offers of 55K, one Thai owner/company on 10 turned down 60k for a B & C unit, untouched since originally built, the offer was from me! So yes, it's a buyers market, not!

EDIT: Just to add, I recently bought in Somerset, Taunton to be precise and the price per square meter was less than here!

Edited April 21, 2014 by chiang mai

[mesquite]

riverside @ 45k/55k sq metre????have inspected a very nice one @4ok sq metre and when one has taken all into consideration,i.m.o it was over the odds,better deals are on offer,and there are stacks to purchased, off the plan ,new and old ,again I,m.o its a buyers market in c,mai if you do your homework and put in the hard yards

In a building that contains 150 or so units, there's always going to be a range of pricing and exceptions to the average or norm. Five years ago it was possible to buy in Floral at 35k, that same unit today is 58k except you'll not find one for sale. The same was true of Rimping although historically the prices there were slightly lower, today they are very nearly the same price. Rimping on the other hand was historically inexpensive, five years ago they would sell for around 20k, I've recently seen one advertised at 50K! The fourth one that's worth mentioning is Galare Thong which, five years ago was the wild west of condo, it was a brave new frontier where only the very ambitious and hardy dared to venture, today it's pretty much a mainstream alternative and prices have risen hugely.

So the price trend is undeniably upwards and supply in the more established buildings is becomming tighter, perhaps it's a buyers market in other places in CM but that's certainly not true in the CM condo. community that I know.

The condo that went for 35k/sq m at Floral five years ago may well have been the one on the sixth floor that was stripped when the tenants moved out, then sold for that price. Back then I was unaware of any units going for less than 40k/ sq m, and I had the management there informing me of every 100 sq m unit that came up for sale. In the unit in question, built-in's were removed and the place looked terrible. Even after "renovation" it looked bad. Not much in it.

I was aware of one 8 years ago that was available for 40k/ sq m. six years later the same unit came on the market again and reportedly sold for for 42 / sq m. I recall that the 100 sqm units all had about 4.2 million asking prices.

It does seem that units for sale at Floral have always been in low supply and have sold quickly when they did come on the market.

The unit at 35k was on 16, next to one that I already owned, a Japanese owner who needed to sell for health reasons. I went to buy it but sales management got greedy and interfered, no more details are appropriate here. Today, owners of A and C units above sixth floor are turning down offers of 55K, one Thai owner/company on 10 turned down 60k for a B & C unit, untouched since originally built, the offer was from me! So yes, it's a buyers market, not!

EDIT: Just to add, I recently bought in Somerset, Taunton to be precise and the price per square meter was less than here!

Interesting. I haven't been there for months. With those prices it sounds like they must have repaired the wind damage in the lobby. Or at least convinced buyers they are seriously working to finish repairs.

[chiang mai]

Nope and possibly!