Water Tower

[Issangeorge]

How high should a water tower be to supply a second floor shower. The second Floor is 3.2 metres high and the shower maybe 1.9 metres above the floor. I like good water pressure and it will be going through an electric water heater. Thanks

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 27, 2014 by Issangeorge

[Crossy]

Yup ^^^.

And, since you'll need a pump to get the water up the tower, you might as well feed the shower directly off the pump and save the (not inconsiderable) cost of the tower.

[Issangeorge]

I already have a tower, but it is only about 6 metres high so gives little pressure on the second floor. I have solved this problem with a pump that comes on when you turn on the tap (I don't know what they're called) it works good, but my tank on the tower (very old style plastic tank) has sprung a leak after 10 years. I am going to replace it and thought while doing it I would raise the tank, but it sounds like I would have to raise it 4 times as high as it is now, 24.7m that's 81feet (a very high tank) I can't see doing that. Are you sure it's not 24.7 feet? Anyway I'll stick to the method I am now using. I have a related question, what kind of switch do I need to start the pump that pumps into the tank at say when the tank is 1/4 full and shuts off when it is full? At the present time I use the manual method.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 27, 2014 by Issangeorge

[masuk]

I have no idea about imperial standards. And I never use them. I am quite sure the tank need to be at least 24,7 meters high to have a sufficient water pressure. A tank with a height from 6 meters (from top or bottom?) Gives you an over pressure from between 0,4 and 0,6 bar. That is not a nice shower and I doubt if it gives enough water to switch on your electrical water heater.

In fact I thought that imperial measurements are not accepted anymore to do technical and scientific calculations?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well NASA lost millions of $$ by someone confusing metric and ye olde system, and something never went where it was planned.

Do what all the western world has done with one notable exception, and go metric. Australia did 40 years ago along with many other countries. Thailand and the Philippines are the only two Asian countries I know of who still use inches and feet for clothing, bedding sizes.

BTW: the S.I. (system internationale) uses metres, and meters are for measuring flow, voltage etc.

[Gsxrnz]

I'm not going to dispute the science or mathematics of other posters as i'm sure they're correct, but I used to have a header tank in my roof cavity that supplied water to an electric hot water heating cylinder for the whole house as well as cold water at the shower head. (This meant that if another cold tap was turned on in the house it would not reduce cold pressure at the shower so you wouldn't scold. But if another hot tap was turned on, you'd freeze.)

The tank was probably only 100 litres in capacity. The bottom of the tank was no more than 8 feet (2.4M) higher than the shower outlet, and while it didn't provide a shockingly powerful shower by today's high pressure mains or pump standards, it was certainly more than adequate. In fact this was the standard shower design in my country until the 90's when high pressure mains hot water cylinders took over.

To the OP - it shouldn't be hard to conduct an experiment with a small temporary tank raised to different heights and see what sort of pressure and volume flow you can measure at the outlet height.

[Issangeorge]

I am fine using my inline pump, it supplies very good pressure, I was just thinking if I have to have men working up the tower anyway, if I only had to add another metre or so to it I would, but another 18 metres I don't think so. I don't think I have ever seen a 24 plus metre water tank unless it was a municipalities tank, but certainly not for house. The reason why we use a tank is because when the power goes off we still have water, even if it is a week pressure upstairs, it is strong enough to supply water to the sink and toilet and even the shower, but not strong enough to run a hot shower. In our area in the rainy season the power goes off almost everyday and sometimes for extended periods, so a water tower is a nice convenience.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Issangeorge]

I have no idea about imperial standards. And I never use them. I am quite sure the tank need to be at least 24,7 meters high to have a sufficient water pressure. A tank with a height from 6 meters (from top or bottom?) Gives you an over pressure from between 0,4 and 0,6 bar. That is not a nice shower and I doubt if it gives enough water to switch on your electrical water heater.

In fact I thought that imperial measurements are not accepted anymore to do technical and scientific calculations?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well NASA lost millions of $$ by someone confusing metric and ye olde system, and something never went where it was planned.

Do what all the western world has done with one notable exception, and go metric. Australia did 40 years ago along with many other countries. Thailand and the Philippines are the only two Asian countries I know of who still use inches and feet for clothing, bedding sizes.

BTW: the S.I. (system internationale) uses metres, and meters are for measuring flow, voltage etc.

Google the Gimli Glider, if you want a horror story about mixing measurements.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kaveh]

not just tower height and diameter of tubing, the way you pipe is so important to a good flowing of water

[rotary]

Here is a simple formula if you want to know the pressure in pounds per square inch.

You will have to determine how much pressure you need yourself.

Water weight is 8.33 pounds per gallon

0.052 is a constant

H=Height of the water level above the faucet

8.33 x 0.052 x H=Pressure in PSI

Example: 8.33 x 0.052 x 80 ft= 34.65 psi

A couple of caveats, be sure the ID of the pipe is large enough not cause friction loss & any elbows also cause restriction so keep them to a minimum.

Edited April 27, 2014 by rotary

[RichCor]

[...] I have a related question, what kind of switch do I need to start the pump that pumps into the tank at say when the tank is 1/4 full and shuts off when it is full? At the present time I use the manual method.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's known as a Differential or Bi-Level Vertical Float Valve (switch)

Edited April 27, 2014 by RichCor

[canuckamuck]

Op, are you saying you have a pump between the tank and the house? In this case it hardly matters what the towers height is, you are making your own pressure.

If you don't have a pump, just get one, they are not expensive and you will have all the pressure you need.

Towers are a nuisance.

[Issangeorge]

Yes I do have a pump, but I want the tower so the many times we have a power outage we still have water, although with low pressure.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[masuk]

Op, are you saying you have a pump between the tank and the house? In this case it hardly matters what the towers height is, you are making your own pressure.

If you don't have a pump, just get one, they are not expensive and you will have all the pressure you need.

Towers are a nuisance.

AGREED!

My landlady fitted a 400litre tank connected to the city water and an electric pump. Water enough for a few days if the city water is off for any reason.

Reaches the 2nd floor showers fine, and heaps cheaper than a tower, which needs a pump anyway.

[iang]

The tank floatation switch (to stop flow of water into tank at prescribed level) in Thai is called 'look-loy' .

They come in various forms ranging from cheap float - ball cock switch (like in a toilet cistern) to quite sophisticated & more expensive electronic float switches. All just a case of budget & application, but all types are still called 'look-loy'.

[Issangeorge]

The tank floatation switch (to stop flow of water into tank at prescribed level) in Thai is called 'look-loy' .

They come in various forms ranging from cheap float - ball cock switch (like in a toilet cistern) to quite sophisticated & more expensive electronic float switches. All just a case of budget & application, but all types are still called 'look-loy'.

Thank you.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Indra]

Make it simple.

If the shower is in 2nd floor, install the water tank in 3rd floor.

Then install booster pump before the inlet pipe to the bathroom.

Choose the booster pump, which is activated by water flow, not by the water pressure.

If you choose the water pressure activation, then the pipe will suffer from high pressure all the time.

[Maroon Watcher]

Yep - sometimes its just easy/ier to use trial and error... to get what [flow] you need

I'm not going to dispute the science or mathematics of other posters as i'm sure they're correct, but I used to have a header tank in my roof cavity that supplied water to an electric hot water heating cylinder for the whole house as well as cold water at the shower head. (This meant that if another cold tap was turned on in the house it would not reduce cold pressure at the shower so you wouldn't scold. But if another hot tap was turned on, you'd freeze.)

The tank was probably only 100 litres in capacity. The bottom of the tank was no more than 8 feet (2.4M) higher than the shower outlet, and while it didn't provide a shockingly powerful shower by today's high pressure mains or pump standards, it was certainly more than adequate. In fact this was the standard shower design in my country until the 90's when high pressure mains hot water cylinders took over.

To the OP - it shouldn't be hard to conduct an experiment with a small temporary tank raised to different heights and see what sort of pressure and volume flow you can measure at the outlet height.

[BanTamo]

A large jar and a plastic bowl work pretty well when there's no electricity or mains water. Since we had neither - ever - I got used to it quick. It was pretty cheap too. Have a family member wheel a 55 gal drum of water from the well to replenish the jar though. That part's a bit of a beeyotch.

[Coppernicussing]

Try making it about 6 feet above the floor of your shower. That works.

[jacko45k]

Here is a simple formula if you want to know the pressure in pounds per square inch.

You will have to determine how much pressure you need yourself.

Water weight is 8.33 pounds per gallon

0.052 is a constant

H=Height of the water level above the faucet

8.33 x 0.052 x H=Pressure in PSI

Example: 8.33 x 0.052 x 80 ft= 34.65 psi

A couple of caveats, be sure the ID of the pipe is large enough not cause friction loss & any elbows also cause restriction so keep them to a minimum.

The OP was talking in metric units.........???

[Issangeorge]

Thank you for all your advice. I think I'll stick with my present tower and water flow booster pump, it gives a nice pressure at the shower. However I have one more question, I would like to filter the crud out of the water before it goes into the tank, I'm not looking for a water purification filter, just one that will filter out the bits and pieces, does anybody know how I would ask for it in Thai and should I install it between the pump and tank?

[Crossy]

Sorry, can't help with the Thai, but you should be able to see the single stage filter units in your pump / DIY place, point and shoot

Get one with a polypropylene filter element, it will take out the grit and fairly fine particles but won't clog readily like the finer ones do.

Ours is on the incoming supply before the tank so the tank has cleaned water in it.

Filters on the inlet side of pumps are not advisable, if it clogs the pump will cavitate and may be damaged, if you don't want to filter going to the tank, filter on the outlet side of the pump.

[Strangebrew]

As for cutoff did you think of a float switch once water level reaches certain value closes. IE: toilet tank? Now shower should be high enough to be over your head not thai style where it only reaches pecker. Oh word of advice keep drugs away from shower.

[rotary]

3.281 ft equal 1 meter

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Canada]

water filter-"glong naam"

[Indra]

I think that water filter won't be needed. The crud will stay at the bottom of the tank.

What you have to do just clean up the tank regularly, you can pay someone to do it, it doesn't cost a lot of money.

[ronthai]

get a good pump