US to consider clemency requests from thousands of prisoners

[ClutchClark]

This is a great thing being done by the Obama administration. Sooner would have been better, but it's a step forward. The percentage of Americans, especially minority group Americans, in prison for NON-VIOLENT crimes is a national scandal and source of shame.

It is posts like this when I wish we had the option to give more than one Like!!

Any one who opposes the Obama administration's decision to provide clemency to

Deserving, Non Violent ,drug offender, prisoners, simply does not understand, the situation in the US prison system, where thousands of young man and woman are wasting away, simply because of youthful indiscretions. or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time

Or if they do understand the situation, are suffering from a serious deficit of compassion.

It isn't a lack of compassion. It is skepticism.

Apparently you understand the situation in the US prison system much better than most posters.

Perhaps you could shed light on your experience that provides that understanding.

Then your post and opinion could carry the weight you think it should.

Cheers

[ClutchClark]

Makes one wonder...if color...is the overriding factor in reviewing these cases...

I don't know if color was the overriding factor if the review of these cases but I will tell you this. Color had a lot to do with their sentencing,

Here is an article describing the situation by the very liberal Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

Did you read the article or just the first sentence?

It indicated several failings with the earlier study that resulted in a 5.5% drop in disparity and complaints that more had to be done in the reporting process:

"Jeff Ulmer, a sociology professor at Pennsylvania State University, described the commission's latest report as an improvement but said it was "a long way from proving that [judicial discretion] has caused greater black-white federal sentencing disparity."

And also:

"The commission, which is part of the judicial branch, was careful to avoid the implication of racism among federal judges, acknowledging that they "make sentencing decisions based on many legitimate considerations that are not or cannot be measured."

The article you provided does not really support your argument. It might be worth trying again.

Cheers

[boomerangutang]

people are a fallable species. All of the prisoners' predicaments will be reviewed on a case by case basis. There is no 'all good' and 'all bad' though some come close to the latter, when reviewing the personal history of a hardened criminal - but those types aren't likely to be considered for this new clemency call by the Obama administration.

As mentioned earlier, it's primarily aimed at those who have, in effect, fallen between the cracks and/or shouldn't have such harsh penalty for their crime (if there was a 'real crime' to begin with). One reason the US has so many prisoners, is because it's an effective system at what it does (even if you don't agree with some specs). Particularly in contrast to a 3rd world country like Thailand, where criminals can readily slip by justice, if they're well-heeled or wily enough. As with everything the US justice system does, it's very expensive. $60k/year isn't average (except for NY state) but it is indicative of the ridiculous expense of housing 1 prisoner for one year, and doesn't include legal costs which are usually borne by taxpayers also.

[ClutchClark]

There is a long and arduous process and is not a Federal process. Each state has it's own processes for it.

Although Its great you responded to chuckD's ridiculous assertions, I am wondering if you read the article.

"thousands of federal inmates"...not State.

"The Justice Department said it expects to reassign dozens of lawyers to its understaffed pardons office to handle the requests from inmates."

Cheers

[sirineou]

ClutchClark, on 22 Apr 2014 - 16:50, said:It isn't a lack of compassion. It is skepticism.
Apparently you understand the situation in the US prison system much better than most posters.
Perhaps you could shed light on your experience that provides that understanding.
Then your post and opinion could carry the weight you think it should.

Skepticism of what?

Is there any doubt that there are thousands of drug offenders incarcerated that should not be?

Do you not think that a commission to review these sentences in a case by case bases and provide clemency where appropriate is desirable ?

Makes one wonder...if color...is the overriding factor in reviewing these cases...

I don't know if color was the overriding factor if the review of these cases but I will tell you this. Color had a lot to do with their sentencing,
Here is an article describing the situation by the very liberal Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

Did you read the article or just the first sentence?

It indicated several failings with the earlier study that resulted in a 5.5% drop in disparity and complaints that more had to be done in the reporting process:
"Jeff Ulmer, a sociology professor at Pennsylvania State University, described the commission's latest report as an improvement but said it was "a long way from proving that [judicial discretion] has caused greater black-white federal sentencing disparity."

And also:

"The commission, which is part of the judicial branch, was careful to avoid the implication of racism among federal judges, acknowledging that they "make sentencing decisions based on many legitimate considerations that are not or cannot be measured."

The article you provided does not really support your argument. It might be worth trying again.

Cheers

I read the article, Thank you very much.

"Prison sentences of black men were nearly 20% longer than those of white men for similar crimes in recent years, an analysis by the U.S. Sentencing Commission found.

I provided a link to this article to demonstrate the sentencing disparity between minorities and whites. not to argue over methodology .That racial gap has widened since the Supreme Court restored judicial discretion in sentencing in 2005, according to the Sentencing Commission's findings, which were submitted to Congress last month and released publicly this week."

This is only one of thousands of articles and studies.

A Google search on the subject provided 11,300,000 returns the vast majority of which supports the above position

https://www.google.com/search?q=centencin+descrepancy+between+blacks+and+whites&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS569US569&oq=centencin+descrepancy+between+blacks+and+whites&aqs=chrome..69i57.22641j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Are you in doubt of the validity of the above position ?

Edited April 23, 2014 by sirineou

[hawker9000]

Lots of these sentences for the crimes described are far to severe.

The cost also to the US govt must be heavy. This is probably one of the reasons for this move.

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"Lots". How many is "lots"? Let's see your data for "lots". I expect "lots" of victims don't think their predators' sentences "far too severe". 'Sounds like a well-parroted, recycled talking point to me.

There are also cases where the judge lets a convicted felon off with a ridiculously lenient sentence. The 3 strikes laws were the electorate's attempt to take back some of the judges' discretion, and undo the continued future abuse of that discretion, in doing just that. If you want to blame somebody, blame those judges. You hear about the 3rd strike that sends the guy to jail for life; you never hear about the first two strikes (just like you never hear about how the 3-strikes laws came about in the 1st place).

As for reasons for the move, they're as simple as Obama not being able to run again. We can all look forward to "lots" more running-amok from the Obama gang over the next couple of years.

Edited April 23, 2014 by hawker9000

[Arkady]

Thailand should also consider something similar. Draconian sentences for drug offenders without connections or money to buy their way out, while leaving the king pins untouched, are not doing anything to eradicate drugs and the overcrowding that results creates inhuman conditions in jails.

[lomatopo]

I always found the text of the Thirteenth Amendment to be strange...

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Why even mention punishment if convicted of a crime?

Oh well. it's a good thing Mississippi finally ratified it in 1985, and certified it last year (2013).

Some social commentators have put forth the argument that there are more black Americans under the purview of the judicial system (awaiting trial, jail, prison, probation, parole) today, than were enslaved in 1850.

Thailand should also consider something similar.

Royal pardons, from both the King and Queen, address the situation, somewhat.

Edited April 23, 2014 by lomatopo

[rotary]

Well that's an opinion but not mine nor the majority

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[HerbalEd]

This is a great thing being done by the Obama administration. Sooner would have been better, but it's a step forward. The percentage of Americans, especially minority group Americans, in prison for NON-VIOLENT crimes is a national scandal and source of shame.

Seriously? So only violent criminals should be jailed? Is that what you are saying?

If so that is really a dumb thing to say. Break the law cause at least you won't loose your freedom.

Talk about a broad sweeping over-generalization. No where in the article does it say "only" violent criminals should be jailed. What's being considered is releasing minor drug law offenders who committed no violet related crime. For example: a regular John Doe citizen who was busted for having a small amount of marijuana and sentenced to years in prison.

[HerbalEd]

The imprisonment of minor drug offenders in USA is just plain stupid. Some guy is caught with a little personal-use pot and is throw in jail for years. The tax-payers pay tens-of-thousands of dollars per year to imprison him; he no longer pays taxes; his family is forced on welfare; he's often turned into a real criminal while in prison; and absolutely nothing useful for him or society at large is accomplished. It is so very stupid ... stupid to billions of wasted dollars yearly.

BTW, the commercial prison companies spend millions per year lobbying against marijuana reform laws. They're the only ones who profit ... very big ... from these stupid marijuana laws.

[boomerangutang]

The imprisonment of minor drug offenders in USA is just plain stupid. Some guy is caught with a little personal-use pot and is throw in jail for years. The tax-payers pay tens-of-thousands of dollars per year to imprison him; he no longer pays taxes; his family is forced on welfare; he's often turned into a real criminal while in prison; and absolutely nothing useful for him or society at large is accomplished. It is so very stupid ... stupid to billions of wasted dollars yearly.

BTW, the commercial prison companies spend millions per year lobbying against marijuana reform laws. They're the only ones who profit ... very big ... from these stupid marijuana laws.

I completely agree with all, but your last sentence. Others who profit by keeping pot and other lightweight recreational drugs illegal (and demonized). Everyone involved with the alcohol beverage biz: manufacturers, brewers, bottle makers, corner liquor stores, a million other stores including 7-11's, truckers, dealers. It's no wonder, the booze, beer and wine industries want to maintain their as the ONLY legal one. Politicians benefit also, by getting kickbacks from booze conglomerates.

Others who benefit from alcohol being the only legal rec. drug: drug dealers, or at least the big fish who don't get caught.

Closer to topic: Yes, a significant % of US inmates are criminalized because the booze/beer/wine industries are so chummy with politicians.

[F430murci]

The imprisonment of minor drug offenders in USA is just plain stupid. Some guy is caught with a little personal-use pot and is throw in jail for years. The tax-payers pay tens-of-thousands of dollars per year to imprison him; he no longer pays taxes; his family is forced on welfare; he's often turned into a real criminal while in prison; and absolutely nothing useful for him or society at large is accomplished. It is so very stupid ... stupid to billions of wasted dollars yearly.

BTW, the commercial prison companies spend millions per year lobbying against marijuana reform laws. They're the only ones who profit ... very big ... from these stupid marijuana laws.

The article is about crack and older sentencing guidlines for crack in federal courts that have since been changed. I doubt anyone is going to do any time whatsoever for a little personal use pot unless they are violating probation or parole.

States generally have a presumption of alternative forms of sentencing for non-violent minor felonies which would include pot possession for personal use. You would have to have some really jacked up past to spend any time for minor possession charges for pot.

[Langsuan Man]

As far as I am concerned the fact that FOX News has already claimed that it will lead to lawlessness is a good enough reason for me to support it

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/23/krauthammer-justice-department-clemency-initiative-is-lawlessness/?intcmp=latestnews

[snarky66]

Reminds me of when castro emptied out the prisons. Impeach holder.

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[Credo]

The US is the country with the highest rate of incarceration and this is a plan to review cases of non-violent offenders for clemency and already there are people predicting the end of civilization as we know it.

There will be mass lawlessness and we should impeach holder

All this and nothing, not one case. has been reviewed and not one person released from prison.

[hawker9000]

The US is the country with the highest rate of incarceration and this is a plan to review cases of non-violent offenders for clemency and already there are people predicting the end of civilization as we know it.

There will be mass lawlessness and we should impeach holder

All this and nothing, not one case. has been reviewed and not one person released from prison.

Lol. As if these criminals never received a trial (which includes a sentencing phase in which mitigating factors and criminal history (or lack thereof) are reviewed and considered) in the first place...

I'm sure police depts around the country are just thrilled to death about the prospect of all these convicts being dumped back onto the streets. Holder always was a miserable and very partisan choice for AG. I'm equally sure there'll be a few more thrills & spills out of the DOJ between now and Feb 2017. Keep your whoopy cushions handy.

[sirineou]

The US is the country with the highest rate of incarceration and this is a plan to review cases of non-violent offenders for clemency and already there are people predicting the end of civilization as we know it.

There will be mass lawlessness and we should impeach holder

All this and nothing, not one case. has been reviewed and not one person released from prison.

Lol. As if these criminals never received a trial (which includes a sentencing phase in which mitigating factors and criminal history (or lack thereof) are reviewed and considered) in the first place...

I'm sure police depts around the country are just thrilled to death about the prospect of all these convicts being dumped back onto the streets. Holder always was a miserable and very partisan choice for AG. I'm equally sure there'll be a few more thrills & spills out of the DOJ between now and Feb 2017. Keep your whoopy cushions handy.

Perhaps where you come from , you have a perfect legal system, where the only consideration is a just outcome.

Unfortunately in the world I live in , Politics, and access to proper representation has as much consideration as justice.

[F430murci]

The US is the country with the highest rate of incarceration and this is a plan to review cases of non-violent offenders for clemency and already there are people predicting the end of civilization as we know it.

There will be mass lawlessness and we should impeach holder

All this and nothing, not one case. has been reviewed and not one person released from prison.

Lol. As if these criminals never received a trial (which includes a sentencing phase in which mitigating factors and criminal history (or lack thereof) are reviewed and considered) in the first place...

I'm sure police depts around the country are just thrilled to death about the prospect of all these convicts being dumped back onto the streets. Holder always was a miserable and very partisan choice for AG. I'm equally sure there'll be a few more thrills & spills out of the DOJ between now and Feb 2017. Keep your whoopy cushions handy.

Perhaps where you come from , you have a perfect legal system, where the only consideration is a just outcome.

Unfortunately in the world I live in , Politics, and access to proper representation has as much consideration as justice.

Why does Obama and Holder not propose clemency for white collar securities guys guilty of insider trading. That non violent. Most are first offenders as you cannot get a Series 7 or a Series 66 with a criminal background. These guys, unlike a lot of the crack heads, actual have degrees and are potentially employable. Oh wait, that's a bunch of white guys.

Lets just call it what it is.

RE: Perfect legal system

My first year out of law school. I am clerking for a Judge on the Court of Criminal Appeals. After argument and chambers, the judges take a preliminary vote and assign case for writing the opinion. I broke the cardinal rule as a clerk and spoke. I said something was not just. Legally it made sense. Philosophically, it did not.

One of the smartest Appellate judges I ever met looked at me and said, "son, when you walked in and out that law school every day, what did it say? Did it say school of law or school of justice?"

Perhaps the wisest words ever spoken to me. I don't expect anyone will get it thought, but it is true.

Edited April 26, 2014 by F430murci

[kimbathewhitelion]

There is a history of zero tolerance drug convictions in the US for as little as smoking a single joint of marijuana. According to the Justice department, "The Department of Justice estimates that the amendment would reduce the federal prison population by roughly 6,550 inmates over five years. In 2010, nearly half of 216,000 total federal inmates were serving time for drug-related crimes." Estamates are $45-60k per year to hold a prisoner, 6550 less inmates could be a savings of as much as $393M per year--not to mention the equity of more realstic penalties for recreational use of drugs.

How "Wiki" of you, but in the end, says absolutely nothing.

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[seedy]

Did it say school of law or school of justice?"

Exactly.

And this remains the root cause of the criminal justice systems bias.

If you got the $$$, you walk.

Poor, uneducated, mentally ill, ?? Welcome to the slammer.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Just another day in the life. Only difference is what the media wants to post. And what the sheep will swarm to.

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[sirineou]

The US is the country with the highest rate of incarceration and this is a plan to review cases of non-violent offenders for clemency and already there are people predicting the end of civilization as we know it.

There will be mass lawlessness and we should impeach holder

All this and nothing, not one case. has been reviewed and not one person released from prison.

Lol. As if these criminals never received a trial (which includes a sentencing phase in which mitigating factors and criminal history (or lack thereof) are reviewed and considered) in the first place...

I'm sure police depts around the country are just thrilled to death about the prospect of all these convicts being dumped back onto the streets. Holder always was a miserable and very partisan choice for AG. I'm equally sure there'll be a few more thrills & spills out of the DOJ between now and Feb 2017. Keep your whoopy cushions handy.

Perhaps where you come from , you have a perfect legal system, where the only consideration is a just outcome.

Unfortunately in the world I live in , Politics, and access to proper representation has as much consideration as justice.

Why does Obama and Holder not propose clemency for white collar securities guys guilty of insider trading. That non violent. Most are first offenders as you cannot get a Series 7 or a Series 66 with a criminal background. These guys, unlike a lot of the crack heads, actual have degrees and are potentially employable. Oh wait, that's a bunch of white guys.

Because they did not have to, White collar criminals can afford to purchase clemency, or should I say impunity, in the open market.

Edited April 26, 2014 by sirineou

[seedy]

FOX News

What these - and I use the term loosely - people say can not be termed news.

Propaganda - yes. Hate Speech - Yes. Fear Mongering - Yes.

Running Dog Lackeys for the Bourgeois comes to mind

[kimbathewhitelion]

So many confused here, why not just throw pennies at the wall. Of course the worse uninformed are Europeans & Brits and then middle America...sarcasm comes to mind. Think best to judge your own crap countries. A simple & if possible (excluding Australians as they're forever ignorant) intelligence, should apply for the better of all people.

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[F430murci]

Did it say school of law or school of justice?"

Exactly.

And this remains the root cause of the criminal justice systems bias.

If you got the $$$, you walk.

Poor, uneducated, mentally ill, ?? Welcome to the slammer.

Haha, you illustrate the problem and are apparently too dumb to understand the gist of what I wrote.

[F430murci]

Lol. As if these criminals never received a trial (which includes a sentencing phase in which mitigating factors and criminal history (or lack thereof) are reviewed and considered) in the first place...

I'm sure police depts around the country are just thrilled to death about the prospect of all these convicts being dumped back onto the streets. Holder always was a miserable and very partisan choice for AG. I'm equally sure there'll be a few more thrills & spills out of the DOJ between now and Feb 2017. Keep your whoopy cushions handy.

Perhaps where you come from , you have a perfect legal system, where the only consideration is a just outcome.

Unfortunately in the world I live in , Politics, and access to proper representation has as much consideration as justice.

Why does Obama and Holder not propose clemency for white collar securities guys guilty of insider trading. That non violent. Most are first offenders as you cannot get a Series 7 or a Series 66 with a criminal background. These guys, unlike a lot of the crack heads, actual have degrees and are potentially employable. Oh wait, that's a bunch of white guys.

Because they did not have to, White collar criminals can afford to purchase clemency, or should I say impunity, in the open market.

Nope they are in jail also. So funny how you guys are too ignorant to follow.

Edited April 26, 2014 by F430murci

[seedy]

Haha, you illustrate the problem and are apparently too dumb to understand the gist of what I wrote.

I understand it fine. Many times people on the outside looking in can see much more clearly than the people living on the inside.

[CWMcMurray]

Not a fan of Obamma, but this is a good thing

Check out this interview of Retired Police Captain , this is a really good interview and will likely surprise you and may make you think a bit...

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[kimbathewhitelion]

People need to know "retired" in the US means 'forced' to retire if to keep their pensions.

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