Australian white Chardonnay wine in fact Vietnamese pineapple alcohol

[oldsailor35]

Unbelieveable.... but I suppose if you stick to the saying about if something seems to good to be true. Ive seen wines and spirits up in Mae Sai that appear too cheap (Myanmar side and in the crazy maze of a market). I once bought and tried a bottle of Bundaberg Rum from one of those places.... and I`ll never repeat that mistake. A headache from hell not just a hangover.

As many have stated, the duty free shop directly opposite Myanmar immigration seems to be the only place that has legit grog/booze/alcohol. Very good selection of Aussie and Kiwi wine there albeit a tad expensive but you do get what you pay for.

Anybody that drinks the coarse fire water known as Bundaberg Rum, deserves to get a head ache.

[oldsailor35]

Having just returned from Australia and sampling some excellent wines at half the price we pay here (because of import tax) I was loathe to try some.

According to the so called free trade agreement between thailand and australia the tax is supposed to be minimal.eg 5 percent

Well its about time the Australian Trade Commission looked into this as Aussie wine is far too expensive here and there are many very good but cheap wines available in oz.

[kovaltech]

OP,

If the ingredients are clearly indicated on the label, then its not to call a scam...

If the wine - brand-name does not have a trade mark or any brand protection...

Rule of thumb: if its cheap, mostly the content is cheap to

CE is China Export, remember ?

[The Deerhunter]

Does anyone know at what point during the growing period these "chemicals" are sprayed?

It would appear to me that if they are sprayed as seedlings then the chemical becomes infused into the plant.....therefore no amount of washing or bicarb sterilisation will make any difference.

But isn't it exactly the same in the west? But there its given a fancy name GMO crops, genetically modified by chemicals probably.

Actually, that would be the best way to use pesticides. In the system called Integrated Pest Management pesticides are only used early on so that by the time the plant is ready to be harvested, the chemicals are out of the plant's system.

Yes. Correct and there is also the "with-holding period" i.e, must not be sprayed less than xx days before harvesting. That is why my Thai famliy only buy organic veges but I think they are optimists. If you can spray the hell out of it and get a higher price by calling it "organic", then I 'll bet more than a few do just that. Who is to catch them out. Are the supermarkets testing the stuff they buy as organuic for pesticides. I bet NOT!!!! (Hope I'm wrong. I have to eat it too.)

[WinnieTheKhwai]

According to THIS it is made with (real) grapes - nothing to do pineapples !

Do you actually believe THIS is the same wine the OP is talking about? How could you possible know?

Because he included a picture in the original post.

[GrantSmith]

WTK,

Unfortunately, the OP believe it as much as he may, didn't incldue the Jump Yards label in the OP or subsequent posts. He included Bellville, which unless is slapped on the back of the bottle (which would open a huge can of worms in itself) is not the same juice.

Same-same but different comes to mind, but for arguments sake, not the same

[GrantSmith]

Well its about time the Australian Trade Commission looked into this as Aussie wine is far too expensive here and there are many very good but cheap wines available in oz.

Taxes and tariffs are also same-same but different.

To be honest, I can't see Austrade getting involved in this as they've done what they needed to do - get the import tariff on Australian wine to zero (albeit by 2015, which is pretty good considering)

Excise taxes are in country - what's spiking the market - taxes and no FTA that I know of is excluded from this tax. The locals pay it too.

Aussie wine is the least taxed imported wine in the market (currently).

The Australian Government need to be opening up the domestic market back home to make export worth the effort, there's a lot more to it then simply cheap booze available at your local Woolworths or Coles (and that's a joke in and of itself, if you understand the market back in Australia) as there's plenty of extra costs involved getting it from the cellar door to the supermarker shelf.

But it's far too easy to increase taxes on alcohol and tobacco (to a lesser extent) given the perception that it's responsible for all the antisocial behaviour. Tax increases on alcohol and other legal drugs are the whipping boys for failed subsidy schemes and are "taken for the team" because the public's perception is that alcohol and tobacco are bad.

[quidnunc]

Does anyone know at what point during the growing period these "chemicals" are sprayed?

It would appear to me that if they are sprayed as seedlings then the chemical becomes infused into the plant.....therefore no amount of washing or bicarb sterilisation will make any difference.

But isn't it exactly the same in the west? But there its given a fancy name GMO crops, genetically modified by chemicals probably.

Actually, that would be the best way to use pesticides. In the system called Integrated Pest Management pesticides are only used early on so that by the time the plant is ready to be harvested, the chemicals are out of the plant's system.

Could i add something about Integrated Pest Management. It is a approach to pest management that will reduce the amount of chemical used and therefore cost and it will maximise the effectiveness. Usually this done by studying and knowing the life-cycle of the pest so in some cases it may be spraying the pest at pupal stage (when it is in the cocoon) for example. Timing is all important .It also will "integrate" cultural practices like using and timing irrigation correctly, using " organic" methods of insect control like using traps , using biological control and so all approaches to insect control is intensively managed .

It is not easy to do all these thing, not easy like pouring a blob of chemical in a back pack but it does work and it reduces dependence on chemical ( which the big boys don't like) , it reduces the cost in the production of food, the food is healthier and often will look more presentable and is much better for the consumer and the environment.

I'm sure you're right about Integrated Pest Management xen, & I'm equally sure that if it involves any "studying" to get it right, that it won't be used here in Thailand

Typical reflexive Thai bashing. In fact, the Royal Project does a lot of IPM.

[inthepink]

The back label that was posted (for Belville?) says in fairly large Thai letters, "Fruit alcohol that is made from grapes and passion fruit", so I don't see how that particular wine can be considered a scam or 'sneaky'.

[xylophone]

It seems as if we are jumping around all over the place here, so to try and bring a little order to the thread, this is how I see it: –

The first poster mentioned that they thought that the "Jump Yards" wine was made from/included pineapple alcohol and posted a picture of the actual wine bottles.

Unfortunately the second post they made was the back label of a bottle of "Belleville", which purported to be an Australian wine.

Then WinnieTheKhwai mentioned Mont Clare and how it contained Roselle/krajeab juice, which was a surprise.

Now it has been established that in fact Mont Clair does contain Roselle/krajeab juice, however it is written in such small print that it is almost impossible to detect, and it is only in Thai.

I'm not sure about the other wines, although the poster above seems to think that the "Belleville" bottle also contains information in Thai regarding added fruit.

So the "Jump Yards" is still an unknown unless anyone can come up with definitive proof.

A few posters have said that it cannot be a scam if it is printed on the label, however I cannot agree with that, bearing in mind that the front label is all in English and with large text promoting the actual grape varieties, and only at the back on an area about half the size of a postage stamp, in Mont Clair's case,is Roselle juice mentioned.

It seems to me that these wines are obviously aimed at the English speaking folk, hence the reason for the mention of grapes, the nose and aromas and origins etc, all areas which are familiar to us. However to then sneakily put on the back label in another language that the wine contains fruit juice/alcohol is obviously an attempt to deceive and would not be allowed in other countries, as I already mentioned.

How much better if they had been upfront with, let's say Mont Clair, and said something along the lines of this about the wine, in English: – "We source quality Shiraz and Cabernet Sauvignon grapes from the sun soaked vineyards of South Africa, then carefully blend them, along with a little locally grown Roselle juice (or fruit) to add acidity, colour and balance, to round off what we consider to be a perfect every day wine". I'm sure you get my drift.

Then, IMO, you would know exactly what you are drinking, which has been my point all the way along. I do not like being misled by deliberate mislabelling of a product, which is what this is.

[GrantSmith]

The back label that was posted (for Belville?) says in fairly large Thai letters, "Fruit alcohol that is made from grapes and passion fruit", so I don't see how that particular wine can be considered a scam or 'sneaky'.

Yes, in Thai, but does it say it in English, anywhere on the label that it contains passionfruit?

As xylophone mentioned, this is the sticking point.

[Straight8]

these scam along with extremely inflated prices.. moments like these i'm glad I'm not a wine drinker.

[inthepink]

@ GrantSmith

It's being sold in Thailand. I don't think there'd be a furore if a bottle of Spanish wine that contained passion fruit and was being sold in the UK had that fact clearly stated on the back label in English but not in Spanish.

And to be fair, it does say Fruit Wine, in nice big letters, in English. I have never come across that on a bottle of wine that was made exclusively from grapes, have you?

Edited April 29, 2014 by inthepink

[GrantSmith]

It's being sold in Thailand. I don't think there'd be a furore if a bottle of Spanish wine that contained passion fruit and was being sold in the UK had that fact clearly stated on the back label in English but not in Spanish.

And the majority of the label is in English, not Thai. Along with the marketing of this "fruit wine" as "wine", it's the part about fruit being added (which isn't in the English explanation) that exception is being taken.

Regarding your Spanish wine scenario: No, it wouldn't cause a furore in the UK because the label is printed in English. If it were a Spanish wine and had the label in Spanish and not English, one would expect the consumer would take it to task.

[kovaltech]

The back label that was posted (for Belville?) says in fairly large Thai letters, "Fruit alcohol that is made from grapes and passion fruit", so I don't see how that particular wine can be considered a scam or 'sneaky'.

Yes, in Thai, but does it say it in English, anywhere on the label that it contains passionfruit?

As xylophone mentioned, this is the sticking point.

The bottle is sold in Thailand ?

Did it follow the Thai rules ?

Did you buy the bottle in Thailand and drink it in Thailand... ?

Do not feel scammed...

At least they are honest and put it on the etiquette....

I live in France near by the vineyards in Bordeaux...

What you think they put in the wine and on the etiquettes ?

I also buy my cheese in europe; define cheese and look what they put on your pizza...

[inthepink]

The wine originates from Australia, of course the majority of the label is in English.

Re. my Spanish example, some of the label would be in Spanish if it were not made purely for export. Change the example to French if you like, then we can assume that most of the label would be in French. My point is, it is exported to Thailand, where the official language is Thai, not English. Why are they obliged to translate everything?

Re. marketing it as wine, that's what it is.

[GrantSmith]

The bottle is sold in Thailand ?

Did it follow the Thai rules ?

Did you buy the bottle in Thailand and drink it in Thailand... ?

Do not feel scammed...

At least they are honest and put it on the etiquette....

I live in France near by the vineyards in Bordeaux...

What you think they put in the wine and on the etiquettes ?

I also buy my cheese in europe; define cheese and look what they put on your pizza...

It's not honest at all. Despite it probably being perfectly legal to do what they're doing, ulitmately it tarnishes the reputation of wineries from countries such as Australia (in the case of Jump Yards), South Africa (in the case of Mont Clair) and France (in the case of Belleville) that these fruit wines are being marketed as being wine (as in - by definition - made from 100% grape).

These imitation wines instill a price sensitivity into the consumer who's already wary about the price of wine here given the high tax on wine here in Thailand.

I don't have an issue with them being produced, there's clearly a market for it, BUT, market it for what it is!

[GrantSmith]

The wine originates from Australia, of course the majority of the label is in English.

Re. my Spanish example, some of the label would be in Spanish if it were not made purely for export. Change the example to French if you like, then we can assume that most of the label would be in French. My point is, it is exported to Thailand, where the official language is Thai, not English. Why are they obliged to translate everything?

Re. marketing it as wine, that's what it is.

Sorry inthepink the wine does not originate from Australia, it's manufactured here in Thailand.

Your label example is still missing the point...

As for marketing it as wine; no it is not wine, it is fruit wine. Wine can only be called wine if it is made from 100% grape content. Anything else is to be called whatever else it is made with and wine can be tapped onto the end e.g Fruit Wine

[inthepink]

The wine originates from Australia, of course the majority of the label is in English.

Re. my Spanish example, some of the label would be in Spanish if it were not made purely for export. Change the example to French if you like, then we can assume that most of the label would be in French. My point is, it is exported to Thailand, where the official language is Thai, not English. Why are they obliged to translate everything?

Re. marketing it as wine, that's what it is.

Sorry inthepink the wine does not originate from Australia, it's manufactured here in Thailand.

Your label example is still missing the point...

As for marketing it as wine; no it is not wine, it is fruit wine. Wine can only be called wine if it is made from 100% grape content. Anything else is to be called whatever else it is made with and wine can be tapped onto the end e.g Fruit Wine

I'm not missing the point and wine does not have to be made from 100% grapes. Where have you read that?

i think the point you are missing is what country we are living in - it's not an English speaking one.

Edited April 29, 2014 by inthepink

[GrantSmith]

I'm not missing the point and wine does not have to be made from 100% grapes. Where have you read that?

i think the point you are missing is what country we are living in - it's not an English speaking one.

Seriously? Wine does not have to be made from 100% grapes to be called wine? If that's the case, what is the need for these "Fruit Wines" to be called as such? Because it sounds cool?

Article 1 (G) of the "Agreement on Requirements for Wine Labelling" by the World Wine Trade Group states:

“Wine” is a beverage produced by the complete or partial alcoholic fermentation exclusively of fresh grapes, grape must, or products derived from fresh grapes in accordance with oenological practices that are authorised for use under the regulatory mechanisms of the exporting Party and accepted by the importing Party, and

containing not less than 7% and not more than 24% alcohol by volume;"

[inthepink]

I'm not missing the point and wine does not have to be made from 100% grapes. Where have you read that?

i think the point you are missing is what country we are living in - it's not an English speaking one.

Seriously? Wine does not have to be made from 100% grapes to be called wine? If that's the case, what is the need for these "Fruit Wines" to be called as such? Because it sounds cool?

Article 1 (G) of the "Agreement on Requirements for Wine Labelling" by the World Wine Trade Group states:

“Wine” is a beverage produced by the complete or partial alcoholic fermentation exclusively of fresh grapes, grape must, or products derived from fresh grapes in accordance with oenological practices that are authorised for use under the regulatory mechanisms of the exporting Party and accepted by the importing Party, and

containing not less than 7% and not more than 24% alcohol by volume;"

OK fair enough, I'll concede that point (although the OED does say that the word wine can be used in a wider sense to apply to fermented beverages made from other fruits. And I could ask why a trade organisation that has only been around for about 15 years to the best of my knowledge, should be accepted as the leading authority on English language usage, so there's no need for the sarcastic smiley). ...but the wine trade agrees on that definition so we'll go with that. Which leaves us with the fact that it is clearly labelled as a fruit wine - that's acceptable to the World Wine Trade Group no?

And I still disagree with your complaint about the language used on the label - I don't believe that Thai producers / manufacturers / retailers are obliged to list ingredients in English.

Edited April 29, 2014 by inthepink

[inthepink]

Actually sorry, but I'm going to retract my agreement on the term wine being used only for 100% grape products.

This is the information that I found on-line about the WWTG, who you seem to be placing so much store in. (Using phrases like oenological practices in Article 1 (G) of a document might make it all sound official but they have no authority on this matter)

"The World Wine Trade Group is an informal group of industry representatives from Argentina, Canada, Chile, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Mexico and South Africa." (i.e. New World wine countries)

Edited April 29, 2014 by inthepink

[GrantSmith]

If you'd be so kind as to answer the question, if wine - by your definition - does not need to be 100% grape product, why is it then referred to as Fruit Wine?

And the point you're not getting is Fruit Wine should not be marketed as Wine.

[thaigolfer]

85% of you is missing the point.

It is been informed, promoted and sold as wine, but it isn't.

It is been informed, promoted and sold as coming from Australia, South Africa, but it isn't.

It is been informed, promoted and sold as made exclusively from Chardonnay, Shiraz grapes only but it isn't.

It is been.................

"Fruit wine" is NOT "wine". Make it clear in the advertisement, on the bottle and through the people promoting it and most of us will be happy.

That is the point........ I guess....... hmhm......

I will drink a real wine today at W&D and don't let they come to me this evening promoting those "fruit wines" as "wine" or I'm out..

[inthepink]

If you'd be so kind as to answer the question, if wine - by your definition - does not need to be 100% grape product, why is it then referred to as Fruit Wine?

And the point you're not getting is Fruit Wine should not be marketed as Wine.

That particular product is referred to as fruit wine because it originates from Australia, which is a member of the all knowing WWTG. The term wine has been commonly used in the UK for alcoholic beverages made from elderberry, damson and other fruits for many years. I have no knowledge of its use in other countries but I feel no need to change my understanding of the terminology simply because an informal group of johnny-come-lately's to the wine industry decided to adopt certain labelling standards a few years ago.

I am getting the point, I'm just disputing the fact that wine has to be made from grapes. Unless you can find a better authority than the WWTG, I see no need to change my opinion on the matter.

[GrantSmith]

inthepink; have you actually ever seen the back of the label or have you seen the colour of the excise stamp on the bottle? If you have, you would know that these particular wines are not originating from Australia.

Blue/Green = Import

Red/Orange = Local

Wine made from elderberry's is known as elderberry wine, why is this? Because it's made with elderberries. The same applies to any fruit used, it's name is first, followed by wine... i.e elderberry wine

It's clear you don't understand the difference between fruit wine and wine, so we'll have to agree to disagree but I'll leave you with this website to ponder over...

http://www.oiv.int/oiv/info/endefinitionproduit#wines

[inthepink]

I do agree that wine is traditionally made from grapes, as they are the most suitable fruit for the purpose and were cultivated for that reason throughout history. I just don't see this as some kind of scam. Possibly a little misleading if you object to the presence of passion fruit in your wine.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't understand why it matters. The wine taste like it tastes and the effects of alcohol are the same whether using grapes or mixing it with other fruit. If one likes it, "What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?"

[inthepink]

Wine snobs may object but at that price I wouldn't have thought they'd be interested in any case. It's clearly at the lower end of the market so if it's drinkable I don't see what's wrong with it. Misleading marketing campaigns are hardly unusual, in any country. As it clearly states on the label that it is a fruit wine (in English) and mentions the fact that passion fruit is one of the ingredients (in Thai), I don't see a problem either.

Edited April 30, 2014 by inthepink

[inthepink]

inthepink; have you actually ever seen the back of the label or have you seen the colour of the excise stamp on the bottle? If you have, you would know that these particular wines are not originating from Australia.

Blue/Green = Import

Red/Orange = Local

Wine made from elderberry's is known as elderberry wine, why is this? Because it's made with elderberries. The same applies to any fruit used, it's name is first, followed by wine... i.e elderberry wine

It's clear you don't understand the difference between fruit wine and wine, so we'll have to agree to disagree but I'll leave you with this website to ponder over...

http://www.oiv.int/oiv/info/endefinitionproduit#wines

You didn't say alcoholic drink made from elderberries, you said, "Wine made from" elderberries, so I think you've already proved that it is common to refer to such products as wine, even if you didn't mean to.

Edited April 30, 2014 by inthepink