What does it take to make a person react to aggressive and rude behaviour

[Cricketnut]

Often a simple Thank you spoken in Thai let's the people know that you are aware of what they are saying about you, I understand, but why do you think this about me? Works for me every time. They lose face become oh so apologetic and the next time you visit the store they will be ever so polite. At tescos, when in Rome do as romans, when someone pushes ahead of you either take back your place and say thank you very much in Thai or just a moment etc and this works as well. But if you want to save face in the tesco situation, simply say its OK I can wait and smile. If you need the phrase's pm me and will send them to you. Tally ho and giddy up cowboy, just chill and enjoy the A/C remembering that they don't really have a queuing idea so to speak. Also adjust your body language and close in on the person in front of you...

[metaben]

My limit used to be taxi driver behaviour, but my Mai Pen Lai attitude has much progressed in the last few years, and, as if by magic, I rarelly have any issues with anyone, on the contrary, not even taxis.

As for driving my bike in Bangkok I am now fully Thai

[Runamile]

@Woodworx

Little Emperors, indeed. The one-child policy has led to some hideously spoilt children. Economic development has meant Little Emperors with money! Oh, Lord. Spending a night in a Chinese hotel has become purgatory. Open doors, shouting across between rooms, multiple meetings in the corridor. Smoking - any and everywhere. Best ever, though, was a lady whose early-morning throat-loosening exercises were opera-singing. I can't tell you the number of arguments I've had, though they were a bit one-sided on many occasions in that the other party couldn't understand what was wrong in their behaviour. Nonetheless, they complied, I could sleep or whatever; and I'm sure I don't care if, in their eyes I was eccentric and lost face. I do remember a guy brushing me aside, in reception, finding himself, shortly, in a different location. With him there seemed to be a slight element of playing Alpha male for the benefit of his family. Well that wasn't going to really wash anymore, but it was easier to put the foreigner in the box labelled "weirdo" than worrying about losing face - to a foreigner! Unthinkable!

The horrors of "new money" behaviour aren't , though, limited to Chinese people. I've had many a disturbed night in a Bangkok hotel thanks to similar behaviour as above from a whole variety of peoples from East of the Bosphorus. In fact, the one thing in common was that they could afford to stay in the hotel. I think that is the whole point. New money doesn't travel well.

Equally, though, new money isn't that nice a thing to come upon in its country of origin. Many countries suffer this blight. Rudeness, assuredly, is not a Thai monopoly, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be challenged. Words of caution are, though, required - don't become the colonialist Exterminator and don't take risks. Thais are known for their hunting packs in a way that, for instance, Chinese aren't. Thais also come back. Funny thing in all this is that Thais are treating us on more of a level, meaning more as each other. In China, you may "push it" more because, essentially, you're below consideration in the eyes of many.

[Thaiready]

In Thai language, Tell them that you are 'P', you are a senior citizen, Ask them if they would talk to a Thai man of similar age in that fashion. Keep asking until you get an answer. Tell them that they are disrespecting you and its just not good enough, who do they think they are ! I do this quite a bit but I am also a bit aggressive with it too. Not physically but intimidating all the same. I hate it when they think they can say anything to me because I am a foreigner. I let them know they can't.

I do the same sometimes...I'm a big boy 6'1" 235 lbs.....I usually don't have to say a word....just give that look thats universal all over the World.

[nottocus]

It's very immature of me…but I enjoyed it at the time.

Was down at Tops Rama 3. Made up a bag of mixed salad and needed to get it weighed. Nobody was at the scales but eventually someone came to weigh it. As I gave the bag of salad to her, 2 Korean chicks came along and stuck their bag of salad on the scales. I took theirs off, got mine weighed, gave 'em a dirty look and moved on.

As I was walking out to get a taxi later on, I saw these two chicks angling towards a taxi and just as they went to open the door I slipped in front, got in and sped off. Even gave them a wave as I left. Priceless look on their faces.

As I say it was a bit immature….but very satisfying.

[Datebayo]

''IMO there are times to do and times not to do but accepting boorish , bullying and aggressive behavior is not either the honorable, sensible or proper thing to do.''

This I would never accept in my own home country, no one would dare to behave that way to me anyway. But in Thailand, now that is a whole different ball game. Honor,sense and principals? never heard of em here. Don't expect most of Thais heard of em either.

[Maroon Watcher]

Take a holiday in China - one of the smaller cities or one with new Chinese immigrants/labourers.

YOU WILL PASS OUT WITH GRIEF!

Yes in Asia it's ok to move into an empty space, or decide that they have precedence,

many don't have the experience of International travellers -

ooops is that you too?

30% poverty and low education the last thing they think about is

standing in-line or queuing like a gentleman pirate. Sir!

[kovaltech]

"What does it take to make a person react to aggressive and rude behaviour" ... well, for me, it takes "aggressive and rude behaviour" ... something which, for me, is missing from your OP.

Sounds like a bit of argy bargy to me.

Oh ... you can speak Thai fluently? ... "Hearing Thai speak disrespectfully about me" .. so that would take some considerable time in the country ... and you are just now (or still) complaining ...

'Thai population that it is OK to disrespect a Farang in these ways' ... sounds a bit of good ole' "White supremacist" to me.

May I ask, how long have you lived here?

Are you from the UK? (queuing mentality)

That will just about do it for my questions.

Cheers

I am not that long in Thailand yet, ( since 2005 ) but i learned a lot...

Its always a 50/50 situation ; 50 % behaving good and polite , 50% disrespectful and ignorant..

This works both ways, towards the farang and to the Thai...

Since most of the farang do have a higher ranking status trough there age, behaviour and Thai don't want to loose face, there is a little trick i use...

I live in Isaan, north east.. i learned quite a few isaan words Laos words...

If someone cuts in line with me , i protest fairly loud with the words "het iyang" ( laos/isaan for "what are you doing" ) 99% of the rudeness disapears with their head bowed, pointing with your thumb towards the back of the que does the rest.

I always get a smile from the others in the same que, since i cleared the situation with the "bad behaving person"

The good behaving people are also very shy towards bad behaving people... they always will be giving in, but they will reward you with their most honest smile if you speak out towards the misbehaviour...

But, never shout, never loose control of being calm, just stay firm and correct... Thai people will love you for that...

You'll will see that the "bad persons" are most of the time individuals with a lack of social education, basically just children...

Thai are very proud, they should be because they deserve it, as we deserve the respect we earned by doing and behaving good.

Thai hate disrespectfull behaviour, be it a Thai person or a westerner. But a Thai person will not show what he's thinking, he will just smile...

To the OP, stay calm, try the trick if you are able to do it but don't humiliate the other one or yourself.

Always give them a change to safe their face...

Remember, its our perception of their culture...

You are in Thailand now...

[Wordworx]

@Woodworx

Little Emperors, indeed. ...

**************************

It's *Wordworx* actually, but I should change it.

On the China thing, for you and at least one other commenting on such, concurrent string: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/720292-passenger-brawl-heralds-end-of-metal-age-for-thai-airways/?utm_source=newsletter-20140421-1449&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

[Runamile]

@Maroon Watcher

Clearly we've had different experiences in China. For me, it's the moneyed that are the issue, not those in poverty, who can, be so delightful.

Anyway, I could refine that a lot, according to various demographics, but best shut up, since our focus is Thailand.

I flit between the two.

[Runamile]

@ Wordworx

Apologies.

We better not let on to Thai Airways that you can cause similar light injuries with plastic cutlery. I used to work with young offenders. One attacked a tormentor with a plastic knife stolen from the canteen at a young offender institution. He didn't exactly cause life-threatening injuries, but he drew blood much in the same way as happened on the Thai flight.

It was most unprofessional of me when I laughed in response to "they're hard plastic, you know". Not least, he was right! Poor Atilla - Turks also have a strong sense of face!

[timbus8]

This morning a Thai lady invited me to move ahead of her in the supermarket queue " cos you only have little bit "

This is what I do in Mexico because I did it in the U.S. The Mexican people have never offered to do this for me or anyone else that I have seen. It is a concept completely foreign to them.

[thailiketoo]

This morning a Thai lady invited me to move ahead of her in the supermarket queue " cos you only have little bit "

This is what I do in Mexico because I did it in the U.S. The Mexican people have never offered to do this for me or anyone else that I have seen. It is a concept completely foreign to them.

Thai people at 7/11 often move their stuff to one side so I can put mine on the counter too. People rarely cut ahead of me. Maybe 2 times in ten years.

[kandi]

Even though I'm similarly sensitive to rudeness of this kind, I must be honest: Over the 2 years I've been living here, it happened only maybe 5 times or something. When it happened, I cleared my throat loudly so they could hear it and every single time they turned around, said sorry and moved back. One or two times I looked at the cashier and she politely told the one in front me that I was there before her. Maybe I'm just lucky.

[stickylies]

This morning a Thai lady invited me to move ahead of her in the supermarket queue " cos you only have little bit "

This is what I do in Mexico because I did it in the U.S. The Mexican people have never offered to do this for me or anyone else that I have seen. It is a concept completely foreign to them.

you misunderstood her bro, she said "cos you only have little one"

[kevvy]

You could be talking of any country in the world.. Everything you mention happens in Australia , I am an Aussie and seen it there.

Kevvy

[sirchai]

And before the Thai apologists take over this thread and get it closed, my question is genuine.

On the roads I am undertaken when the gap in front of me is barely enough for braking safely.

I am in KFC and waiting my turn, guaranteed to be someone trying to push in front of me.

In line at TESCOs the small ones, same thing again, people try to beat me to the till.

deliberately Being given the wrong amount of change in a shop or store.

Hearing Thai speak disrespectfully about me when I am in a situation where they dont know that I may be able to understand them

If I dont react in some manner, could it be construed that I am actually guilty of teaching the general Thai population that it is OK to disrespect a Farang in these ways and many more that I could have included.

Note to TV Amateur Behavioral Psychologist

Please before you post on this thread, if you wish to "advise" me on behavioral or tactics to avoid confrontation do not bother because your pearl of wisdom would be wasted.

IMO there are times to do and times not to do but accepting boorish , bullying and aggressive behavior is not either the honorable, sensible or proper thing to do.

Sometimes the consequences of a reaction are what are needed to further the education of this occasionally backward Country.

You seem to be a lost sheep. Read the Watchtower and your life will continue after this shitty one. Amen.

Edited April 21, 2014 by sirchai

[Shaunduhpostman]

Maybe the solutions I have developed for these common problems you mention are not the kind of solutions that would suit your style, but I often do feel like you do (the OP) that just being a doormat isn't the solution or much of an option. It just leads to pent up anger, resentment and other problems down the road. I think it's also very negative and worse for Thailand to just let people get the idea they can be out of hand and bully others with impunity. But responding too aggressively isn't the solution either.

I try to treat the situations you mention as the unique situations that they are. Each one has different causes and combinations of causes and these days I try to keep in mind that the best thing is to try to maintain keen awareness at all times as much as possible. For me, spacing out is usually my undoing. Many Thais while not being aggressive are sort of keen opportunists, so they notice my lapses and think they are entitled to take my place in line, short change me, talk trash about me, etc. But keeping in mind it's best to pay keen attention to situations has helped me feel I have more control over these situations. Being more keenly aware allows me to respond as appropriately as possible, instead of reacting without really knowing what is going on. Did the person really cut in the queue? Maybe they actually were there before and I didn't see them? If you are paying close attention you are going to be more clear headed and be more apt tp say and do the right thing as well.

Also, paying close attention to things in public, I've noticed that it cuts down on the problem with cashiers trying to see if they can get away with short changing me. I hone in on the transaction with my gaze and don't look out the window or get distracted, they don't try it with me any more.

Same for queue jumping, most Thai queue jumpers are not like the Chinese with this entitled attitude strolling up to the front of the queue, barging and pushing. I've seen the Chinese amazingly do it on holiday here as well. In fact there was a really long line at the 7-11 one Saturday night in Ratchada and these Chinese guys strolled up like they owned the whole street and tried to cut in ahead of the whole queue and a Thai lady called them out and told them to get to the end of the line.

With Thai queue jumpers I've noticed that It's usually that they see gaps in the line which farang like to leave and when you are looking the other way they will scoot in. If you are paying attention you are more often in a better position to move in before they do and block them from cutting in front of you. When that fails, I often just look for the slightest gap opening to then step in front of them. My Thai wife has called me on just stepping in front of queue jumpers saying people will get upset and you could potentially have something nasty to deal with. It is better she thinks to say, "Kor tort kap, pom yoo tee nee gone, kap." Then if they ignore you, just cut in front of them or perhaps as a consaolation try to embarass them for their rudeness by appealing to the cashier, "Koon kap! Nong jah, Kon nee taht queue, kap. Pom yoo gone kap."

As for people talking about you to your face, really they are fair game, if you can play the dozens and you can speak Thai well you can put them down twice as hard and get a laugh out of it even. "Well, look at you, where you get that 60 baht blouse, at Koko the Klown tours the gorilla zoos of Thailand, Chiang Mai show? Yeah I was there too! Hi five! Yeah! And I know that ain't your nose either, Look at your nose! What' wrong with that thing? I think you better get yourself back to that discount nose clinic get back to Giffarine Softy Nose Home Nose Sales and get you a refund or get that sucker fixed! AGAIN! You best believe you bettah before you be talkin about my butt, sistah!! Or I'm gonna have to start talking about hair and make up." Or if that is over kill and you think that would get you shot as you walk away chuckling, then respond just say something innocuous to show that what they said about you was understood, probably devastate them even more and more slowly over a longer period of time.

Driving, I don't do it. I ask farang ex-pats if they'd consider giving it up here. I don't think its worth the peptic ulcer myself. I live way out in the sticks as well, but I'd rather take a songthaew and have the driver deal with whatever is going to happen on the road.

[stickylies]

I've written this before and will repeat it once more: I've been around long enough to see more POSITIVE discrimimation towards me than the opposite. But then again, i'm a nice, charming guy with people skills who keeps a low profile and who does not have a dosen of parasites living on his back.

The other day i was in this not so kosher place and police did a razzia. All thai had to show their ID, some were searched. All workers (non-Thai lady companion) had to show their passport and WP. The only farang in town (the sticky one) was wai'd at and left alone (lucky me as i had NOTHING on me, except for some thb, an mp3 player, 4 paracetamols and 2 fisherman friends).

Today i bought some stuff in small store. 61 THB. 60 THB ok. Then a thai friend called me to help her send 1 sms in English (5 english words that is, took me 3 seconds) and she gave me a 1 hour massage for free in return.

Sure i've encountered <deleted> in thailand taking the p*ss with me or talking impolite or being rude. So what? <deleted> are everywhere. Look at this very forum.

Life is great!

edit: the <deleted> words above start with A and end with SSHOLES.

Edited April 21, 2014 by stickylies

[sirchai]

Maybe the solutions I have developed for these common problems you mention are not the kind of solutions that would suit your style, but I often do feel like you do (the OP) that just being a doormat isn't the solution or much of an option. It just leads to pent up anger, resentment and other problems down the road. I think it's also very negative and worse for Thailand to just let people get the idea they can be out of hand and bully others with impunity. But responding too aggressively isn't the solution either.

I try to treat the situations you mention as the unique situations that they are. Each one has different causes and combinations of causes and these days I try to keep in mind that the best thing is to try to maintain keen awareness at all times as much as possible. For me, spacing out is usually my undoing. Many Thais while not being aggressive are sort of keen opportunists, so they notice my lapses and think they are entitled to take my place in line, short change me, talk trash about me, etc. But keeping in mind it's best to pay keen attention to situations has helped me feel I have more control over these situations. Being more keenly aware allows me to respond as appropriately as possible, instead of reacting without really knowing what is going on. Did the person really cut in the queue? Maybe they actually were there before and I didn't see them? If you are paying close attention you are going to be more clear headed and be more apt tp say and do the right thing as well.

Also, paying close attention to things in public, I've noticed that it cuts down on the problem with cashiers trying to see if they can get away with short changing me. I hone in on the transaction with my gaze and don't look out the window or get distracted, they don't try it with me any more.

Same for queue jumping, most Thai queue jumpers are not like the Chinese with this entitled attitude strolling up to the front of the queue, barging and pushing. I've seen the Chinese amazingly do it on holiday here as well. In fact there was a really long line at the 7-11 one Saturday night in Ratchada and these Chinese guys strolled up like they owned the whole street and tried to cut in ahead of the whole queue and a Thai lady called them out and told them to get to the end of the line.

With Thai queue jumpers I've noticed that It's usually that they see gaps in the line which farang like to leave and when you are looking the other way they will scoot in. If you are paying attention you are more often in a better position to move in before they do and block them from cutting in front of you. When that fails, I often just look for the slightest gap opening to then step in front of them. My Thai wife has called me on just stepping in front of queue jumpers saying people will get upset and you could potentially have something nasty to deal with. It is better she thinks to say, "Kor tort kap, pom yoo tee nee gone, kap." Then if they ignore you, just cut in front of them or perhaps as a consaolation try to embarass them for their rudeness by appealing to the cashier, "Koon kap! Nong jah, Kon nee taht queue, kap. Pom yoo gone kap."

As for people talking about you to your face, really they are fair game, if you can play the dozens and you can speak Thai well you can put them down twice as hard and get a laugh out of it even. "Well, look at you, where you get that 60 baht blouse, at Koko the Klown tours the gorilla zoos of Thailand, Chiang Mai show? Yeah I was there too! Hi five! Yeah! And I know that ain't your nose either, Look at your nose! What' wrong with that thing? I think you better get yourself back to that discount nose clinic get back to Giffarine Softy Nose Home Nose Sales and get you a refund or get that sucker fixed! AGAIN! You best believe you bettah before you be talkin about my butt, sistah!! Or I'm gonna have to start talking about hair and make up." Or if that is over kill and you think that would get you shot as you walk away chuckling, then respond just say something innocuous to show that what they said about you was understood, probably devastate them even more and more slowly over a longer period of time.

Driving, I don't do it. I ask farang ex-pats if they'd consider giving it up here. I don't think its worth the peptic ulcer myself. I live way out in the sticks as well, but I'd rather take a songthaew and have the driver deal with whatever is going to happen on the road.

Driving, I don't do it. I ask farang ex-pats if they'd consider giving it up here. I don't think its worth the peptic ulcer myself. I live way out in the sticks as well, but I'd rather take a songthaew and have the driver deal with whatever is going to happen on the road.

How many Songtaews are out in the sticks? Seems you're doing a lot of bird watching........

Let's see. Had two big bike crashes. Then a high on YaBa freak doing a red light, while speeding, hit me sideways in my truck and almost killed me Serious injures, but still alive.

Then an airborne motorcycle heading toward my windshield after the car got fixed up for over a year.Almost broke my wife's and my neck. Bamm.

Some guys hit my truck with a motorbike and drove away like the devil was after them.

If you wanna learn how to drive, please page me. First hour for free, if you survive.

Transam seems to be an experienced driver as well, don't be shy.Page him. Life's too short to walk around in circles out in the sticks.-

[Scarpolo]

I've written this before and will repeat it once more: I've been around long enough to see more POSITIVE discrimimation towards me than the opposite. But then again, i'm a nice, charming guy with people skills who keeps a low profile and who does not have a dosen of parasites living on his back.

The other day i was in this not so kosher place and police did a razzia. All thai had to show their ID, some were searched. All workers (non-Thai lady companion) had to show their passport and WP. The only farang in town (the sticky one) was wai'd at and left alone (lucky me as i had NOTHING on me, except for some thb, an mp3 player, 4 paracetamols and 2 fisherman friends).

Today i bought some stuff in small store. 61 THB. 60 THB ok. Then a thai friend called me to help her send 1 sms in English (5 english words that is, took me 3 seconds) and she gave me a 1 hour massage for free in return.

Sure i've encountered <deleted> in thailand taking the p*ss with me or talking impolite or being rude. So what? <deleted> are everywhere. Look at this very forum.

Life is great!

I too have felt the same,

people going out of their way to be nice,

many, wanting to try out the little english they knew, then laughing at both our errors, all in good sport.

especially the girls, working in restaurants, hotels, always a smile and a helping offer,

I found the people to be very nice to me,

it was a departure from the aggressiveness experienced in the likes of Fort Lauderdale and Miami, and elsewhere where people want to show how tough they look, straight out of the gym, hoping their muscles grew a centimeter one stop away from their next steroid injection, oh wait, thats most of the cops here

[tingtongteesood]

Ii don't stand for any such behaviour and have learnt some choice Thai phrases to tell people off for such behaviour. I don't care what they think of me, if their parents didn't teach them right from wrong then I will be their teacher. I also don't care if they lose face, sometimes they deserve to. I also frequently tell people to stop staring at me and when they are saying 'falang falang mee falang' I have specifically learnt how to say in Thai 'SO WHAT ?!' - always gets a giggle. Learn the right things to say and treat it with some humour. Every time I tell people in 7 11 not to push in I get smiles from everyone else there who gets it. Yes I know some &lt;deleted&gt; might pull a gun for his loss of face some day but 7 years and hasn't happened yet....Right is right, wrong is wrong.

[Showbags]

In my local starbucks recently....the girls know me...I lined up behind one or 2 others, cannot recall now exactly....as I was not standing so close to the one in front, a guy came in and was kind of in front of me somewhat...I still had room to shuffle in when the time was required to move forward....but, I hear the girls behind the counter say to the girl doing the serving...'make sure you serve khun Me next'........everyone looked around and thought I must be something special or sumthin.

But I should add...SB puts the dollars in to train their staff properly.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Showbags

[thailiketoo]

Ii don't stand for any such behaviour and have learnt some choice Thai phrases to tell people off for such behaviour. I don't care what they think of me, if their parents didn't teach them right from wrong then I will be their teacher. I also don't care if they lose face, sometimes they deserve to. I also frequently tell people to stop staring at me and when they are saying 'falang falang mee falang' I have specifically learnt how to say in Thai 'SO WHAT ?!' - always gets a giggle. Learn the right things to say and treat it with some humour. Every time I tell people in 7 11 not to push in I get smiles from everyone else there who gets it. Yes I know some <deleted> might pull a gun for his loss of face some day but 7 years and hasn't happened yet....Right is right, wrong is wrong.

Apt nickname.

[stickylies]

occasionally when they start "farang farang" about me i tell them i'm bpama not farang. straight pokerface: mae bpama. poh farang. adding CHING CHING (really!).... and then u see them looking at eachother.... they don't get it. makes my day.

[Dannyboy6]

This morning a Thai lady invited me to move ahead of her in the supermarket queue " cos you only have little bit "

Wow, Nice. I was at Dairy Q yesterday same thing...

[Shaunduhpostman]

Driving, I don't do it. I ask farang ex-pats if they'd consider giving it up here. I don't think its worth the peptic ulcer myself. I live way out in the sticks as well, but I'd rather take a songthaew and have the driver deal with whatever is going to happen on the road.

How many Songtaews are out in the sticks? Seems you're doing a lot of bird watching........

Maybe its only the half a stick sticks…average wait only 10-15 minutes…but once in a great while there is the 45 minute wait. I'll take waiting over the stress of having to fuss. No traffic tickets, no repair bills, registration hassles and no headaches down at the garage either.

[Scarpolo]

Driving, I don't do it. I ask farang ex-pats if they'd consider giving it up here. I don't think its worth the peptic ulcer myself. I live way out in the sticks as well, but I'd rather take a songthaew and have the driver deal with whatever is going to happen on the road.

How many Songtaews are out in the sticks? Seems you're doing a lot of bird watching........

Maybe its only the half a stick sticks…average wait only 10-15 minutes…but once in a great while there is the 45 minute wait. I'll take waiting over the stress of having to fuss. No traffic tickets, no repair bills, registration hassles and no headaches down at the garage either.

I went a few times with my friend in his small truck, and watching the stress of his driving, and the many near misses and the anger it was causing him convinced me never to drive there,

being a passenger with a native girl driving a small but responsive car, was a breeze to watch, as she glided with the flow,

I am sure I can do it, but the one time you dont see the motorbike, coming from either direction, and it can be someones life

I dont need to spend the rest of my life in a thai prison because some dic.k.head with two small children and his mother, on a motorbike decided it was time to die

[HooHaa]

im in manila right now, it makes bangkok look like heaven

[Shaunduhpostman]

Jakarta ditto Manila, Bangkok looks well organized by comparison and all the streets are at least paved.