What is the 'house book' ?

[davidst01]

My gf is pregnant and we will get married before the birth. Obviously both our names will be on the passport and I intend to fill out the documents at my antipodean consulate to thus allow my child to become an Australian citizen by descent.

I read the post:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/721891-kids-citizenship/?utm_source=newsletter-20140429-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

but still dont understand what the 2 house books are....

In a few months we are intending to rent a house together. Do we have to legally register a house book or how does it work? What about when the child is born. Is there any advice you can give me as I dont fully understand what the house book is for.

thanks

[ubonjoe]

Your soon to be wife already has a house book (tambien ban) for where she is registered. Your child will be listed in that house book when their birth is registered at the Amphoe and a birth certificate is issued.

The topic you posted a link to was about registering a child's birth at a Thai embassy which is not done the same as here.

Registering you child's birth at the Australian embassy is something completely different.

I don't understand the 2 house books you mentioned.

[Mario2008]

A house book belongs to the owner of the house the book is related to. You will need the permission of the house owner to be registered on the household book, reason why many Thai nationals are registered at the house of family, while actually living elsewhere. Your child will probably be registered at the address where the mother is registered.

[MikeandDow]

You will need to fill out form 118 at the OZ embassy you may need to get DNA testing, up to embassy, will need ALL relevant Doc's to be translated into English for the embassy go onto the website will tell you what you need.

[TerryLH]

"My gf is pregnant and we will get married before the birth. Obviously both our names will be on the passport..."

OP, instead of 'passport', do you mean birth certificate?

[davidst01]

Your soon to be wife already has a house book (tambien ban) for where she is registered. Your child will be listed in that house book when their birth is registered at the Amphoe and a birth certificate is issued.

The topic you posted a link to was about registering a child's birth at a Thai embassy which is not done the same as here.

Registering you child's birth at the Australian embassy is something completely different.

I don't understand the 2 house books you mentioned.

Sorry, I mean the blue or yellow house book when I referred to the 2 types.

I still dont understand what this house book is all about to be honest.

If my gf and I move into a rented house prior to the birth do we then start a new house book with the 3 of us listed?

What is the relevance of the house book in the future for our child?

[davidst01]

"My gf is pregnant and we will get married before the birth. Obviously both our names will be on the passport..."

OP, instead of 'passport', do you mean birth certificate?

sorry, yes I mean birth certificate.

[MikeandDow]

Your soon to be wife already has a house book (tambien ban) for where she is registered. Your child will be listed in that house book when their birth is registered at the Amphoe and a birth certificate is issued.

The topic you posted a link to was about registering a child's birth at a Thai embassy which is not done the same as here.

Registering you child's birth at the Australian embassy is something completely different.

I don't understand the 2 house books you mentioned.

Sorry, I mean the blue or yellow house book when I referred to the 2 types.

I still dont understand what this house book is all about to be honest.

If my gf and I move into a rented house prior to the birth do we then start a new house book with the 3 of us listed?

What is the relevance of the house book in the future for our child?

Tabien baan or Thai house book is the official local government issued house or apartment address and resident registration booklet. It is an administrative document issued by the local municipality. The persons having their domicile or legal residence at the house or condo unit are registered in the house book.

Contrary to what is often assumed by foreigners this document has nothing to do with ownership of a house or condo and cannot be used as proof of ownership. It is a booklet issued by the local municipality (not the land department) that belongs to the official papers of a home or condo and its practical use is that it registeres and proves a persons place of legal residence (official domicile). A house book could state the name of the owner but in the case of a foreign non-resident owner not (unless he has official recidency in Thailand).

Thailand has 2 types of house books (with a blue or yellow cover):

• - the blue tabien baan or blue house book (Thor.Ror.14) for Thai nationals, and;
• - the yellow tabien baan or yellow house book (Thor.Ror.13) for foreigners.

As a house book proves a person's domicile it is asked in official registration procedures such as the transfer of ownership of a car or real estate, opening a bank account or when applying for a new electricity or telephone line connection and gives for example Thais the right to vote in a district. As foreigners are usualy not registered in a Thai house book foreigners with a non-immigrant visa can where proof of address is required alternatively show a letter of residence issued by the local immigration office, or when he is the owner a condominium unit title deed in combination with the (empty) blue tabien baan and his passport.

In case of a foreigner owns a house (seperate from the land) or condominium the blue house book is usually empty, unless he has Thai nationals living with him who have their permanent home at this address.

[ubonjoe]

Your soon to be wife already has a house book (tambien ban) for where she is registered. Your child will be listed in that house book when their birth is registered at the Amphoe and a birth certificate is issued.

The topic you posted a link to was about registering a child's birth at a Thai embassy which is not done the same as here.

Registering you child's birth at the Australian embassy is something completely different.

I don't understand the 2 house books you mentioned.

Sorry, I mean the blue or yellow house book when I referred to the 2 types.

I still dont understand what this house book is all about to be honest.

If my gf and I move into a rented house prior to the birth do we then start a new house book with the 3 of us listed?

What is the relevance of the house book in the future for our child?

I think the two house books have been explained to a certain extent by a previous post.

In the blue house book the name of the person whose name is shown on the first page is designated as the head of household and in most cases they will be the owner of the house.

Your soon to be wife is listed in a house book already and will remain there until she becomes a head of household or changes her registry to another household with the permission of the head of household for that residence.

When you rent a house your fiancee will not be able to get a house book for that residence.

As I said before your child will more than likely be registered in same house book as their mother.

[SDM0712]

I'm not sure sure about Australia but in the UK the closest we would have to the Blue (for Thais) and Yellow (for non-Thais) house books ( Tabien Ban) would be a combination of the Voters register and council tax registration, although the yellow book gives foreigners no rights for voting and such like. As Mike says above it is incorrectly assumed by most foreigners that the Tabien Ban relates to ownership, it does not and it is quite possible that people have been caught out by this, but that's a whole other topic.

I think, as has been said, the best way to think about them is proof of address and often requested by banks and the like. Having said that it is annoying the for some things, such as a driving licence the yellow book is not accepted as proof of address and a Certificate is required from immigration to prove this.

SDM

PS Some Thais never update their Tabien Ban and remain listed at their parents house, or wherever they were previously registered. Not really relevant but many rented houses are purely in the owners name. It doesn't really matter in practice but can create problems if a Thai is not registered anywhere.

Edited April 29, 2014 by SDM0712

[MikeandDow]

I'm not sure sure about Australia but in the UK the closest we would have to the Blue (for Thais) and Yellow (for non-Thais) house books ( Tabien Ban) would be a combination of the Voters register and council tax registration, although the yellow book gives foreigners no rights for voting and such like.

I think, as has been said, the best way to think about them is proof of address and often requested by banks and the like. Having said that it is annoying the for some things, such as a driving licence the yellow book is not accepted as proof of address and a Certificate is required from immigration to prove this.

SDM

PS Some Thais never update their Tabien Ban and remain listed at their parents house, or wherever they were previously registered. Not really relevant but many rented houses are purely in the owners name. It doesn't really matter in practice but can create problems if a Thai is not registered anywhere.

incorrect, (Having said that it is annoying the for some things, such as a driving licence the yellow book is not accepted as proof of address and a Certificate is required from immigration to prove this.)

the yellow book is proof of a foreigners address Certificate of Residence is not need if you have a yellow book.

It is false logic to try and compare Thai document to Uk Documents

Edited April 29, 2014 by MikeandDow

[TerryLH]

"...it is annoying the for some things, such as a driving licence the yellow book is not accepted as proof of address and a Certificate is required from immigration to prove this."

For info for forum members, can you tell us where a yellow book is not accepted for proof of address to get a DL?

In KK you can use the letter from immigration, a letter from your embassy, a yellow book or a work permit. Probably others as well.

OP

Ask your gf about her house registration. She should be able to explain it, and might even be able to show you a copy of one.

Edited April 29, 2014 by TerryLH

[SDM0712]

Mike

If you are saying that the Driving Licence centre would accept my Yellow Book in place of a Certificate of Residence from Immigration I would love you to come to the Phuket Driving Centre with me and explain this to this staff there. I had quite a lengthy conversation on this exact point with one of my Thai staff acting as interpreter when I renewed my licence to be told that I needed the certificate. I agree with you, but sadly to no avail. Having said that how many times have we been given incorrect information by staff in these type of departments. But let's keep in touch and in five years you can come down with me, all expenses paid!

My comparison, although not completely accurate, give a very good sense of what the Tabien ban is, which is the question posed in the OP. I have given my answer in laymen's terms rather than a legal definition.

SDM

[ubonjoe]

Here in Ubon the drivers license office gives you a form to be signed by immigration (or the tourist police according one post I recall). Immigration here will not give you a residence certificate for a driver license because of this local policy.

[SDM0712]

Here in Ubon the drivers license office gives you a form to be signed by immigration (or the tourist police according one post I recall). Immigration here will not give you a residence certificate for a driver license because of this local policy.

They won't accept the Yellow Book either ?

SDM

[scorecard]

On a broader but more basic explanation, in most situations Thai citizens have to prove their personal identity and they also have to prove their official address.

Proving your identity is in 99.9% of cases is required by law to be by showing your Thai ID card or Thai Passport.

Proving your official address in 99.9% of cases is required by law to be by showing your Tabien Baan book (household registration book).

Note, for Australians proving your official address is not generally how the 'system' works, you simply write your address on various documents but with no official proof that it's your address.

As already mentioned, the 'master' of the house (normally meaning owner) is the holder of the Tabien Baan book for that house or residence. And that person can indicate who can or cannot be recorded on the Tabien Baan book for that house.

There are several types of Tabien Baan books for different circumstances. e.g. house, condo, etc.

However it's also common and accepted that many Thai folks are registered on the Tabien Baan book for the address (house) of say their parents but in reality they are actually living in another location.

Foreigners who are in Thailand on say a short-term tourist visa cannot be registered on a family Tabien Baan book but in some circumstances if they are married to a Thai person then they can be registered on a family Tabien Bann book.

When babies come into the world, in Thailand, their birth is recorded and they are officially put onto a Tabien Baan book.

[ubonjoe]

Here in Ubon the drivers license office gives you a form to be signed by immigration (or the tourist police according one post I recall). Immigration here will not give you a residence certificate for a driver license because of this local policy.

They won't accept the Yellow Book either ?

SDM

They will not.

[SDM0712]

.................................... but in some circumstances if they are married to a Thai person then they can be registered on a family Tabien Bann book.............

As far as I know a Foreigner can never go into a Blue Tabian Ban that the Thai members of the family are in. If we can be registered on a Tabian Ban we get a seperate yellow book. I do remember reading a poster here said that he was on the Blue Book but when I mentioned this to a chap in our local Kathu Taisaban that I would like to go into the Blue book he laughed for an extended period and when he saw that it wasn't a joke just said " no".

SDM

[MikeandDow]

On a broader but more basic explanation, in most situations Thai citizens have to prove their personal identity and they also have to prove their official address.

Proving your identity is in 99.9% of cases is required by law to be by showing your Thai ID card or Thai Passport.

Proving your official address in 99.9% of cases is required by law to be by showing your Tabien Baan book (household registration book).

Note, for Australians proving your official address is not generally how the 'system' works, you simply write your address on various documents but with no official proof that it's your address.

As already mentioned, the 'master' of the house (normally meaning owner) is the holder of the Tabien Baan book for that house or residence. And that person can indicate who can or cannot be recorded on the Tabien Baan book for that house.

There are several types of Tabien Baan books for different circumstances. e.g. house, condo, etc.

However it's also common and accepted that many Thai folks are registered on the Tabien Baan book for the address (house) of say their parents but in reality they are actually living in another location.

Foreigners who are in Thailand on say a short-term tourist visa cannot be registered on a family Tabien Baan book but in some circumstances if they are married to a Thai person then they can be registered on a family Tabien Bann book.

When babies come into the world, in Thailand, their birth is recorded and they are officially put onto a Tabien Baan book.

Foreigners who are in Thailand on say a short-term tourist visa cannot be registered on a family Tabien Baan book but in some circumstances if they are married to a Thai person then they can be registered on a family Tabien Bann book

. Please explain the circumstance that a Foreigners are put on a blue book because a foreigner are not allowed to be on the blue book ( the only 1 reason is if its a condo ) has nothing to do if you are married or not, and certainly nothing to do with a Thai family blue house book.

there are only 2 house books yellow and blue

Edited April 29, 2014 by MikeandDow

[SDM0712]

...................................................... Having said that it is annoying the for some things, such as a driving licence the yellow book is not accepted as proof of address and a Certificate is required from immigration to prove this.

SDM

incorrect

Mike, as confirmed by Joe, it does seem to be the case in at least one other location. But, I agree with you. It annoys me because of course I have to pay a " fee" for the Certificate for Residency (or whatever it's called) and have a photo taken, usually also at Immigration. Also because I need two licences I need two original certificates and two sets of photos. I would far prefer to give them the yellow book I already have and pay nothing more.

Regards

SDM

PS - What is it we say ? "TIT" !

[samran]

On a broader but more basic explanation, in most situations Thai citizens have to prove their personal identity and they also have to prove their official address.

Proving your identity is in 99.9% of cases is required by law to be by showing your Thai ID card or Thai Passport.

Proving your official address in 99.9% of cases is required by law to be by showing your Tabien Baan book (household registration book).

Note, for Australians proving your official address is not generally how the 'system' works, you simply write your address on various documents but with no official proof that it's your address.

As already mentioned, the 'master' of the house (normally meaning owner) is the holder of the Tabien Baan book for that house or residence. And that person can indicate who can or cannot be recorded on the Tabien Baan book for that house.

There are several types of Tabien Baan books for different circumstances. e.g. house, condo, etc.

However it's also common and accepted that many Thai folks are registered on the Tabien Baan book for the address (house) of say their parents but in reality they are actually living in another location.

Foreigners who are in Thailand on say a short-term tourist visa cannot be registered on a family Tabien Baan book but in some circumstances if they are married to a Thai person then they can be registered on a family Tabien Bann book.

When babies come into the world, in Thailand, their birth is recorded and they are officially put onto a Tabien Baan book.

Foreigners who are in Thailand on say a short-term tourist visa cannot be registered on a family Tabien Baan book but in some circumstances if they are married to a Thai person then they can be registered on a family Tabien Bann book

. Please explain the circumstance that a Foreigners are put on a blue book because a foreigner are not allowed to be on the blue book ( the only 1 reason is if its a condo ) has nothing to do if you are married or not, and certainly nothing to do with a Thai family blue house book

Only if they have PR can a foreigner get on the blue book.

[SDM0712]

PR ? Public Representation ?

[TerryLH]

"Foreigners who are in Thailand on say a short-term tourist visa cannot be registered on a family Tabien Baan book but in some circumstances if they are married to a Thai person then they can be registered on a family Tabien Bann book."

Foreigners with children are listed as the father or mother of the child(ren), but that is not the same as what we are talking about here.

Some foreigners have been mistakenly registered in a blue book. I think that's rare, though.

Being married gives you no special reason to be in a blue book.

[samran]

PR ? Public Representation ?

Permanent resident

[SDM0712]

PR ? Public Representation ?

Permanent resident

Thank you.

As a side issue I have been looking into PR (as I now know I it) and the cost is 90,000 plus the ability to pass a written test in Thai and attend an interview, also in Thai, Siam Legal also wanted 90,000 to deal with it on top of that, if indeed a lawyer is even necessary.

Regards

SDM

[mahjongguy]

There are two sections to a house book. The first page lists the house master, the person with the legal right to determine who can live in the house. In a blue book, that is the Thai owner. In my case, since I have a 30-year lease, the owner's name is followed by my name (in fake Thai), as I am the house master for the duration of the lease.

All the rest of the pages list the names of Thais who claim the house as their official residence.

I cannot say that I am "in the blue book" because it doesn't show me as living there. I cannot use this document to get a driver's license or buy/sell a vehicle.

Because I am a house master but not a Thai, I am entitled to get a yellow book which would show me as an occupant. It would be handy but I can live without it just by getting letters from Immigration, so I haven't bothered complying with the strict requirements of the Pattaya amphur for a yellow book. Too much effort to get official translations and such.

Edited April 29, 2014 by mahjongguy