Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?

[bkkjames]

i cant see there would be anything that one would gain,???

apart from not having to do visa/imigration,

the only thing i can see is people who are short of money,and im not being cleaver here,

if they didnt have to show money in the bank they could live here,,on there state pentions,

i just cant see the advantage,,,

but each to there own

jake

Land.

[pigeonjake]

i dont live like a second grade citizen,,im very intigrated into our village life,,

why do i need a thai passport??

[sustento]

I know of several expats that married to a local, paid huge taxes and in no time they were Thai citizens.

Ok, I will play along. been here 15 years paying taxes every year, married for 7, have 2 half thai sons...the question is how much extra did these expats pay under the table?

Have you actually tried to apply for citizenship?

Or pay under the table.......................Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, WE don't do that..........................

I don't think Samran, dbrenn or Camerata paid under the table. They just lived in Thailand long enough, paid their taxes, applied and were successful.

[pigeonjake]

land

that could possibly be why the government dont want rich alians coming here to buy up the land that poor thais cant afford

[sustento]

I know of several expats that married to a local, paid huge taxes and in no time they were Thai citizens.

Ok, I will play along. been here 15 years paying taxes every year, married for 7, have 2 half thai sons...the question is how much extra did these expats pay under the table?

Have you actually tried to apply for citizenship?

well no, thought about it but after reading on here mostly how it takes years / decades/ lifetimes....

You have to have lived in the UK for 5 years before you can apply for citizenship there. I believe the same is true of Thailand.

[Suradit69]

If they made it easier but stipulated you had to give up your home countries nanionality would you do it?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

A kind of funny you bring this up this way, stipulating till it becomes nearly impossible is a practice quit commonly done not only in Thailand.

My wife was asked to do the same when she applied for her passport, but notice the nuance 'asked' not 'told' because they couldn't legally demand this for obvious reasons. This is a old trick to demotivate applicants.

To answer your question, Yes I would.

"In contradiction with many other 'civilized' countries Thailand doesn't offer the naturalization option to aliens married with a Thai national."

So you're eager to become a citizen of a country that's not, in your judgement, civilized and yet you're mystified as to why this uncivilized country isn't jumping at the change of getting you all to themselves ... or maybe Thailand is civilized in all matters except when you don't get what you want.

[Rimbuman]

If they made it easier but stipulated you had to give up your home countries nanionality would you do it?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

A kind of funny you bring this up this way, stipulating till it becomes nearly impossible is a practice quit commonly done not only in Thailand.

My wife was asked to do the same when she applied for her passport, but notice the nuance 'asked' not 'told' because they couldn't legally demand this for obvious reasons. This is a old trick to demotivate applicants.

To answer your question, Yes I would.

"In contradiction with many other 'civilized' countries Thailand doesn't offer the naturalization option to aliens married with a Thai national."

So you're eager to become a citizen of a country that's not, in your judgement, civilized and yet you're mystified as to why this uncivilized country isn't jumping at the change of getting you all to themselves ... or maybe Thailand is civilized in all matters except when you don't get what you want.

I put the word civilized between markers because I find it a multi facetted word. Reality is different everywhere you go.

You can assume all you want, I really don't care. If you read my posts than my intentions should be clear.

[sturdyd]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

[NoshowJones]

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

The Thais have got it right but only up to a point, most of the foreigners that move to the UK do so for the handouts, not to contribute to the country, we move to Thailand and also contribute to the country. Transam has already explained that.

[laislica]

I won't have to give up my British(soon to be Scottish) nationality. Most countries allow dual citizenship.

It's a myth that Thailand doesn't grant those serious of living and working here citizenship, mainly spread on bar stools by those who show no inclination to integrate.

Can an old retired guy like me, married to a Thai get citizenship ?........... ....Eeeeeeeeeeer........Don't think so........

But the other way round Mrs.Trans can in the UK.

But only if you can get a settlement visa for her, she must pass the read, write and knowledge tests and can prove she has enough funds to support herself etc. etc hoops, hoops

[samran]

I know of several expats that married to a local, paid huge taxes and in no time they were Thai citizens.

Ok, I will play along. been here 15 years paying taxes every year, married for 7, have 2 half thai sons...the question is how much extra did these expats pay under the table?

Why don't you just apply then instead of wondering? Go down to special branch and ask about applying...

Suspect you'll be pleasantly surprised how helpful they are given you are the target demographic. And I doubt you'll see anyone with their hand out.

[YeahSiam]

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

The Thais have got it right but only up to a point, most of the foreigners that move to the UK do so for the handouts, not to contribute to the country, we move to Thailand and also contribute to the country. Transam has already explained that.

Oh give it a rest.

"MOST" foreigners moving to the UK do so for the handouts?

Care to provide proof of that or is that just a populist line you've borrowed from the idiots over at UKIP?

I've been on the tube and the buses at the crack of dawn and it's full of immigrants going to WORK in the cleaning and stacking jobs the pissed up feral white kids stumbling in from an all-night rave on the estate at 6am think are beneath them.

We move to Thailand but we expect the Thais to change stuff to suit us just because we spend a few dollars in the malls and the bars.

More than a few of us also try to live like teenagers again and eat crap, drink like fish and expect the local hospitals to save our asses when we arrive on a gurney with a pickled liver and no medical cover.

[transam]

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

The Thais have got it right but only up to a point, most of the foreigners that move to the UK do so for the handouts, not to contribute to the country, we move to Thailand and also contribute to the country. Transam has already explained that.

Oh give it a rest.

"MOST" foreigners moving to the UK do so for the handouts?

Care to provide proof of that or is that just a populist line you've borrowed from the idiots over at UKIP?

I've been on the tube and the buses at the crack of dawn and it's full of immigrants going to WORK in the cleaning and stacking jobs the pissed up feral white kids stumbling in from an all-night rave on the estate at 6am think are beneath them.

We move to Thailand but we expect the Thais to change stuff to suit us just because we spend a few dollars in the malls and the bars.

More than a few of us also try to live like teenagers again and eat crap, drink like fish and expect the local hospitals to save our asses when we arrive on a gurney with a pickled liver and no medical cover.

Your talking crappppppppppppppp........................

[Rimbuman]

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

The Thais have got it right but only up to a point, most of the foreigners that move to the UK do so for the handouts, not to contribute to the country, we move to Thailand and also contribute to the country. Transam has already explained that.

Oh give it a rest.

"MOST" foreigners moving to the UK do so for the handouts?

Care to provide proof of that or is that just a populist line you've borrowed from the idiots over at UKIP?

I've been on the tube and the buses at the crack of dawn and it's full of immigrants going to WORK in the cleaning and stacking jobs the pissed up feral white kids stumbling in from an all-night rave on the estate at 6am think are beneath them.

We move to Thailand but we expect the Thais to change stuff to suit us just because we spend a few dollars in the malls and the bars.

More than a few of us also try to live like teenagers again and eat crap, drink like fish and expect the local hospitals to save our asses when we arrive on a gurney with a pickled liver and no medical cover.

That's another way of looking at it, but again not a very broad view, because not all of us are like that.

This was not the original idea of the OP, I tried to see if some falang for falang idea would be possible, but I guess we falang in Thailand are more divided than the Thai.

[laislica]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

Spot on!

I'm a Brit married to a Thai but I live in Spain.

We jumped through a mountain of hoops both in Thailand and Spain.

In Spain it took 5 months to get her registered as a resident there, good for 5years.

She also has full free national health cover as my wife.

Can work if she want's to.

Can own property.

Can travel anywhere in the Schengan countries - NOT the UK and was refused a visa to accompany me on a holiday to meet my family and friends.

No 90 day reports

No re-entry permits - can come and go as she likes, no questions.

In 5 years she will need to renew her ID card - like everyone else has to but it will be a routine matter.

Never mind Thai citizenship, let us also jump the hoops and then grant us a Foreigners resident's permit, good for 5 or more years. Allow such Foreign residents to do any work without a WP. Allow national health cover (if the Thai qualified for it - same as the UK requirement).

I think this would give most of us what we want, no 90 day reports, visa extensions and re-entry permits and no work permits or job restrictions.

Like the OP, I wondered why Thai wives don't band together and demand this!

Clearly, it would be the Farang husbands that would need to do all the organisation, but the wives are the only ones qualified to campaign - they are THAI, it's their country, their problem.

[pigeonjake]

i dont think we are divided,,as you put it,

i just think some of us are happy with the way things are,

my old grandad used to say why try and mend something that isnt broke,,

can i ask you a question,?

if this could work, the way you want it,

how would the goverment vet people who are coming in, some would just want to marry just to get passport as they do in other countries, and that caurses big trouble,

who could say you could have a pasport but i couldnt, what do you think would be the criteria,?

have so much in the bank,,, same as now,

have a skill,, ive worked in thailand,,with my skill,

it would take a lot of keeping up with,,

jake

ps,,i like a good debate on a sunday,,,lol

[laislica]

i dont think we are divided,,as you put it,

i just think some of us are happy with the way things are,

my old grandad used to say why try and mend something that isnt broke,,

can i ask you a question,?

if this could work, the way you want it,

how would the goverment vet people who are coming in, some would just want to marry just to get passport as they do in other countries, and that caurses big trouble,

who could say you could have a pasport but i couldnt, what do you think would be the criteria,?

have so much in the bank,,, same as now,

have a skill,, ive worked in thailand,,with my skill,

it would take a lot of keeping up with,,

jake

ps,,i like a good debate on a sunday,,,lol

I agree, it would pose a lot of problems and a big team to deal with it.

See the previous post - allow those who qualify to have a Foreigners Resident ID

I do not want Thai nationality.

I do want to come and go or work without mountains of paperwork and time to complete the paperwork.

[pigeonjake]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

Spot on!

I'm a Brit married to a Thai but I live in Spain.

We jumped through a mountain of hoops both in Thailand and Spain.

In Spain it took 5 months to get her registered as a resident there, good for 5years.

She also has full free national health cover as my wife.

Can work if she want's to.

Can own property.

Can travel anywhere in the Schengan countries - NOT the UK and was refused a visa to accompany me on a holiday to meet my family and friends.

No 90 day reports

No re-entry permits - can come and go as she likes, no questions.

In 5 years she will need to renew her ID card - like everyone else has to but it will be a routine matter.

Never mind Thai citizenship, let us also jump the hoops and then grant us a Foreigners resident's permit, good for 5 or more years. Allow such Foreign residents to do any work without a WP. Allow national health cover (if the Thai qualified for it - same as the UK requirement).

I think this would give most of us what we want, no 90 day reports, visa extensions and re-entry permits and no work permits or job restrictions.

Like the OP, I wondered why Thai wives don't band together and demand this!

Clearly, it would be the Farang husbands that would need to do all the organisation, but the wives are the only ones qualified to campaign - they are THAI, it's their country, their problem.

i agree with some of this,

im not botherd about owning property,,, i trust my wife,,

the 5 year visa would be good, not having to report ect,,,but i still think you should have to show money in the bank,,

i dont think you should get free health care,, you havnt paid into the country,,,and i mean that for the uk too,,lol,

i also dont think you should be able to work in a job that a thai cant do as now,,, apart from, if you and your wife had a farm,,, now your going to say im selfish, because we have a farm,,

what i mean is if you own the bussines then yes you can work it,, but not to just go and get a job to top up your pention,,

again, my views arnt going to please everyone,

but there is no need to be rude to one another just because we have different views on this,,

it would be a sad world if we all thought the same,,

jake

[Rimbuman]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

Spot on!

I'm a Brit married to a Thai but I live in Spain.

We jumped through a mountain of hoops both in Thailand and Spain.

In Spain it took 5 months to get her registered as a resident there, good for 5years.

She also has full free national health cover as my wife.

Can work if she want's to.

Can own property.

Can travel anywhere in the Schengan countries - NOT the UK and was refused a visa to accompany me on a holiday to meet my family and friends.

No 90 day reports

No re-entry permits - can come and go as she likes, no questions.

In 5 years she will need to renew her ID card - like everyone else has to but it will be a routine matter.

Never mind Thai citizenship, let us also jump the hoops and then grant us a Foreigners resident's permit, good for 5 or more years. Allow such Foreign residents to do any work without a WP. Allow national health cover (if the Thai qualified for it - same as the UK requirement).

I think this would give most of us what we want, no 90 day reports, visa extensions and re-entry permits and no work permits or job restrictions.

Like the OP, I wondered why Thai wives don't band together and demand this!

Clearly, it would be the Farang husbands that would need to do all the organisation, but the wives are the only ones qualified to campaign - they are THAI, it's their country, their problem.

Agree, also what you state about the wives and family being more involved with this. This definitely would make a big difference.

What surprises me most so far is how reluctant the TV members are themselves about the OP.

I also think naturalization what I mentioned and citizenship is misunderstood.

Citizenship is allowed nit noi and naturalization is no no.

[YeahSiam]

That's another way of looking at it, but again not a very broad view, because not all of us are like that.

This was not the original idea of the OP, I tried to see if some falang for falang idea would be possible, but I guess we falang in Thailand are more divided than the Thai.

Yeah I appreciate that Rimbuman and i apologize for usign your thread to make the point but I just get a bit hacked off when people use stupid generalizations to cast aspersions on an entire group of people.

I know not all of us are getting smashed in Thai bars etc but enough of us ARE to make a dent in the finances of several state-run hospitals in this country.

Not all immigrants in the UK are abusing the welfare system but the comments of some of the posters on this forum suggests they think that is actually the case while failing to lay any of the blame at the feet of the indigenous population. That's typical scapegoating M.O.

Your talking crappppppppppppppp........................

High quality post as usual.

[transam]

That's another way of looking at it, but again not a very broad view, because not all of us are like that.

This was not the original idea of the OP, I tried to see if some falang for falang idea would be possible, but I guess we falang in Thailand are more divided than the Thai.

Yeah I appreciate that Rimbuman and i apologize for usign your thread to make the point but I just get a bit hacked off when people use stupid generalizations to cast aspersions on an entire group of people.

I know not all of us are getting smashed in Thai bars etc but enough of us ARE to make a dent in the finances of several state-run hospitals in this country.

Not all immigrants in the UK are abusing the welfare system but the comments of some of the posters on this forum suggests they think that is actually the case while failing to lay any of the blame at the feet of the indigenous population. That's typical scapegoating M.O.

Your talking crappppppppppppppp........................

High quality post as usual.

I do try........

[pigeonjake]

yes trans,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, at times very trying,,,,,,,,lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,

just like me,,,,,lol

have a good one mate

[samran]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

Edited April 20, 2014 by samran

[laislica]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

Spot on!

I'm a Brit married to a Thai but I live in Spain.

We jumped through a mountain of hoops both in Thailand and Spain.

In Spain it took 5 months to get her registered as a resident there, good for 5years.

She also has full free national health cover as my wife.

Can work if she want's to.

Can own property.

Can travel anywhere in the Schengan countries - NOT the UK and was refused a visa to accompany me on a holiday to meet my family and friends.

No 90 day reports

No re-entry permits - can come and go as she likes, no questions.

In 5 years she will need to renew her ID card - like everyone else has to but it will be a routine matter.

Never mind Thai citizenship, let us also jump the hoops and then grant us a Foreigners resident's permit, good for 5 or more years. Allow such Foreign residents to do any work without a WP. Allow national health cover (if the Thai qualified for it - same as the UK requirement).

I think this would give most of us what we want, no 90 day reports, visa extensions and re-entry permits and no work permits or job restrictions.

Like the OP, I wondered why Thai wives don't band together and demand this!

Clearly, it would be the Farang husbands that would need to do all the organisation, but the wives are the only ones qualified to campaign - they are THAI, it's their country, their problem.

i agree with some of this,

im not botherd about owning property,,, i trust my wife,,

the 5 year visa would be good, not having to report ect,,,but i still think you should have to show money in the bank,,

i dont think you should get free health care,, you havnt paid into the country,,,and i mean that for the uk too,,lol,

i also dont think you should be able to work in a job that a thai cant do as now,,, apart from, if you and your wife had a farm,,, now your going to say im selfish, because we have a farm,,

what i mean is if you own the bussines then yes you can work it,, but not to just go and get a job to top up your pention,,

again, my views arnt going to please everyone,

but there is no need to be rude to one another just because we have different views on this,,

it would be a sad world if we all thought the same,,

jake

I also trust my wife but having joint ownership prevents that nasty 180 days after her untimely death that you are forced to sell.

The health cover is curtesy of the UK - I paid in and my wife is also covered (form S1), if I had decided to marry a local girl who had never worked in her life - she would also be covered.

In order to give you a fighting chance to earn good money to keep your family, why should you be hamstrung?

Sorry to hijack the thread but I feel that the FR ID is the thing to go for.

ps, great debate and good natured in the main!

[Rimbuman]

i dont think we are divided,,as you put it,

i just think some of us are happy with the way things are,

my old grandad used to say why try and mend something that isnt broke,,

can i ask you a question,?

if this could work, the way you want it,

how would the goverment vet people who are coming in, some would just want to marry just to get passport as they do in other countries, and that caurses big trouble,

who could say you could have a pasport but i couldnt, what do you think would be the criteria,?

have so much in the bank,,, same as now,

have a skill,, ive worked in thailand,,with my skill,

it would take a lot of keeping up with,,

jake

ps,,i like a good debate on a sunday,,,lol

Al lot of these problems that come with such policies can be tackled with proper management.

It's more about rights, equal treatment and fairness. That why I think Falang and their Thai wives living here in Thailand should put their heads together, go forward and come up for ourselves.

Having my BBQ hot now, I'm off.

[pigeonjake]

i dont think we are divided,,as you put it,

i just think some of us are happy with the way things are,

my old grandad used to say why try and mend something that isnt broke,,

can i ask you a question,?

if this could work, the way you want it,

how would the goverment vet people who are coming in, some would just want to marry just to get passport as they do in other countries, and that caurses big trouble,

who could say you could have a pasport but i couldnt, what do you think would be the criteria,?

have so much in the bank,,, same as now,

have a skill,, ive worked in thailand,,with my skill,

it would take a lot of keeping up with,,

jake

ps,,i like a good debate on a sunday,,,lol

Al lot of these problems that come with such policies can be tackled with proper management.

It's more about rights, equal treatment and fairness. That why I think Falang and their Thai wives living here in Thailand should put their heads together, go forward and come up for ourselves.

Having my BBQ hot now, I'm off.

enjoy

jake

[transam]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

[samran]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

Edited April 20, 2014 by samran

[tingtong]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

If Bob the binman marries Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar, supports her as a husband does, want to settle down to have a child...

then yes, why not get that right?!

There should be a middle ground, screening out the abusers of the system at least some extent....

Say 5 yrs marriage?

2 yrs marriage with a child?

Age under 50?

You name it.

It is also not normal that being married to a Thai, and the same time due job market restrictions for foreigners locked out from legal employment option if you happen to work in almost any field, not able to own even half your house what was bought with 100% of your money, and be unsure when a visa or extension or whatever will be granted or refused.

As for paying tax or not, exactly how many Thai (%age will do) you think is paying any tax here? Again, not many legal jobs around apart from limited few fields, and even volunteering is restricted by work permits.

And as a final thoughts, while many country offers social benefits, a foreigner surely wont want to be moving here for that, or seeking citizenship for the 500thb per month old age pension, the uneployment benefits, or the great free healthcare.

[stickylies]

If "Thailand" is reading this topic I'm sure it won't change its policy any soon. A policy which btw is not just applicable to farang but also to several million of Chinese who'd love to come here (their backyard), buy land, start a business, etc. Ask Burma or Laos............................