Pak Kom

[Kanga Japan]

In a previous post on April 9 AyG kindly advised the following, regarding ผักขม and ผักโขม:

",,,,both are usually translated into English as "spinach". However, ผักขม specifically refers to Amaranthus spinosus, whilst ผักโขม refers to a range of similar species - most commonly Amaranthus lividus"

Upon further research, I have found the following:

Pak Kom - ผักขม - Amaranthus viridus & Amaranthus spinosus

Pak Kom - ผักโขม - Amaranthus lividus (purple) & Amaranthus viridus (green)

Pak Kom Suan - ผักขมสวน - Amaranthus tricolor

Pak Kom Jin - ผักขมจีน - Amaranthus tricolor

Pak Hom - ผักโหม - Amaranthus viridus

Pak Kom Hat - ผักขมหัด - Amaranthus viridus

Pak Kom Naam - ผักขมหนาม - Amaranthus spinosus

Pak Kom Bai Daeng - ผักขมใบแดง - Amaranthus caudatus

If anyone could clarify these, I would greatly appreciate it.

[kriswillems]

To add to your confusion:

This is spinach: ผักปวยเล้ง

In my opinion ผักขม or ผักโขม is the same thing and it's not spinach.

You can find most answers in this thread:

http://topicstock.pantip.com/food/topicstock/2007/07/D5591888/D5591888.html

Edited April 25, 2014 by kriswillems

[Kanga Japan]

Thanks for trying to make me even more depressed (just joking).

Luckily, I know that one. It's common spinach (the popeye type) apparently.

[kriswillems]

ผ้กโขม and ผักขม is the same thing.

These are not spinach:

ผักโขม - Amaranthus lividus

ผักโขมสวน/ผักโขมสี (อังกฤษ: Red amaranth, Joseph' s coat ) – Amaranthus tricolor L.

ผักโขมหัด (อังกฤษ: Slender amaranth ) – Amaranthus viridis L.

ผักโขมหนาม (อังกฤษ: Spiny amaranth, Spiny pigweed ) – Amaranthus spinosus L.

ผักโขมจีน (อังกฤษ: Chinese Spinach ) – Amaranthus dubius

This is spinach:

ผักโขมฝรั่ง/ปวยเล้ง (อังกฤษ: Spinach/English Spinach) – Spinacia oleracea

It's a completely different family of plants

Although Amaranthus and Spinach are completely different plants, they are mostly interchangeable when it comes to cooking.

PS. 95% of Thai people incorrectly call ผักโขม spinach

Edited April 25, 2014 by kriswillems

[AyG]

PS. 95% of Thai people incorrectly call ผักโขม spinach

Just curious, but what does the 5% that correctly call it say?

Not Amaranth - that's far too broad. It usually means a group of plant types with showy flowers, though some people will know that some species which have edible leaves and others edible seeds that used to be eaten in the past, but now are marketed as a "superfood".

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Kris,

Thank you so much for your information. You have spent a lot of time on it.

As I don't read Thai very well (still a beginner), it will take me a while to go through your information and update (correct) my list. I hope to have it ready by tomorrow or the day after at the latest and will send it to you, to see if it is OK.

Just for your information, attached is my list, based on information I had before I received yours. I was unable to attach it as it was, do I formatted it to PDF. Hope you receive it.

Thanks again.

Pak kom (Thai order)PDF.pdf

[kriswillems]

PS. 95% of Thai people incorrectly call ผักโขม spinach

Just curious, but what does the 5% that correctly call it say?

Not Amaranth - that's far too broad. It usually means a group of plant types with showy flowers, though some people will know that some species which have edible leaves and others edible seeds that used to be eaten in the past, but now are marketed as a "superfood".

I think there's no common English word for ผักโขม

[kriswillems]

Kanga, I don't want to be rude, but if this is a commercial project you're working on you could hire a translator ...

It doesn't matter if you're Thai or farang, we all have to look up this knowledge on the internet.

Nobody just knows all these thing by himself/herself.

[AyG]

Kanga, I don't want to be rude, but if this is a commercial project you're working on you could hire a translator ...

It doesn't matter if you're Thai or farang, we all have to look up this knowledge on the internet.

Nobody just knows all these thing by himself/herself.

Kriswillems, I think you're being a bit hard on Kanga.

He's neither Thai nor farang (he's Japanese).

He wants to create a comprehensive and definitive list of Thai ingredients in Thai, English and Japanese. That's would be a great resource.

He's held back by the fact that his Thai language skills are limited and doesn't have a particularly good knowledge of Thai ingredients.

I have no reason to believe this is anything other than a personal project. I also doubt that any commercial translator would do a more thorough job than he is doing.

At one level I think he's a bit crazy going into such depth, but at another level I really admire such commitment. In fact, it's particularly impressive that he is trying to create a such a resource given that his Thai is limited and English is not his native tongue.

Even in terms of trying to create a resource that definitively links Thai ingredients with their multiple Thai names to their scientific names, I think he's going beyond anything that native Thai speakers have attempted.

I should also add that all I know about Kanga is based upon his postings here. I'm not even sure if he's a he or a she.

I wish him (or her) good luck.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Kriswillems and AyG,

Thank you Kriswillems for the information on Pak Kom and thank you AyG for sticking up for me, although I guess that Kriswillems comments were based on the fact that he considers that I am in a bit over my head here, which may be true.

Actually, I am a female Australian living in Japan (for quite some time) and love Thai food. I studied Thai cooking with a Thai teacher (in Japanese) in Tokyo for about 10 years and when I go back to Australia every year, I always go via Bangkok, for a short visit, because I love Thailand.

There are many Thai restaurants here in Japan and quite a few Japanese businessmen work in Thailand and are often accompanied by their wives.

I have been working for over 6 years on a dictionary (personal project) in English, Thai and Japanese. As I was unable to find any good comprehensive guides relating to Thai food ingredients, I thought that I would try and put together a simple list of basic Thai food ingredients. That's how it started and it has grown from there. I thought that such a resource might be handy and helpful for both people interested in Thai food, as well as any Japanese (and other foreigners) living in Thailand, who have little or no knowledge of the language.

My list is based on the over 90 Thai cooking books which I have and close to 200 internet sites relating to this subject, from which I have picked up information from. Cooking books especially contain many incorrect descriptions relating to Thai vegetables, etc. There is just so much conflicting information.

I am not over confident at all, considering that I cannot read much Thai and realize that people may have the opinion that I am being a bit presumptuous in attempting this project, however it is not like that at all. I have completed the basic list (approximately 4,000 items, including cross-references) and am now at the stage where I am making a final check to clarify any conflicting information. It is not something that I could ask a translator to do. They themselves would have to research various resources, such as I am doing myself. After I have done as much as I can, I will then ask a Thai to check it for me.

I only joined Thai Forum recently and everyone has been so helpful. Actually, I feel embarrassed sometimes, having to ask for people's help and advice, but here in Japan, such information is not readily available. I also realize that I may be including some obscure vegetables in this list, but it will gradually take form. Thai Forum is a great site, but I try not to take too much advantage of it and only post queries when I am really stuck.

Thank you both again for your assistance.

[jamles]

Kanga, Thanks for the detailed clarification. Your dictionary sounds like a very worthwhile project that could be a very valuable resource for many of us. Personally, I've already learned a good bit from your posts and the responses and enjoyed doing a little research on the internet. I hope you can make your dictionary available to the public at some point, commercially or not.

Good luck!

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Jamles,

Thanks so much for your encouragement. I really appreciate it.

I am glad to hear that some of my enquiries have been of assistance to others and appreciate the help from members such as yourself, which you have provided me with.

I know that the members have given their valuable time in checking information on my behalf and sincerely appreciate it - you too.

Thanks again!

[Mole]

I would also advice the same as AyG said in the other eggplant thread, that you should just concentrate on ingredients which are actually used in Thai cuisine, because the name of these are 100% certain.

Many names of obscure foreign stuff may have different names or may be called with a generic Thai name, but by context people will know exactly what kind of vegetable/ingredient we're talking about. But for names of common Thai vegetables and ingredients, the names are pretty solid and there's no ambiguity whatsoever.

There is really no point in obsessively including all kinds of ingredients which in the end is never used in Thai cooking ever.

You may probably know it already, but there's a wikipedia page with pictures as well as names of all the Thai vegetables and ingredients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thai_ingredients

Perhaps you should consider helping updating this wikipedia page?

Instead of making something from scratch, you can help updating that wikipedia page and everybody can have a share in your findings. If some of your edits are wrong, I'm pretty sure it'll be quickly corrected by somebody in there.

If you have some other toughs you'd like to discuss with, you should consider asking your questions in the wikipedia talk page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Thai_ingredients

You'll get better answers from more knowledgeable people.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Mole,

Thank you for your mail.

The problem is, I am including Thai ingredients (vegetables etc.) which appear on the internet and although some of them may be obscure, as I do not live in Thailand, I am not aware of which are the most popular ones.

I thought if I included as many as possible, it may come in handy for non-Thai speaking foreigners who live in Thailand and come across them, wanting to know exactly what they are. Obviously, the really obscure ones don't need to be included, but eventually, I hope that with the help of forum members, this will gradually be reduced.

I am also including the names of some foreign vegetables for non-Thai speaking foreigners (particularly Japanese) who may want to buy these for non-Thai food recipes, but don't know what they are called.

I often use the Thai Ingredients site you mentioned. Thank you for that. It is so handy.

I have never used the Wikipedia talk page and will try it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Also, from now on I will be posting any questions in the Thai Food forum, rather than the Thai Language forum.

Thanks for your help again.

[AyG]

Also, from now on I will be posting any questions in the Thai Food forum, rather than the Thai Language forum.

Please don't. As I've mentioned before, use of Thai language is forbidden here on any forum except the Thai Language one. Without Thai script it's impossible to be sure what someone is referring to in Thai.

I don't think anybody who's posted previously objects to your posting in this forum - it's just some people question your approach and objectives. If these people really don't want to help, they just won't reply. There's not a problem here.