Abhisit says election is not answer, warns of coup

[Publicus]

Abhisit says election is not answer, warns of coup.

Mr. Tom says: Abhisit is not the answer, warns of the so called "Democrats".

Do you think the democrats are

a) a good joke

a bad joke

c) no joke at all - they are a danger for democracy

That is easy to answer.

N O T A!!

You should heed your own unsolicited advice offered to others. Heal thyself.

[Ricardo]

Oh the loser murderer on the waiting list in The Hague , argues that election will not be an answer , because he will lose as always.

The British man, with an illegal Thai citizenship, who lied to the whole country before taking an illegal post as PM, never elected, and before ordering the massacre of dozens of people who wanted democracy to be restored.

Abhisit warning of a coup or hoping for a coup ?

So he can take his illegal post again and start stealing and plundering the country together with his friends....After the 2006 coup, just look at what happened to Thailand in Transparency International ranking:one of the worst plunge in Thai history.And the same it happened in Reporters Without borders press freedom ranking and in the Freedomhouse political and human rights rankings.

Abhisit will always be a total loser and a very hated people inside and outside Thailand.

"On the waiting list in the Hague"

Do you have any link or proof for this assertion, or is it merely based on RA's letter to the ICJ, a couple of years ago ?

"with an illegal Thai citizenship"

What's illegal, about former-PM's Thai citizenship, do you have a link to a reputable source, rather than just the usual Red conspiracy-theories & propaganda ?

[fcbkk]

Oh the loser murderer on the waiting list in The Hague , argues that election will not be an answer , because he will lose as always.

The British man, with an illegal Thai citizenship, who lied to the whole country before taking an illegal post as PM, never elected, and before ordering the massacre of dozens of people who wanted democracy to be restored.

Abhisit warning of a coup or hoping for a coup ?

So he can take his illegal post again and start stealing and plundering the country together with his friends....After the 2006 coup, just look at what happened to Thailand in Transparency International ranking:one of the worst plunge in Thai history.And the same it happened in Reporters Without borders press freedom ranking and in the Freedomhouse political and human rights rankings.

Abhisit will always be a total loser and a very hated people inside and outside Thailand.

The tone of your post is quite disgusting, if you don't mind my saying so. But i guess when you look at it sober you will know this yourself?

It is obvious that Thailand has not developed as well as it should and could have with and since the 2006 coup, but let's do look at the Freedom of Press Index since you quote it.

Please see attached graph. FreePressIndex_Thailand.jpg

You explain the deteriorating freedom as a result of "Abhisit and his friends", but you left out the fact that Press Freedom deteriorated most drastically under Mr. T's tenure, well before the 2006 coup. Since then, IMHO, neither party has made genuine efforts to improve the situation. i guess it is not quite so easy and quick to return liberties, once they had been removed successfully.

But back to what you posted - is it worth checking if you quoted other rankings in a similarly selective and distorting manner?

" Human Rights Watch called Abhisit "the most prolific censor in recent Thai history" and Freedom House downgraded Thailand's rating of media freedom to "not free."

You seem to be engaging in the exact same distorted spin as max72 did previously.

Freedom House downgraded Thailand's ranking from "partly free" to "not free" in 2007, and upgraded it in 2008 to "partly free", where it has been since.

As you now repeated max27's claim i would ask you to explain how this ranking supports the narrative of "it's all Abhisit's fault"?

If you do take these statistics and "selective snippets of info" at face value, then if anything you should credit Abhisit with improving the rating under his tenure.

Personally I would not do this, as i think Abhisit's achievements in this regard are small. Perhaps - if I wanted to defend his record - then I could say that Abhisit probably genuinely wanted improvements, but failed to achieve them on many counts, perhaps because it will not have been easy to navigate a thin line between the hard liners on either side of the spectrum, and it is easier to erode liberties than to build them up again.

In my view both sides have been using the lack of liberties and protection mechanisms of free speech to their advantage, whenever they wanted critical voices silenced. Crucial however in this is, that the greatest "achievement" in eroding these liberties and protective mechanisms happened under Mr. T's tenure (did you look at the Freedom of Press Index that i posted earlier?), and neither side has improved much since. So again, if you do take these statistics at face value (as you quote them) then it would be more logical to conclude the statistics suppoprt a view that Thaksin was a root cause for declining freedom and liberties, whereas Abhisit did not achieve u-turn improvements on these. Do you see any difference in that?

Human Rights Watch did indeed call the government [under Abhisit, not Abhisit himself] "the most prolific censor..". But what is your point on this? Does this now support the narrative of "it's all Abhisit's fault" despite other information as cited above with Freedom of Press Index and Freedom House rankings?

How would they - and you - call the current government's record on censorship aspects? If Abhisit was the worst then all others must be better right? So why are the statistics not showing that others have better records?

How about other quotes from the HRW for other politicians? For example the following quote from a letter to Thaksin in 2004: "during your tenure, Thailand has witnessed a growing disregard for the rule of law and human rights. Your government’s inadequate responses to previous human rights abuses have created an environment in which security forces trample the rule of law and violate human rights without fear of accountability."

So what does one such quote or snippet of information mean? Does one snippet mean Abhisit is to blame for "all" the lack of Freedom, and the other snippet then means Thaksin is to blame for "all" violence and human rights violations?

My point is, I was not defending Abhisit's achievements or lack thereof, but to reject max27's rude, distorted and nonsensical attack using snippets of information selected and twisted to support a disgusting narrative.

Your comments seem to do the same with fewer words, but I may be mistaken. So, please feel free to clarify and respond if you wish - but if you do, then please do not just spit out some selected "snippets" that suit your agenda.

[fcbkk]

"At this moment many think ... a smooth, problem-free election is an adequate solution," Abhisit Vejjajiva said at a press conference today. "But that is not the truth."

Excellent trolling. Absolutely no statements to support such a claim. Classic trolling.

"I want all sides to look at the events of 2006. The date of the election was already set, political parties already began vote canvassing, but it ended in a military coup,"

Abhisit really knows how to push PTP and UDD's buttons. He's telling the PTP (in its previous incarnation TRT) it was responsible for the 2006 coup and it there is another coup, the PTP and UDD's supporters clashing with Suthep and his groups will be the reason. He's also threatening negative consequences for PTP if they don't cooperate during the EC meeting. Yes, Abhisit is a world-class troll. I think it is good when K. Abhisit gives the PTP and UDD back a taste of what they are dishing out every day. Look at this forum: pro-government trolls outnumber anti-government troll 10 to 1. (Everyone can troll)

"I hope the discussion on 22 April will not see fights between different parties. The talk should be a discussion about the needs of every side, how to help the country move forward, without violence and coups."

Abhisit is good. He's implying that the only trouble-makers expected at the EC meeting will be the PTP government and then, after subtly accusing them of violence, threatens them with a coup if they don't appreciate. "the needs of every side". Whatever side you're on, you have to admit that Abhisit is one smart cookie.

"....threatens them with a coup if they don't appreciate "the needs of every side". Whatever side you're on, you have to admit that Abhisit is one smart cookie."

Where do you see a "threat with a coup"?

IMHO he certainly should be smart enough to know that a coup is not beneficial for Thailand.

It would not solve any of the root causes, only provide a last means of a disposed Clan trying to cling to power by claimimg undemocratic and unfair treatment to win sympathy, and then try stage a comeback in disguise later on. again.

Where do you see a "threat with a coup"?

without violence and coups."

Why would Abhisit even bring up the word 'coup' (as if it were a real possibility) if not to piss off the PTP?

Think our reading of the intent is just different. I just cannot see a threat in his words - i read it as a "pragmatic/realistic" reminder that violence and further escalation can lead to a situation where a hard-liner minority may try to abuse their power, or may feel they have to step in. I do not see this in Thailand's nor Abhisit's interests at all.

Is that pushing their button? Yeah of course it will, after all, it is them who threaten with violence if their own means of abusing power is restricted.

[rametindallas]

"At this moment many think ... a smooth, problem-free election is an adequate solution," Abhisit Vejjajiva said at a press conference today. "But that is not the truth."

Excellent trolling. Absolutely no statements to support such a claim. Classic trolling.

"I want all sides to look at the events of 2006. The date of the election was already set, political parties already began vote canvassing, but it ended in a military coup,"

Abhisit really knows how to push PTP and UDD's buttons. He's telling the PTP (in its previous incarnation TRT) it was responsible for the 2006 coup and it there is another coup, the PTP and UDD's supporters clashing with Suthep and his groups will be the reason. He's also threatening negative consequences for PTP if they don't cooperate during the EC meeting. Yes, Abhisit is a world-class troll. I think it is good when K. Abhisit gives the PTP and UDD back a taste of what they are dishing out every day. Look at this forum: pro-government trolls outnumber anti-government troll 10 to 1. (Everyone can troll)

"I hope the discussion on 22 April will not see fights between different parties. The talk should be a discussion about the needs of every side, how to help the country move forward, without violence and coups."

Abhisit is good. He's implying that the only trouble-makers expected at the EC meeting will be the PTP government and then, after subtly accusing them of violence, threatens them with a coup if they don't appreciate. "the needs of every side". Whatever side you're on, you have to admit that Abhisit is one smart cookie.

"....threatens them with a coup if they don't appreciate "the needs of every side". Whatever side you're on, you have to admit that Abhisit is one smart cookie."

Where do you see a "threat with a coup"?

IMHO he certainly should be smart enough to know that a coup is not beneficial for Thailand.

It would not solve any of the root causes, only provide a last means of a disposed Clan trying to cling to power by claimimg undemocratic and unfair treatment to win sympathy, and then try stage a comeback in disguise later on. again.

Where do you see a "threat with a coup"?

without violence and coups."

Why would Abhisit even bring up the word 'coup' (as if it were a real possibility) if not to piss off the PTP?

Think our reading of the intent is just different. I just cannot see a threat in his words - i read it as a "pragmatic/realistic" reminder that violence and further escalation can lead to a situation where a hard-liner minority may try to abuse their power, or may feel they have to step in. I do not see this in Thailand's nor Abhisit's interests at all.

Is that pushing their button? Yeah of course it will, after all, it is them who threaten with violence if their own means of abusing power is restricted.

From your response, it is obvious that I was not clear with my message. Here goes second try: without violence and coups."You have noticed there is 'plausible deniability' in Abhisit's references. Here's where they come from. The Democrats say the PTP's weapon of choice is violence and the PTP/UDD says the Democrat's alleged weapon of choice is the coup (judicial or military). Hence Abhisit's contrast of PTP's 'violence' and the Dem's 'coup'. Abhisit didn't even hint at using violence, sorry I was not clear before. Abhisit knows that even the hint of a reminder to the 2006 coup or the possibility of a future coup infuriates Thaksin and his supporters. It is an obvious dig at the PTP and Abhisit knows what effect his comments will have on the government. Terribly Thai, our Abhisit, he has learned to become. passive/aggressive like many Thais. He's taunting to get the other side to lose temper/face first. I'm glad Abhisit is not the 'nice' guy he was before 2010. He has had some hard lessons but he's smart. The opposition may make fun of him but they underestimate him at their peril.

[metisdead]

Another post using a vulgar nickname of former PM Abhisit has been removed.

[Alwyn]

"At this moment many think ... a smooth, problem-free election is an adequate solution," Abhisit Vejjajiva said at a press conference today. "But that is not the truth." I'm betting if he thought he had any chance of winning an election he wouldn't be saying this

[rayw]

I do rather like Abhist personally as I think he seems less corrupt than most and very capable and well educated too, but do not agree with much of his politics as I am very anti right wing and anti-elitist. However that opinion is of no matter at all and no matter how many would agree. What IS important is that we have proper and well run elections here with NO vote buying and other electoral corruptions. New elections needs monitoring by an acceptable outside unbiased and independent source and ANY offenders breaking electoral laws should be heavily prosecuted (jailed in many cases) and banned from politics for life, or a long time at least.

Abhist is IMHO wrong in saying not to support new elections, as only democracy and the free will of the people should ever give power to any Government to run it's nation. So if there is a lot of mistrust of any parties or candidates then simply folk will not vote for them, especially if they are no longer being paid 500 Baht to do so which I know from many Thai folk happens for sure all over the country. Difficult but not impossible to stop but it MUST be stopped if Thailand is to hopefully move forward to better days.

Abhist should then stand by the result of such a properly run fair election and the then elected Government should be left to serve its full term as long as it does not go outside of its manifest proposed policies that it got elected on. The losing parties should then serve honestly in opposition to represent the wishes of those folk that elected them into the Government seats ut of course they will only ever be able just to make their point and try to moderate the incumbent Government. There are already laws here in place to have an offending Government disbanded providing the laid down procedures and requirements are met, and this should prevent corrupt Governments going outside of their manifesto laid down mandate.

[fcbkk]

"....threatens them with a coup if they don't appreciate "the needs of every side". Whatever side you're on, you have to admit that Abhisit is one smart cookie."

Where do you see a "threat with a coup"?

IMHO he certainly should be smart enough to know that a coup is not beneficial for Thailand.

It would not solve any of the root causes, only provide a last means of a disposed Clan trying to cling to power by claimimg undemocratic and unfair treatment to win sympathy, and then try stage a comeback in disguise later on. again.

Where do you see a "threat with a coup"?

without violence and coups."

Why would Abhisit even bring up the word 'coup' (as if it were a real possibility) if not to piss off the PTP?

Think our reading of the intent is just different. I just cannot see a threat in his words - i read it as a "pragmatic/realistic" reminder that violence and further escalation can lead to a situation where a hard-liner minority may try to abuse their power, or may feel they have to step in. I do not see this in Thailand's nor Abhisit's interests at all.

Is that pushing their button? Yeah of course it will, after all, it is them who threaten with violence if their own means of abusing power is restricted.

From your response, it is obvious that I was not clear with my message. Here goes second try: without violence and coups."You have noticed there is 'plausible deniability' in Abhisit's references. Here's where they come from. The Democrats say the PTP's weapon of choice is violence and the PTP/UDD says the Democrat's alleged weapon of choice is the coup (judicial or military). Hence Abhisit's contrast of PTP's 'violence' and the Dem's 'coup'. Abhisit didn't even hint at using violence, sorry I was not clear before. Abhisit knows that even the hint of a reminder to the 2006 coup or the possibility of a future coup infuriates Thaksin and his supporters. It is an obvious dig at the PTP and Abhisit knows what effect his comments will have on the government. Terribly Thai, our Abhisit, he has learned to become. passive/aggressive like many Thais. He's taunting to get the other side to lose temper/face first. I'm glad Abhisit is not the 'nice' guy he was before 2010. He has had some hard lessons but he's smart. The opposition may make fun of him but they underestimate him at their peril.

Sorry for the delay to my response rametindallas, and thanks for your previous post clarifying.

However, i [still] think i did understand, it is just i plainly do not see [nor interpret] Abhisit as threatening with a coup. In your last post you use different wording when you say "hint of a reminder...", and that that is very much what my reading of his words and intent is. Perhaps we both have different use and definiton of the word "threat". Anyhow, seems clear now, done and dusted?

For me, i did prefer Abhisit before he allowed himself to be caught up in the polarisation so much, we have too much of that already. i think he let many down on expectations way too often, but perhaps my expectations were unrealistic. i personally feel he had a chance to be or become one of the most capable politicians the country ever had, but he is now tainted by the events that happened, whether i like it or not (you could say that Thaksin's strategy to remove an opponent has worked by discrediting). In my view he still has another opportunity to show real leadership if he was to define an inclusive policy of reforms for the Dems to propose, then step back, and concentrate on his court case. If he did - he would set a positive example and win back quite some respect, and party and the country would have a better chance to return to a peaceful process, and that should be the only priority (same for Yingluck of course, but that is for another thread.)