Leaseholds Only As Strong As Your Marriage

[thaigene2]

Think it's worth debating the reality of Leaseholds and Usufructs here.

While legally they provide you with a piece of paper that says your wife can't sell the property once the freehold is in her hot little hand, and that you have a right to live there as long as you want (or 30 years, etc), think about the reality for a minute.

We are foreigners here and whether legally married with children born here (both true for me), we have absolutely no preferential rights regarding residence in Thailand. If you are working, and you lose your job you must leave the Kingdom within 7 days (think it's 7) - they don't care whether you have a wife and kids here or not. The 'O' visa aside for the moment, having a family here does not justify YOUR right to live here.

So fine. You buy a house in your wife's name, then get her to sign a leasehold that allows you to live there and prevent her from selling it during that time. But what if the marriage goes south? Then what? If you have kids, she's probably going to retain custody and keep the house - as opposed to selling it and splitting the proceeds as in often the case in the West.

So now you have a lease that allows you to live there..but now you don't want to anymore..you'd rather she left, but sorry pal it's HER house. Maybe her brothers also 'suggest' you move on..and remember if you lose your job, you'll need to leave the country. She could then oppose you retruning on an 'O' visa (the one that says you earn such-and-such money from oversees and need to support your family). Now she has the house, you're out of the country, and pretty much out of the picture. You could return on tourist visas of course...but you can see that it's now a losing battle.

Sorry to be so gloomy..but it's important to consider the flip side of the legal arguments regarding leaseholds.

IMHO..Don't buy rent. Wait until the dust settles. Let's see if Holt is right and the Government finally decides to let foreigners with familes here register one-rai in joint names with their Thai wives. It's worth the wait I reckon.

Best of luck whatever you do..

[lopburi3]

The above (7 days to leave bit) is only true if you extended your stay on the basis of your employment. If you have a wife one would expect you to extend on the basis of "support Thai wife" and loss of job will not result in you having 7 days to get out of Dodge City in that case.

[thaigene2]

..Also..I think the same reasoning from the initial post supports why the banks make it difficult to buy a house with a mortage in your Thai wife's name..(with the farang as guarantor) - the bank is afraid if the marriage goes south, the farang will leave the country and thus no way to collect the mortgage payments.

I've been told that car dealers apply the same principal. The gurantor must be Thais (I was told this was a BOT regulation) - though others have managed to get loans without them.

Again, IMO, and as others have said, it's a case of 'we want your money - but not you'.

[Heng]

Money wants to be free.

[Dragonman]

Of course there are always means to make someone do something by threats or blackmail. However I have always found that if you follow the correct legal steps the chances of failure are much less. Only among very wealthy or powerful Thais is the legal playing field not level.

I was quite readily offered a mortgage by Bangkok Bank on the basis of me being guarantor. Simply required 3 months bank statements and my Company Pension Statement.

[BKK90210]

Just some thought

If a farang husband doesn't trust his wife when it comes to owning the title. He's so afraid the marriage might go south sometime in the future, or something might happen to him after the transfered....like premature death.

My question is.....

Can he buy the property anyway but give the title (chanote) to the land office or favorite thai charity, and lease it back from them for 30 yrs? He would be able to use the property for the next 30 yrs, and after his death, then the property will be belong to the government or his favorite charity?

The reason I'm asking this is because....

My wife's family had done it

Her father had a piece of land (a few rais) in BKK, which he bought and donated the chanote to Ampur Bangkapi to be used as a park after his death, but while he's still alive he wants to use it as his private fish pond first. The district said ok and recorded the use as that. So upon his death(many decades later)...the district then converted the fish pond area to become a park for the neighbourhood to enjoy until this day.

Edited June 11, 2006 by BKK90210

[Dragonman]

Just some thought

If a farang husband doesn't trust his wife when it comes to owning the title. He's so afraid the marriage might go south sometime in the future, or something might happen to him after the transfered....like premature death.

My question is.....

Can he buy the property anyway but give the title (chanote) to the land office or favorite thai charity, and lease it back from them for 30 yrs? He would be able to use the property for the next 30 yrs, and after his death, then the property will be belong to the government or his favorite charity?

The reason I'm asking this is because....

My wife's family had done it

Her father had a piece of land (a few rais) in BKK, which he bought and donated the chanote to Ampur Bangkapi to be used as a park after his death, but while he's still alive he wants to use it as his private fish pond first. The district said ok and recorded the use as that. So upon his death(many decades later)...the district then converted the fish pond area to become a park for the neighbourhood to enjoy until this day.

OK for the example in question, although I'd suggest a usufruct, not a lease. However my missus would go mad if I left it to Amphur, and not her and her family. The thing is at the time the lease/usufruct was registered you'd probably be on good terms.

[BKK90210]

Yes, I think it was a usufruct and it was registered on the same day of the transfered from the seller.