What percentage of the population are considered as Gay ?

[onthemoon]

I'm not sure it is well documented that men's sexual preferences are set at a very young age, I can only say that anecdotally, I believe it. However, I have never heard that it is less so for women. This difference doesn't sound logical to me.

I see.

There is scads of literature on this, but I doubt this detour is really on topic though, is it?

Anyway, here's a taste. Perhaps if people are very interested, a new thread would be in order.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/understanding-females-sexual-fluidity/

It’s a phenomenon that Lisa Diamond, a University of Utah psychology professor, has studied extensively. In her 2008 book, “Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Women’s Love and Desire,” she writes that women’s sexuality appears to be much more fluid than men’s, and that this fluidity tends to involve three main characteristics:

– Non-exclusivity in attractions: can find either gender sexually attractive

– Changes in attractions: can suddenly find a man or woman sexually attractive after having been in a long-term relationship with the other

– Attraction to the person, not the gender

...

Plus, Nagoski adds, “Women’s experience of sexual orientation is more discontinuous and variable than men’s, which more typically emerges early and stays the same over different situations.” So, while most men tend to identify themselves as straight, gay, or bisexual relatively early in life, many women may have relationships with both men and women without choosing a specific sexual orientation.

Well, thanks for this one study. Interesting.

I never understood women, and now I know I never will.

[David48]

I'm not sure it is well documented that men's sexual preferences are set at a very young age, I can only say that anecdotally, I believe it. However, I have never heard that it is less so for women. This difference doesn't sound logical to me.

I see.

There is scads of literature on this, but I doubt this detour is really on topic though, is it?

JT .. as long as there is no political posturing, I'm very happy to have a wander round a few issues.

I'm learning with every post ...

[David48]

Has anyone ever looked into how tolerant a Society is and how higher are the number of people who are (or identify themselves as) Gay?

Just thinking that, a place like Thailand, with it's more liberal asocial/sexual attitude (don't know if that's the correct term) would have a higher percentage of acknowledged Gays then say the UK or the USA etc.

In essence, comparing the Thai Gay population to say the World average ... if there is such a thing.

[David48]

I used to work in the Economic Development section of the Government, we were charged with diversifying the Economic base of the City as it relied to much on Tourism, Retail and Construction. Accordingly, we looked at and benched marked factors which effect a City and it's growth prospects.

We did note, that the centers with a higher Gay population did have a (slightly) higher GDP then the Nations average. It was, but one of many indicators we analysied. Statistically, I don't remember the sample size or the acceptable statistical error deviation ... interesting notion though.

Not really related to the OP ... just a thought that popped into my head while I was struggling with the amount of White Vinegar my gf put in the Pork Noodles ...

I might go see what else is in the fridge ...

[sustento]

How about guys who identified as straight and had families but found out they were gay when they were in their 40s or 50s? I know some of those too.

Another interesting point (as I have no idea) ... I sort of thought that Gays knew early where attraction lies.

That said, my mind is open and happy to receive the comments as such.

Some know early on, others don't. I believe it has to do with the place and the way you were brought up. If you grow up in a world in which homosexuality does not exist and you don't see it anywhere, you wouldn't likely admit it to yourself. If you see and hear of other gay people, it is more likely that you join them and develop a self-confidence about it.

Keep in mind that anybody who finds out in his sixties (ten years ago) that he is gay, grew up in a totally different time from us.

I'm about the same age as Peaceblondie and I realised I was 'different' when I was about 9 but didn't figure out why until I was about 12 rather than as a 60 year old. I think the general disapproval of gays was pretty much the same in the US (where PB comes from) and the UK (where I come from). I think that different people have different experiences and it's difficult to be too specific.

The two main different types of gay folks that I've met over the years have been those like me who realise early on and accept themselves internally for what they are and the group that realise (or more likely finally admit it to themselves) in their twenties or later and have a big struggle accepting themselves at all. How both groups react to their external environment obviously differs with the situation that they find themselves in.

I used to go out with a guy who was working up the courage to tell his folks he was gay. I used to visit his folk's house as a friend of his rather than as his bf. It was overwhelmingly obvious to me that his 40-ish year old father was gay but no-one else seemed to realise it.

We finally told his parents that he was gay and they were pretty much OK with it and us. Within the month his father was going to the local gay club with us - dragging the wife along too. The marriage fell apart after a year or two as his father made up for lost time and shagged anything male with a pulse. Gay men getting married (to women) can be a recipe for disaster which affects whole families.

[taiwanatoa]

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but I think my question is relevant to some of the info given above (and no doubt it's been discussed elsewhere - it's just that I have not seen it). Many people use the all-inclusive words "gay" and "straight". Often in a pejorative sense. It's convenient for them. But there are many shades of grey. It was once suggested to me that the expression "non-straight" was appropriate, but I still can't get into that kind of thinking. As I said, too many shades of grey. So, do the posters here feel it is acceptable?

So, David, 10%. That would mean three of the players on the field are gay. They'd be tough lads, then. Just like Ian Roberts and Gareth Thomas.

"Many people use the all-inclusive words "gay" and "straight", "non-straight"

I I get so tired of hearing this stupid usage of the word "straight". I have never used it. I just say"hetero". After all,what is the antonym of the word "straight" anyway? : crooked, bent ,twisted, warped etc.

Also; I wonder why anyone would want to refer to himself as "queer". If you do,that's your own self-identification. Don't include me.

[taiwanatoa]

How about guys who identified as straight and had families but found out they were gay when they were in their 40s or 50s? I know some of those too.

Another interesting point (as I have no idea) ... I sort of thought that Gays knew early where attraction lies.

That said, my mind is open and happy to receive the comments as such.

Some know early on, others don't. I believe it has to do with the place and the way you were brought up. If you grow up in a world in which homosexuality does not exist and you don't see it anywhere, you wouldn't likely admit it to yourself. If you see and hear of other gay people, it is more likely that you join them and develop a self-confidence about it.

Keep in mind that anybody who finds out in his sixties (ten years ago) that he is gay, grew up in a totally different time from us. Not only was it normal even in the west to have discriminating laws, there was also a lot less of TV and certainly no internet when these people grew up.

Gee, I know I first thought that I was the only gay in the world when I noticed that I was different, but at least I grew up in a family environment that allowed me to have thoughts that were out-of-the-box, so I didn't feel bad about it but became curious whether there were other young men like me. Turned out there were.

"Keep in mind that anybody who finds out in his sixties (ten years ago) that he is gay, grew up in a totally different time from us. Not only was it normal even in the west to have discriminating laws, there was also a lot less of TV and certainly no internet when these people grew up."

Oh, nonsense! Things were so much better in the 1970's than now. Believe me,child.

[onthemoon]

Has anyone ever looked into how tolerant a Society is and how higher are the number of people who are (or identify themselves as) Gay?

Just thinking that, a place like Thailand, with it's more liberal asocial/sexual attitude (don't know if that's the correct term) would have a higher percentage of acknowledged Gays then say the UK or the USA etc.

In essence, comparing the Thai Gay population to say the World average ... if there is such a thing.

Yes, you see more gay people if the society they live in is more tolerant. I already mentioned it in a previous post that people are more likely to admit it to themselves, but of course even if they do in an intolerant society, it does not mean that they'll come out of the closet. Do you don't see them.

[onthemoon]

I used to work in the Economic Development section of the Government, we were charged with diversifying the Economic base of the City as it relied to much on Tourism, Retail and Construction. Accordingly, we looked at and benched marked factors which effect a City and it's growth prospects.

We did note, that the centers with a higher Gay population did have a (slightly) higher GDP then the Nations average. It was, but one of many indicators we analysied. Statistically, I don't remember the sample size or the acceptable statistical error deviation ... interesting notion though.

It is called the "Pink Dollar" in Marketing.

To use a term from the 1990s: Gays are DINKs (double income, no kids) and therefore have more disposable income.

[onthemoon]

How about guys who identified as straight and had families but found out they were gay when they were in their 40s or 50s? I know some of those too.

Another interesting point (as I have no idea) ... I sort of thought that Gays knew early where attraction lies.

That said, my mind is open and happy to receive the comments as such.

Some know early on, others don't. I believe it has to do with the place and the way you were brought up. If you grow up in a world in which homosexuality does not exist and you don't see it anywhere, you wouldn't likely admit it to yourself. If you see and hear of other gay people, it is more likely that you join them and develop a self-confidence about it.

Keep in mind that anybody who finds out in his sixties (ten years ago) that he is gay, grew up in a totally different time from us. Not only was it normal even in the west to have discriminating laws, there was also a lot less of TV and certainly no internet when these people grew up.

Gee, I know I first thought that I was the only gay in the world when I noticed that I was different, but at least I grew up in a family environment that allowed me to have thoughts that were out-of-the-box, so I didn't feel bad about it but became curious whether there were other young men like me. Turned out there were.

"Keep in mind that anybody who finds out in his sixties (ten years ago) that he is gay, grew up in a totally different time from us. Not only was it normal even in the west to have discriminating laws, there was also a lot less of TV and certainly no internet when these people grew up."

Oh, nonsense! Things were so much better in the 1970's than now. Believe me,child.

Well well well. I think it depends on where you lived then, and where you live now. I was in my coming out in the 70s, and sure did I have fun, but I did not know many gay managers or politicians or other public figures, so I wasn't a relaxed about being gay as I am now. It is easier now for young people to feel good about their sexuality and come out. Sure, we had fun, but "the good old days" weren't always so good.

[Jingthing]

It is called the "Pink Dollar" in Marketing.

To use a term from the 1990s: Gays are DINKs (double income, no kids) and therefore have more disposable income.

This "positive stereotype" of gay affluence is massively OVERBLOWN and used by anti-gay political forces to attack gay people as being a super privileged economic class ALREADY so not really deserving of any anti-discrimination legal protection.

This topic is already being discussed in a fresh topic here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/714070-myth-of-gay-affluence-debunked/

Does every gay forum topic need to be about EVERYTHING?

Edited April 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Well well well. I think it depends on where you lived then, and where you live now. I was in my coming out in the 70s, and sure did I have fun, but I did not know many gay managers or politicians or other public figures, so I wasn't a relaxed about being gay as I am now. It is easier now for young people to feel good about their sexuality and come out. Sure, we had fun, but "the good old days" weren't always so good.

There is a current topic here on coming out:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/698546-gay-people-will-always-need-to-come-out/

Edited April 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Yes, you see more gay people if the society they live in is more tolerant. I already mentioned it in a previous post that people are more likely to admit it to themselves, but of course even if they do in an intolerant society, it does not mean that they'll come out of the closet. Do you don't see them.

This conclusion is a MASSIVE simplification. You can't compare wildly different societies directly on such a limited basis. Especially as here you're talking about a WESTERN model of what "GAY" even is compared to the incredibly different THAI concept of that.

This topic is already being covered on a fresh current topic here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/719786-reflections-on-gender-and-sexual-orientation-issues-in-thailand/

Does every gay forum topic need to be about EVERYTHING?

Edited April 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[sustento]

I see the vendetta is back in town.

[Jingthing]

I see the vendetta is back in town.

You can see what you want, but if I have strong disagreements with stereotypes that are bandied about here as FACT, I have the same right to respond as anyone else.

Such as the promotion here of the myth of gay affluence and the naive suggestion that Thailand is a super tolerant place for GAY people in the WESTERN sense.

[sustento]

I see the vendetta is back in town.

You can see what you want, but if I have strong disagreements with stereotypes that are bandied about here as FACT, I have the same right to respond as anyone else.

Such as the promotion here of the myth of gay affluence and the naive suggestion that Thailand is a super tolerant place for GAY people in the WESTERN sense.

On the other hand it could be that the thread was started by someone you don't like and is heading in a way that you disagree with so, as usual, you're trying to control it by doing a bit of unofficial modding.

[Jingthing]

On the other hand it could be that the thread was started by someone you don't like and is heading in a way that you disagree with so, as usual, you're trying to control it by doing a bit of unofficial modding.

Again you can think what you want but I am not going to be sucked into personality/gossip games here. So if you think you can bait me into that, don't waste your time.

I had strong content disagreements with the points above and my rebuttals have been made. The reality was there is already a large amount of content on other threads about those issues so pointing to those other threads was entirely logical. There was no point in going into detailed rebuttals on those various points as yes that would be TOO REPETITIVE, in my opinion. Especially as they were ALL current threads.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[anon11]

Does it matter how many gay people there are........and WHY is you make a point of you NOT being gay ......ummmmmm not out of the closet yet.....

[Jingthing]

Does it matter how many gay people there are........and WHY is you make a point of you NOT being gay ......ummmmmm not out of the closet yet.....

Some people really are straight.

As far as it mattering, in an ideal world it shouldn't matter.

But we don't live in such a world.

So the perception of the percentage of gay people in any given country (as we've established an exact percentage isn't realistic) can be used for political purposes, both pro gay rights and anti.

I remember when the 1 in 10 PR pro gay rights meme was big. I am sure it wasn't done with deceptive intentions. 1 in 10 sounded like quite a lot of people and it was supported by KINSEY research so why not use it to telegraph to the majority public that a people of such numbers deserved full inclusion in societies?

At this later point in international awareness of the existence of GLBT people (excepting some countries where political leaders have claimed they've got NO gays and we know that isn't possible) I think GLBT should not be afraid of the actual TRUTH about the percentages in populations. We are no longer INVISIBLE that's for sure, whatever the percentage.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[David48]

Does it matter how many gay people there are........and WHY is you make a point of you NOT being gay ......ummmmmm not out of the closet yet.....

Thank you inquiring ... but I'm happy with my sexuality.

I'm not Gay, I don't have to defend my statement ... it's simply that simple.

What I do have is an inquiring mind and, for the most, the guys here are a great bunch, so why not take the time to get to know an integral part of the population I'm not familiar with?

[Jingthing]

More on the actual topic:

I often hear LGBT advocates lament that it seems absurd that they don’t have equal rights in this country, given how large their community is.



As a demographer, I look at it a little differently. I’m amazed at how close we are to equality, given how small the community is.
Both perspectives are certainly valid, but both depend in part on an accurate assessment of the LGBT community — however you define it.
Assumptions about people are flimsy; numbers are solid. The reality of our political system is that you don’t really count unless you are counted. So it’s time to stop believing an old estimate and start making an accurate count.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gay-people-count-so-why-not-count-them-correctly/2011/04/07/AFDg9K4C_story.html

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies have been deleted.

Continued sniping will earn suspensions.

[thaicurious]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-11-12/how-people-lie-about-gay-sex-and-homophobia

...Recent research uncovers strong evidence of preference falsification in the U.S. When people are assured of anonymity, it turns out, a lot more of them will acknowledge that they have had same-sex experiences and that they don’t entirely identify as heterosexual...

...two approaches produced significantly different results. In the best practices survey, 17 percent of participants said they had had a sexual experience with someone of the same sex (12 percent of men, 24 percent of women). For the veiled report, the corresponding number was 27 percent (17 percent of men and 43 percent of women) -- an increase of 58 percent....

...In the best practices survey, 11 percent of the population said that they didn’t consider themselves to be heterosexual. In the veiled report, that number jumped to almost 19 percent -- an increase of 65 percent....

...The effect of assuring anonymity varied significantly across demographic groups. The veiled survey had no effect on the answers of young people to questions about their sexual orientation, apparently because social norms don’t much discourage young people from revealing the truth....

...But among Christians and older people, the effect of the veiled approach was especially large, increasing their reports of non-heterosexuality and of same-sex experiences by more than 100 percent....

Edited April 23, 2014 by thaicurious

[Jingthing]

I saw that before too and couldn't find it before. Suggesting a much higher percentage of gayness. Of course the same old issue, gay sex experiences vs. SELF IDENTIFICATION as gay person ...

[thaicurious]

I'd read it a while back too but managed to find it for this thread. Thank you advanced google search. That particular article--I also perused only the abstract, not the entire study--doesn't say 19% are gay, but that 19% don't consider themselves to be hetero. So, I assume that means within that 19 are also bi & asexual etc.

A much higher number than has been previously seriously considered. whether by sexual practice or orientation or identity, still telling. It certainly helps to account for all the craigslist downlow ads.

Edited April 23, 2014 by thaicurious