Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?

[NewlyMintedThai]

I've done it. No bribes. No big guns. No Thai blood.

This seems to be a message people don't want to hear, though.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[samran]

I would have thought that a farang bringing cash into LOS was an asset to LOS, never taking a single baht from LOS. Where as a farang paying taxes in LOS means he is taking money from LOS to do what he/she wants with it, and not necessarily spending that cash in LOS.

Seriously?

If you pay tax in Thailand the money stays in Thailand. If you are working here you spend your money in Thailand. If you eventually qualify for citizenship then your money will never leave Thailand. You work and build things, contribution to Thailand.

You, you bring over a frozen pension, and expect to be congratulated for it compared with the guys who live and work and pay taxes (do you??).

Using your warped logic then I guess the British goverment better strip your wife of her uk passport given she's spending her money overseas.

[HardenedSoul]

Come on; you guys are more than smart enough to realise the guy's yankin' yer chain.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I think that anyone in possession of a Tourist Police Volunteer polo shirt should receive an instant passport, title of nobility, and a secret decoder ring.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[transam]

I would have thought that a farang bringing cash into LOS was an asset to LOS, never taking a single baht from LOS. Where as a farang paying taxes in LOS means he is taking money from LOS to do what he/she wants with it, and not necessarily spending that cash in LOS.

Seriously?

If you pay tax in Thailand the money stays in Thailand. If you are working here you spend your money in Thailand. If you eventually qualify for citizenship then your money will never leave Thailand. You work and build things, contribution to Thailand.

You, you bring over a frozen pension, and expect to be congratulated for it compared with the guys who live and work and pay taxes (do you??).

Using your warped logic then I guess the British goverment better strip your wife of her uk passport given she's spending her money overseas.

Really, a farang tax payer in LOS, books flights wherever he wants to go on a non Thai airline, where does his mega baht go.?

[transam]

I think that anyone in possession of a Tourist Police Volunteer polo shirt should receive an instant passport, title of nobility, and a secret decoder ring.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Totally agree

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I would have thought that a farang bringing cash into LOS was an asset to LOS, never taking a single baht from LOS. Where as a farang paying taxes in LOS means he is taking money from LOS to do what he/she wants with it, and not necessarily spending that cash in LOS.

Seriously?

If you pay tax in Thailand the money stays in Thailand. If you are working here you spend your money in Thailand. If you eventually qualify for citizenship then your money will never leave Thailand. You work and build things, contribution to Thailand.

You, you bring over a frozen pension, and expect to be congratulated for it compared with the guys who live and work and pay taxes (do you??).

Using your warped logic then I guess the British goverment better strip your wife of her uk passport given she's spending her money overseas.

The only money a young foreigner earning in Thailand brings into Thailand is tax on 50k a month for 3 years.

That appears to work out at about 400KBht. One could argue that isn't bringing any money into Thailand, as he is taking it from a Thai worker.

A pensioner that marries his woman in Thailand buys a house usually bringing in at least 3M straight away. Then another 1M for the car, etc.

One could argue a pensioner with a Thai wife has much greater cash value to Thailand than a foreign worker.

Most foreigners working in Thailand are of the 'minimum wage' variety.

One might go as far to say (from those foreigners I have seen working in Thailand), that Thailand shouldn't want any foreigner as a citizen, that needed to work in Thailand.

Edited April 22, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Tmymaimee]

There are very few Thai companies that can successfully compete against foreign managed companies. You see this in almost every industry, whether computers, automotive, aviation, hotels, retail, engineering, oil and gas or whatever. Most rich Thais know the reason why they are rich - because they have managed to keep Thai businesses protected from open competition. They dare not venture outside Thailand because they know the reality. Something so simple as Walmart's return policy is completely lost to Thai companies.

Because these same rich Thais influence government policy with the goal of protecting their lifestyle and wealth, they will do everything they can to limit competition. One easy way is to limit what foreigners can work at in Thailand. If they can prevent a foreigner from obtaining naturalization, either through birth or marriage, that is one less foreigner they have to compete with.

I started and operated a very successful business overseas prior to moving here. Imagine if I married my girlfriend and then obtained all Thai rights. I could take my same business experience and simply crush local competitors. Thais just don't have the education, drive and motivation to take on foreigners. Those that do work outside of Thailand.

[HardenedSoul]

This isn't about business protectionism

If you had a comfortable business monopoly in your country, would you welcome legislation that ended it?

Didn't think so

Whatever the reasons for those rules - competition or otherwise - why would the authorities turn around and give a foreigner privileged status for marrying a Thai woman and spending money in the country when he's already been doing it for years?

Is someone like Transam or the OP really gonna pack up and piss off?

' course not

[Berkshire]

I started and operated a very successful business overseas prior to moving here. Imagine if I married my girlfriend and then obtained all Thai rights. I could take my same business experience and simply crush local competitors. Thais just don't have the education, drive and motivation to take on foreigners. Those that do work outside of Thailand.

Yeah, right. You and all the other wannabe's can be so successful in Thailand, if only (fill in with lame excuse). Let's put it this way, if you had the ability to run a successful business in Thailand, you would have already. But you don't.

[transam]

I started and operated a very successful business overseas prior to moving here. Imagine if I married my girlfriend and then obtained all Thai rights. I could take my same business experience and simply crush local competitors. Thais just don't have the education, drive and motivation to take on foreigners. Those that do work outside of Thailand.

Yeah, right. You and all the other wannabe's can be so successful in Thailand, if only (fill in with lame excuse). Let's put it this way, if you had the ability to run a successful business in Thailand, you would have already. But you don't.

Who does, not me, to many corruption hand outs for one. Two, must have Thai folk involved...Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah........

[samran]

Come on; you guys are more than smart enough to realise the guy's yankin' yer chain.

I think he really isn't that smart and these are his genuine thoughts. He ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Tmymaimee]

I started and operated a very successful business overseas prior to moving here. Imagine if I married my girlfriend and then obtained all Thai rights. I could take my same business experience and simply crush local competitors. Thais just don't have the education, drive and motivation to take on foreigners. Those that do work outside of Thailand.

Yeah, right. You and all the other wannabe's can be so successful in Thailand, if only (fill in with lame excuse). Let's put it this way, if you had the ability to run a successful business in Thailand, you would have already. But you don't.

It was so successful that I no longer need to work. Why would I want to do it all over again in Thailand, working 80 hour weeks, no free time and always preoccupied with customers, competitors, suppliers and so on? Running a business consumes your entire life. I did it, made my money and sold it at its peak. Smart guys make their money early then invest so they no longer have to work.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I started and operated a very successful business overseas prior to moving here. Imagine if I married my girlfriend and then obtained all Thai rights. I could take my same business experience and simply crush local competitors. Thais just don't have the education, drive and motivation to take on foreigners. Those that do work outside of Thailand.

Yeah, right. You and all the other wannabe's can be so successful in Thailand, if only (fill in with lame excuse). Let's put it this way, if you had the ability to run a successful business in Thailand, you would have already. But you don't.

Most people who have the ability to run a successful business wouldn't consider running it in Thailand.

The profit just isn't here.

And if you want some idea of profit ....... my basic fees billed at $600/hour back in the USA, and I could work every hour I wanted.

But most foreigners could come here, buy themselves a taxi, and make 50k a month.

Which is the sort of business many foreigners profitably run in the USA.

In fact, many retired foreigners could easily start up a similar business to their occupation in their home country, and make decent money from it.

Builder, painter, electrician, carpenter, plumber, etc.

Is there anyone on this forum that wouldn't employ a qualified foreign tradesman to work on their house build?

The be all and end all of business success isn't being an office manager.

I wonder how many foreign people there are working in, what most of us would consider as, worthwhile professions in Thailand?

Doctors, engineers, qualified education professionals, etc.

Sorry to be off topic.

But the concept that successful foreign western businesspeople come to Thailand to run a business and make 'loads of money' is just laughable.

Well done, to Whereyoustay for beating me to it!

Edited April 22, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[samran]

I would have thought that a farang bringing cash into LOS was an asset to LOS, never taking a single baht from LOS. Where as a farang paying taxes in LOS means he is taking money from LOS to do what he/she wants with it, and not necessarily spending that cash in LOS.

Seriously?

If you pay tax in Thailand the money stays in Thailand. If you are working here you spend your money in Thailand. If you eventually qualify for citizenship then your money will never leave Thailand. You work and build things, contribution to Thailand.

You, you bring over a frozen pension, and expect to be congratulated for it compared with the guys who live and work and pay taxes (do you??).

Using your warped logic then I guess the British goverment better strip your wife of her uk passport given she's spending her money overseas.

The only money a young foreigner earning in Thailand brings into Thailand is tax on 50k a month for 3 years.

That appears to work out at about 400KBht. One could argue that isn't bringing any money into Thailand, as he is taking it from a Thai worker.

A pensioner that marries his woman in Thailand buys a house usually bringing in at least 3M straight away. Then another 1M for the car, etc.

One could argue a pensioner with a Thai wife has much greater cash value to Thailand than a foreign worker.

Most foreigners working in Thailand are of the 'minimum wage' variety.

One might go as far to say (from those foreigners I have seen working in Thailand), that Thailand shouldn't want any foreigner as a citizen, that needed to work in Thailand.

You are thinking of work as a zero sum game. You win, the Thai guy loses. It is a dumb line used by populist politicians and swallowed by the gullible.

The young English teacher is teaching someone a skill, which if the student learns well will increase their income potential and their productivity. A win win.

A foreigner starts up a business - creates jobs, pays taxes, and if successful offers a service for consumers that they never had before.

Economics is never about absolutes, winners and losers. It is about growing the pie for everyone.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You are thinking of work as a zero sum game. You win, the Thai guy loses. It is a dumb line used by populist politicians and swallowed by the gullible.

The young English teacher is teaching someone a skill, which if the student learns well will increase their income potential and their productivity. A win win.

A foreigner starts up a business - creates jobs, pays taxes, and if successful offers a service for consumers that they never had before.

Economics is never about absolutes, winners and losers. It is about growing the pie for everyone.

Married or not

The young English teacher in Thailand is generally not qualified to teach in his home country.

These people aren't professionals, mostly they are desperate losers. They have little or no teaching skills, they don't earn enough and their contracts of employment aren't sufficient for them to qualify for Thai citizenship. Thai schools aren't interested in teaching their students English. If they were, they would employ qualified educational professionals licensed to teach in their home countries at wages and with contracts which would allow them a path to Thai citizenship. Instead, they employ the cheapest staff on the shortest term contract they can get.

The foreigner who starts up a business in Thailand rarely qualifies for citizenship, they aren't generally considered 'employed' by the Thai authorities.

It would be interesting to know what employment someone who obtained citizenship actually had in Thailand?

I think they would mainly fall in the financial services category of employment or would have been wealthy enough to buy citizenship with false employment and large bribes. (I might be completely wrong on that)

Not everyone is lucky like you and I.

[samran]

You may be right on how keen they are to teach english, but my point remains. Work, as a general rule, enlarges the pie for everyone. They are providing a service which is wanted (whatever the quality which varies substantially). Whether or not they qualify for citizenship is a different kettle of fish.

As for people who start businesses, I think you are wrong. They are prime candidates. They work in their businesses, have work permits pay taxes and create jobs. I know for a fact a couple of people with varying business backgrounds who have either gotten citizenship or have applied, with species branch more than happy to see them.

[ben2203]

@newlymintedthai

Ha ha, yeah I am coming to that conclusion

[Neeranam]

You are thinking of work as a zero sum game. You win, the Thai guy loses. It is a dumb line used by populist politicians and swallowed by the gullible.

The young English teacher is teaching someone a skill, which if the student learns well will increase their income potential and their productivity. A win win.

A foreigner starts up a business - creates jobs, pays taxes, and if successful offers a service for consumers that they never had before.

Economics is never about absolutes, winners and losers. It is about growing the pie for everyone.

Married or not

The young English teacher in Thailand is generally not qualified to teach in his home country.

These people aren't professionals, mostly they are desperate losers. They have little or no teaching skills, they don't earn enough and their contracts of employment aren't sufficient for them to qualify for Thai citizenship. Thai schools aren't interested in teaching their students English. If they were, they would employ qualified educational professionals licensed to teach in their home countries at wages and with contracts which would allow them a path to Thai citizenship. Instead, they employ the cheapest staff on the shortest term contract they can get.

The foreigner who starts up a business in Thailand rarely qualifies for citizenship, they aren't generally considered 'employed' by the Thai authorities.

It would be interesting to know what employment someone who obtained citizenship actually had in Thailand?

I think they would mainly fall in the financial services category of employment or would have been wealthy enough to buy citizenship with false employment and large bribes. (I might be completely wrong on that)

Not everyone is lucky like you and I.

I think you ARE completely wrong. Calling young English teachers pathetic losers is way off the mark. I'd be willing to bet that you've applied for a teaching position before, reading between the lines.

[NewlyMintedThai]

It would be interesting to know what employment someone who obtained citizenship actually had in Thailand?

I think they would mainly fall in the financial services category of employment or would have been wealthy enough to buy citizenship with false employment and large bribes. (I might be completely wrong on that)

Yup. You are completely, totally, wrong.

I can't even balance my check book, much less work for a financial services company.

Everyone I have met through this process has been an ordinary person, like me. Not rich. Not powerful. And certainly not paying any bribes.

I had a small company making small profits and employing only a small number of people (less than twenty). Many times money was so short I couldn't make payroll.

There are so many wildly incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings about the citizenship route, it's almost comical. It seems that people are almost making up excuses why they think it is impossible for them, to justify not getting off their butts and putting in an application. Sad, really.

[ben2203]

It would be interesting to know what employment someone who obtained citizenship actually had in Thailand?

I think they would mainly fall in the financial services category of employment or would have been wealthy enough to buy citizenship with false employment and large bribes. (I might be completely wrong on that)

Yup. You are completely, totally, wrong.

I can't even balance my check book, much less work for a financial services company.

Everyone I have met through this process has been an ordinary person, like me. Not rich. Not powerful. And certainly not paying any bribes.

I had a small company making small profits and employing only a small number of people (less than twenty). Many times money was so short I couldn't make payroll.

There are so many wildly incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings about the citizenship route, it's almost comical. It seems that people are almost making up excuses why they think it is impossible for them, to justify not getting off their butts and putting in an application. Sad, really.

Ha ha, again, the more you post and give your two cents worth of basically good information, the more the topic will be changed or your post will be ignored.

I read an article yesterday actually from the straits times that a Thai passport is ranked quite low on those accepted with visa free issues and no restrictions basically because many Thais go missing when they enter foreign countries that it becomes problematic for foreign governments.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think you ARE completely wrong. Calling young English teachers pathetic losers is way off the mark. I'd be willing to bet that you've applied for a teaching position before, reading between the lines.

I wouldn't work in any employment that offered less than $600 an hour.

(My minimum hourly fee in the USA)

There are so many wildly incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings about the citizenship route, it's almost comical. It seems that people are almost making up excuses why they think it is impossible for them, to justify not getting off their butts and putting in an application. Sad, really.

Clearly not in my case, as I am Thai by birth.

Edited April 23, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[nisakiman]

I think that anyone in possession of a Tourist Police Volunteer polo shirt should receive an instant passport, title of nobility, and a secret decoder ring.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Totally agree

Don't forget the X-ray glasses.

[Arkady]

It's an old chestnut. Since 2008 you can apply for Thai citizenship without PR, if married to a Thai and working in Thailand earning at least B40k a month. If not working, you can obtain 1-year visa extensions indefinitely by showing cash of B400k. Neither of these financial hurdles is very high, compared to most other countries in the world, but the process for applying for Thai citizenship is rather long and some knowledge of Thai is required.

[garrya]

To be fair, the USA does not even lets Thais visit the country without jumping through all kinds of hoops including medical tests and waiting online and being interviewed at 6:00 am...

The OP mentioned "civilized countries".

[Arkady]

You are thinking of work as a zero sum game. You win, the Thai guy loses. It is a dumb line used by populist politicians and swallowed by the gullible.

The young English teacher is teaching someone a skill, which if the student learns well will increase their income potential and their productivity. A win win.

A foreigner starts up a business - creates jobs, pays taxes, and if successful offers a service for consumers that they never had before.

Economics is never about absolutes, winners and losers. It is about growing the pie for everyone.

Married or not

The young English teacher in Thailand is generally not qualified to teach in his home country.

These people aren't professionals, mostly they are desperate losers. They have little or no teaching skills, they don't earn enough and their contracts of employment aren't sufficient for them to qualify for Thai citizenship. Thai schools aren't interested in teaching their students English. If they were, they would employ qualified educational professionals licensed to teach in their home countries at wages and with contracts which would allow them a path to Thai citizenship. Instead, they employ the cheapest staff on the shortest term contract they can get.

The foreigner who starts up a business in Thailand rarely qualifies for citizenship, they aren't generally considered 'employed' by the Thai authorities.

It would be interesting to know what employment someone who obtained citizenship actually had in Thailand?

I think they would mainly fall in the financial services category of employment or would have been wealthy enough to buy citizenship with false employment and large bribes. (I might be completely wrong on that)

Not everyone is lucky like you and I.

The truth is that probably the majority of people who apply for Thai citizenship are Asians (Chinese, Indians etc) who have their own successful businesses in Thailand. Most have wives from their own country and therefore have to have PR before applying for citizenship. Very few farangs apply (less than 5%) which really helps to explain why so few farangs get it.

I don't understand why some one working in financial services in Thailand would need to create false employment and pay large bribes. Why would they not apply through the normal channels using their genuine documents?